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We see two Walt birthdays, one in season 1 and another in season 5. So its a year and some change.
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Apr 5, 2015 18:10
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notthegoatseguy posted:We see two Walt birthdays, one in season 1 and another in season 5. So its a year and some change. Indeed, but they don't cook continuously together through that year.
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Apr 5, 2015 18:14
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Ravel posted:I find the claim that Jesse was like a substitute son to Walt a bit too strong. They cooked together for less than a year total probably. Obviously to the viewer they seem close and there's obvious paternal overtones but that's because we go through less than a year in fifty episodes. Jesse was absolutely a substitute son to Walt. They pretty much explicitly state this and we see direct parallels to Walt's treatment of his son and his treatment of Jesse. If your argument is that it isn't realistic due to the time frame then I'm just going to say "of course it isn't, it is television."
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Apr 5, 2015 18:42
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I always saw it more as Walt being Jesse's surrogate father than Jesse being Walt's surrogate son.
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Apr 5, 2015 18:42
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Jesse is like a surrogate son to Walt for a time and in some ways, but Walt is also a terrible selfish person who interacts with his family by misleading, browbeating and manipulating them. He definitely has those feelings towards Jesse, I think - they just don't manifest in a healthy way. Instead, his attachment to Jesse is possessive and toxic.
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Apr 5, 2015 19:07
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ImpAtom posted:Jesse was absolutely a substitute son to Walt. They pretty much explicitly state this and we see direct parallels to Walt's treatment of his son and his treatment of Jesse. If your argument is that it isn't realistic due to the time frame then I'm just going to say "of course it isn't, it is television." I remember Walt calling him family, but he also calls Hank family and when it comes down to it, he's devastated by losing Hank and he orders Jesse's execution immediately afterwards. He's willing to turn himself in rather than kill Hank and it's likely he was planning on killing Jesse himself right up until he sees the circumstances that Jesse is in. I don't think the show tries too hard to establish this surrogacy with Jesse though it does flirt with the idea because that's a compelling part of the narrative. When it comes down to it though, within the show, I don't think Walt feels as strongly attached to Jesse as viewers sometimes romanticise.
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Apr 5, 2015 19:19
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notthegoatseguy posted:Also some of the PTSD scenes that annoyed me in previous watches are really working for me now. I really didn't like those because they felt like a cheap way to make you feel for Hank, who at that point in the series was an unlikable racist rear end in a top hat. And I totally get the idea, like, Hank thinks he's some badass because all he ever deals with are clowns like Jesse, and then he gets to Mexico and the cartel puts the fear of God in him, but I remember it just not being executed very well. So, maybe the reason they're working for you now is that you already know Hank turns out to be a sympathetic character? I remember the first half of Season 2 had a lot of "cheap" character moments like that, where people started doing things that didn't gel with their established characters for the sake of drama. Marie's shoplifting, Skyler's smoking while pregnant, and Hank's PTSD are three examples I can think of.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:26
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Ravel posted:I find the claim that Jesse was like a substitute son to Walt a bit too strong. They cooked together for less than a year total probably. Obviously to the viewer they seem close and there's obvious paternal overtones but that's because we go through less than a year in fifty episodes. I think the things we see on TV are more important than the timeline.
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Apr 6, 2015 02:50
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DStecks posted:I really didn't like those because they felt like a cheap way to make you feel for Hank, who at that point in the series was an unlikable racist rear end in a top hat. And I totally get the idea, like, Hank thinks he's some badass because all he ever deals with are clowns like Jesse, and then he gets to Mexico and the cartel puts the fear of God in him, but I remember it just not being executed very well. So, maybe the reason they're working for you now is that you already know Hank turns out to be a sympathetic character? I remember the first half of Season 2 had a lot of "cheap" character moments like that, where people started doing things that didn't gel with their established characters for the sake of drama. Marie's shoplifting, Skyler's smoking while pregnant, and Hank's PTSD are three examples I can think of. I don't know, I thought all three of those things made sense within their respective characters.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:22
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Actually Walt has a PTSD episode in S02E01 due to flashbacks of how Tuco murdered his associate. Hank is still kind of an rear end in a top hat this early on but you start to see him coming into the character he'll become. EDIT: God drat. I mean the Tuco shootout isn't exactly bad policework but Hank's official report to his ASAC is completely coming out of his rear end rather than reality. notthegoatseguy fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Apr 6, 2015 |
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Apr 6, 2015 03:30
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notthegoatseguy posted:Actually Walt has a PTSD episode in S02E01 due to flashbacks of how Tuco murdered his associate. Hank is still kind of an rear end in a top hat this early on but you start to see him coming into the character he'll become. Wait, Hank lied to the ASAC about the Tuco shootout? Why would he have reason to do that?
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Apr 6, 2015 15:25
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Ravel posted:I don't think Walt feels as strongly attached to Jesse as viewers sometimes romanticise. Walt is absolutely absurdly attached to Jesse. Half of the really truly horrible poo poo Walt does is to maintain his hold on Jesse and when Jesse betrays him he reacts absurdly badly. He arguably treats Jesse more openly and honestly than his actual son. If Walt wasn't strongly attached to Jesse then they would have gone their separate ways on the many chances they had to before Walt drags him back in. This is partially and unarguably because Walt considers Jesse 'his' but that is how Walt treats everything important to him. It's a central part of his character.
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Apr 6, 2015 15:34
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Last Chance posted:Wait, Hank lied to the ASAC about the Tuco shootout? Why would he have reason to do that? Because telling the DEA "I found Tuco when I abused my power to get them to track down my brother-in-law's pot dealer, since I thought it would lead me to Walt" wouldn't go over well.
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Apr 6, 2015 16:02
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joepinetree posted:Because telling the DEA "I found Tuco when I abused my power to get them to track down my brother-in-law's pot dealer, since I thought it would lead me to Walt" wouldn't go over well. He also says he identified himself and ordered Tuco to surrender. Neither of which happened.
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Apr 6, 2015 16:11
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But that's what Hank essentially told them (leaving out the pot part). He told them honestly, he was looking for his brother-in-law who was in poor health and Pinkman, an old student/acquaintance and that's how he found Tuco.
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Apr 6, 2015 16:11
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My wife and I finally watched this show, after several recommendations from friends and family. We just finished it on Saturday. If there was an emote that was a giant  made out of a bunch of s then I think that would accurately describe how we felt after all that.I find it very telling of Walt's character that every one of his closest family members seriously told him he should just die. Even Holly's unscripted "Mama" really got me.
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Apr 6, 2015 17:16
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Like notthegoatseguy said, he says he identified himself to Tuco, asked him to surrender, etc. It's not a horrible lie and Tuco did just open fire on him first, he's basically just covering himself and saying he followed police procedure to the letter just in case IA or someone tries to get him in trouble for an unnecessary shooting. I thought it was a nice and realistic touch.
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Apr 6, 2015 17:35
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Tender Bender posted:Like notthegoatseguy said, he says he identified himself to Tuco, asked him to surrender, etc. It's not a horrible lie and Tuco did just open fire on him first, he's basically just covering himself and saying he followed police procedure to the letter just in case IA or someone tries to get him in trouble for an unnecessary shooting. I thought it was a nice and realistic touch. pretty much anyone else would have done the same thing.
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Apr 7, 2015 01:21
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Austrian mook posted:pretty much anyone else would have done the same thing. Wouldn't surprise me if it was downright encouraged (indirectly, at least) by superiors in most departments. "So, Smith, you pulled up and identified yourself before the suspect started shooting? Great, lets get that written down"
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Apr 22, 2015 13:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY5pxc__UJE
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Jun 24, 2015 22:00
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hermand posted:Wouldn't surprise me if it was downright encouraged (indirectly, at least) by superiors in most departments. "So, Smith, you pulled up and identified yourself before the suspect started shooting? Great, lets get that written down" This is kind of a derail, but I think the only thing that needs to be said here is that we now have a lot of cell phone footage showing cops doing stuff that they aren't supposed to be doing. It seems pretty obvious that there is an institutional problem with cruddy cops lying in their reports, and lying to protect their cruddy cop buddies. And I suppose it then follows, logically, that an unknown number of American cops have lied, under oath, in court  Anyway, back on topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLEfrulUEcs
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Jul 11, 2015 03:50
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I started re-watching Breaking Bad at season 3. I just got to season 5. This is a good show.
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Aug 23, 2015 07:22
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Just finished the show after somewhat of a marathon. Gotta admit i rushed the later seasons a bit, partly because i found them not so great - s4 in particular here. Felt that interactions and character development was kind of forced in weird ways at times, though some of the times it made sense - like how Walt and Jesse basically swapped places in their respective relationships with Gus (the whole "out of respect from this man i'm not gonna hurt/kill you" basically happens with both, etc). Season 5 actually kinda managed to pick it off again and turned out great, i was pretty disappointed in how seamless Walter's "revolution" happened - how he left the system and just started to go full happy-retirement mode. Switch seems too sudden, but the way that everything catches up to him afterwards kind of makes up for it i guess. Also ending was p good. uaciaut fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Aug 23, 2015 20:27
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Just finished a rewatch and man that scene where Jesse tries to escape the neo-Nazi compound and then Andrea gets killed is such bad writing. He loving already knew that they were being used as leverage, but the writers had him try to escape anyway just so another bad thing could happen to him. Which by the way is hosed up since Andrea getting robbed of her agency and just being A Bad Thing That Happened to Jesse is comic book women in refrigerators poo poo that Breaking Bad is normally leagues beyond. At least it wasn't a torture machine, I guess.
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Aug 29, 2015 23:58
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Just finished a rewatch and man that scene where Jesse tries to escape the neo-Nazi compound and then Andrea gets killed is such bad writing. He loving already knew that they were being used as leverage, but the writers had him try to escape anyway just so another bad thing could happen to him. Which by the way is hosed up since Andrea getting robbed of her agency and just being A Bad Thing That Happened to Jesse is comic book women in refrigerators poo poo that Breaking Bad is normally leagues beyond. Well... Jesse didn't think he would screw up and therefore he'd be able to help them. He was wrong but the other choice he had is "live as a slave for the rest of his life."] That isn't bad writing. That is a character making a decision in a bad situation that turned out to be for the worst.
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Aug 30, 2015 00:19
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ImpAtom posted:Well... Jesse didn't think he would screw up and therefore he'd be able to help them. He was wrong but the other choice he had is "live as a slave for the rest of his life."] Name one other time Jesse willingly risked the lives of the people he loves.
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Aug 30, 2015 00:27
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Counterpoint: When he gets caught he goes "May as well just kill me now since I'm not gonna cook for you psycho fucks" instead of "Oh god don't kill them do whatever you want to me just don't kill them." Yes, the latter certainly sounds a lot more like Jesse, especially late-season Jesse who was a burning car wreck who made tons of bad decisions. SpiderHyphenMan posted:Name one other time Jesse willingly risked the lives of the people he loves. Risked lives? Depends on what you mean. He never had a real position to 'risk lives of people he loved.' He did however blackmail his parents, help his girlfriend get back into drugs and when we are introduced to him he is doing a poor job of running an illegal drug ring. He is not exactly a great planner who thinks of all consequences. "Jesse was in a bad situation and made a bad decision because he didn't really have a good one" is not bad writing.
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Aug 30, 2015 00:33
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ImpAtom posted:Yes, the latter certainly sounds a lot more like Jesse, especially late-season Jesse who was a burning car wreck who made tons of bad decisions. And while I'm at it even after watching Felina for the 3rd time I still refuse to believe Walt honestly thought Jack had partnered with Jesse and wasn't just playing Jack to ensure he'd be able to free Jesse before the cops showed up. Edit: And if you cut out the failed escape/Andrea scene it's not like you actually lose anything of plot importance. It's not like it comes up in Felina. Really it feels like they just wanted Jesse to have something to do between being enslaved and getting rescued by Walt.
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Aug 30, 2015 02:21
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Dude come on look at the way he looks at that picture of Andrea and Brock in Ozymandias. He knows the stakes. That's not bad decision making, that's either A. Making a bluff that Jesse would never make (Even if you kill Andrea and leave Brock I won't cook for you) or B. Entirely forgetting about their leverage over him, which is the reason his situation is so dire to begin with. Why is it so unbelievable to Walt that Jesse and Jack partnered up? In Walt's mind, Jesse offered to cook for Jack in exchange for sparing him. Not completely out of the realm of possibility. Jesse obviously didn't want to and they had to chain him up, but Walt couldn't know that for sure. And Walt heard the meth was better than ever, so he didn't have a reason to think that Jesse wasn't being treated well. In his mind, Jesse was making the best meth in the south west again for a decent price, probably what he would have done in Jesse's shoes.
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Aug 30, 2015 04:21
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Last Chance posted:Why is it so unbelievable to Walt that Jesse and Jack partnered up? In Walt's mind, Jesse offered to cook for Jack in exchange for sparing him. Not completely out of the realm of possibility. I refuse to believe that a Walter White who was capable of realizing and admitting that he did it all for him would think for two seconds that Jesse would willingly partner with 1. Nazis and 2. A child murderer. And don't tell me Walt didn't know Todd was involved with the meth cooking because he talked to Todd AND Lydia at the diner in Felina. Edit: Also the bolded parts of your post contradict each other, unless you think that Walt would think Hostage Meth Partner still sounds like a pretty sweet deal. SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Aug 30, 2015 |
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Aug 30, 2015 04:32
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Last Chance posted:Why is it so unbelievable to Walt that Jesse and Jack partnered up? In Walt's mind, Jesse offered to cook for Jack in exchange for sparing him. Not completely out of the realm of possibility. There's also the possibility that Walt knew about Jesse and just didn't care. He was using him as a means to manipulate Jack and buy himself time to get ahold of his keys. If they hadn't been about to drag him out back it's possible he wouldnt have brought up Jesse at all and simply activated the gun, killing everyone.
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Aug 30, 2015 04:39
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I refuse to believe that a Walter White who was capable of realizing and admitting that he did it all for him would think for two seconds that Jesse would willingly partner with 1. Nazis and 2. A child murderer. Ehh, it's hard to tell what Walt is thinking/planning, but it just doesn't seem far fetched to me that Walt, the guy who belittled and underestimated Jesse throughout the entire show, would think he partnered up with Jack to save his own (and Andrea/Brock's) skin. Maybe he thought that the "partnership" was closer to servitude of some kind, but didn't picture it being so horrible for Jesse. It would be cool if Walt had came to save Jesse, but I think that makes it a little too convenient that Jack brought him out for Walt to see. Walt didn't have that much control over the situation.
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Aug 30, 2015 04:47
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Great Beer posted:There's also the possibility that Walt knew about Jesse and just didn't care. He was using him as a means to manipulate Jack and buy himself time to get ahold of his keys. If they hadn't been about to drag him out back it's possible he wouldnt have brought up Jesse at all and simply activated the gun, killing everyone. Yeah that also makes sense. It's been a while since I've seen Felina, but I do remember that Walt mentioning Jesse seemed like a play to buy him some more time to get the keys and activate the gun.
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Aug 30, 2015 04:50
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Last Chance posted:It would be cool if Walt had came to save Jesse, but I think that makes it a little too convenient that Jack brought him out for Walt to see. Walt didn't have that much control over the situation. Like kinda the whole point of Felina is that everything goes Walt's way
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Aug 30, 2015 04:51
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:The fact that Walt's plan of "kill them all with a robot machine gun" succeeded at all is pretty convenient. Yeah I can see that. Although it felt like everything went Walt's way throughout almost the entire run of the show. Jesse even breaks down to Hank about how lucky Walt is. Up until Ozymandias, that is. Man, remembering that machine gun firing and Walt just shooting Jack before he can finish talking about never finding the money. Awesome. That was a great finale...
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Aug 30, 2015 04:57
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Yeah I loved that bit with Jack. Jack killed Hank mid sentence and Walt did it right back. I think it was deliberate on his part as a way to get vengeance for his brother in law. To me it showed Hank's death still weighed on Walt.
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Aug 30, 2015 05:07
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I refuse to believe that a Walter White who was capable of realizing and admitting that he did it all for him would think for two seconds that Jesse would willingly partner with 1. Nazis and 2. A child murderer. If Walt doesn't actually hate Jessie, he constantly looks down on him and belittles him. So yes, Walt thinking Jack and Jessie are partners is perfectly within Walt's character because to Walt, Jessie is an idiot.
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Aug 31, 2015 02:00
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"To Walt."
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Aug 31, 2015 07:55
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Last Chance posted:Why is it so unbelievable to Walt that Jesse and Jack partnered up? In Walt's mind, Jesse offered to cook for Jack in exchange for sparing him. Not completely out of the realm of possibility. 1. Jesse was almost made a meth cook slave by Tuco. 2. Jesse was almost made a meth cook slave by the cartels. 3. Jesse was made a meth cook slave by Gus. 4. Jesse hated Tod. There is no way Walt thought Jesse had willingly partnered with the Nazis.
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Sep 1, 2015 00:28
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Blind Melon posted:1. Jesse was almost made a meth cook slave by Tuco. I agree, Vince came out and said though that Walt thought Jesse was working with the Nazi's willingly, didn't ever click with me.
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Sep 1, 2015 00:39
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