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HGH
Dec 20, 2011
Well, swastikas are just an altered Buddhist symbol, which sometimes causes real issues with some localized games.

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Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Hyper Crab Tank posted:

The nazis were obsessively concerned with lineages though, so not all whites were okay with them. Anglo-Saxons and Normans are Germanic, and thus superior. The same can't be said for Slavs (or, presumably, Celts, which makes French nazis a little strange too), which were decidedly un-Germanic and thus inferior. Oddly, they considered some Slavs to "actually" be Germanic tribes and thus okay. It's... no one's ever accused nazi racial ideology of being anything but hosed up, but you kind of have to wonder sometimes. Also, for some reason, Tibetans were considered awesome because they believed Tibet was founded by Aryans.


I think we're starting to get way off-topic, but they didn't really care too much about lineages considering the long list of recruits they had and enabled



RareAcumen posted:

The more dumb poo poo that comes out of Reddit, the more I want to make a Reddit.txt thread in PYF.

Problem is that I'm scared I'll make a bad OP. :ohdear:

I don't think that's even remotely possible. PYF Random Reddit Quote would be a fun one.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

People really don't understand what 'freedom of speech' actually covers, do they?

Thanks, Reddit. I actually support Twitch in their decision mostly because it's pissing these grognards off. As for the actual reasons, I'm also not going to support Hatred, so that's fine with me that it'll be banned.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Thanks, Reddit. I actually support Twitch in their decision mostly because it's pissing these grognards off.

omeg
Sep 3, 2012

Azran posted:

On the topic of people who don't edit their videos into a decent-sized chunk:

https://www.youtube.com/user/Totalgamefreak

He's great background noise while playing other games - never annoying, doesn't scream, perpetually amusing but holy poo poo, that viewer to video ratio is hosed up.

I really like him. I don't mind long videos and he does edit stuff if it's backtracking, repetition or similar things. He's intelligent, often has interesting things to say about the game and plays a lot of weird indie games noone ever heard of. He likes to read stuff out aloud though so be warned :v: I don't mind that because I often treat LPs as podcasts, keeping them in the background while I'm doing something else.

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

People really don't understand what 'freedom of speech' actually covers, do they?

Thanks, Reddit. I actually support Twitch in their decision mostly because it's pissing these grognards off. As for the actual reasons, I'm also not going to support Hatred, so that's fine with me that it'll be banned.



Grognard usually indicates an unpleasant person in the tabletop gaming community. I am not sure if there is an equivalent when it comes to videogames, but there should be.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

paradoxGentleman posted:

Grognard usually indicates an unpleasant person in the tabletop gaming community. I am not sure if there is an equivalent when it comes to videogames, but there should be.

My mistake.

F. Lobot
Jul 6, 2010

Shouldn't they probably make an exception for GTA San Andreas? The M and AO versions are exactly the same.

Also, I get that they don't want porn games on their site, but why Manhunt 2?

Most of the games they're trying to purge are unrated PC-only hentai visual novels, so the ESRB distinction is useless. Just ban Hatred and be done with it.

What's the content like in Indigo Prophecy?

F. Lobot fucked around with this message at 16:09 on May 28, 2015

slowbeef
Mar 15, 2005

Will Harvey hates you, and everything you stand for.
Pillbug

F. Lobot posted:

Shouldn't they probably make an exception for GTA San Andreas? The M and AO versions are exactly the same.

They did, as I understand it.

http://blog.twitch.tv/2015/05/rules-of-conduct-update-adult-oriented-games/

quote:

However, ESRB rated Mature versions of Adults Only titles are permitted for streaming, such as Mature versions of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and Fahrenheit: Indigo Prophecy.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

HGH posted:

Also the Twitch mods keep citing Polygon as a source for some reason, practically shooting themselves in the foot.

Because that article clearly states that the ESRB told the writer that Hatred would be receiving an AO rating. That's not really as absurd as the knee-jerk reactors are making it out to be.

I dislike Polygon but this is verbatim what the article says:

quote:

The ESRB confirmed the rating with Polygon, but we're waiting on a comment on the content that lead to the harsh designation.

It's like citing any normal news site that has the info you're referring to.


Also Re: GTA SA, it was given an AO due to the Hot Coffee thing, Rockstar patched it out prior to full release and it got bumped down to an M rating so it's fine. Just don't play the Hot Coffee mod and you're good.

Attestant
Oct 23, 2012

Don't judge me.
Why does GTA:SA even have a Mature rating in the first place? Is it some post-Hot Coffee stupidity? :allears:

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

Attestant posted:

Why does GTA:SA even have a Mature rating in the first place? Is it some post-Hot Coffee stupidity? :allears:

Most likely, yeah.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
From Wikipedia

quote:

On 20 July 2005, North America's organization who establish content ratings for video games, the ESRB, changed the rating of the game from Mature (M) to Adults Only (AO), making San Andreas the only mass-released AO console game in the United States. Rockstar announced that it would cease production of the version of the game that included the controversial content. Rockstar gave distributors the option of applying an Adults Only ESRB rating sticker to copies of the game, or returning them to be replaced by versions without the Hot Coffee content.

In August 2005, Rockstar North released an official "Cold Coffee" patch for the PC version of the game and re-released San Andreas with the "Hot Coffee" scenes removed (Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Version 2.0), allowing the game to return to its "M" rating."

According to the ESRB website GTA SA has the M rating due to Blood and Gore, Intense Violence, Strong Language, Strong Sexual Content, Use of Drugs

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=33275

GTA games usually get an M rating due to those things as well:

GTA IV - http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=24582
GTA V - http://www.esrb.org/ratings/synopsis.jsp?Certificate=33073

F. Lobot
Jul 6, 2010

I'm referring to the original release of San Andreas which was rated M but was identical to the AO release. How would Twitch even know what rating is on your game case?

e: Even if you stream the AO version, why would it matter unless you use a Gameshark to access the hot coffee scene. If you did stream hot coffee, that in itself would be a violation of Twitch's rules (don't focus on sexual scenes more than is necessary to progress the story).

F. Lobot fucked around with this message at 16:16 on May 28, 2015

a cartoon duck
Sep 5, 2011

They don't actually care and just pre-empted the people who'd otherwise go "but what about San Andreas!"

slowbeef
Mar 15, 2005

Will Harvey hates you, and everything you stand for.
Pillbug

a cartoon duck posted:

They don't actually care

I think they actually care in one aspect.

If there is a shooting and the shooter cites Hatred, that is almost a guaranteed wrongful death suit and Twitch wants no part of that. Not to mention the bad press.

a cartoon duck
Sep 5, 2011

What I meant is that they don't particularly about the minutiae of version differences and they're not gonna meticulously research which version of San Andreas or Indigo Prophesy anyone plays. They're just shutting down an angle of rules-lawyering that people would inevitably get up to otherwise.

Obviously they care about not having their site become a venue for porn games or super gorey games or they wouldn't have clarified their rules prior to one of those coming out.

edit:

F. Lobot posted:

What's the content like in Indigo Prophecy?

The international or uncut or whatever version has a sex scene where you have to do thrusting motions with your mouse because it's a David Cage game. Pretty sure that's the only reason it got an AO rating in the US.

a cartoon duck fucked around with this message at 17:07 on May 28, 2015

slowbeef
Mar 15, 2005

Will Harvey hates you, and everything you stand for.
Pillbug

a cartoon duck posted:

What I meant is that they don't particularly about the minutiae of version differences and they're not gonna meticulously research which version of San Andreas or Indigo Prophesy anyone plays. They're just shutting down an angle of rules-lawyering that people would inevitably get up to otherwise.

I know what you were getting at, but I wanted to add that in. I used your post as a springboard for it. I used you.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

slowbeef posted:

I used you.

Sociopath

F. Lobot
Jul 6, 2010

So why not ban Hatred and leave the other games alone? Is Hatred gonna sue Twitch for wrongful discrimination?

The Vosgian Beast
Aug 13, 2011

Business is slow

F. Lobot posted:

So why not ban Hatred and leave the other games alone? Is Hatred gonna sue Twitch for wrongful discrimination?

If they did that, Gamergate would piss themselves in anger and then try to takedown Twitch.

Alternatively, someone kept trying to stream Hentai games.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

F. Lobot posted:

So why not ban Hatred and leave the other games alone? Is Hatred gonna sue Twitch for wrongful discrimination?

What other games are being affected that aren't AO games?

With the exception of Fahrenheit, Manhunt 2, & GTASA (all of which has their own M rated versions), most if not all AO games are sex sims.

Mekchu fucked around with this message at 17:36 on May 28, 2015

Big Scary Owl
Oct 1, 2014

by Fluffdaddy
I wonder if Twitch will change their minds when everyone moves to Hitbox to stream Hatred :smug:

F. Lobot
Jul 6, 2010

Unfunny Poster posted:

What games that aren't AO are being affected by the ban on AO games?

With the exception of Fahrenheit & GTASA (both of which has their own M rated versions), most if not all AO games are sex sims.

And they already ban sex sims. The only purpose of the AO ban is Hatred.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

F. Lobot posted:

And they already ban sex sims. The only purpose of the AO ban is Hatred.

Right, this is to expand the policy to say "all Adult Only games (as rated by the ESRB) are prohibited from being streamed." Because targeting one thing in particular isn't exactly the smartest thing a business like Twitch would do. If you apply a blanket ban it prevents people from making a Hatred type game and trying to skirt your policy. If you ban all AO games, no one can get around that.

So what are these other games that are being affected like you implied here: "leave the other games alone?"

Big Scary Owl posted:

I wonder if Twitch will change their minds when everyone moves to Hitbox to stream Hatred :smug:

The fact people are trumpeting a move to Hitbox over a lovely twin shooter game is pretty comical.

F. Lobot
Jul 6, 2010

Unfunny Poster posted:

So what are these other games that are being affected like you implied here: "leave the other games alone?"

Fahrenheit, Manhunt 2, & GTASA. I thought I was clear.

quote:

If you apply a blanket ban it prevents people from making a Hatred type game and trying to skirt your policy. If you ban all AO games, no one can get around that.

Sure they can, just don't submit it to the ESRB. There's plenty of unrated games on Steam.

cargohills
Apr 18, 2014

F. Lobot posted:

Fahrenheit, Manhunt 2, & GTASA. I thought I was clear.

Those games aren't going to be banned. There are M rated versions of them.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

F. Lobot posted:

Fahrenheit, Manhunt 2, & GTASA. I thought I was clear.


Sure they can, just don't submit it to the ESRB. There's plenty of unrated games on Steam.

Those three games have M-Rated versions that aren't affected. The "director's cut" of Manhunt 2 & Fahrenheit, which are rated AO, are affected and prohibited. Twitch said if they catch wind people are streaming the AO version of those games, they'll enforce the policy. How well that will be enforced is debatable given Twitch's actions in the past but that's what they're saying. As for GTA SA, as far as I know it was given AO, then bumped down to M after Rockstar removed the sex minigame which all took place prior to its launch, the rating and removal were in July/August of 2004 with the game releasing in October.

As for the unrated Steam games, it seems Twitch will take it on a case-by-case approach which is rational to do.

Mekchu fucked around with this message at 18:00 on May 28, 2015

paradoxGentleman
Dec 10, 2013

wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

I suppose there could be consequences if someone decided to stream the AO version and specifically show off the extreme parts, thus losing plausible deniability.

F. Lobot
Jul 6, 2010

cargohills posted:

Those games aren't going to be banned. There are M rated versions of them.

The AO versions are banned, despite their content being similar to countless M-rated games.

Here's a (surprisingly short) list of explicitly banned games, no ESRB ratings necessary.
BMX XXX
Dramatical Murder
HuniePop
Sakura Spirit
Second Life

I don't see why Hatred (and all the AO sex games) couldn't be added to this list.

Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The 16-bit retro-future of crustacean-based transportation
I'm really not sure what issue people are having, exactly? "Don't show AO-rated content" seems fairly cut and dry to me. I mean, come on, you have to assume the people making the calls aren't complete idiots or rules-lawyers. They're not going to check what version of the game you're running so long as the actual content you're streaming isn't over the line. As far as I'm concerned they're just cleaning up their rules in a way that makes sure any future AO-rated games that come out are also covered without them having to go through this stupid treadmill every time. Handling each game separately every time it comes up is impractical in the long run.

F. Lobot
Jul 6, 2010

AO games don't even come out that often. The bulk of the problem is from the countless unrated erotic visual novels on Steam.

slowbeef
Mar 15, 2005

Will Harvey hates you, and everything you stand for.
Pillbug

F. Lobot posted:

So why not ban Hatred and leave the other games alone? Is Hatred gonna sue Twitch for wrongful discrimination?

Nah but it's Hatred today, maybe School Shooting Simulator tomorrow or Babykiller 5000 or whatever controversial thing someone can think up and make in Unreal or Unity or whatever. Rather than deal with a million emails for every specific game, just blanket rule and use that as the de facto argument.

dreezy
Mar 4, 2015

yeah, rip.
The reason AO games are rare is because physics retailers don't carry them. Hatred is going to be an enormous success for the developers (less so for humanity as a whole) due to all the free press it's getting. I wouldn't be at all surprised if other edgy devs see dollar signs and we get a wave of AO-level games in the near future. To me, what twitch is doing makes a lot of sense.

Besides, banning Hatred specifically doesn't affect people who already find it disgusting and only makes its fans want it that much more. Banning it is exactly the kind of press the developers want.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

dreezy posted:

The reason AO games are rare is because physics retailers don't carry them.

No one sells anti-gravity in my area :(

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.

The Vosgian Beast posted:

If they did that, Gamergate would piss themselves in anger and then try to takedown Twitch.

Alternatively, someone kept trying to stream Hentai games.

I'd like to think it's that same guy who used to repeatedly try to LP hentai games here and Twitch is trying to get him to stop already.

Captain Sheepy
Nov 22, 2013

My apologies!

CJacobs posted:

Well I mean the game is developed by nazis so I guess it makes sense that they would want to turn the tables every once in a while

edit: Sorry, NEO-nazis. Last time I said nazis someone :goonsay:-ed me on it as if I give a drat

"New Nazi Packaging, Same Great Nazi Taste!"

F. Lobot posted:

AO games don't even come out that often. The bulk of the problem is from the countless unrated erotic visual novels on Steam.

The thing with those is that they're all "censored" versions that lack any sort of nudity or... the you know. Not that it makes playing those any less embarrassing of course.

Roaper
Mar 23, 2012

When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Captain Sheepy posted:

"New Nazi Packaging, Same Great Nazi Taste!"


The thing with those is that they're all "censored" versions that lack any sort of nudity or... the you know. Not that it makes playing those any less embarrassing of course.

Gee thanks. that's going to show up in my suggested videos now.

Mekchu
Apr 10, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Captain Sheepy posted:

The thing with those is that they're all "censored" versions that lack any sort of nudity or... the you know. Not that it makes playing those any less embarrassing of course.

Is he speaking English? I can't make out a single word he's saying.

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The Vosgian Beast
Aug 13, 2011

Business is slow
It is one of the great tragedies of the internet that the original video this is mocking has vanished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q2Ep9lz5Ao

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