|
Quest For Glory II posted:Mmm I have bad news for every QB prospect to ever declare then; that poo poo doesn't end until your name is called on draft day. Remember the debate of whether Indy should take RG3 instead of Luck? Even with the generational talent, there's intentional clouding. There was no significant debate between Luck and Griffin. Indy wasn't even pretending that it was a discussion, to the point that Griffin wouldn't even work out for them because they had tipped their hand months earlier that the pick was Luck.
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 11:43 |
|
|
Declan MacManus posted:"Perception" means where he's supposed to go; if he's not supposed to go high then he won't declare. That's the reason these players have agents prior to actually entering the pros: to advise them on where they're likely to be drafted and the risk vs. opportunity equation of going back to school for the potential to make more money in a later draft. Obviously that stuff can still change after the declaration is made, but it still absolutely matters. I wonder how the whole Barkley debacle will affect a lot of these draft-eligible but still younger QB prospects. jeffersonlives posted:There was no significant debate between Luck and Griffin. Indy wasn't even pretending that it was a discussion, to the point that Griffin wouldn't even work out for them because they had tipped their hand months earlier that the pick was Luck. Yeah, the 'should Indy take RG3???' debate was pure time-filler for the cable networks, there was never any doubt of who Irsay wanted.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:39
|
|
|
Grozz Nuy posted:Obviously that stuff can still change after the declaration is made, but it still absolutely matters. I wonder how the whole Barkley debacle will affect a lot of these draft-eligible but still younger QB prospects. Weren't people souring on Barkley before he actually declared, or is that my imagination?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:42
|
|
|
Grittybeard posted:Weren't people souring on Barkley before he actually declared, or is that my imagination? He played very inconsistently after coming back and he ended up getting injured.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:45
|
|
|
Grittybeard posted:Weren't people souring on Barkley before he actually declared, or is that my imagination? Yes, but the point was that he didn't declare in 2012 because he thought he would make more money if he got out from underneath the shadows of Luck and RG3, and it turned out he had a terrible senior season and lost millions of dollars. People soured on him over the course of the 2013 season, but if he had declared the prior year it wouldn't have played out that way. It's one of the biggest 'perception' hits from year to year I can remember, at least for a quarterback.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:47
|
|
|
Grittybeard posted:Weren't people souring on Barkley before he actually declared, or is that my imagination? Opposite way; Barkley and Landry Jones both didn't declare for 2012 because it was viewed as a top-heavy draft for quarterbacks and they had no chance to get past Luck and little chance to get past Griffin. Then their stock went plummeting in their senior seasons.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:47
|
|
|
Declan MacManus posted:He played very inconsistently after coming back and he ended up getting injured. Another reason to nut up and go into the draft after your best collegiate year. I'm looking at you Jake Locker.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:50
|
|
|
Grozz Nuy posted:Yes, but the point was that he didn't declare in 2012 because he thought he would make more money if he got out from underneath the shadows of Luck and RG3, and it turned out he had a terrible senior season and lost millions of dollars. People soured on him over the course of the 2013 season, but if he had declared the prior year it wouldn't have played out that way. It's one of the biggest 'perception' hits from year to year I can remember, at least for a quarterback. Oh, gotcha. For some reason I was thinking he still came out early even though he went back the year before, I thought he redshirted a season for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 20:55
|
|
|
Declan MacManus posted:"Perception" means where he's supposed to go; if he's not supposed to go high then he won't declare. Barkley's fall from grace was a much longer stretch of screwups. He had the awful game against Stanford, which had already hurt him, and then later had a stretch of 4 games where he threw 9 picks. I mean it all fell apart. Then on top of that, he injured his throwing shoulder in December, and was not able to perform in any of the post-season workouts. It was a whole lot of things. It went from "Alright maybe he's not the top quarterback" to "Oh wow yikes yeesh". The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Oct 24, 2013 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 21:05
|
|
|
Barkley was hurt all of last year and it makes sense that he dropped like he did. Plus USC was a dumpster fire that lost receivers and their blue chip LT. But, again, Barkley should have left the year before. He was just afraid of competing against Luck and RG3 in the draft.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 21:14
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:Yeah but I don't know where this change in perception is coming from, if the scouts knew what the level of competition was gonna be. For him to drop low enough that it would be a better move to stay another year, he'd have to be showing a couple of pretty serious cracks in the armor, which hasn't happened yet. Maybe those will form as the season goes along, I dunno. The Rutgers game will give scouts some stuff to mull over, because he made a couple of mistakes in that game. But if he's given a 1st round grade then he's got to get paid. Sometimes guys just rise and fall because perceptions shift, without an overriding narrative. In this case we're starting with the perpetual obsession with the idea that there always has to be a 1-1 candidate quarterback in each class, and coming into the season Bridgewater was not only the best candidate but really the only one. Now there is at least one other identifiable top pick quarterback prospect - one who frankly Bridgewater doesn't physically compare to all that well - and several more that could emerge, the bloom's off Bridgewater a bit; this was the inevitability that his stock would dip that I was originally referring to.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 21:28
|
|
|
kiimo posted:
I don't think the defense was the problem with Dorsey as much as the perception. The guy was a badass run defender in KC, it's just he was drafted to be the next Warren Sapp. It's one of those examples where a draft pick develops in weird ways. No one expected it, but the dude ended up combining the reach of the 6'5" guy you would generally expect to work well as a 2-gap DE with a much lower center of gravity and athleticism to get outside of the short area.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 22:12
|
|
|
What are people's current thoughts on Jimmy Garoppolo? Any chance he sprints up the rankings?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 22:35
|
|
|
Whoever gets Louis Nix is gonna be really happy. I'm gonna miss him at ND, he dominates the middle. Just gotta make sure he doesn't eat himself out of shape. Also, TJ Jones might be a receiver to keep an eye on in the mid to later rounds - not elite in any physical category, besides maybe agility or quickness. Great route runner and could be a good slot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2013 23:47
|
|
|
Get ready for a billion comparisons of Manziel to Russell Wilson y'all. 1,000,000,000
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 03:30
|
|
|
commy gun posted:Get ready for a billion comparisons of Manziel to Russell Wilson y'all. Analysts don't make lazy cross-race comparisons, they only make lazy intra-race comparisons. Although he is a lot more like Doug Flutie than Russell Wilson.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 03:35
|
|
|
kiimo posted:That trade wasn't worth it for Alex Smith. But if you pretend that Marcus Cooper was part of the trade it's a steal. His rise is so weird since he wasn't that good in college. Logan Ryan on the other hand, that dude is awesome and should have gone a round higher.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 04:58
|
|
commy gun posted:Get ready for a billion comparisons of Manziel to Russell Wilson y'all. Russell Wilson makes things happen by making smart decisions, including the best chance improvisation if a play breaks down. Manziel breaks plays down if he thinks he can try something rad and it works a lot in college even when it's a dumb as hell move that would never work in the NFL that said, with a good QB coach and more importantly, a true desire to improve, he certainly has the ability to be a decent QB in the league imo
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 05:14
|
|
|
Thats some awesome homer take on "scrambles and chucks it deep"
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 05:37
|
|
AAA DOLFAN posted:Thats some awesome homer take on "scrambles and chucks it deep" You're welcome. God bless.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 05:57
|
|
|
I want Jake Matthews on the Chargers so bad
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 06:01
|
|
|
I was pretty sure the Raiders were gonna grab a DT last year, but they grabbed a CB so what do I know? I have no idea who they grab here
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 06:21
|
|
|
Blitz7x posted:I was pretty sure the Raiders were gonna grab a DT last year, but they grabbed a CB so what do I know? I have no idea who they grab here I'd imagine you guys are pretty close to best player available working out no matter who it is right? I guess maybe not QB if Pryor keeps looking like he might work out. I've made fun of your roster a lot but I honestly don't know, what positions are you guys set at if any?
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 06:28
|
|
|
SteelAngel2000 posted:I want Jake Matthews on the Chargers so bad Your team is going to have to go 0-9 to get a shot at Matthews.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 06:44
|
|
|
The Puppy Bowl posted:Your team is going to have to go 0-9 to get a shot at Matthews. Which is really possible
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 06:46
|
|
|
Everyone says the Jags are in lock for the #1 pick but the Bucs are so inept and injury riddled that they've got to be in play too. They may be a more talented team but wins and losses are not always about talent. And they're likely to be with an interim coach soon as well. I dunno if Henne or Glennon is more likely to accidentally win a game for their team. Glennon doesn't really seem to want to try to throw aggressively and he gets worse and worse over the course of every game. But Henne is.. Henne.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 06:52
|
|
|
SteelAngel2000 posted:Which is really possible hahaha nah you're going to kick our rear end when we play you I need to make a new Cry me a rivers comic with Rivers jumping on everyone's graves
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 06:56
|
|
|
I'd be completely shocked if Mariota entered the draft, but then again I thought the same thing about Daron Thomas (idiot)
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 08:52
|
|
|
I actually want the Chiefs to draft Johnny Manziel because he'd own in the NFL with Andy Reid teaching him. If I can't have that, will be keeping fingers crossed that Sammy Watkins somehow slips to the bottom of the first round.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 11:15
|
|
|
Oh yeah I didn't put a serious comment in here yet: My dream scenario is the giants trade down a spot or two with a team that wants a QB, take Matthews and get some extra 2nd-3rd round picks in either this draft or firsts in a future draft. I would also be really happy to have Clowney on the giants but I really don't think he's going to fix the team by himself.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 11:58
|
|
|
Febreeze posted:hahaha nah you're going to kick our rear end when we play you Eli is going to utterly shred our secondary. It will not be pretty.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 12:39
|
|
|
Is Chris Borland held in decent regard? He looks really loving good this year and I noticed he wasn't on the OP list.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 14:35
|
|
|
sportsgenius86 posted:Is Chris Borland held in decent regard? He looks really loving good this year and I noticed he wasn't on the OP list. He's seen as small and will go in the second day probably. He'd be a good ILB in a 3-4 though, or at least a good rotational gap plugger.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 14:56
|
|
|
Browns, Niners, and Jags each have at least ten picks for the '14 draft. Gonna be fun as hell
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 15:02
|
|
|
Jets will have at least 10 as well. Bucs 3rd rounder plus 3-4 comp picks from the LaRon Landry, Shonn Greene, Mike DeVito, and Dustin Keller group.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 15:10
|
|
|
The NFL usually only gives 1-2 comp picks out, I thought. I know the Packers will get a decent one from Erik Walden/Greg Jennings at least.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 15:15
|
|
|
fariz posted:I'd be completely shocked if Mariota entered the draft, but then again I thought the same thing about Daron Thomas (idiot) You know Mariota has a first round grade from almost every "professional" scout and will probably get the same from the NFL Draft Advisory Board, right?
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 15:26
|
|
|
Grittybeard posted:I'd imagine you guys are pretty close to best player available working out no matter who it is right? I guess maybe not QB if Pryor keeps looking like he might work out. An actual Raiders fan will probably give you a better answer than I, but it seems they're set at: 1. Tackle. Veldheer is pretty good when healthy and they just drafted Menelik Watson who hasn't played much due to injury. 2. Center 3. Tyvon Branch is a pretty good safety That's all I know off the top of my head. Not sure how Sio Moore is doing but even if he's good they need more linebackers. I assume they need defensive lineman. They're starting Mike Jenkins so they need more quality corners. Woodson is having a good year but they need a replacement for him down the line. Their guards suck. They have some nice receivers but I'm not sure any of them is a true #1. And I don't know anything about their tight ends. Pretty much anyone would help the Raiders right now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 15:57
|
|
|
Kim Jong Il posted:His rise is so weird since he wasn't that good in college. The Chiefs have a really good defensive backs coach.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 16:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 11:43 |
|
|
superaielman posted:The NFL usually only gives 1-2 comp picks out, I thought. I know the Packers will get a decent one from Erik Walden/Greg Jennings at least.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2013 16:30
|
|