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TOOT BOOT posted:Is this just a young person thing? I wouldn't say TV is better now, it's just reflective of a different society. There has been a huge upswing in the quality of TV on all levels now, including several series that are really cinematic in quality or better. A lot of this has to do with the fact that TV companies are taking more risks with less censorship, in the box formulas and also key, not pushing for 22 episode seasons. Game of Thones? 10 episode seasons. Breaking Bad? The last season was split up to 8 episodes a year. The list goes on from there. It allows for less filler and way more focus, in particular in heavily serialized shows. So yes, while there have been many great shows over TV's history, there is a general "golden age of TV" sentiment now and with very good reason... TV shows have stopped feeling trapped by being on TV. EDIT: It's interesting to consider a TNG in the modern format; half as many episodes with twice the budget and more than twice the production time each, with a focus on the best episodes instead of worrying about meeting a full syndication order worth. Kibayasu posted:They tried to do it a few times though they never really did do that many big fights with the Battlestars themselves so the examples are pretty sparse no matter what. The most obvious example I can think of fairly was nonsensical, in that episode where Lee commands the Pegasus for the first time he orders it to "roll over" so the Basestars can't hit their damaged topside but then still head straight for the nearest Basestar. I guess no one can move up or down but still flip over. If BSG cut out all that "They have a plan" and mystery building bullshit, it would have been one of the best sci-fi series. That stuff irked me so bad it soured a lot of my feelings on the series, despite immensely enjoying seasons 1-3. The later parts had some good stuff but way, way, way too much, well.. like I said, bullshit. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 11:42
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They just forgot to plan how they were going to finish BSG and it got far too caught up in itself, unfortunately. It was gradually becoming more and more fantastic but peaked in early season 3, and after they left New Caprica it started the slow decline.
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Oct 23, 2013 12:37
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Hyperriker posted:They just forgot to plan how they were going to finish BSG and it got far too caught up in itself, unfortunately. It was gradually becoming more and more fantastic but peaked in early season 3, and after they left New Caprica it started the slow decline. I think because it was time to start resolving things then, and answering questions, and instead they just started asking even more questions, with things being introduced only to be entirely dropped, forming huge plot holes in the process. That and they kept creating new plot threads only to completely drop them within 1-3 episodes at a lightning pace. It's obvious they had no idea how to handle the ending. What I find amusing is a lot of people blame it as "not knowing where they wanted to go" but from listening to the Breaking Bad podcasts, one thing that struck me is how much their writers often did the same thing; but the reason it pulled together is they'd go back to old episodes, events, characters and situations and go "How can we use this plot detail to make something interesting happen? Where can we go with this?" And thus, they kind of connect the dots backwards in a satisfying way. In other words had they spent more time trying to build answers based on the actual clues they dropped (even if they didn't know where they were going when they dropped said clues) I think it'd been far more satisfying than having random stuff thrown at us until the very end. Instead we got the one of the worst finales and I don't even know what the hell they did to Baltar by the end. I don't use the expression "Pulled out of their rear end" much, but.. I agree though that there was enough awesome stuff in the show to totally warrant a series watch, including a badass sountrack, but it's frustrating that it came so close to greatness and then tripped.
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Oct 23, 2013 12:47
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This is why B5 will always stand above BSG for me. JMS actually had the thing planned out and knew where he was going with everything. The show was clearly his masterpiece, and minus the studio fuckery would have been even better than it was. BSG on the other hand starts with a good idea and then goes off the rails because no one has any idea where anything is going. If anything the planned arc of B5 is far more emblematic of the current "golden age" of television than anything BSG did. BSG had fewer episodes per season and better CGI but it ultimately leaves me feeling empty at the end.
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Oct 23, 2013 14:03
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I liked the ending of BSG.  And I'd rather re-watch BSG than re-watch any part of Voyager.
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Oct 23, 2013 14:15
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The ending of BSG is great. They get to Earth and it's a barren nuclear wasteland. Awww yeah.
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Oct 23, 2013 14:32
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:The ending of BSG is great. They get to Earth and it's a barren nuclear wasteland. Awww yeah. Agreed. Although I didn't mind Daybreak either. Probably because I have bad taste.
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Oct 23, 2013 14:34
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B5 was outstanding in a lot of ways, and it's remarkable that it was made on what was, comparatively, a shoestring budget, and has had the lasting power that it has. That being said, the series suffered a bit from Boring Human Characters. The only really interesting characters (who were, thankfully, SO interesting that they made the show worthwhile) were the ambassadors and their attaches, or some of the guest stars. Andreas Katsulas, Peter Jurasik, and Mira Furlan made that show.
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Oct 23, 2013 14:56
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I've been meaning to get off my rear end and finally watch B5 or BSG. I've seen a bit of the original BSG but that's about it. If I had to start with either B5 or BSG, which would you guys recommend?Drone posted:Back to Trek though, last night I started to read this on a total lark, largely because it has an exclamation point in the title, and because it's only like 130 pages long so why not:
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Oct 23, 2013 15:00
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I think another huge strike against Babylon 5 being remade today would be that at heart B5 actually has a pretty sweet and sappy heart. G'Kar, for all his rage against the Centauri and his utter arrogance before the Shadows tipped the scales, turns out to be a big romantic lunkhead. Mollari, for all his cynicism and decadence, is consumed by his naive nostalgia for a Centauri renaissance that probably wasn't quite as much as it was cracked up to be. John Sheridan. Marcus. I actually disagree with this because I think we're on an upswing, in terms of what you're talking about. People are getting tired of cynicism in their pop culture, so you're getting shows like Parks and Recreation, where honest belief in something is actually allowed. Even Breaking Bad is, I think, a turn away from the kind of cynicism you're talking about.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:14
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DirtyRobot posted:I actually disagree with this because I think we're on an upswing, in terms of what you're talking about. People are getting tired of cynicism in their pop culture, so you're getting shows like Parks and Recreation, where honest belief in something is actually allowed. Even Breaking Bad is, I think, a turn away from the kind of cynicism you're talking about. Parks and Recreation is great but is getting lovely lovely ratings, while a show like Walking Dead which is all cynicism is getting amazing ratings.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:16
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Drone posted:B5 was outstanding in a lot of ways, and it's remarkable that it was made on what was, comparatively, a shoestring budget, and has had the lasting power that it has. You are confusing not seen before and quirky with interesting. Garabaldi was a recovering alchoholic who got poo poo on LOADS during the series. But survives and is better. Ivanova came from a hosed up family caused by Psycorp, secret lesbian, borderline Russian psycho. Talia was a fresh newbie telepath, who then became more and more less trustworthy of the people who raised her from birth. BESTOR! Sure the doctor, Sinclair and Byron were mono-tone droning actors, but the rest weren't.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:22
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Apple Jax, you should go with Babylon 5. It's more Treklike than Galactica, by leaps and bounds, so there's none of that depressing cynicism which bogs BSG down every two or three episodes. And Walter Koenig is in it once in a while.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:28
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The Dark One posted:nobody eats meat I really wish people would stop saying this. Nobody kills animals. They replicate meat. Re: B5, I feel really bad for people who have never experienced Peter Jurasik, Mira Furlan, or Andreas Katsulas give some of the best-acted scenes in the history of television.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:35
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Drone posted:Back to Trek though, last night I started to read this on a total lark, largely because it has an exclamation point in the title, and because it's only like 130 pages long so why not: Basically because 1970. This book was written at an amazing time in Star Trek history, between 1969 and 1979. There was literally only the 3 seasons of TOS to go on, and fans obsessed over them and discussed them and thought about them as robustly as we do the entire canon now. But there was so little to go on that their speculations went to some very different places. Nowadays you can go on Memory Alpha and so many of the gaps are filled in. We know a lot about future history from the 20th century to the 24th, and alien societies. But there was something magical about those days, when there were a lot less rules and knowledge and people were freer to imagine what Earth society was like, what happened between the Eugenics Wars and Kirk's time, the history of the Vulcans and Klingons, etc. The trick to watching B5 is to watch it like classic Doctor Who. You have to ignore the sets and special effects and try to appreciate the stories. But even unlike classic Doctor Who: sunday at work posted:This is why B5 will always stand above BSG for me. JMS actually had the thing planned out and knew where he was going with everything. The show was clearly his masterpiece, and minus the studio fuckery would have been even better than it was. BSG on the other hand starts with a good idea and then goes off the rails because no one has any idea where anything is going. ...B5 has a modern serialized story to it. B5 is like if you took a modern show with great writing and plugged it into 1970s style production. Like if BSG TOS had the same writing and some of the same acting as  . Watch it like that and you'll enjoy it more.
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Oct 23, 2013 15:36
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rypakal posted:I really wish people would stop saying this. Nobody kills animals. They replicate meat. Replicated meat isn't real meat. 
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Oct 23, 2013 15:39
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Apple Jax, you should go with Babylon 5. It's more Treklike than Galactica, by leaps and bounds, so there's none of that depressing cynicism which bogs BSG down every two or three episodes. And Walter Koenig is in it once in a while. Neat, I forgot that Koenig ended up in that show. Anyone know if Babylon 5 will come to Netflix streaming anytime soon? Or, do I haveta ante up and use hulu or buy the DVDs like an animal?
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Oct 23, 2013 15:44
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:I'm going to link this again. Short Babylon 5 CGI clip from the people who also worked on the new Battlestar Galactica. Apple Jax posted:Neat, I forgot that Koenig ended up in that show. Anyone know if Babylon 5 will come to Netflix streaming anytime soon? Or, do I haveta ante up and use hulu or buy the DVDs like an animal?
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Oct 23, 2013 15:51
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DrSunshine posted:Replicated meat isn't real meat. I shall try some of your burned replicated bird meat.
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Oct 23, 2013 16:22
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happyhippy posted:You are confusing not seen before and quirky with interesting. It's ashame none of them can act though. Seriously, the reason the public largely doesn't know of B5 is the same reason it doesn't have an (active?) thread even here; it's objectively awful, and I'm not just don't talking about the goofy CGI that fans (read: apologists) desperately try to defend either, I mean the acting, the tone, the trash direction - the only thing B5 did right was continuity between episodes, and deciding to go widescreen. Besides that, it's literally The Room levels of assgravy. (Also gently caress anyone that says it gets better after captain eyebrows leaves, I watched hours of that crap for nothing  )The Star Trucks has a massive share of dumb/mediocre poo poo but I don't think any one episode dips down into B5 levels of lameness. (No, not even threshold  )e: Though the Roddenberry-esque creepy goonlord stories about the writer were pretty funny, I guess.
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Oct 23, 2013 16:47
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Angel One does. I say that with my combined distaste of the Red Sox and Cardinals.
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Oct 23, 2013 16:55
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BurnBlackJay posted:It's ashame none of them can act though. Seriously, the reason the public largely doesn't know of B5 is the same reason it doesn't have an (active?) thread even here; it's objectively awful, and I'm not just don't talking about the goofy CGI that fans (read: apologists) desperately try to defend either, I mean the acting, the tone, the trash direction - the only thing B5 did right was continuity between episodes, and deciding to go widescreen. Besides that, it's literally The Room levels of assgravy. (Also gently caress anyone that says it gets better after captain eyebrows leaves, I watched hours of that crap for nothing Yes sir, your opinions are, in fact, objective facts.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:01
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Spock's Brain, Code of Honor. There's some absolute poo poo in Trek.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:04
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Spock's Brain loving rules if you don't like it you have no katra.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:09
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Code of Honour is the only Star Trek episode I have never fully watched, I think I've never seen past the part with Tasha on the Holodeck. I should probably finish it.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:11
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BurnBlackJay posted:It's ashame none of them can act though. Seriously, the reason the public largely doesn't know of B5 is the same reason it doesn't have an (active?) thread even here; it's objectively awful, and I'm not just don't talking about the goofy CGI that fans (read: apologists) desperately try to defend either, I mean the acting, the tone, the trash direction - the only thing B5 did right was continuity between episodes, and deciding to go widescreen. Besides that, it's literally The Room levels of assgravy. I unfortunately agree with this. B5 has some great concepts and awesome moments, but they are few and far between. Literally none of the people not wearing makeup can act, the set design makes it look like a college production, the CGI is awful, the much-touted continuity takes about twice as long to unfold as it should, and it's burdened with the double whammy of 90's sci-fi writing and being a post-cold-war show and showing it. It has an excellent identity as a show and some good ideas make it onto the screen, but the execution is just so awful that it's nearly impossible to watch alongside any other sci-fi of the era. Seriously, the people touting it sound like Blake's 7/Original BSG defenders.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:13
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Spock's Brain is bad but I think mostly people claim it's The Worst Trek based on reputation. It's dumb for sure, but at least watchable. poo poo like And the Children Shall Lead or Miri is so much worse.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:15
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Zonko_T.M. posted:Also Gary 7 is the worst Star Trek episode and a show based on it would've been awful. Just saying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omm16abxjYI
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Oct 23, 2013 17:17
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Apple Jax posted:Neat, I forgot that Koenig ended up in that show. Anyone know if Babylon 5 will come to Netflix streaming anytime soon? Or, do I haveta ante up and use hulu or buy the DVDs like an animal? I think Seasons 1 & 2 of Babylon 5 can be streamed for free on The WB site.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:17
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AnxiousApatosaurus posted:Spock's Brain is bad but I think mostly people claim it's The Worst Trek based on reputation. It's dumb for sure, but at least watchable. poo poo like And the Children Shall Lead or Miri is so much worse. Isn't Miri the one where a teen falls in love with Kirk?
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Oct 23, 2013 17:19
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Which episode is it that has Space Lincoln? As for all the B5 comparisons it's difficult for me to say, but it does seem to have a sort of meta-mythology around it, as did Firefly, which I don't think Trek ever developed-- the closest you could come would probably be the directors being idiots on Voyager and telling the hew-mons to act less so the aliens would stand up more. Which is a bit strange, I would think, since TOS did have that Firefly/other popular sci fi show pop back in the late 60s, with the letter writing campaign and everything.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:24
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I didn't say Spock's Brain wasn't awesome, I just said it was poo poo. I find that Babylon 5's many tremendous flaws are outweighed by it's successes.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:27
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Nessus posted:Which episode is it that has Space Lincoln? AnxiousApatosaurus posted:Spock's Brain is bad but I think mostly people claim it's The Worst Trek based on reputation. It's dumb for sure, but at least watchable. poo poo like And the Children Shall Lead or Miri is so much worse.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:29
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I'm going to be a TOS redshirt this Halloween. I have all my gear and the shirt, as well as a pair of black pants... but I'm missing some boots. Where can I get some boots fit for a TOS uniform that isn't going to break the bank? Doesn't have to be 100% accurate, this is just Halloween and not serious cosplay. DrSunshine posted:I said this in the last thread, but a show about the early days of human space colonization, with a "pioneer" spirit and a sense of adventure and scientific progress would be a great "realistic" space sci-fi show. You could have lots of sciencey exploration with manned missions to Europa, Titan, Jupiter and Mars, and lots of adventure and intrigue with space colony/Earth politics, corporations mining the asteroid belt, and pioneer groups building O'Neill cylinders in fringes of the Solar System. It'd be optimistic because it presumes a future where people have risen above earthly problems like Climate change and are freely exploring the solar system, but also realistic because it'd take in all the concerns and conflicts of a pioneer society. I really wish this was a show. It really wouldn't work as a Star Trek show though as Trek isn't very realistic at all, and Zefram Cochrane developed warp drive INSANELY EARLY (like, in this century early) and they skipped past O'Neil Cylinders and asteroid mining and went straight to interstellar travel. It's kinda needless to say that warp \ Alcubierre drive probably isn't possible, and if it is, there's no loving way it's going to be developed by 2063. We'll be lucky if we're able to replace chemical rockets and be able to affordably leave low earth orbit by 2063. Nessus posted:Which episode is it that has Space Lincoln? The Savage Curtain, and I really like that one because IT HAS loving ABE LINCOLN IN SPACE. Blazing Ownager posted:There has been a huge upswing in the quality of TV on all levels now, including several series that are really cinematic in quality or better. A lot of this has to do with the fact that TV companies are taking more risks with less censorship, in the box formulas and also key, not pushing for 22 episode seasons. I kind of feel like TV is going through a Golden Age and Hollywood movies have gone to poo poo... although maybe I'm just nostalgic for the movies of the 70's and 80's, I dunno. GET IN THE ROBOT fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 17:38
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Gammatron 64 posted:I'm going to be a TOS redshirt this Halloween. I have all my gear and the shirt, as well as a pair of black pants... but I'm missing some boots. Where can I get some boots fit for a TOS uniform that isn't going to break the bank? Doesn't have to be 100% accurate, this is just Halloween and not serious cosplay. Aw yeah! Shoe chat returns! I loving love Aerosoles boots have worn them with a TOS uniform and that WoK uniform I've got. They're comfortable, reasonably priced, simple looking and good for just normal not halloween wear too. But, now that I think of it, maybe Aerosoles is more just for women's shoes? Gonna wear them with my TNG uniform for halloween this year! You can also try zappos.com where you'll definitely find men's shoes. EDIT: Found some that look drat close for $60 here  Apple Jax fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 17:46
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I thought Savage Curtain would be ridiculous from the presence of Space Lincoln, but looking at its summary it sounds like a decent TOS episode, and I suppose now we know why 'emissary' gets thrown around so much in later series too.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:48
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Nessus posted:I thought Savage Curtain would be ridiculous from the presence of Space Lincoln, but looking at its summary it sounds like a decent TOS episode, and I suppose now we know why 'emissary' gets thrown around so much in later series too. I can't watch this episode without thinking about that Venture Brothers episode with the ghost Lincoln and cracking up and then wanting to watch the Venture Bros. episode because it is objectively better, and somehow makes more sense. That being said, when TOS is awesome, it is some of the best stuff ever on TV. I was rewatching the Doomsday Machine and the TOS evil mirror universe episode the other night. No matter how many times I watch good TOS, it is always awesome and I always get caught up in the story. I love Kirk and Scotty on the torn up, busted rear end hulk, of the Constellation just barely saving the Enterprise from the Maw of Doom because Scotty duct taped a phaser and one impulse engine together. That is just some tense awesome TV, throw in the mad, heartbroken, Commodore and it's perfect.
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Oct 23, 2013 17:56
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Blazing Ownager posted:If BSG cut out all that "They have a plan" and mystery building bullshit, it would have been one of the best sci-fi series. That stuff irked me so bad it soured a lot of my feelings on the series, despite immensely enjoying seasons 1-3. The later parts had some good stuff but way, way, way too much, well.. like I said, bullshit. Yeah the worst part is when it was all said and done, they tried to retcon that whole thing to "No really, we HAD a plan!!!!" and it ended up being even worse. Though I suppose I should be thankful that they gave Anders and Simon starring roles in The Plan because there were times that they just disappeared from the series outright (especially Trucco at the end because of that car accident). Drone posted:B5 was outstanding in a lot of ways, and it's remarkable that it was made on what was, comparatively, a shoestring budget, and has had the lasting power that it has. I don't think the boring part was by design, but more of an adjustment made by JMS based on the fact that he had some lovely actors to work with. Imagine if you replaced the cast of B5 with the cast of BSG, I think the series looks a whole lot different since you have a much better cast overall and can give people beefier stories. BurnBlackJay posted:It's ashame none of them can act though. Seriously, the reason the public largely doesn't know of B5 is the same reason it doesn't have an (active?) thread even here; it's objectively awful, and I'm not just don't talking about the goofy CGI that fans (read: apologists) desperately try to defend either, I mean the acting, the tone, the trash direction - the only thing B5 did right was continuity between episodes, and deciding to go widescreen. Besides that, it's literally The Room levels of assgravy. (Also gently caress anyone that says it gets better after captain eyebrows leaves, I watched hours of that crap for nothing Yeah I don't care about the CGI, to me the directing in the effects shots is pretty good and even if the renders looked dodgy even in the 90's, they were at least trying to go for something with more realism. The problem with B5 boils down to a bad cast and having poor production design, cinematography, and music. There's a reason why I enjoy the hell out of TOS despite it being 60's as hell, and that's because it actually looks really good despite facing some of the same money issues (part of this is because they shot half the episodes on random sets that were already built for other shows or movies). They got really great stage actors to guest on the show every week and having a not-yet lazy as gently caress and hammy Shatner as a lead helped elevate a lot of the material. Gammatron 64 posted:I kind of feel like TV is going through a Golden Age and Hollywood movies have gone to poo poo... although maybe I'm just nostalgic for the movies of the 70's and 80's, I dunno. A lot more money is going towards TV because there are diverse revenue streams and the gap between television and cinema has closed due to HD production and home entertainment systems. They're a lot more free to take risks because the veil of censorship has kind of lifted. Technology has also allowed even smaller productions like sitcoms the ability to create a very cinematic look. Meanwhile in movieland theaters are struggling to get asses in seats and this has led studios to take way less risk and bank everything on existing franchises. bobkatt013 posted:Parks and Recreation is great but is getting lovely lovely ratings, while a show like Walking Dead which is all cynicism is getting amazing ratings. Parks and Rec is a sitcom on NBC aka the last place network, The Walking Dead is a genre show with a HUGE marketing push behind it, you really can't compare the ratings at all.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:31
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Apple Jax posted:Aw yeah! Shoe chat returns! Thanks! You know, it's funny, I didn't realize that boots are so expensive since I never buy them as I live in a place that never gets snow. I wonder if I can find something below $40 at the Halloween store. Also, it's funny, I thought the TOS boots were higher up, but after looking at a photo, they're about that tall. I guess my Diamond Select figures aren't totally accurate. I'm kinda torn if I should just stuff my pants down the boots or actually hem a pair of black pants so that they're pretty short like the actual TOS uniforms. I dunno if I want to wreck a pair of nice pants. Maybe I can just go out and buy a cheap pair of pants.
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Oct 23, 2013 18:37
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Well, the pants on TOS are just black navy bell bottoms. So go steal some uniforms from a naval base and dye 'em, I think it should be pretty easy to get in if you act like you belong there. L'audace, toujours l'audace, as Napoleon would say. 
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Oct 23, 2013 18:46
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