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MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?

Doltos posted:

Which will most likely happen in the NFL anyway.

Yeah but at least he'd be paid for it.

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Ehud
Sep 19, 2003

football.

AAA DOLFAN posted:

Too small and bad blocker. Wait a minute I said this exact thing last year about Jordan reed didn't i

;)

You also could have said that about Hernandez, who is only 6'1".

I love Burton. If he was part of a competent offense, he'd be discussed more as a legit NFL prospect.

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

Manziel is almost certain losing Mike Evans so that probably increasing his likelihood of declaring.

Tony Pauline posted:

Texas A&M red-sophomore Mike Evans, also a week three riser, turned in another dominant performance on Saturday, with Auburn victimized this time around. Evans numbers were a jaw-dropping 11 receptions, 287-yards and 4 touchdowns. Sources close to the program told me late last week word is Evans will enter the draft. If true don’t be surprised if he’s the first receiver off the board next April.

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌

MourningBoo posted:

Yeah but at least he'd be paid for it.

Paid more for it.

Ozu posted:

Manziel is almost certain losing Mike Evans so that probably increasing his likelihood of declaring.

Evans is gonna be a unique prospect because I feel like half of his catches come from grabbing a floater while standing perfectly still with 3 defenders around him 5 seconds after the ball is snapped. He doesn't seem fast or quick at all, at least NFL fast for WRs. He might legitimately be the heir to Mike Williams.

The Puppy Bowl
Jan 31, 2013

A dog, in the house.

*woof*
Awesome thread, not that I expected any less.

I'm desperately in love with Jordan Matthews so your comparison to James Hardy scares the poo poo out of me. Also would be pretty ecstatic over picking up Jenkins but most likely the Ravens let Oher hit free agency and go after a tackle. At least it's a deep position group.

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

Doltos posted:

Evans is gonna be a unique prospect because I feel like half of his catches come from grabbing a floater while standing perfectly still with 3 defenders around him 5 seconds after the ball is snapped. He doesn't seem fast or quick at all, at least NFL fast for WRs. He might legitimately be the heir to Mike Williams.
It'll be interesting to watch the top WR prospects for me since the prevailing talk* is the Jets adding weapons on offense. Right now I think I'd prefer Marqise Lee as the more polished route runner, although he seems to have the injury flags coming up.

*They'll end up drafting defense

Props Department
Jul 10, 2007

creamed corn & confucius

jeffersonlives posted:

Manziel has certainly indicated in both behavior and words that he will, but things can change and you're right in that it's unusual that all of the talked about underclassman actually do declare in any given. Probably worth noting that Bridgewater as a true junior is no more of a lock than these three to declare either.

Bridgewater is getting his Sports Management degree after this semester and has evinced no intention of using his last year of eligibilty. Anything can happen but he's as good as gone

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌

The Puppy Bowl posted:

Awesome thread, not that I expected any less.

I'm desperately in love with Jordan Matthews so your comparison to James Hardy scares the poo poo out of me. Also would be pretty ecstatic over picking up Jenkins but most likely the Ravens let Oher hit free agency and go after a tackle. At least it's a deep position group.

If Bewbies is anything like me then comparisons are always done to players on the collegiate level, not how their careers turned out in the NFL. When I say that Hundley plays like Kaepernick that doesn't automatically crown Hundley. Same goes for how Matthews is being compared to Hardy, it doesn't condemn him.

Ozu posted:

It'll be interesting to watch the top WR prospects for me since the prevailing talk* is the Jets adding weapons on offense. Right now I think I'd prefer Marqise Lee as the more polished route runner, although he seems to have the injury flags coming up.

*They'll end up drafting defense

Lee is my favorite WR right now but I wouldn't put Watkins, Evans, or Lee in the top 15. I feel like people are just trying to find faults in Lee's game because he does everything so well right now. They're right about injury concerns though, as Lee's knee is troublesome. It will affect him as a player if he loses a step.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."

Props Department posted:

Bridgewater is getting his Sports Management degree after this semester and has evinced no intention of using his last year of eligibilty. Anything can happen but he's as good as gone

I think the perception of Bridgewater has been fairly steadily slipping as the season went along to where a lot of people are now considering him just in a group of good but not great top quarterbacks and not the top quarterback. That was probably inevitable because he's never been a real elite prospect, but it does mean that he might be better off waiting the year. It's still early in the process even for stay/go talks, which is the entire point, especially after a series of better prospects like Luck, Bradford, and even Locker returned "unexpectedly."

Scionix
Oct 17, 2009

hoog emm xDDD
Just curious, where do you guys find the injury grading for prospects? For instance, I can't remember the last time CJ Mosely was too banged up to play, but he's got "serious injury risks" on the evaluation. Is this all a result of that nasty-rear end tackle from the 2011 Natl. Championship?

Which is not to say that's wrong, I'm just curious what the standards are for being "healthy." I remember this cropped up last year when I watched Eddie Lacy drop to like the third round because of that (what I thought was) minor turf toe.

saphojunkie
Nov 5, 2004

You'll be dancing, alright. Inside the flame!
Chiefs fans are so confused at not being able to look at the top five guys and just have their pick of the worst one.

Brannock
Feb 9, 2006

by exmarx
Fallen Rib
I've always been skeptical of those players who are like "well he doesn't really have a real position, but holy poo poo he sure is an athlete." When was the last prospect like that to actually pan out as a NFL player?

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Doltos posted:

That's what ticks me off about this years draft. It looks extremely deep but guys like Bridgewater can easily go back if they get ruminations that Mariota might go ahead of them.

Which is silly because the way that the way that draft slotting works is you're not going to miss much from going from the #1 pick to the #4 pick (assuming a team doesn't just panic and trade up to #2).

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Brannock posted:

I've always been skeptical of those players who are like "well he doesn't really have a real position, but holy poo poo he sure is an athlete." When was the last prospect like that to actually pan out as a NFL player?

Percy Harvin although that was less "he doesn't have a real position" and more "he's stuck between two positions". If you can do something (run real fast, catch, block, whatever) then you can carve a place out for yourself even if you don't fit into the traditional WR/TE/RB/QB/OL mold.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

God Marqise Lee is so perfect for the Chiefs but he'll never drop.

The Chiefs should trade up for this guy but guess what we already gave away our second.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."

Declan MacManus posted:

Which is silly because the way that the way that draft slotting works is you're not going to miss much from going from the #1 pick to the #4 pick (assuming a team doesn't just panic and trade up to #2).

It's not necessarily the 1 to 4 drop that's the problem. Geno Smith looked like a pretty strong bet to go 1st overall in 2013 really up through February, and even until draft day people thought he'd go top ten, and he ended up going 39th. And one of his top rivals in the early and middle parts of the draft process in Barkley ended up as a third day pick. The motto of the draft process should be "poo poo happens" if you can't plausibly have "generational prospect" at something or another attached to you.

bewbies
Sep 23, 2003

Fun Shoe

Brannock posted:

I've always been skeptical of those players who are like "well he doesn't really have a real position, but holy poo poo he sure is an athlete." When was the last prospect like that to actually pan out as a NFL player?

Brad Smith and Hines Ward are probably the best examples. Can probably say the same thing about Aaron Hernandez or Clay Matthews.

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌
I'd definitely point at Aaron Hernandez as the latest one. Harvin was another tweener between HB and WR, but thankfully no one talked him into becoming a HB.


Scionix posted:

Just curious, where do you guys find the injury grading for prospects? For instance, I can't remember the last time CJ Mosely was too banged up to play, but he's got "serious injury risks" on the evaluation. Is this all a result of that nasty-rear end tackle from the 2011 Natl. Championship?

It's extremely hard to pinpoint actual injury concerns as teams will keep that under the tightest wraps. Usually you have to glean that information from what other pundits are saying, as some of them have good inside scoops. Also you can look at the player and see if he's slowed down or hesitant, that usually means injury. Clowney is definitely playing with some sort of leg injury this year even though South Carolina won't come out and say it.

GOOD TIMES ON METH
Mar 17, 2006

Fun Shoe
Randall Cobb probably fell into the 'Athlete' category as well if I am remembering his Kentucky career correctly

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Goetta posted:

Randall Cobb probably fell into the 'Athlete' category as well if I am remembering his Kentucky career correctly

quote:

Cobb played collegiately at the University of Kentucky. During his freshman year was named to the SEC All-Freshmen team at Quarterback playing in 11 games and starting 4 at quarterback. He scored 2 throwing, 2 receiving, and 7 rushing touchdowns during his freshman year.

In his sophomore season, he played mainly at the wide receiver position but, also played a significant role in the offense/special teams returning kicks, place kick holding, receiving, and also performing the quarterback role in the "Wildcat" formation, and scored 4 receiving, 1 returning, and 10 rushing touchdowns during the 2009 season.

He also caught, passed for, and rushed for a touchdown in the same game. That said I think he was projected to play wide receiver in the pros pretty early on.

Grozz Nuy
Feb 21, 2008

Welcome to Moonside.

Wecomel to Soonmide.

Moonwel ot cosidme.

kiimo posted:

God Marqise Lee is so perfect for the Chiefs but he'll never drop.

The Chiefs should trade up for this guy but guess what we already gave away our second.

And now you're 7-0. You're welcome. :colbert:

Anyway, I'm gonna have to try to watch more Florida and TCU because I like the sound of both Purifoy and Verrett for the Niners. I already see a good amount of Oregon and definitely would be excited if we landed Ekpre-Olomu.

Coldforge
Oct 29, 2002

I knew it would be bad.
I didn't know it would be so stupid.
^^^^ Purifoy is absolutely my #1 pick for the Niners this year.

Coldforge posted:

I'm keeping an eye on Jordan Mathews (Vanderbilt) and Brandon Coleman (Rutgers) at WR, Loucheiz Purifoy (Florida) and Quandre Diggs (texas) at CB.

Would love to see your evaluation of WRs Jared Abbrederis (Wisc) and Dres Anderson (Utah), Bewbies.

Coldforge fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Oct 24, 2013

Alfred P. Pseudonym
May 29, 2006

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss goes 8-8

Really hoping the Cowboys can get a safety (still not sold on Wilcox or Church), a guard, and some d-line depth. Maybe an OLB since Carter has looked so bad this year but that may just be a scheme issue, it's hard to say.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Grozz Nuy posted:

And now you're 7-0. You're welcome. :colbert:

Anyway, I'm gonna have to try to watch more Florida and TCU because I like the sound of both Purifoy and Verrett for the Niners. I already see a good amount of Oregon and definitely would be excited if we landed Ekpre-Olomu.


That trade wasn't worth it for Alex Smith. But if you pretend that Marcus Cooper was part of the trade it's a steal.

Pron on VHS
Nov 14, 2005

Blood Clots
Sweat Dries
Bones Heal
Suck it Up and Keep Wrestling

kiimo posted:

That trade wasn't worth it for Alex Smith. But if you pretend that Marcus Cooper was part of the trade it's a steal.

Pretending is awesome. I like to pretend that Justin Houston was our 1st round pick two years ago and Jon Baldwin was our 3rd rounder.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Just look at it as two second rounders to stabilize the offense. don't focus on the how or why or who

The 7th Guest
Dec 17, 2003

jeffersonlives posted:

I think the perception of Bridgewater has been fairly steadily slipping as the season went along to where a lot of people are now considering him just in a group of good but not great top quarterbacks and not the top quarterback.
Perception is not really that important and the post-season cycle will really determine where his value is. Everyone scouting Bridgewater knew that Louisville was not going to face top competition this year. He's had only one middling game this year against Rutgers and that'll get broken down and zaprudered plenty I'm sure.

Coldforge
Oct 29, 2002

I knew it would be bad.
I didn't know it would be so stupid.

kiimo posted:

That trade wasn't worth it for Alex Smith. But if you pretend that Marcus Cooper was part of the trade it's a steal.

In my mind, it was Alex Smith + Marcus Cooper for two 2s + Glenn Dorsey. Pretty even, I think.

Dr. Foom
Jul 5, 2007

I have approximate knowledge of many things.
The Raiders could take just about anyone with their first round pick and I'd be pleased as punch.

Ok, not Manziel.

LiquidFriend
Apr 5, 2005

Grittybeard posted:

I love these every year, thanks Bewbies.

I heard some color guy going off on James Franklin last week (yes the week that he didn't play) about how he was going to be playing on Sundays. Do you see any chance of this/understand where he was coming from? Because I do not, even though I really like the guy.
No idea where they are getting that idea from. He isn't particularly impressive as a thrower and his running style isn't going to work at all in the NFL.

Grozz Nuy
Feb 21, 2008

Welcome to Moonside.

Wecomel to Soonmide.

Moonwel ot cosidme.

Quest For Glory II posted:

Perception is not really that important and the post-season cycle will really determine where his value is. Everyone scouting Bridgewater knew that Louisville was not going to face top competition this year. He's had only one middling game this year against Rutgers and that'll get broken down and zaprudered plenty I'm sure.

A lot will probably depend on what level of team Louisville plays in their bowl game and how Bridgewater performs then. That's his best opportunity to face a more credible team and defy that criticism, at least to a degree.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."

Quest For Glory II posted:

Perception is not really that important and the post-season cycle will really determine where his value is. Everyone scouting Bridgewater knew that Louisville was not going to face top competition this year. He's had only one middling game this year against Rutgers and that'll get broken down and zaprudered plenty I'm sure.

Perception of Bridgewater's place within the draft class is absolutely important if we're talking about whether he's a lock to come out.

ZenVulgarity
Oct 9, 2012

I made the hat by transforming my zen

If a team has a number of holes and at least a decent quarterback, does it behoove them to trade down from a top pick for more lower firsts and upper seconds? Or do you take a generational or elite talent?

I'm thinking more giants and Steelers.

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌

Coldforge posted:

^^^^ Purifoy is absolutely my #1 pick for the Niners this year.

I think the success rate of Florida defensive players is like 2 in 65

Coldforge
Oct 29, 2002

I knew it would be bad.
I didn't know it would be so stupid.

Doltos posted:

I think the success rate of Florida defensive players is like 2 in 65

The Niners already have Ray McDonald and Nick Moody, so I guess they've maxed out their allotment :eng99:

Still want him.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Coldforge posted:

In my mind, it was Alex Smith + Marcus Cooper for two 2s + Glenn Dorsey. Pretty even, I think.

Has Glenn been playing well?

He was never a good fit for out defense. I see he has two sacks this year. That's half his career total in KC.


edit: sorry for the derail.

quote:


On Wednesday, ESPN.com’s Mike Sando wrote a blog theorizing the 49ers could switch from a 3-4 defense to a 4-3 defense at some point in the distant future. With all due respect to Sando, the 49ers’ defense already is a 4-3 defense. They just use 3-4 personnel.

First of all, the 49ers use a classic four-man defensive line more than 65 percent of the time, in their sub packages. On base downs, the 49ers use a nose tackle, but that does not mean they use a 3-4. In a 3-4, the nose tackle lines up directly over the center in a zero-technique position, and the ends line up on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackles in a five-technique position – creating three “bubbles” at the line of scrimmage. The 49ers don’t do this.

The 49ers base defense is a 4-3 Under, a variation of a four-man line. The defensive ends are not five-techniques. The ends are reduced, or “eagled down,” over the outside eye of the guards to three-techniques, and the outside linebacker – Aldon Smith – essentially is a stand-up defensive end.

The nose tackle is a one gap player. He lines up between the center and guard in one-technique position. The strong safety usually plays the eighth-man-in-the-box concept, even from depth, just so nobody along the front has to be a two-gap defender.

Glenn Dorsey, the 49ers’ newest defensive tackle, played five-technique for the Chiefs and was not successful, but the 49ers will not ask him to play five-technique. They’re going to ask him to play three-technique or one-technique, classic 4-3 positions, the positions he played in college.

Coldforge
Oct 29, 2002

I knew it would be bad.
I didn't know it would be so stupid.

kiimo posted:

Has Glenn been playing well?

He was never a good fit for out defense. I see he has two sacks this year. That's half his career total in KC.


He's been fantastic. PFF's highest rated player on the Niners' defense, I think.

Edit:

Coldforge fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Oct 24, 2013

Grozz Nuy
Feb 21, 2008

Welcome to Moonside.

Wecomel to Soonmide.

Moonwel ot cosidme.

kiimo posted:

Has Glenn been playing well?

He was never a good fit for out defense. I see he has two sacks this year. That's half his career total in KC.

Dorsey's taken over the starting NT job since Ian Williams went on IR and has occasionally rotated in at DE. He's done quite well for us so far, considering the value of his contract I'm very pleased with the signing.


Coldforge posted:

The Niners already have Ray McDonald and Nick Moody, so I guess they've maxed out their allotment :eng99:

Still want him.

Moody was from FSU, I believe.

The 7th Guest
Dec 17, 2003

jeffersonlives posted:

Perception of Bridgewater's place within the draft class is absolutely important if we're talking about whether he's a lock to come out.
Mmm I have bad news for every QB prospect to ever declare then; that poo poo doesn't end until your name is called on draft day. Remember the debate of whether Indy should take RG3 instead of Luck? Even with the generational talent, there's intentional clouding.

Scouts are trying to pick apart Clowney right now until there's nothing left, questioning his toughness and his effort level and his 'motor'. But that's not a reason he should stay in school for another year. It just means the bullseye on his chest is bigger because he has a bigger profile as a top pick in the draft.

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Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Quest For Glory II posted:

Mmm I have bad news for every QB prospect to ever declare then; that poo poo doesn't end until your name is called on draft day. Remember the debate of whether Indy should take RG3 instead of Luck? Even with the generational talent, there's intentional clouding.

Scouts are trying to pick apart Clowney right now until there's nothing left, questioning his toughness and his effort level and his 'motor'. But he's still going to be the #1 pick unless something crazy happens.

"Perception" means where he's supposed to go; if he's not supposed to go high then he won't declare.

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