The Walking Dead: "This shit is screwed up!"

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > The Walking Dead: "This shit is screwed up!"

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

When half the thread says "fast forward/post through the boring parts" it's no surprise that people are really confused about Herschel's leg or the bag.

Buddington posted:

Without saying anything as to whether it was "good" or "bad", you aren't paying attention if you think Rick's part of the episode was pointless or had no direction. Rick's character and a lot of the show has been about what kind of leader he is, what kind of person he is, what kind of person you should be in this kind of situation. He's gone back and forth, for a while he bought into turtling up and not trusting anyone. Then at the end of last season after all the poo poo with Woodbury and Carl getting dark, he came back around to valuing trust again. Rick's part of this episode was to bring us up to speed on where he's at with all that stuff. He's happier now that they have a council and he isn't just The Guy. He doesn't carry a gun, he likes just being a farmer and not making lovely choices. But those hard choices are still out there outside the fences, such as crazy Irish lady who seems like a decent enough person who understandably lost her mind, and after she couldn't feed Rick to her zombie husband basically decided to suicide by cop, and then just plain suicide. I mean, there's better TV out there and this episode didn't blow my mind but there's a lot of things people could post about that would be actually interesting to read rather than "This show sure is bad heh."

This is spot on. I didn't think Rick's subplot was handled in a particularly great way, but I appreciated what they were going for and I liked that the woman was a one off, isolated character. This show has problems with dragging things out too long, so I'm fine with showing who she is from beginning to end and making it about how these things affect Rick more than just starting a new, running subplot. It absolutely didn't work as well as Clear, but it was an attempt at a similar "here's what Rick could have become if things had gone worse" plot. He literally says it himself. Her fate isn't important, it's what it says to and about Rick that matters. Like him or not, this is Rick's story and it always has been, even if it's an ensemble cast. Likewise, the guy dying at Big Spot: He doesn't matter. Beth's reaction does.

It wasn't my favorite episode but I liked it more than season 3's premiere and it worked for me as a time's passed, here's where everyone is now, calm before the storm sort of episode. It didn't open with a big bang but it didn't really have to.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2013 06:14

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 08:32

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

TOOT BOOT posted:

Be honest, its a little contrived when the roof collapses in a dozen independent places while the cast are inside. The episode just didnt do much for me in general, especially as a season premiere. Killing off a guy that was introduced 10 minutes earlier doesn't create a lot of drama. Does anyone NOT have the expectation that 95% of the new characters are redshirts?

Yes, it's contrived. It was also a fun action scene, so that's ok sometimes.

Again, the guy that died wasn't what was important. Beth's reaction was. It's showing how dehumanized this new society is, even though they're the Good Guys. It's ok to think that's dumb and not like it but it's not a pointless, random thing and neither was Rick's plot.

# ¿ Oct 14, 2013 06:30

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

THE PWNER posted:

So what was the implication with the glasses kid's fever? Was he bitten and hiding it, or did it just pop up entirely out of nowhere and kill him, apparently in one night, after causing bleeding from his mouth and eyes?

He had an unknown ailment that will obviously be part of the plot in the next few episodes. No he wasn't bitten.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2013 05:54

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

I hope the spin off series is about pre-apocalypse Daryl and Merle.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2013 14:09

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

I don't think a single person seriously thought she was a talking zombie. People just made lots of dumb jokes about it.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2013 18:56

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Exploder posted:

I think they definitely hinted at this IIRC. Shane was always a hotheaded rear end in a top hat, but prior to that episode I don't think he would, in his right mind, justify killing Rick just to steal Lori away. He was seeing red, and the implied explanation, at least in my opinion, is that the virus had somehow mutated or incubated in his body to the point where it was affecting his living brain.

Shane killed Otis and had a breakdown that snapped him completely. It was all downhill from there, his confrontation with Rick was absolutely not sudden or unexpected. Like the woman in this last episode, he did terrible things and "couldn't come back." He wasn't half zombie. Protecting Lori and Carl was literally his only reason for living and he felt that he'd lost that, it wouldn't take much to push him over the edge in an already horrible situation.

A True Jar Jar Fan fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Oct 15, 2013

# ¿ Oct 15, 2013 22:14

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

All that is why I really liked season 2. Shane was an antagonist but never a villain, which is a hell of a lot better than what we got in season 3.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2013 22:31

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Buzkashi posted:

The irish lady in the woods died ridiculously quickly for having stabbed herself in the stomach. Wouldn't that end up being an agonizing drawn out death by sepsis basically?

Nope she had a high level knife, it's ok.

# ¿ Oct 17, 2013 13:13

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Complaining about weed density is a step up from complaining that Maggie's scene with the Governor wasn't rapey enough at least (I think that was in the spoiler thread and not this one but god drat)

# ¿ Oct 25, 2013 15:04

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Carol covering for someone would make zero sense given what we've been shown and what she's said and would be an F-grade twist. Episode was great.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2013 15:29

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

People don't want to see a character they like do something terrible and would rather it be someone they don't.

moths posted:

I'm confused why they actually showed her killing the girlfriend in a flashback. It's a better story if she was covering for the kids, but now there's no reason to still think that's the case.

It really wouldn't be a better story.

A True Jar Jar Fan fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Nov 5, 2013

# ¿ Nov 5, 2013 16:05

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

What made the episode work so well for me is that in Carol's mind it was the right thing to do, as ghoulish as it was. That kind of thing doesn't work with a cartoon like The Governor, but it works with Carol because we like her. It's been a slow crawl from innocent and defenseless to extreme pragmatism and that's good tv. If it was all a cover up to protect an Evil Child it would dump on everything interesting about her development.

"I bet the girl was faking her cough!!" is the silliest thing in a long time.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2013 16:24

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Nerdy Dude was a young teenager presumably not much older than she is and he was the first to die from the illness.

Carol has not lost all humanity. She's screwed up and full of guilt about doing something gruesome even if she saw it as being for the greater good and that's why it works. She's entirely human. I'm not saying it's impossible that her confession and the girl's cough and everything else is a big conspiracy, but I personally think it would be impossibly stupid and Carol wouldn't send her into quarantine if the fear was that Evil Child was desperate to kill again.

A True Jar Jar Fan fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Nov 5, 2013

# ¿ Nov 5, 2013 18:01

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Flame112 posted:

Hey am I crazy or were those dorky hippy dudes on a photograph that Daryl looked at in the car repair place? Also, what did Daryl say to alcoholic guy during their confrontation? All I got was like "If you mumble mumble beat you into the ground", or something.

The four people in the photo are the four walkers they kill at that station.

# ¿ Nov 5, 2013 19:34

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

I like that now apparently the people in quarantine are all better if the show isn't actively showing then barfing.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2013 18:29

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

zoux posted:

What?

Fog Tripper's post up there saying the kid was the real killer because she didn't look sick enough, ignoring that the last kid who died of this illness actually looked totally fine until shortly before his death and maybe her cough didn't sound real enough because she's a child actor rather than it being a plot tell.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2013 18:39

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

I think Carol confessing to the killings and looking obviously upset and conflicted about what happened is proof enough for me to believe her when she said she did it, I don't really know what other argument I'd have to make. It fits her arc better than the alternative.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2013 19:28

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

zoux posted:

I thought it was interesting the way Herschel referred to Rick going apeshit on Ty as "falling off the wagon". In a lot of ways it's like an addiction. It's a dangerous mindset that Rick is predisposed toward that he has to spend a lot of effort combating. So if you view Rick's farming ways as sort of a rehabilitation away from this violence, his actions make sense. Just like you would understand (not condone) why an addict is acting a certain way when they are on drugs or booze for long periods of time, I think Rick's behavior from the "this is not a democracy" line until this season explain his behavior very well.

I thought this was great and I like Rick trying desperately to hold in his violent side. His Tyrese fight was a really solid moment for both characters and I'm dumbstruck that anyone thought that was a bad/pointless scene. Yeah, Rick is a moral hypocrite sometimes. We all are.

I'm glad no one is arguing that leaving the hitchhiker was smart because he was probably a GOVERNOR SPY anymore.

A True Jar Jar Fan fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Nov 6, 2013

# ¿ Nov 6, 2013 21:50

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Body Armor Andrea®, Zombie Super Shane, and Hitchhiking Spy let the zombies in.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2013 21:56

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Bown posted:

That one part where Bob went for his gun or whatever and Daryl just got all up in his face really aggressively and intimidatingly was so ridiculous and childish. I don't usually post in this thread but I had to point out how silly that was. What was absolutely anybody thinking?

I thought it was pretty funny.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2013 14:26

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Maybe she thought burning them was less of a health risk than leaving dead bodies in peoples living space.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2013 22:47

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Verybad's completely right here.

The girl doesn't even approve of killing zombies, why would she kill humans? What would be the point of her speech about becoming one being change akin to growing up? She's acted entirely as a pacifist in every scene so far. That's why it would be a dumb twist. Carol forced them to murder? How do we get there?

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 15:51

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

bobkatt013 posted:

I saw it could be someone who still supports the Governor and feeding them rats so more zombies will come and be able to cause more destruction.

This would be even worse than Evil Murder Child. It makes sense for the girl who spent two episodes talking about how zombies are people too feeding them out of pity. It would be lame as hell to have Governor spies in the camp. Honestly I'd be happiest if we never heard from him again.

A True Jar Jar Fan fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Nov 8, 2013

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 19:32

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

bobkatt013 posted:

Why? The Governor is still out there and we know he is going to try to kill everyone? He has used zombies before as foot troops and if he has an army at this point its very tiny since he killed them all.

Because he's a boring, badly written character and internal moral conflicts are more interesting than a mustache twirling villain out for revenge. There is no reason anyone at the prison would have loyalty to him. It was hard enough to buy ANYONE having loyalty to him last season. If he had a man planted at the prison, he'd just have him shank Rick.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 19:42

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

ravenkult posted:

I don't really believe the kid did it, but come on, don't tell me that cough didn't look fake as poo poo.

''I don't fell good.'' PAUSE ''cough''

She's not an especially good actor.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 20:00

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

The rats are definitely attracting more zombies, the question is whether it's a consequence of someone naive or someone malicious. I think the former would make for a better story.

Fog Tripper posted:

"This guy agrees with me. Clearly that means that he is "right"".

What would be the point of ANY of the built-up backstory of the girl?

Building her story up and her personality is important because she's a character on the show whose plot clearly isn't finished yet and because it contrasts her surrogate mother so well, adding something to both characters.

I have no idea why you're taking issue with that other comment. Yes, I think the guy who makes an argument I agree with is right.

# ¿ Nov 8, 2013 20:57

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Dstrukt posted:

But I disagree that having murdering kids is poor writing.

I agree that having a child turn into a killer in such a broken environment could be an interesting plot, the poor writing would be turning THIS child into the killer of these people. If they wanted to go there, there's like a dozen things that should have been done differently first. It's certainly something that could work in a later story, possibly even involving this same girl, but not here and now.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2013 04:29

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

He's got a good voice.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2013 16:26

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

I assume the rest of the walkin dudes are on their way and will be the reason they finally need to abandon the prison.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2013 17:49

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Tyrese feels more uncomfortable with a life of violence than almost anyone on the show (see his talks with Karen in the premiere, plus the way he stood up to the governor last year) so it's weird to me that he has a reputation for being exceedingly violent because he snapped and punched down Rick (who then punched him even worse.) If anyone's a ticking time bomb to me it's Rick.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2013 18:05

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Does anyone else think the last episode's ending would have worked better as an opening? I really feel like having the theme music kick in after the Governor reveal would have bothered me less than how it was presented here. I loved that most of the episode focused on Herschel and as much as I loved his"hell yeah" at the end it would have been more powerful to cut to credits after he broke down in his cell.

Of course if that happened and the conversation between Herschel and Daryl wasn't there in this episode people in this thread would accuse the writers of forgetting about the Carol plot line.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2013 19:36

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

verybad posted:

I think the Governor reveal really fit the "when it rains, it pours" thing this season's had going on, it's just that the character and the plotlines associated with him where such a trainwreck last season that it kind of soured the mood. As for Hershel, showing him being all badass next morning was a really important part of the episode. The times are hard, but you survive and you move on and you'll be stronger for it. Leaving it at Hershel crying would be a rather pessimistic ending, I feel.

Yeah, knowing that I don't like the character of the Governor made me sour on the whole ending, even though I want to be optimistic. It definitely would have been a more pessimistic ending, but I would have preferred being punched in the gut and seeing him come out stronger in the next episode rather than me coming out of this one 99% pleased and then frowning hard.

I'm curious if anyone still thinks Bob is a spy and why.

# ¿ Nov 13, 2013 19:57

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

What's wrong with Daryl Swooning?

# ¿ Nov 13, 2013 22:12

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

EccoRaven posted:

Someone mentioned this way earlier in the thread, but one of the overarching storylines has been Rick's coming to terms with his life, both before the apocalypse and after. Previous seasons have involved Rick accepting the realities of the new walker-world (S1), then resolving his relationship with his best friend (S2), his wife (S3), and now Carl. I have a gut feeling that, once Carl's character reaches the apotheosis (probably by Rick full acceptance of Carl's passage into adulthood), Rick will die, since his character arc will also be complete.

I'm not 100% on this, but I've made a slap bet with a friend over it, so I'm feeling pretty lucky.

I wrote about this and I'd be 100% happy with this being the ending to Rick's story this season or next, and then starting fresh with a new crew in the spinoff in 2015. AMC's going to keep this show going for a long time but that doesn't mean it has to keep this story going.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2013 07:28

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

I'm personally pumped to find out whether a guy on Talking Dead said a thing without having to watch it.

# ¿ Nov 17, 2013 18:36

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

I was really not looking forward to this episode but I ended up liking it a lot in spite of totally hating The Governor last season. Pretty much everything about the story's been said, so I just want to say that I really liked how this episode looked. This whole season's had more careful camera/cinematography work than most of the show, and this one looked especially nice. The atmosphere in the retirement home was great, and actually hit the right mix of scary/sad that season 1 hit pretty well that the other characters had moved beyond by becoming so used to killing these things. Gov going to that place basically was a reboot for him, he's a sloppy, inexperienced mess tumbling around a (sort of) hospital just like Rick in episode 1, and I really felt like it replicated the tone of the show's opening episode well.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2013 04:35

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

Astroman posted:

I thought this was a really deep episode.

The Governor went through so many stages. First, he was desperate to hold on to "Brian" and not have his past revealed. They see the Cabin and it's a Woodbury allusion where he sees his old life play out. The family in the cabin was attacked by the "liar" and "rapist" who looked like army deserters. The husband killed them, kept their heads, and killed himself, at some point killing the family he failed to protect (unless the attackers killed them). The Governor saw himself--the cabin was Woodbury, the family in the picture was his family in a picture, the heads in the closet were his fishtank heads, there was a war and everyone died and the settlement failed. After this, Martinez asks him to share power and he freaks out and kills him.

He then goes out with Charlie and Enver Gjokaj (two great actors) and sees the Dilemma of The Camp, and it's like a mini versioin of The Governor vs Rick in their decisions and leadership styles. "Rick" (Pete) decides to spare the camp while his brother wants to cold rob them Governor style. The Governor realizes that Pete's brother's Governor style is better, and the camp is either going to be torn apart by their conflicting styles or Pete's Rick style wussiness will get them all killed.

He has to make a choice. He was offered leadership and said no. He can chose between his old ways or Rick's, and instead decides to leave. But the road is blocked. Feeling no other option is open to him, he kills the "Rick" surrogate and takes over. And not soon after, he's ready to invade the prison again when he sees their camp can't keep his "daughter" safe. And he has a new fishtank.

So much happened here, on so many levels. I questioned at first two Governor episodes in a row, but this was great. I wished Morrissey had been on this Talking Dead instead of last week to discuss it.

I actually think this is spot on but I still really disliked the episode (and I really liked the previous week's.) I get and appreciate what they were trying to do here, but I was completely bored by the results and the last thing I feel like watching is another prison battle. It's the first episode this season that didn't work for me, so I don't want to be too negative here, but since it looks like it's going to be a part of a bigger story it worries me.

Alchenar posted:

The problem I have with the Governor isn't the character per se, it's how people react to him. Yeah Joe Toy is going to agree to help him when he has a gun to his face, but the moment he turns his back he should be dropping the Governor. Rational people don't agree to be lead by someone who's willing to murder anyone who looks remotely like a weakness or threat, because that person could be you at any point.

When Martinez didn't shoot him in the end of season 3 as soon as he turned his back I justified it as complete devotion to someone he cared about. This set up was a parallel to that only with a character who would never have any reason at all to not shoot him when his back was turned.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2013 01:59

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

zoux posted:

You know critical and audience response for these last two episodes has been pretty good actually.

The first one deserves it.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2013 16:07

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

I want Rick to grow a big old Herschel beard during the next half now that he done made Herschel proud.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2013 02:47

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 08:32

A True Jar Jar Fan: Nov 3, 2003; Primadonna

My favorite moment in this episode varies between people here thinking The Governor shot Michonne and people asking where he got a sword.

Super Ninja Fish posted:

Mine too but it's really going to take away from that moment if we find out that Judith's really dead and those kids just abandoned a baby to go fight.

I'm surprised there's not a whole lot of hate here for Rick's decision to refuse the governor's demands without even discussing it with the rest of the group. God, what an rear end in a top hat. He knows the governor is a crazy psychopath more than willing to kill the innocent. He knows that reasoning with him was a complete waste of time the last time he tried to do it. He knows that he has no leverage. He's not the one with hostages. How can he be so stupid? How could he not have seen what was coming? Congratulations, Rick, you didn't want to leave, now you're leaving anyway and you got people killed again.

He was trying to convince the other dozen armed people who are presumably more rational than ole One Eye.

# ¿ Dec 3, 2013 14:27

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