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Broken Machine posted:As a tribute to this fine, if tragic, work of art, there is now an Jesus, it's hard for me to express just how disturbing I find that smiley. It's this horrible little empty creature, beamingly proud that it has done a horrible thing, with no comprehension of the consequences. This is the face of the NSA.
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Oct 31, 2013 08:08
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http://www.regensburg-digital.de/regensburg-kutscher-wurde-ueberwacht/25102013/ (source is in German and I'm not even sorry) A Bavarian tourist guide tried to visit his children in England and got arrested by British policemen because he had unsuccessful email correspondence about a car-sharing offer from a drug smuggling suspect.
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Oct 31, 2013 13:09
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Snowden just got a job with a Russian company. I dunno why that pisses me off. We really should be bringing him back as a hero with a parade. Make him head of the NSA. Get him to fix the Obamacare website. Hell, anything but trying to ineffectively brand him as a traitor. So much untapped talent gone cause idiots wanna keep their power here.
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Oct 31, 2013 13:55
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I think the posters who were vigorously defending the NSA for months should at this point if not apologize for then at least gracefully retract their incredulous denunciations of Snowden and Greenwald as insane and lying for claiming things we now know to be true.
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Oct 31, 2013 14:52
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Tezzor posted:I think the posters who were vigorously defending the NSA for months should at this point if not apologize for then at least gracefully retract their incredulous denunciations of Snowden and Greenwald as insane and lying for claiming things we now know to be true. Yeah was great to see right wing authoritarian types so quickly denounce Snowden and Greenwald as exaggerating chicken littles. Also harping all the US government and media talking points about Snowden being a delusional narcissists who just leaked the information since he wanted to get rich. Even though all their accusations turned true especially the direct access claim since the NSA is doing direct man in the middle attack on big US tech companies while at the time using the PRISM system to claim they are only raiding places like Google using proper judicial oversight. etalian fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 14:54
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etalian posted:Yeah was great to see right wing authoritarian types so quickly denounce Snowden and Greenwald as exaggerating chicken littles. Also harping all the US government and media talking points about Snowden being a delusional narcissists who just leaked the information since he wanted to get rich. It wasn't right-wing types, though. As far as I could tell, every one of them was an Obama-voting liberal Democrat. Really the Snowden revelations have been as demonstrative in pointing out the systemic failings of political tribalism and the western media as they have been in pointing out the excesses of the NSA.
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Oct 31, 2013 15:00
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Tezzor posted:It wasn't right-wing types, though. As far as I could tell, every one of them was an Obama-voting liberal Democrat. Really the Snowden revelations have been as demonstrative in pointing out the systemic failings of political tribalism and the western media as they have been in pointing out the excesses of the NSA. Yeah I guess it's somewhat amusing to see even democrats doing lots of mental gymnastics to justify their support of monster that started to grow exponentially under the Bush administration and also kept growing since Obama thought all the vacuum programs were a good idea.
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Oct 31, 2013 16:01
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We should have all voted for Jill Stein.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:10
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Tir McDohl posted:While I loved Alpha Protocol, I'm not sure what you're referring to. What was the revelation again? Oh, sorry for my lack of clarity, what I meant was that AP itself would be revealed to exist for real.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:16
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Tanith posted:We should have all voted for Jill Stein. Yeah, then we could see what it's like to see a true idealist get crushed even harder by the system.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:38
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Tanith posted:We should have all voted for Jill Stein. I did.  EDIT: hepatizon posted:Yeah, then we could see what it's like to see a true idealist get crushed even harder by the system. Or alternately she digs her heels in and triggers a massive constitutional crisis. It probably wouldn't end well (probably a series of really terrible constitutional amendments that formalize the gutting of civil liberties) but it would make for amazing reading for decades. Farmer Crack-Ass fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 17:39
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Tanith posted:We should have all voted for Jill Stein. All the cool people in my state did 
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Oct 31, 2013 17:43
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The way Homeland Security was throwing money around a couple years ago, you can safely assume any major private infrastructure project of the last 5 years is 'compromised'. By compromised I mean has a piece of equipment connected to a questionable fiber line somewhere at the hub of the network.
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Oct 31, 2013 17:49
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I was thinking, even beyond most of the normal reasons why this is terrible this is an example of the US government covertly and directly loving with some of this country's most visible companies. Like Google is a huge company in terms of both money and influence and the government has no problem hacking their poo poo, and I'd imagine that if you have a financial stake in Google headlines like "NSA Tapping Google" are probably not what you want to see. Not that Google shareholder tears are remotely as bad as the general creation of a secret surveillance state but then again it's just more proof that the NSA seriously doesn't give a poo poo about any other entity, public or private.
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Oct 31, 2013 18:18
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Just a fun aside, but Gellman apparently had to look pretty hard to find somebody with an NSA badge willing to go on record defending the latest revelation about data centers being compromised. John Schindler, the former NSA spook and current Navy War College teacher is a full on Snowden McCarthyite, or maybe an Angletonian. You can read all about it in this delightful post on his blog: http://20committee.com/2013/09/04/snowden-nsa-and-counterintelligence/ Edit: oh and Wikileaks is a Moscow front organization 
selec fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 18:53
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ClancyEverafter posted:Just a fun aside, but Gellman apparently had to look pretty hard to find somebody with an NSA badge willing to go on record defending the latest revelation about data centers being compromised. John Schindler, the former NSA spook and current Navy War College teacher is a full on Snowden McCarthyite, or maybe an Angletonian. You can read all about it in this delightful post on his blog: Snowden was a secret Russian sleeper agent: quote:From nearly the outset I’ve stated that Snowden is very likely an agent of Russian intelligence; this was met with howls of indignation which have died down in recent weeks as it’s become apparent that Ed’s staying in Russia for some time, along with whatever classified materials he had on his person. quote:While there can be little doubt that the damage Snowden has wrought to the US and Allied SIGINT system is nothing less than immense, it will be some time before NSA and the US Government make any public pronouncements on such a touchy matter – not to mention that it will likely be several months yet before the Intelligence Community completes what will surely rank as the Mother of All Damage Assessments. Maybe the damage can be blamed on something else such as creating more aggressive programs without worrying about blowback or assuming such programs would never be discovered? etalian fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 20:22
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The UK's already-tenuous system of press freedom continues to collapse: http://www.cityam.com/article/13831...lines_right_col quote:
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Oct 31, 2013 20:53
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Tezzor posted:The UK's already-tenuous system of press freedom continues to collapse: This is a touchy subject, sure, but you have to keep in mind that a news editor in the UK just plead guilty to hacking into a murder victim's cell phone yesterday. See the Hackgate thread for more info about this kind of stuff.
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Oct 31, 2013 21:03
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Internet Webguy posted:This is a touchy subject, sure, but you have to keep in mind that a news editor in the UK just plead guilty to hacking into a murder victim's cell phone yesterday. See the Hackgate thread for more info about this kind of stuff. So what? Do you think that this decision is necessitated by or has anything whatsoever to do with that?
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Oct 31, 2013 21:10
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Internet Webguy posted:This is a touchy subject, sure, but you have to keep in mind that a news editor in the UK just plead guilty to hacking into a murder victim's cell phone yesterday. See the Hackgate thread for more info about this kind of stuff. The core issue in that case is not that someone reported on the content that was obtained by hacking someone's cell phone but that someone hacked into a cell phone.
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Oct 31, 2013 21:30
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Tezzor posted:So what? Do you think that this decision is necessitated by or has anything whatsoever to do with that? Hmm, good question. Does an industry who has been proven to be flagrantly breaking the law require a regulator? WSWS.org posted:Established by the coalition government in the wake of revelations of “industrial-sized” criminality on the part of Rupert Murdoch’s News of the World, the inquiry has whitewashed evidence of the corrupt relationship between the oligarch, leading politicians, police officers and other public officials. Instead, under the guise of addressing “press ethics and standards,” it established a pretext for greater state control over the media that has major negative ramifications for democratic rights. Meanwhile, Murdoch has escaped any accountability. Source. So, yes, it was inspired by the Levenson inquiry on hacking. Whether it will do any good or just do a better job of sweeping things under the rug remains to be seen. Fuckt Tupp fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 21:44
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I'm starting to hear that "wikileaks is a Russian front" elsewhere, you can expect that talking point to continue gaining traction.
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Oct 31, 2013 22:20
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Tezzor posted:So what? Do you think that this decision is necessitated by or has anything whatsoever to do with that? Is this a joke or just complete ignorance? The royal charter comes from the Leveson enquiry which was started because the news of the world hacked Milly Dowler's phone and then it turned out they were hacking a whole load of other people too.
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Oct 31, 2013 22:23
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Heisenberg1276 posted:Is this a joke or just complete ignorance? The royal charter comes from the Leveson enquiry which was started because the news of the world hacked Milly Dowler's phone and then it turned out they were hacking a whole load of other people too. The separate thread has more good stories such as law enforcement bribery for good story leads but it's pretty much a response to the Murdoch monster getting out of control
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Oct 31, 2013 22:26
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Internet Webguy posted:Hmm, good question. Does an industry who has been proven to be flagrantly breaking the law require a regulator? I don't disagree that some journalistic agencies in the UK have been engaging in illegal hacking, but do you believe that the UK government cares more about that than they do about the Snowden leaks? It seems like existing laws and regulations are perfectly competent at punishing that comparatively negligble invasion of privacy.
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Oct 31, 2013 22:30
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http://www.dw.de/snowden-visited-by-german-parliamentarian-str%C3%B6bele-in-moscow/a-17197702 Snowden was visited by a German opposition leader in Moscow. He might testify against American and British espionage in front of a parliamentary enquiry commission.
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Oct 31, 2013 22:32
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Tezzor posted:I don't disagree that some journalistic agencies in the UK have been engaging in illegal hacking, but do you believe that the UK government cares more about that than they do about the Snowden leaks? It seems like existing laws and regulations are perfectly competent at punishing that comparatively negligble invasion of privacy. The Leveson Inquiry started in 2011 and released their report on needing more press regulation in November of 2012. Snowden didn't leak any documents until May of 2013. I have no doubt that the Snowden leaks helped get certain parties on board with a press regulator that wouldn't have otherwise been, but the ball has been rolling on this long before anyone even knew who Snowden was. Fuckt Tupp fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Oct 31, 2013 |
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Oct 31, 2013 22:38
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Internet Webguy posted:The Leveson Inquiry started in 2011 and released their report on needing more press regulation in November of 2012. Snowden didn't leak any documents until May of 2013. I have no doubt that the Snowden leaks helped get certain parties on board with a press regulator that wouldn't have otherwise been, but the ball has been rolling on this long before anyone even knew who Snowden is. Do you personally believe that this position of monarch-appointed "regulator" is necessary or is going to be beneficial?
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Oct 31, 2013 22:49
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'monarch-appointed' If you don't know anything about the British press or politics please refrain from jumping to conclusions.
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Oct 31, 2013 22:57
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Tezzor posted:I don't disagree that some journalistic agencies in the UK have been engaging in illegal hacking, but do you believe that the UK government cares more about that than they do about the Snowden leaks? It seems like existing laws and regulations are perfectly competent at punishing that comparatively negligble invasion of privacy. You've got your timelines completely backwards. The "comparatively negligible invasion of privacy" has been a huge scandal that potentially involved politicians since 2011 and the talk of something like the charter has been around since way before the Snowden leaks were something anyone knew about. The article Internet Webguy posted showed that they were already working on the charter months before Snowden leaked.
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Oct 31, 2013 23:03
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Peel posted:'monarch-appointed' This is a fair point. The ridiculous, absurd, anachronistic and laughable unelected science zombie merely rubberstamped the Censorer General, she didn't appoint him. I was wrong and am sorry for using the wrong terminology to imply otherwise. Mormon Star Wars posted:You've got your timelines completely backwards. The "comparatively negligible invasion of privacy" has been a huge scandal that potentially involved politicians since 2011 and the talk of something like the charter has been around since way before the Snowden leaks were something anyone knew about. The article Internet Webguy posted showed that they were already working on the charter months before Snowden leaked. The fact that something was a huge scandal doesn't mean it was comparatively negligble compared to a far huger scandal. And I fully I recognize that this process was occurring for many years, and I recognize that its genesis had nothing to do with Edward Snowden. That doesn't render it defensible, nor does it mean that it won't be used to suppress legitimate press freedoms. Tezzor fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Nov 1, 2013 |
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Nov 1, 2013 00:13
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I think, like I said, that the Snowden stuff did change some leadership minds about the approval of a press regulation board, but at this point that's all it is, an approval. I don't have enough information about how it will be set-up to accurately gauge if it will have either positive or negative effects as far as serving it's purpose while still giving journalists leeway to have confidential sources.
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Nov 1, 2013 00:38
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Internet Webguy posted:I think, like I said, that the Snowden stuff did change some leadership minds about the approval of a press regulation board, but at this point that's all it is, an approval. I don't have enough information about how it will be set-up to accurately gauge if it will have either positive or negative effects as far as serving it's purpose while still giving journalists leeway to have confidential sources. I think that you have to have a very, very serious and systemic problem in journalism to be ambivalent about whether or not a really-existing-government approval board would be positive or negative, and frankly the UK hacking scandal doesn't begin to cut it. Pretty recently here in the US, for example, the entire system of mainstream media, from its flagships on down, mindlessly amplified false unsubstantiated claims that ended up costing trillions of dollars, killing thousands of Americans, and causing a decade of abject misery for tens of millions of Iraqis. Despite this, I would not begin to consider the notion that this problem, far more grievous in consequence, should necessitate a ministry of truth to ostensibly stop it from occurring again.
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Nov 1, 2013 02:29
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Seems like you'd just want to, you know, prosecute the people responsible for the hacking instead of imposing restrictions on the press that haven't been necessary since the 15th century. Yeah, hacking is bad and all but I'm deeply loving skeptical about any politician-imposed control of the press.
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Nov 1, 2013 03:06
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Tezzor posted:http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/16818-document-reveals-nsa-monitored-125-billion-phone-calls-in-one-month Sorry for replying to myself but I was curious as to this point so I did some checking. According to the consensus, 12.4 billion calls are made per day, although I can't find the original study demonstrating this claim so take it with a grain of salt. Still, it is substantiated that globally there are 6 billion phone subscribers, so a little over two calls made a day per person on average globally seems plausible. If these numbers are accurate it indicates that the NSA is recording data on roughly one-third of all the telephone calls made on the planet. Tezzor fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Nov 1, 2013 |
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Nov 1, 2013 14:58
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i am harry posted:It seems to me that a lot of the official responses are denials of accusations based on a tiny incongruity in said accusations. This is politics and manipulation 101: they don't want to clearly admit what they did, but for some reason they usually won't outright lie about it, so they'll use misleading language and nitpicking to twist their words so much that they can sound like they're denying it while technically still telling the truth. It's not much different from Obama's assertion that the NSA isn't listening to our phone calls or reading our emails (note that he mentions neither metadata nor collection+storage!). Tezzor posted:The UK's already-tenuous system of press freedom continues to collapse: All it seems to be able to do is require newspapers to apologize to people whose lives they violate and issue corrections to false information they print, with refusals punishable by fines. Not exactly a brutal censorship regime.
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Nov 1, 2013 15:32
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Kid Gloves posted:Seems like you'd just want to, you know, prosecute the people responsible for the hacking instead of imposing restrictions on the press that haven't been necessary since the 15th century. Yeah, hacking is bad and all but I'm deeply loving skeptical about any politician-imposed control of the press. The restrictions are due to the fact that there are known bribes to the police and editors who are literally in bed with politicians. The culture of corruption goes deep within the industry because they have been allowed to get away with these kind of things for so long.
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Nov 1, 2013 19:46
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Here's a neat thing by The Guardian trying to stress why this is important. Like the scroll based auto play, even if my Javascript senses are tingling.
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Nov 1, 2013 20:19
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Internet Webguy posted:The restrictions are due to the fact that there are known bribes to the police and editors who are literally in bed with politicians. The culture of corruption goes deep within the industry because they have been allowed to get away with these kind of things for so long. Isn't bribing police & politicians a crime for anyone over there with its own existing penalties?
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Nov 2, 2013 00:18
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David Simon reaffirming his position on this issue. He's still talking about how minimization is a problem for any investigation. I don't think he's capable of separating SIGINT from a police investigation. A police investigation ends, intelligence gathering never ends. He makes a small statement at the end about how if they were to use it for repression it'd be bad. I really don't get how he can't make the leap that having the capability makes the possibility for use ever more likely. Also he doesn't like Greenwald. Glenn's positions shine through, and that can be annoying, but I think I agree with with Greenwald in his takedown of the idea of impartial journalism. I don't really understand how muckraking became demonized, considering advocacy drives debate. EDIT: It's especially weird considering the leadup to them talking about this issue is him talking about how anti-crime laws are generally a veil for civil control. What are the methods for controlling society, if not information? Weird perspective, in my opinion. Aurubin fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Nov 2, 2013 |
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Nov 2, 2013 01:35
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