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If the Vikings had the chance to take Mariota or Bridgewater and took Mariota I'd probably shoot someone.
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Oct 26, 2013 21:04
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Gendo posted:If the Vikings had the chance to take Mariota or Bridgewater and took Mariota I'd probably shoot someone. We took Ponder over Kaepernick. It wouldn't surprise me. EDIT: Does anyone think Manziel has any chance to succeed in the NFL? I admit I've seen nothing but highlights of him, but it seems like given his small stature and reliance on scrambling and pulling plays out of his rear end he'll be a bust. The stuff he does in College doesn't seem like it would fly in the pros. Also he's intensely unlikable and I want him to fail. Yaws fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 21:20
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Gendo posted:If the Vikings had the chance to take Mariota or Bridgewater and took Mariota I'd probably shoot someone. For whatever its worth, Peter King says at least two teams have Mariota over Bridgewater on their boards. And Mariota is going to put up impressive combine numbers. And we're going to hear a lot about ~*potential*~ because Bridgewater has been around longer, isn't a great athlete, and everyone assumes he's not going to improve much over what he is now. Unless a team with the top pick falls in love with Bridgewater, there's a good chance Mariota could go ahead of him. Now where the justifiable homicide comes into play is when people start asking whether Zach Mettenberger should be the top QB Yaws posted:We took Ponder over Kaepernick. It wouldn't surprise me. He needs to get much more accurate on deep passes. He's also one of the rare cases where "coachability" is a legitimate issue, because Manziel holds onto the ball way too long because he knows he can escape defenders and pull off big runs. This won't fly in the pros. And its very hard to gauge just how accurate he really is in Sumlin's plug and play QB system, especially when he has a gigantic receiver to throw to all game. Emanuel Collective fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Oct 26, 2013 |
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Oct 26, 2013 21:26
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Zach Mettenberger is all arm, no brain. If you want that I'm sure you could offer up a conditional seventh for Tyler Bray.
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Oct 26, 2013 21:28
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I just hope the Texans draft Derek Carr
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Oct 26, 2013 21:28
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Declan MacManus posted:Zach Mettenberger is all arm, no brain. If you want that I'm sure you could offer up a conditional seventh for Tyler Bray. For whatever it's worth every report I've heard is that Andy really likes him. So probably a conditional 6th at least.
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Oct 26, 2013 21:28
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It's nice being in week 8 and having no idea what your team will draft. I guess DE if Johnson walks (he will).Emanuel Collective posted:For whatever its worth, Peter King says at least two teams have Mariota over Bridgewater on their boards. And Mariota is going to put up impressive combine numbers. And we're going to hear a lot about ~*potential*~ because Bridgewater has been around longer, isn't a great athlete, and everyone assumes he's not going to improve much over what he is now. Unless a team with the top pick falls in love with Bridgewater, there's a good chance Mariota could go ahead of him. The Gabbert effect.
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Oct 27, 2013 03:33
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Lot of good names in this draft. Jackson Jeffcoat definitely died at gettysburg
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Oct 27, 2013 04:35
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Yaws posted:Also he's intensely unlikable and I want him to fail.  Eifert Posting posted:It's nice being in week 8 and having no idea what your team will draft. I guess DE if Johnson walks (he will). This'll be less of a need if Montgomery ends up signing with you guys.  Emanuel Collective posted:And its very hard to gauge just how accurate he really is in Sumlin's plug and play QB system, especially when he has a gigantic receiver to throw to all game. Isn't this basically the same complaint that's been given to Stafford/Dalton/whomever for the past couple of years?
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Oct 27, 2013 05:51
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Stafford and Dalton aren't that accurate. They also aren't guys who would be a good return for a high first round draft pick.
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Oct 27, 2013 06:28
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A team should be happy with Stafford imo
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Oct 27, 2013 06:48
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Inaccurate is like the bottom of the list for complaints about Dalton. He continues to improve and he's putting up some nice numbers, not sure how many teams would be disappointed with his production if he was a first rounder.
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Oct 27, 2013 07:20
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Stafford and Dalton aren't that accurate. They also aren't guys who would be a good return for a high first round draft pick.
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Oct 27, 2013 07:27
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Rap posted:A team should be happy with Stafford imo Gareth Gobulcoque posted:Inaccurate is like the bottom of the list for complaints about Dalton. He continues to improve and he's putting up some nice numbers, not sure how many teams would be disappointed with his production if he was a first rounder. Yup. Any team that can't win with Stafford isn't a good team and in OC who can't build a decent offense around Dalton isn't worth his job.
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Oct 27, 2013 14:14
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bhsman posted:
Its a different kind of complaint. Manziel uses Mike Evans as his security blanket for when Manziel holds onto the ball too long and busts up the ball too long. He'll throw off his back foot or on the run but luck out because Mike Evans is nearby. Guys like Calvin Johnson bail qbs out sometimes too, but they arent crutches for bad habits
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Oct 27, 2013 17:55
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Quest For Glory II posted:A single first round draft pick would be fair value for Stafford. We already know what the value for a QB with elite tools is because Cutler was dealt for two first round picks and a 3rd. A first round pick, by itself, is not going to get an elite QB, if we're talking trade. Cutler also had 3 years left on his rather large but still undervalued rookie contract which had it's signing bonus paid out and was bundled with a 5th by a team he basically held hostage. Seriously what people are worth in a trade is much more about if they're on rookie contracts, how many years left they have, and then how good they are. It's about value over or under cap hit, which Cutler crushed because broncos were stuck with the dead money from his bonuses, which the bears paid for with draft picks. Every trade is a snowflake.
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Oct 28, 2013 05:01
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Declan MacManus posted:Zach Mettenberger is all arm, no brain. If you want that I'm sure you could offer up a conditional seventh for Tyler Bray. On a related note, I was looking at hilariously early mock drafts last week and so many of them had the Browns taking Mettenberger or Manziel. All of them justified their pick with "Lol Browns're dumb" in many more words. 
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Oct 28, 2013 16:29
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Quest For Glory II posted:A single first round draft pick would be fair value for Stafford. We already know what the value for a QB with elite tools is because Cutler was dealt for two first round picks and a 3rd. A first round pick, by itself, is not going to get an elite QB, if we're talking trade. Wait you say a first round pick isn't going to get an elite QB yet you say Stafford is worth one first. If you think Cutler has "elite tools" and Stafford doesn't I don't know what to tell you. Stafford is a better quarterback than Cutler.
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Oct 28, 2013 16:35
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I don't think that Stafford is a better quarterback than Cutler, no. And no one has Cutler's arm.
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Oct 28, 2013 17:17
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So how badly did Trey Millard's draft stock fall with his ACL injury? I had been reading 3rd round earlier in the season but I think it's tough to tell how much teams value fullbacks.
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Oct 28, 2013 17:19
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Doltos posted:Clowney is definitely playing with some sort of leg injury this year even though South Carolina won't come out and say it. This is from pages ago, but Clowney himself has already said he's got some bone spur issues in his foot and will likely need a procedure after the season to fix it up. After this weekend's game he said he probably won't be playing totally healthy and feeling great the rest of the year but will keep on playing. I wonder if he winds up having to miss workouts/combine and if it will cause him to drop too far. I'm a huge homer, but I can certainly see how this season may have people thinking he's falling. Those people aren't really watching how he affects plays where he's not getting a stat out of it, but still...
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Oct 28, 2013 17:56
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warheadr posted:This is from pages ago, but Clowney himself has already said he's got some bone spur issues in his foot and will likely need a procedure after the season to fix it up. After this weekend's game he said he probably won't be playing totally healthy and feeling great the rest of the year but will keep on playing. I wonder if he winds up having to miss workouts/combine and if it will cause him to drop too far. I'm a huge homer, but I can certainly see how this season may have people thinking he's falling. Those people aren't really watching how he affects plays where he's not getting a stat out of it, but still... Eh that would maybe be true of later round prospects but there are many cameras on Clowney for a reason. Scouts watch every single play for a prospect like him, whether he records a stat on the play or not. Not producing because you're consistently getting double or triple teamed while they run the ball away from you is a good thing, not a knock.
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Oct 28, 2013 18:17
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I thought I already posted this but my impression of Barr from a few games is he just seems too small. Very skinny, listed at 248 but who knows. I think he will have to bulk up.
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Oct 28, 2013 19:14
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Stafford and Dalton aren't that accurate. They also aren't guys who would be a good return for a high first round draft pick. Lumping Stafford and Dalton together is nuts. One has NFL tools and one doesn't.
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Oct 28, 2013 20:47
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mcmagic posted:Lumping Stafford and Dalton together is nuts. One has NFL tools and one doesn't. Both have been successful at the NFL level though. How can you say one has NFL tools and one doesn't?
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Oct 28, 2013 20:53
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How on earth does this stupid Stafford vs Dalton conversation come up so often? Also I don't know what it is now but going into this week Dalton was like 7th in completion percentage sooooo
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Oct 28, 2013 21:04
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Benne posted:University of Washington chat: Pretty much agreeing with all of this. Price will probably be an UDFA, or a 5-6th rounder at best. He'd never be anything more than a backup. Austin Seferian-Jenkins hasn't had any off-field problems since the DUI as far as I know. He's got less character concerns than the last UW Tight End to be drafted in the first round (haha ). Seferian-Jenkins is massive and speedy. Can't wait to see him light it up at the combine.Seahawk-chat, I would imagine they'll try to get some OL with supposedly how deep that position is this year and our lack of depth that has us relying on Paul McQuistan and Breno Giacomini. Of course, considering their last two drafts and their rather odd 1st picks (Bruce Irvin and Christine Michael), I have no idea what their strategy will be.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:04
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Declan MacManus posted:Both have been successful at the NFL level though. How can you say one has NFL tools and one doesn't? QB's without NFL tools are successful at the pro level all the time. See Alex Smith. He's just the latest one.
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Oct 28, 2013 21:28
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mcmagic posted:QB's without NFL tools are successful at the pro level all the time. See Alex Smith. He's just the latest one. uh...
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Oct 28, 2013 23:18
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Alex Smith had good-ish tools, he was a combination of declaring too early (because that year's QB class was considered bad), and landing in a horrible situation. No one here was more critical of Smith than me early on, especially in 2006-2007, when people thought he turned a corner (albeit, with Norv) when he really just played a horrible schedule.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:31
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please stop responding to mcmagic how many times must it be said
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Oct 28, 2013 23:34
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Eifert Posting posted:It's nice being in week 8 and having no idea what your team will draft. I guess DE if Johnson walks (he will). Isn't the fact the Michael Johnson will be leaving the reason they drafted Margus Hunt this year? I am all for more great defensive ends, but the secondary needs help more than the d-line.
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Oct 28, 2013 23:36
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Kim Jong Il posted:Alex Smith had good-ish tools, he was a combination of declaring too early (because that year's QB class was considered bad), and landing in a horrible situation. No one here was more critical of Smith than me early on, especially in 2006-2007, when people thought he turned a corner (albeit, with Norv) when he really just played a horrible schedule. Regarding that year's draft; I only recently started following the NFL, but how on earth did Alex Smith end up going 1st overall that year? From everything I've seen NFL scouts seem to hugely favour QBs with the prototypical physical skills (big arm, quick release etc) that give them a high ceiling. How did someone like Smith who is regarded as a relatively weak armed game manager go above Aaron Rodgers, who has one of the best arms and best throwing mechanics of anyone in the league? I know Rodgers got to sit for a few years and Smith had a procession of offensive coordinators, but surely Rodgers had to be considered as someone with a higher ceiling?
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Oct 28, 2013 23:52
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Ouroboros posted:Regarding that year's draft; I only recently started following the NFL, but how on earth did Alex Smith end up going 1st overall that year? From everything I've seen NFL scouts seem to hugely favour QBs with the prototypical physical skills (big arm, quick release etc) that give them a high ceiling. How did someone like Smith who is regarded as a relatively weak armed game manager go above Aaron Rodgers, who has one of the best arms and best throwing mechanics of anyone in the league? I know Rodgers got to sit for a few years and Smith had a procession of offensive coordinators, but surely Rodgers had to be considered as someone with a higher ceiling? Believe it or not Smith looked like he had a plus arm. I think his arm strength is a little underestimated now (every so often he will really gun it), but at the time it looked at least above average. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2015296 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/pro-day-report-alex-smith-042300667--nfl.html
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Oct 29, 2013 00:22
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IIRC Aaron Rodgers had questionable mechanics in college, he's one of the rare guys to actually fix that as a pro.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:25
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Also, part of the problem was that Mike Nolan drafted Smith because he was 'a winner', and then proceeded to cram him into an offense that featured absolutely none of the things Smith did (and did really well!) in college. Mike Nolan is a bad coach.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:26
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Ouroboros posted:Regarding that year's draft; I only recently started following the NFL, but how on earth did Alex Smith end up going 1st overall that year? From everything I've seen NFL scouts seem to hugely favour QBs with the prototypical physical skills (big arm, quick release etc) that give them a high ceiling. How did someone like Smith who is regarded as a relatively weak armed game manager go above Aaron Rodgers, who has one of the best arms and best throwing mechanics of anyone in the league? I know Rodgers got to sit for a few years and Smith had a procession of offensive coordinators, but surely Rodgers had to be considered as someone with a higher ceiling? Smith doesn't have a weak arm and he really isn't a "game manager" in the sense that people describe him. As a prospect he was an athletic tools guy with a good arm and what are now considered the usual questions coming out of a spread option offense like whether he could take drops and what kind of accuracy he really had (at the time those questions were new since there wasn't a great college spread option QB prospect prior to Smith).
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Oct 29, 2013 00:29
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Smith doesn't seem to have a weak arm particularly, he just struggles with an accurate deep pass. They are often overthrown.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:30
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Alex Smith struggles with his progressions. That doesn't show up as much in college when players are open more or less at will. He has got better due to coordinators now building a hot route into every passing play he can check down to. If they did this for Derek Anderson years ago he'd still be a starting QB.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:37
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Yaws posted:EDIT: Does anyone think Manziel has any chance to succeed in the NFL? I admit I've seen nothing but highlights of him, but it seems like given his small stature and reliance on scrambling and pulling plays out of his rear end he'll be a bust. The stuff he does in College doesn't seem like it would fly in the pros. Also he's intensely unlikable and I want him to fail. He's got plenty of throwing ability, anyone who mentions "arm strength" as a concern is basing it on freshman tape.
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Oct 29, 2013 00:38
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