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infinitycanvas posted:I have to wonder if it's a good idea to try to compete against Dwarf Fortress, in the same way that it's hard to compete as a new MMO. New MMO comes out, instantly people complain it doesn't have as much content as WoW, which while a bullshit argument, is fair in that there exists an alternative to New MMO with significantly more content: WoW. Dwarf Fortress has been in development for basically a decade. Toady has put his heart and soul into DF, and there's just so much there to do, especially so if you consider Adventure mode. The difference is that you only have to pay for the game once, while MMOs have subscriptions/microtransactions, plus they're generally way bigger timesinks than single player games; you might spend hours and hours playing Dwarf Fortress, but you actually accomplish quite a lot in that time. It's less of a commitment than an MMO, so there's always room for more games.
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Oct 15, 2013 22:24
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Nuclearmonkee posted:DF is continually riddled with terrible bugs that have to be painstakingly worked around. But on the other hand you also miss on the greatest bugs, like dwarves that go to sleep and never wake up or geese laying iron chairs.
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Oct 15, 2013 22:27
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infinitycanvas posted:I have to wonder if it's a good idea to try to compete against Dwarf Fortress, in the same way that it's hard to compete as a new MMO. New MMO comes out, instantly people complain it doesn't have as much content as WoW, which while a bullshit argument, is fair in that there exists an alternative to New MMO with significantly more content: WoW. Dwarf Fortress has been in development for basically a decade. Toady has put his heart and soul into DF, and there's just so much there to do, especially so if you consider Adventure mode. Unlike trying to compete with WoW though, Dwarf Fortress isn't a game with a good ui that lots and lots of people picked up and have a vested interest in continuing. There's no high level dudes keeping you in DF, and the market for a DF-style game certainly isn't saturated.
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Oct 15, 2013 22:30
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So uh, couple things. A: Seems people don't care if another person is in the tile. B: The guy who they're talking about fondly? Is the corpse at their feet.
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Oct 15, 2013 22:33
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I went in without watching any tutorial or whatever and the ingame tips told me everything I needed to know to build my first space station. So that's cool. Then some space worm thingy ate three of my six guys before I shot it down... and then the game crashed 
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Oct 15, 2013 22:39
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Skyl3lazer posted:Unlike trying to compete with WoW though, Dwarf Fortress isn't a game with a good ui that lots and lots of people picked up and have a vested interest in continuing. There's no high level dudes keeping you in DF, and the market for a DF-style game certainly isn't saturated. grancheater posted:But on the other hand you also miss on the greatest bugs, like dwarves that go to sleep and never wake up or geese laying iron chairs. I'm not trying to argue the whole subscription or commitment angle on the MMO thing, what I was getting at is a new release is never going to have as much content as something that's been constantly updated for years. The people who play Dwarf Fortress are not going to bat an eye at Spacebase, because there's nearly no reason for them to play it over DF. How much of the niche is left when you remove all the Dwarf Fortress players?
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Oct 15, 2013 22:44
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infinitycanvas posted:I'm not trying to argue the whole subscription or commitment angle on the MMO thing, what I was getting at is a new release is never going to have as much content as something that's been constantly updated for years. The people who play Dwarf Fortress are not going to bat an eye at Spacebase, because there's nearly no reason for them to play it over DF. How much of the niche is left when you remove all the Dwarf Fortress players? A lot, because a lot of people have wanted to play Dwarf Fortress but that game doesn't have a learning curve, it has an angry man with a sock full of batteries between you and actually enjoying the game. That's why I'm looking forwards to this- similar possibility for shenanigans, but I can tell how to actually play it. I can take less content, because for me, Dwarf Fortress has even less content because I can't access that content, because it's incomprehensible to me. Ugly In The Morning fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Oct 15, 2013 |
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Oct 15, 2013 22:49
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I love how directly they're aping Dwarf Fortress while still doing their own thing. It's clear from the RPS interview that the project lead is passionate about DF. So that's promising. I don't play DF for the fortress sim though, so I hope they don't lean too heavily on the game JUST being about building a space station. In games like this, I want a deeply-layered dynamic narrative generator more than anything. I don't like the squarish aesthetic too much. Can you even build non-square rooms? The asteroids looked especially dumb. I wish they would obscure the voxel tiles with good art, at least. Also, I couldn't tell from the video/screenshots: are there multiple z-levels?
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Oct 15, 2013 22:50
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infinitycanvas posted:I'm not trying to argue the whole subscription or commitment angle on the MMO thing, what I was getting at is a new release is never going to have as much content as something that's been constantly updated for years. The people who play Dwarf Fortress are not going to bat an eye at Spacebase, because there's nearly no reason for them to play it over DF. How much of the niche is left when you remove all the Dwarf Fortress players? But you're wrong about this, a ton of people who play Dwarf Fortress are looking for new experiences within the same genre or more accessible experiences. Like I said previously, Gnomoria, which is WAY more of a direct copy than Spacebase, actually has a lot of support in the DF community. Lots of DF fans have bought and supported that game. The genre is not crowded, DF fans are willing to buy more games within it. There are plenty of people who aren't DF fans who are willing to buy games within the genre. Remember, before Dwarf Fortress there were games like Theme Hospital and Dungeon Keeper that were pretty dang popular. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Oct 15, 2013 |
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Oct 15, 2013 22:53
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Alright so a couple of things after playing it. It is still in an obvious early alpha. There isn't a lot to go around and yet there's enough depth already to keep me entertained for a few hours. I can see where there is going. Corpses and hunks of ore currently have nowhere to go an just poo poo up your station. However it is possible, as I just tested and found out, to just material by luring in derelict ships, killing everyone on board, then either stripping them down for parts or adding them to your glorious collective. 
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Oct 15, 2013 22:55
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Am I missing something or is there no way to pan the camera? My arrow keys aren't doing it nor is moving the mouse to the edge of the screen.
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Oct 15, 2013 23:10
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Len posted:Am I missing something or is there no way to pan the camera? My arrow keys aren't doing it nor is moving the mouse to the edge of the screen. Right-click hold.
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Oct 15, 2013 23:12
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Qwo posted:I love how directly they're aping Dwarf Fortress while still doing their own thing. It's clear from the RPS interview that the project lead is passionate about DF. So that's promising. I don't play DF for the fortress sim though, so I hope they don't lean too heavily on the game JUST being about building a space station. In games like this, I want a deeply-layered dynamic narrative generator more than anything. You can build non-square rooms by not using the room tool. So far I haven't non any extra z-levels yet. I hope they come!
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Oct 15, 2013 23:18
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Orv posted:Right-click hold. Thank you./
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Oct 15, 2013 23:23
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What happens with my building materials when all the nearby asteroids get mined out? Do more come floating along, or do I have to trade or salvage or something?
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Oct 15, 2013 23:33
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Doctor Schnabel posted:What happens with my building materials when all the nearby asteroids get mined out? Do more come floating along, or do I have to trade or salvage or something? At the moment either nothing, or you strip apart derelicts. That's pretty much where the game ends currently, unless I just didn't wait long enough for more to show up.
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Oct 15, 2013 23:35
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There's another Sci-Fi Dwarf Fortress type game out there: RimWorld. Currently being kickstarted, although it's already well funded, and the game is close to alpha as well. But in this case it's set on a planet rather than on a space station.
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Oct 15, 2013 23:38
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It's amazing how much the UI is better than DF. You have pretty much exactly the same verbs and feedback, they're just presented in such a way so as to not appear insane. As a fan of DF, I'm going to buy this as soon as multi level bases are implemented. My favorite part of DF is sculpting extravagant multi-tier plazas.
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Oct 15, 2013 23:54
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infinitycanvas posted:I'm not trying to argue the whole subscription or commitment angle on the MMO thing, what I was getting at is a new release is never going to have as much content as something that's been constantly updated for years. The people who play Dwarf Fortress are not going to bat an eye at Spacebase, because there's nearly no reason for them to play it over DF. How much of the niche is left when you remove all the Dwarf Fortress players? Not really sure what you're saying here - that players of one niche game aren't going to be interested in another title with similar mechanics? As someone who enjoys Dwarf Fortress quite a bit, I'm certainly not averse to trying out new base/fort/dungeon simulations. Besides, the shift in setting alone (not to mention the backing of a well-established dev) should cause plenty of avid DF players to "bat an eye at Spacebase", considering the dearth of sci-fi twists upon Toady's ridiculous formula.
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Oct 15, 2013 23:57
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Dr. Stab posted:It's amazing how much the UI is better than DF. You have pretty much exactly the same verbs and feedback, they're just presented in such a way so as to not appear insane. This is part of what makes all these DF inspired games so promising; Toady can pull UI solutions at some later date from people who know how to design UIs instead of having to shoulder the entire process himself. Additionally, they could be fun in their own right.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:21
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infinitycanvas posted:I'm not trying to argue the whole subscription or commitment angle on the MMO thing, what I was getting at is a new release is never going to have as much content as something that's been constantly updated for years. The people who play Dwarf Fortress are not going to bat an eye at Spacebase, because there's nearly no reason for them to play it over DF. How much of the niche is left when you remove all the Dwarf Fortress players? Also DF has an incredibly hard time attracting new players because it looks like dogshit if you don't know what you're doing and is insanely hard to learn. Games that address both of those may actually draw in new players as well as the large crowed of people who enjoy reading about DF but never actually play it, like me.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:25
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Maarak posted:This is part of what makes all these DF inspired games so promising; Toady can pull UI solutions at some later date from people who know how to design UIs instead of having to shoulder the entire process himself. I highly doubt he actually will though. Toady seems to think his UI is perfect. I'm waiting on a few updates I think before I buy Spacebase. I just can't get into DF at all, so an accessible version really appeals.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:31
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Eh, it's more like he'd rather traipse along coding realistic ransacked city ruins with impaled high priests in the town square than dredge up illegible ten-year-old code for months and turn up with nothing but a slightly different kind of bad at the end.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:34
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Sovietski posted:Definitely this. I know DF sticks with ASCII graphics for a reason (too much work? Actually I don't really know the reason.) But the too-good-for-graphics thing really sucks, I hate having to look at a reference to see what the hell is going on. Going to keep an eye on this one for sure. You can install graphics packs for Dwarf Fortress. They aren't perfect but make the game look more like this:  Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I didn't even think of Dwarf Fortress at all until I saw this thread's title and assumed the DF-9 part of the name was in reference to Double Fine. 
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Oct 16, 2013 00:37
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Is anyone else getting constant, game-breaking bugs? I can't play for more than 3 minutes without a CTD or total system shutdown. I really want to enjoy it but I haven't had a chance yet.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:38
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Mokinokaro posted:I highly doubt he actually will though. Toady seems to think his UI is perfect. I think he just puts fixing the terrible UI very low on his priority list. EDIT: I need to remember to preview and look at what people have posted if I go away from my computer while writing a post.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:41
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Ever had moron pirates dock with your mining offshoot? I have too! Let me show you how you, too, can deal with these idiots in three simple steps!   Presto! In just a few, short minutes you'll have a few easy-to-pick-over corpse for your crew to scavenge.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:41
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infinitycanvas posted:I'm not trying to argue the whole subscription or commitment angle on the MMO thing, what I was getting at is a new release is never going to have as much content as something that's been constantly updated for years. The people who play Dwarf Fortress are not going to bat an eye at Spacebase, because there's nearly no reason for them to play it over DF. How much of the niche is left when you remove all the Dwarf Fortress players? I played DF a lot, I'm going to play this because it's kinda like DF but in space and space is really rad. I'm pretty sure most DF players have a similar train of thought.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:54
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People love management sims, and people love DF because it's insane and has all these mostly coincidental occurrences and stories as a result of being completely batshit. A better controlling and better looking management sim with the same capacity for crazy stories as DF is something a lot of people want. Whether any of the four trillion offshoots that have sprung in the last couple years manage to deliver anything as ridiculous is I suppose a matter for the not-so-distant future.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:58
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So I've been ignoring several derelicts that showed up and sort of clustered together because pirates just LOVED my rear end. I finally broke into all of them and UNLEASHED A PLAGUE OF PARASITES. I have no starbase any more.
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Oct 16, 2013 01:00
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Orv posted:People love management sims, and people love DF because it's insane and has all these mostly coincidental occurrences and stories as a result of being completely batshit. A better controlling and better looking management sim with the same capacity for crazy stories as DF is something a lot of people want. Whether any of the four trillion offshoots that have sprung in the last couple years manage to deliver anything as ridiculous is I suppose a matter for the not-so-distant future. Deadmeat5150 posted:So I've been ignoring several derelicts that showed up and sort of clustered together because pirates just LOVED my rear end. I finally broke into all of them and UNLEASHED A PLAGUE OF PARASITES. I have no starbase any more. This is the first alpha, and we already have crazy awesome stories like this one. I have very high hopes for DF-9
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Oct 16, 2013 01:02
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Deadmeat5150 posted:So I've been ignoring several derelicts that showed up and sort of clustered together because pirates just LOVED my rear end. I finally broke into all of them and UNLEASHED A PLAGUE OF PARASITES. I have no starbase any more. They just wanted some booty!
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Oct 16, 2013 01:02
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I haven't seen it mentioned yet, but JP LeBreton, the Double Fine project lead for this game, did an almost 40 minute long video walkthrough of the current alpha which shows off the game pretty well and the current systems. Useful for anyone thinking about getting it or who just wants to see what the game plays like. You can find it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZX6PXN1G_E or on their homepage at http://spacebasedf9.com/ They plan to do a new video for each new alpha build, walking through the stuff they add. StarkRavingMad fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 01:10
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This thing looks totally rad. Can't wait to get my paycheck at the end of the month so I can buy it without starving to death.
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Oct 16, 2013 01:21
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Deadmeat5150 posted:Ever had moron pirates dock with your mining offshoot? I have too! Let me show you how you, too, can deal with these idiots in three simple steps! Ahh, the FTL methodology. If it isn't already in, I hope they add in the ability to manually open/close airlocks so the players can turn their starbases into the convoluted deathtraps they're obviously meant to be. This really looks promising, and at 20 bucks (with the Psychonauts discount) I'm really tempted to buy it. How good is the music? Is it worth throwing down the extra $4?
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Oct 16, 2013 01:28
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Well not bad but to call itself the Dwarf Fortress of space or whatever? Not that dwarf fortress is playable or even that much fun, but this game feels more like one of these iPad games that you play for a bit, not really like a Dwarf Fortress or even Space Station 13. Might make it more marketable though. It's sad that goons always go "WOAH MUST BUY MUST BUY MUST BUY" at basically every indie or small studio title, it makes it more difficult to part the quality from the noise. E: I mean it does sound awesome and might develop into a real gem but more often than not these completely peter out, let's not forget that. I'm pretty jaded on eternal alphas/betas. I'd love to see a studio or indie guy come forward and say "voila, here's version 1.0. Enjoy! I might add features or bring a new version in the future!" Police Automaton fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Oct 16, 2013 |
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Oct 16, 2013 01:29
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Zoinker posted:Ahh, the FTL methodology. If it isn't already in, I hope they add in the ability to manually open/close airlocks so the players can turn their starbases into the convoluted deathtraps they're obviously meant to be. Doors are manually lockable and can be forced open as well. The music is fairly generic space ambiance currently, I'd hold off. Police Automaton posted:Well not bad but to call itself the Dwarf Fortress of space or whatever? Not that dwarf fortress is playable or even that much fun, but this game feels more like one of these iPad games that you play for a bit, not really like a Dwarf Fortress or even Space Station 13. Might make it more marketable though. It's sad that goons always go "WOAH MUST BUY MUST BUY MUST BUY" at basically every indie or small studio title, it makes it more difficult to part the quality from the noise. It's a quite early alpha, and pretty much everyone playing has said that. It's got some promise, especially if the can implement even 70% of their desired features list, but after tooling around with it for a while more I'd definitely urge people to hold off for the time being.
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Oct 16, 2013 01:32
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 Five minutes into my new station my giant space chicken is eaten by a giant space frog. Did I mention you can rename... everything? Don't like the name of Generic Airlock P? Rename Airlock Dongs.
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Oct 16, 2013 01:47
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Zoinker posted:Ahh, the FTL methodology. If it isn't already in, I hope they add in the ability to manually open/close airlocks so the players can turn their starbases into the convoluted deathtraps they're obviously meant to be. How do you get the discount? Does it automagically figure it out from your Steam library or did you buy it somewhere else?
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Oct 16, 2013 01:55
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This looks amazing. Finally all those hours watching Deep Space 9 will come in handy.
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Oct 16, 2013 02:07
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