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jscolon2.0 posted:We're at least supposed to think that's she outright working for CENTIPEDE and is just a straight up mole for at least a bit, aren't we? What? No. How did you manage to come up with this? I mean, maybe they'll do something dumb and have some double reverse triple plot twist where she is, but there's been absolutely nothing to suggest that she's actually against SHIELD. She had her one suspicious moment when she texted someone "I'm in." early on, but we just found that what that was all about and that she's just looking for info about herself and her parents.
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Oct 25, 2013 04:10
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Billy Idle posted:Just because those paranormal things exist doesn't automatically mean another, different kind of paranormal thing also exists. You might as well use that logic to justify Santa Claus existing in the MCU.
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Oct 25, 2013 04:16
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Psh that'd just be a ripoff of that Darkseid/Santa crossover. 
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Oct 25, 2013 04:20
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VDay posted:What? No. How did you manage to come up with this? I mean, maybe they'll do something dumb and have some double reverse triple plot twist where she is, but there's been absolutely nothing to suggest that she's actually against SHIELD. She had her one suspicious moment when she texted someone "I'm in." early on, but we just found that what that was all about and that she's just looking for info about herself and her parents. I'm not saying her motives right now aren't fairly innocent, just that before they're revealed, we have reasons to doubt her. That "I'm in" stinger at the end of the pilot and that scene in Asset where they tease her outright betraying SHIELD. This may just be years of watching 24 and Alias though, creeping up on me.
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Oct 25, 2013 04:51
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Timett posted:The only time an intro is ever 3+ minutes is on premium cable channels where you aren't watching commercials so I can forgive it. isn't there an unwritten rule that intros have to be less than 1:45?
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Oct 25, 2013 05:07
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mind the walrus posted:I was a little more bothered by the whole "Skye is our family and she betrayed us" moments. It's five episodes in, and the cast does not have the chemistry Buffy or Firefly did to justify acting like their all so bonded with each other this early on. They're glorified co-workers that happen to live together at this point. I agree, they're forcing it. For some reason it bothers me that everyone just calls two separate people one name pretty much all the time. A nickname like that should be 'earned' by the characters and come later in the show. I get that they have a history together and are basically inseparable but they're still clearly two different people and not like, twins that talk in unison or something outlandish enough to justify the nickname. The whole cast could be believably bonded by now, but the show is too episodic and formulaic for that to have happened yet. Not saying episodic and formulaic is necessarily bad. But they haven't really been put through the wringer yet emotionally, and the tone of the show is that everyone is cool calm and collected (considering their situation) 95% of the time. Doesn't lead to "we've been through so much together" like I figure people will buy readily later in the season. There are connections between certain pairs but I think the feel they're going for in some scenes requires that everyone be connected with everyone. I don't think Fitz and Skye have even had a one on one conversation yet. Though I took Fitz being hurt that Skye didn't say anything about her boyfriend as a sign he has a bit of a crush on her. Though this would be the first suggestion of that which I can remember. And yeah, I wouldn't be too surprised if we see Scorch again. He has fire powers, he might have like, redirected the energy of the explosion or something. If we never see him again though that's fine too, since he was clearly shown to not be in full control of his powers and no longer innately protected from the fire he controls.
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Oct 25, 2013 05:56
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Metropolis posted:Though I took Fitz being hurt that Skye didn't say anything about her boyfriend as a sign he has a bit of a crush on her. Though this would be the first suggestion of that which I can remember. He had a sort of goony moment in the second episode where he talked about how the only bunk left on the plane was the one next to his. I think that the "he has a crush on her" interpretation is the one we're supposed to get from that scene but, as you say about the whole "how could she betray us?" thing, it feels kind of unearned.
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Oct 25, 2013 06:13
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Vendictus Prime posted:has anyone read whether or not we might see hero cameos in the show, except for the occasional Nick Fury? I would think they would make some story tie ins when the new movies get close to coming out. Speaking of which, after catching the Winter Soldier trailer the spying/search and seizure/surveillance vibe of this show could present interesting plot elements if characters other than Skye start objecting to SHIELD's methods. I find it kind of funny that May waited until Skye was done having sex before busting her.
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Oct 25, 2013 09:03
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Yeah the Winter Soldier trailer makes SHIELD look like some real sons of bitches, especially if the senator that Fury is chummy with is Dell Rusk....
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Oct 25, 2013 11:08
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I think Ward is next in line for a backstory infusion. So far, we've learned that he had a dickish older brother, and in the first episode Coulson said something about his "family history" that he kind of bridled at. I wouldn't be surprised if his older bro was in Hydra-pede.
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Oct 25, 2013 15:54
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al-azad posted:Speaking of which, after catching the Winter Soldier trailer the spying/search and seizure/surveillance vibe of this show could present interesting plot elements if characters other than Skye start objecting to SHIELD's methods. I find it kind of funny that May waited until Skye was done having sex before busting her. maybe she just likes to watch. but seriously though, you are right about the whole spying on the public feel to the show. I guess they are trying to make a political statement that way. ( no, hollywood wouldn't do that, would they?) Vendictus Prime fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 25, 2013 16:09
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Metropolis posted:I don't think Fitz and Skye have even had a one on one conversation yet. There was the scene where Fitz was trying to cheat Ward at poker by having Skye read his cards with the x-ray specs which implied that they'd been talking together earlier. They could have shown the scene where Fitz and Skye came up with the scheme which would have told us a lot more about how they interact when they're not in the middle of a mission (Was Fitz trying to show off his cleverness to Skye or did he approach Simmons first and she refused? Was he trying to win one over Ward for some specific reason or was he just the only mark available? Did Skye think he was a putz straight away and just go along with the plan for shits and giggles? Or did Skye come up with the plan and talk Fitz into it?) but instead the writers went for the obvious "I'll be able to see you nude!" joke and then had Skye check out Ward with the glasses when they'd already put in at least a dozen hints at the sexual tension between those two. They could have told us a whole bunch about what Fitz and Skye think about each other and the rest of the crew but instead they served up some witty banter.
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Oct 25, 2013 16:53
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jivjov posted:We're 5 episodes in to a 20+ episode season, and they've been hinting at Skye having something up since the 2nd episode. So how much earlier do you want it brought up? Pre-release? I want to know why I should get behind a character in a tv show, especially if they're about to get crunched down by the procedural machine. The characters on Person Of Interest still were secretive at the end of the pilot, but I knew their big motivations for being in the show itself. You know everything you need to know about Buffy Summers in the pilot too. "I'm entering SHIELD because they redacted my life and my parents from history" is something that needed to be in the pilot.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:18
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Vendictus Prime posted:maybe she just likes to watch. Judging by the "Captain America: Winter Soldier" trailer, there's tension between Cap and Fury along just these lines, with Cap siding with the justice and freedom camp while Fury is more concerned about stopping bad things before they happen at any cost. Maybe this series is an oblique setup for that.
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Oct 25, 2013 17:33
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Yannick_B posted:"I'm entering SHIELD because they redacted my life and my parents from history" is something that needed to be in the pilot. Not necessarily, especially if you wanted her trustworthiness to be any sort of a plot point.
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Oct 25, 2013 18:25
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Is there a thread, in Cinema Discusso, for the new Thor movie coming up? I looked but not seeing one.
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Oct 26, 2013 19:04
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Vendictus Prime posted:Is there a thread, in Cinema Discusso, for the new Thor movie coming up? I looked but not seeing one. So far discussion seems to be happening in the general comic book movie thread.
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Oct 26, 2013 19:12
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Who the hell writes the scripts for this show? 90% of that last episode was awful cliches, I mean lines like 'how could she do that to us? I thought she was our friend' were said with a straight face. Is it written by a dog that learned english from TV soaps? Does a machine design a basic script into which is inserted the hatful of generic zingers and callbacks that joss whedon drops by in his lunch break? This is a AAA show in budgetary terms but its scripts and plots are so much loving worse than any comparable show, like Warehouse 13, Eureka, Arrow, all of which are made on far lower budgets. What is the deal here, seriously?
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Oct 26, 2013 20:02
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FirstPersonShitter posted:Who the hell writes the scripts for this show? 90% of that last episode was awful cliches, I mean lines like 'how could she do that to us? I thought she was our friend' were said with a straight face. People keep bringing this up and don't seem to recognize it's being said by the two most immature and socially awkward members on the entire team. The other three more normal members have your more typical reactions. Coulson is pissed because he gave her a chance, Ward is pissed because he was right, and May is just like 'whatever'.
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Oct 26, 2013 20:28
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DFu4ever posted:People keep bringing this up and don't seem to recognize it's being said by the two most immature and socially awkward members on the entire team. But there were so many other awful lines in the episode, spoken by all manner of characters.
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Oct 26, 2013 20:43
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Writing team: Joss Whedon (The Avengers, Firefly, Buffy the Vampire Slayer) Jed Whedon (Dr Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog, Dollhouse) Maurissa Tancharoen (Dr Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog, Dollhouse) Jeff Bell (The Protector, Alias, Angel, The X-Files) Paul Zbszewski (Hawaii Five-0, Lost) Monica Breen (Revolution, Fringe, Lost, Alias) Brent Fletcher (Spartacus: War of the Damned, Deception, Angel) Lauren LeFranc (Hemlock Grove, Chuck) Rafe Judkins (Hemlock Grove, Chuck) Shalisha Francis (Castle) 5th episode and I still can't remember a characters name beyond Skye and Colsen. I'm done. The actors need more chemistry and the team needs to feel more like Agents and less like the A-team. The only way I'll come back is if they get the rights back from Fox and make season two be about the agency vs Latveria. A whole season of Dr.Doom spinning any win they have into a loss via press conferences and propaganda. I wish the show the best of luck.
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Oct 26, 2013 20:44
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FirstPersonShitter posted:Who the hell writes the scripts for this show? 90% of that last episode was awful cliches, I mean lines like 'how could she do that to us? I thought she was our friend' were said with a straight face. My guess is that ABC and marvel alike are breathing down everyone's necks and as a result we're getting bland scripts because that's the only kind that everyone can mostly agree on. Still, Whedon shows do take a while to get going. That said this is easily the second worst opening crop of episodes from a Whedon production. I'm with it for the rest of the season but it needs to step things up a notch in terms of the scripts. Give us real characters, not archetypes.
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Oct 26, 2013 20:51
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mind the walrus posted:
Joss Whedon is not running this show. Jed Whedon and his wife are.
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Oct 26, 2013 21:01
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It's just so bland and awful. Everything is paint-by-numbers and nothing really pops at all. There are a couple of good lines per episode but there is 0 chemistry between the team which is a really bad thing in an ensemble cast show like this. All the plots so far have been dull as dishwater. I'm always willing to stick with a show that I think has even a little promise, but this is just bad. Arrow had a rough start but came into its own pretty fast. It's not the best written show ever but the cast works and it's entertaining and dumb. Which is what I had hoped for from Agents of SHIELD, as superhero comics are dumb and entertaining too. But nope. Then if you compare it to something really top notch like person of interest agents of shield just looks like a big ol bag of turds.
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Oct 26, 2013 21:10
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I'm guessing/hoping that the chemistry will improve once we start seeing the characters actually become characters. For whatever reason, the showrunners opted to wait until the 5th episode to start developing the main character, so hopefully we will start getting some real meat soon. Also, we should probably stop making excuses for the show. This isn't some freshman effort from a small company working with a fresh, new idea. The world was established for them, the formula (team of protagonists who are getting to know each other) has been done successfully plenty of times, everyone making the show has worked on numerous other successful series, and they have the backing of one of the biggest studios in the world. I'm sticking with it until the end, but I am REAAALLY hoping things improve soon because I don't think I know a single person in real life that enjoys this show or is watching anymore outside of my parents.
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Oct 26, 2013 21:27
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Timby posted:Joss Whedon is not running this show. Jed Whedon and his wife are. I know that. That's why I said Whedon production and not Joss Whedon. It's being produced by Joss' company, so calling it a Whedon production is completely correct.
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Oct 26, 2013 22:18
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ToastyPotato posted:Also, we should probably stop making excuses for the show.  you're kidding right? All three threads this show has had has been non-stop bitching about this show. We are 5 episodes in, and that's hardly enough to write off a show completely yet people continue to do so. Yes, it's not the best thing ever right now. Could it get better? Definitely. I am very tired of people, complaining about how this show sucks when we are still barely out of the gate.
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Oct 26, 2013 22:40
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LeafyOrb posted:
I'm not really kidding and I explained why pretty thoroughly in the part you removed from the quote. A nice chunk of the complaints have been pretty valid so far, or are you saying this show deserves every Emmy? Is it ok to admit that this show is far from perfect? Like really far? Is that allowed? Maybe we shouldn't have a thread until episode 10? Maybe 12? When do we get to discuss the flaws of a show we are watching?
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Oct 26, 2013 23:27
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Honestly a lot of things people are complaining about don't bother me. I'm enjoying this show because it's fun and campy and takes place in the Marvel universe. Do you realky want to see the MCU take itself super seriously? Mind you, I'm not saying this is a great, it's not. But it's fun to watch and has some pretty original plots so I'll keep watching.
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Oct 26, 2013 23:29
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They really just need to work on the cast and chemistry. The big reason I keep coming back to whedon productions is that the cast and chemistry are good to great. A lot of things like cheap sets, mediocre plots, and bland cinematography can and have been forgiven because of that. I'm not saying the cast here has no chemistry at all, but they need to start playing them off each other for reasons other than plot and finding some sparks.
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Oct 26, 2013 23:37
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ToastyPotato posted:I'm not really kidding and I explained why pretty thoroughly in the part you removed from the quote. A nice chunk of the complaints have been pretty valid so far, or are you saying this show deserves every Emmy? Is it ok to admit that this show is far from perfect? Like really far? Is that allowed? Maybe we shouldn't have a thread until episode 10? Maybe 12? When do we get to discuss the flaws of a show we are watching? I'm not saying we can't discuss the show's flaws, I'm just saying that if you think people have been making excuses for the show then we have not been reading the same thread. People came out and said this show sucks after Episode 1, hell the first thread got closed because of stupidly negative and ridiculous everyone was being. And as I said I don't this show is good yet either, so I have no idea where the Emmy remark comes from.
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Oct 26, 2013 23:42
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^^^ The first episode was pretty flawed and deserved plenty of criticism though? There is a difference between actually criticizing something, which is what the bulk of the negative posts have been, and just hating something, which very few have been. I'm willing to bet what makes this discussion so toxic is the people crying about the negativity and starting arguments over it, as opposed to the actual points being made in the criticisms themselves. I didn't see much that was over the top negative. People thought a lot of the writing was weak, and the performances were weak, and that the cinematography was weak. The biggest issue I saw was people refusing to read the thread and basically making the same word for word post as ten other people about things they didn't like, which is awful, I will admit. That's more a post quality issue rather than a criticism issue though. Which is my point. Anyway, I'd place a bit of the blame on chemistry with the writing. If the show had some better scripts the actors might have a bit more to work with. Right now it seems like they are painfully trying to write characters to type rather than writing for their cast, which is a bit of a dumb mistake for a production of this level. Like I said though, now that an honest motivation for one of the characters has finally been revealed, maybe we will start seeing eps where the writers can start gelling and let momentum grant them the moments we're looking for. ToastyPotato fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 23:42
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I feel like I've watched five different versions of the pilot so far.
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Oct 26, 2013 23:56
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Seams posted:I feel like I've watched five different versions of the pilot so far. Well put. This is what I wanted to say but couldn't find the words. They've been ok to good pilots so far, but I have yet to feel like the show itself has properly started. It came close with the Graviton ep, but still mostly set up.
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Oct 27, 2013 00:05
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The show has been pretty bland, but I'll keep watching it because superheros.
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Oct 27, 2013 00:06
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It's far from the worst thing I've enjoyed in the Marvel cinematic universe. That's my barometer: if I find I'm less interested in it than in The Incredible Hulk, I'll know it's time to consider reclaiming that one hour per week.
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Oct 27, 2013 00:11
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Seams posted:I feel like I've watched five different versions of the pilot so far. I feel like I've watched five different versions of this argument so far.
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Oct 27, 2013 01:35
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Rarity posted:I feel like I've watched five different versions of this argument so far. I feel like I have five different things to spend my time on than get into any version of this argument, but just so I'm not being a complete rear end in a top hat, I'll make a quick contribution here. No one is wrong for liking or hating this show. Those are feelings; they happen and they hit people differently. Unfortunately, each opinion expressed -- positive or negative -- comes with this implication, whether it's intended or not, that people who hold different opinions are idiots. In other words, I feel like these arguments stem from a general insecurity about our own tastes. I know I feel like a dipshit whenever somebody trashes a show I like. It's not that person's fault; it's just how I'm wired, for better or worse. Maybe I'm off base, but if I'm right, the question is: What do we do about that? It's easy to say "If you don't like it, don't watch it" or "Stop letting your self-worth revolve around how people feel about your favorite TV show," but let's be honest with ourselves: Neither statement is that simple. We can hate a TV show and still be drawn to it for whatever reason. And someone's self-worth won't necessarily revolve entirely around their favorite TV show, but maybe just enough of it does to make that person feel uncomfortable for about a half-hour per day. After all, part of how we define ourselves is through the media we like or dislike, right? I don't have any real answers, in fact I'm not entirely sure this post wouldn't be a better fit on loving Tumblr, but I think we can at least agree on one thing: we should all take a step back, breathe, and count to ten.
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Oct 27, 2013 02:24
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Melinda May is a cool character and I like every scene she's in.
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Oct 27, 2013 02:44
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DivisionPost posted:I feel like I have five different things to spend my time on than get into any version of this argument, but just so I'm not being a complete rear end in a top hat, I'll make a quick contribution here. The solution is simple and several people have already expressed it. If you make reasoned criticism like "I really didn't like this character's acting/I wish they spent more time developing their motivations/I wish the mysteries weren't progressing so slowly/this particular line of scene or line of dialog felt particular forced because of this reason", that leaves room for people to make a reasoned counter-argument if they disagree. It also feels less like an attack and is less likely to offend. If, instead, you just say "Agents of SHIELD sucks this show is trash", then yes, you're likely to offend people. Even if you don't offend people, you don't leave them many ways to respond other than by making a another inflammatory response. That's why people call it called "lovely posting". The problem isn't whether people like or hate the show, it's whether or not they're an rear end about it, and I feel like most of the posts so far have been fine.
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Oct 27, 2013 02:48
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