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Hi, poopsocker here. Loved the show, but... How can anyone actually believe Walt is doing what he's doing for any reason other than pride after he turns down 1. A well-paying job where he'd actually be respected and 2. Full payment for his chemo treatment for no reason other than "I loving hate those guys and won't take their charity" even though both Elliot and Gretchen were shown to be super nice and awesome (Elliot genuinely appreciating Walt's gift of Ramen after getting a thousand dollar guitar comes to mind)? I get he had personal issues with them given his history with Gretchen and how that turned out but how the hell can you possibly justify choosing cooking meth over being a goddamned adult about things that happened 20+ years ago? And for that matter, how the hell did Walt end up teaching loving high school? Why doesn't he teach at a university or work at a lab? I only sperg about this because the show is so loving perfect about everything else but it feels like Walt was never Mr. Chips and was always a loving prideful rear end in a top hat who was a huge baby about not being The Big Man, and his cancer diagnosis was what made him stop pretending to be anything else.
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Nov 6, 2013 18:29
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 02:25 |
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Great Beer posted:This is pretty much the point. Walt was always a prideful, manipulative rear end in a top hat. He abandoned gretchen and grey matter because he couldn't handle marrying into success. He needed everyone to know that he was the best from the start. The cancer diagnosis just made him decide to quit hiding it.
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Nov 6, 2013 19:01
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Redundant posted:Morality isn't black or white though. If you're saying he was a bad guy as soon as he turned down the money, why not just say he's a bad guy the second he decides to cook crystal meth? Also, keep in mind that the show (at least early on) seems very focused on making the audience side with Walt. Roland Jones posted:Or are you asking how the viewers can think that? That case, hell if I know.
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Nov 6, 2013 19:14
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beep by grandpa posted:Did you not watch the final episode What I do think the show should have addressed is wow, why is this genius chemist a loving high school teacher? Surely he should be teaching at a university or working in a lab. I get why the situation is the way it is for the purposes of the show. You need Walt to be a genius chemist so he can make the bestest meth ever, but you also need him to have a lovely low-paying job. If you wanna say he completely shut down after the Gray Matter incident (which I don't need to know the details of) that would be one thing, but we know he worked at a place called Sandia Labs when he first moved to Albuquerque that (Season 3 finale flashback). So did Walt just constantly burn bridges to the point where he could only get a job teaching high school, or is he so hosed in the head that he finds giving Fs to kids who don't give a poo poo more rewarding than working with equals? SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Nov 6, 2013 |
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Nov 6, 2013 20:13
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Redundant posted:Like Great Beer said, character investment meant that I was willing to overlook certain things as "necessary". Plus, he's really good at what he does and it's sometimes fun to root for the bad guy. I understand people not liking Walt but it's not totally out of left field that people like him right to the very end. There were certain things that would have turned me against Walt but I wanted him to succeed basically from beginning to end. And yeah, rooting for the bad guy is fun when it comes to poo poo like "how is he going to get out of this one?" like when Walt made a loving laser to get free of the radiator. That poo poo is magic and fun to watch. What I don't get is how you can see Walt choose Meth Adventures over swallowing his pride and accepting charity from people who have nothing but respect for him and think "This man puts family first." quote:There are a lot of possible reasons for Walt to have ended up where he is, the show doesn't bother with them though because Walt ending up in a situation that is perfect for him to break bad isn't the point of the show, him deciding to do bad stuff is. It's not implausible for a very capable man to end up in a low paying, lovely job and spending time dwelling on it wouldn't have really added much to the show.
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Nov 6, 2013 20:37
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WampaLord posted:It's an interesting question, but I think he would have refused charity from anyone, regardless of past romantic involvement. His loving pride was his downfall. Mr. Unlucky posted:If he accepts their charity he is not a man, simple as that. I understand why a lot of you would have trouble understanding this concept considering this website is mostly comprised of children pretending to be men, but try to think of it from a different perspective please. He was beaten down by life for decades and didn't fight back once the entire time, then he is supposed to just accept his pat on the head and lay down quietly and die? That's not what a man does, it's what some pet little bitch does. It's loving pathetic on every level and he had an entire lifetime's worth of rage to spend doing this right so why would he accept some charity from those stuck up assholes who are partly responsible for his lot in life to begin with? That is insult to injury, the poo poo cherry on top of the poo poo sundae.
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Nov 7, 2013 04:20
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dongsbot 9000 posted:Taking the Grey Matter job would be charity. Walt hasn't been in research for years; he'd be useless in the lab. He says all that stuff to Elliot out right, and Elliot didn't deny it.
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Nov 7, 2013 04:30
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Redundant posted:Walt makes really, really pure meth that the writers happened to make blue to differentiate it from the rest so a trail is easy to find. His meth isn't magic, it is literally called "biker meth" multiple times because it's the same poo poo bikers used to cook just done really well because the guy takes his lab work seriously and understands the science.
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Nov 7, 2013 14:45
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Lycus posted:By "magic", he wasn't referring to the Walt's process, he's referring to how it gives meth-heads super-highs and makes them go wild for it. That part's not a real thing.
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Nov 7, 2013 15:00
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Loucks posted:It's my understanding that X-ray crystallography has nothing at all to do with the production of methamphetamine. 
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Nov 7, 2013 18:19
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Pheeets posted:The Gray Matter offer would have been pure charity. The idea of Walt accepting the job and doing brilliant research is ludicrous. He had inoperable lung cancer, which is a death sentence; even with treatment he would have had only months to live, at a greatly diminished capacity (and in great pain), and Walt is goddamn smart enough to realize this. His own family talked him into treatment, effectively putting a burden on him to stay alive as long as he can no matter how difficult his life would be, so making a hail mary pass in the meth world was a logical choice to make tons of money in the short time he had left. He wouldn't have made an impact in a research lab, and you don't cure inoperable lung cancer, at best you prolong life for a few months.
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Nov 7, 2013 20:36
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Pheeets posted:Yeah, that was a tv show, you know, fiction, he had to live that long for the series to run. In real life he wouldn't have become a druglord. But that's the premise of the show, realistic or not. Walt doesn't reject the job offer because he thinks he'd be dead weight and can't accept charity, that kind of humility goes against his character. He rejects the offer because he cannot stand the idea of working for Gretchen and Elliot, even if what he's doing is not just providing for his family, but leaving a positive impact on the world. SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 20:53
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Pheeets posted:Yeah, the faint possibility of earning a plaque is a great incentive for a dying man. "Hey, how would you like to triple your current income with a job where you'll be respected and get full coverage for your cancer treatment, all without having to strangle anyone to death in a basement?" Normal Person: "Yes please!" Walter White: "gently caress. You." SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 21:22
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Pheeets posted:1. He didn't go into it knowing he would have to murder people. He just wanted to make a quick couple million and get out. Murder is what drew him farther into the business, and is part of what makes him a tragic hero.
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Nov 7, 2013 21:39
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Blazing Ownager posted:Even after everything that happened, I think there's no questioning Walt was the best at being a criminal in the entire show. Ironically the one part of him that didn't fully commit - loyalty to his family - is what brought him down in the end.
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Nov 7, 2013 22:45
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Pheeets posted:One of the things that made BrBa so powerful for me was the music, which so often added more levels of intrigue and enjoyment to the story.
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Nov 8, 2013 05:48
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Apollodorus posted:Glee? 
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Nov 8, 2013 05:54
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Count Chocula posted:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/opinion/i-have-a-character-issue.html?_r=1 Then it turned out there was actually more to her character and I got past that one scene, just like I got past Hank being kind of a racist rear end in a top hat after he threw away Tuco's grille.
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Nov 8, 2013 06:03
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PootieTang posted:And again I have to say you guys try real hard to make Walt out to be evil from the start or some super egotistical rear end in a top hat. At the start of the series, Walt wasn't super proud, in fact he was extremely humble. How can you not watch the scene where he quietly washes his students car while getting filmed and laughed at and think he's the same as the Walt that was all 'stay out of my territory?' Actually, come to think of it, it would have been awesome if the car he blew up in Season 1 belonged to that kid rather than to some random jackoff he just met the other day. And I just checked and saw that he blew that car up in the same episode he turned down Elliot's offer, and there's no way that that's a coincidence.
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Nov 8, 2013 20:03
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Redundant posted:This. I feel like people let later events colour their perspective of Walt throughout the entire show. The early instances of Walt doing "bad" things are things that I totally agreed with. Bogdan deserved to be told to go gently caress himself after he tried to renege on their deal for the second time in quick succession after the first time left Walt humiliated, the huge guy laughing at Walt Jr deserved to get taken down a peg or two, Emilio and Crazy 8 were going to kill Walt and Jesse so deserved what eventually happened to them.
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Nov 8, 2013 20:36
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PootieTang posted:I think you're being a bit hyperbolic there.
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Nov 8, 2013 20:44
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PootieTang posted:The gently caress?
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Nov 8, 2013 20:52
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WampaLord posted:The whole point is he wouldn't need as much money because they have awesome health insurance that would cover the cost of his treatment. Without those expenses, Walt and family could have lived very well on the (I'm guessing) solid high 5-figure salary that kind of position is worth. Even with sending 2 kids to college. quote:Adjusting for inflation – good state college – adjusting for inflation, say $45,000 a year, two kids, four years of college...$360,000. Remaining mortgage on the home, $107,000. Home equity line, $30,000, that's $137,000. Cost of living, food, clothing, utilities, say two grand a month? I mean, that should put a dent in it, anyway. 24K a year provides for, say, ten years. That's $240,000, plus 360 plus 137...737. $737,000, that's what I need. That is what I need. You and I both clear about 70 grand a week. That's only ten and a half more weeks. Call it eleven. Eleven more drug deals and always in a public place from now on. It's doable. Definitely doable.
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Nov 8, 2013 20:55
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Pheeets posted:edit: and Holly has to factor in 18 more years of inflation before she starts college, who knows how much it will cost by then?
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Nov 8, 2013 21:12
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jarjarbinksfan621 posted:- Walt doesn't seem like a "monster" or whatever. Yeah, bad things happened because he was too prideful or overambitious, but most of the bad poo poo he did was really just self-preservation. It's reasonable for the other characters to feel that way, but I don't think it's a fair assessment as viewers who see it from Walt's shoes. jarjarbinksfan621 posted:- Why does Jesse care so much about this random mexican kid? I get it, he's had intercourse with the mom and played that mediocre sonic mario kart with him, but c'mon...BROCK! this, BROCK! that. I felt that was inconsistent with his laid-back persona. I have a theory that anyone who believes the first statement will, 100% of the time, believe the second statement.
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Nov 10, 2013 06:17
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jarjarbinksfan621 posted:I get that, it's just that I was hoping Hank would approach it a different way than the "the law is the law, you scum" mindset considering his relationship with Walt. Maybe the nuance I'm suggesting would be inconsistent though.
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Nov 10, 2013 06:35
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CarlosTheDwarf posted:Skylar could spend the whole series feeding the homeless in a soup kitchen and she still wouldn't be likeable. It goes beyond her words and motives. It's her vibe. I'm guessing the skylar character in Metastasis is more likeable even if she is written the same.
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Nov 10, 2013 18:13
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PootieTang posted:He is saying that Skylar gives off a vibe that makes people hate her, rather than the hate being based of any of her actions or motivations.
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Nov 10, 2013 19:23
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Shbobdb posted:So he's enduring those various hells while she is . . . a struggling author who occasionally sells poo poo on ebay? That is her contribution to the household? A household that is clearly struggling financially? Walt works his rear end off at not one but two jobs that are beneath him while she farts around?
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Nov 11, 2013 03:19
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Shbobdb posted:Do we think the writers of the show think that? I'm gonna suggest that when writers present a character as a writer, how that character as a writer is presented says a great deal about them. Even if we wanted to indulge in absolute "death of the author"* someone using their "writing" as an excuse to gossip is some loving middle-school poo poo and not something an emotionally realized adult does. As for Skyler being "written to be unlikeable", I point to Vince Gilligan himself, who says: quote:We’ve been at events and had all our actors up onstage, and people ask Anna Gunn, “Why is your character such a bitch?” And with the risk of painting with too broad a brush, I think the people who have these issues with the wives being too bitchy on Breaking Bad are misogynists, plain and simple. I like Skyler a little less now that she’s succumbed to Walt’s machinations, but in the early days she was the voice of morality on the show. She was the one telling him, “You can’t cook crystal meth.” She’s got a tough job being married to this rear end in a top hat. And this, by the way, is why I should avoid the Internet at all costs. People are griping about Skyler White being too much of a killjoy to her meth-cooking, murdering husband? She’s telling him not to be a murderer and a guy who cooks drugs for kids. How could you have a problem with that?
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Nov 11, 2013 04:47
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fleshweasel posted:I think we can all agree that Marie sucks. SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Nov 11, 2013 |
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Nov 11, 2013 14:06
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nnnnghhhhgnnngh posted:Please everybody forgive this crass display of misandry, but I don't like him very much at all!
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Nov 11, 2013 16:13
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I think Todd is a combination of Asperger's Syndrome and being raised by literal Nazis.
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Nov 12, 2013 20:50
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I really wish people had pitched Breaking Bad to me as a black comedy instead of as a dark and gritty examination of man's soul. I mean, it's both those things, but if I had heard more about how loving funny the show could be, I think I would have checked it out while it was still airing. Even Ozymandias had Walt rolling the barrel past his pants from the pilot and "sorry for your loss."
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Nov 13, 2013 16:20
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PriorMarcus posted:You spend half your day moderating one of the shittiest threads in TVIV and you didn't have time to check out the single most critically acclaimed series of all time because it wasn't pitched to you well enough?
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Nov 13, 2013 18:21
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There's a Skyler line that I don't think gets nearly enough love, and that's in Season 4 when she's prepping with Walt about how they're going to tell Hank the gambling lie and she says, completely deadpan, "We have to get their sympathy right off the bat. It's important we make them understand why you would do something so stupid." And I loving loved that, because Walt is stupid. He chose making meth over accepting help and he was stupid enough to think he could hide the truth from his wife.
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Nov 13, 2013 22:57
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verybad posted:I don't really remember any of it, I just found it ridiculous that the guy was being attacked for basically saying that the writers didn't intend for Skyler to be likeable on the first impression, and that first impression had stuck with him and colored his opinion of her for the rest of the show. What an rear end in a top hat, am I right? It ruled when Hank died because he was such an rear end in a top hat in Season 1, amirite?
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Nov 14, 2013 18:10
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I like breaking bad comics when they aren't stupid uncreative puns. They're funny. I'd post them in the PYF meme thread but I don't wanna spoil people.
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Nov 16, 2013 09:07
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Pissflaps posted:My wife and I have just watched all of this and we were left with one thing that puzzled us: Marie's reaction to Walt's activities. She seemed to take it so personally, more so than Hank, and was out for his blood immediately. Did we miss something?
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Nov 16, 2013 13:01
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 02:25 |
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Neither Mike and Walt are "good people," but Mike is a decent human being, unlike Walt.
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Nov 29, 2013 01:04
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