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I really should play BG1 as an Archer sometime just to revel in how bullshit it is. The trouble is paying the piper in ToB when bows just aren't that great.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:17
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"Well, Imoen hasn't done anything much to recommend her yet or not..." Ha ha, if I didn't know any better, I'd say that was planned.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:34
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Captain Oblivious posted:I really should play BG1 as an Archer sometime just to revel in how bullshit it is. You could just roll as an elven fighter. That way you could still get decent weapon proficiencies in TOB.
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Nov 22, 2013 05:35
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I'm hoping Bactorc equips every unidentified item he comes across. There is no way this will ever be a bad thing.
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Nov 22, 2013 07:31
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Whenever I play Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale, my entire party rocks the best ranged weapon they can use. A wizard and a cleric on sling duty can be pretty deadly, and having your meat shields get in a few free shots before the melee forms up is nice. In a lot of the early fights your party can stone and arrow a random encounter to death before it has a chance to get going.
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Nov 22, 2013 08:12
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This LP is a thing that I am very happy to see. I borrowed the sequel from a friend, and ended up liking it so much I bought a copy of the super-duper whatever edition with all the expansions. I thus never could get used to the feel of the original and always gave up a few hours beyond the point we now find Bactorc and friends. So to see it play out properly, and with such enjoyable personalities at the helm, is quite a thing to see indeed.
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Nov 22, 2013 09:20
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That was everything I hoped for. Are you going to change Imoen's color scheme as she gains levels to make her less pink and more of a ninja? Also, it is noted in the old strategy guide for Baldur's Gate that these hidden cache's with items in them are actually debug nodes that weren't cleaned up properly. One of the later patches to the original Baldur's Gate actually emptied them, but they used to put all sorts of magical gear in them for testing early on, and the gear you find currently are actually leftovers from the last build before they shipped. Just sheer luck they aren't more game-breaking, even if I'd argue double first level spells is pretty drat insane.
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Nov 22, 2013 10:11
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Mordaedil posted:Just sheer luck they aren't more game-breaking, even if I'd argue double first level spells is pretty drat insane. To be fair, that item does exist in game legitimately. The fact that you can get it at level 1 is kinda crazy, but on the other hand level 1 D&D sucks. If you aren't rocking a specialist mage it's not even that unbalanced.
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Nov 22, 2013 12:01
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caleramaen posted:To be fair, that item does exist in game legitimately. The fact that you can get it at level 1 is kinda crazy, but on the other hand level 1 D&D sucks. If you aren't rocking a specialist mage it's not even that unbalanced. It only really gets unbalanced in the mid levels where you have a lot of Level 1 spells to double, but you're still not supposed to have access to it legitimately. I will admit that I died to Tarnesh so much, that my usual course-of-action while playing this game was to head south to Beregost first and get a level or two before taking him on. I'm not actually sure it helped though 
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Nov 22, 2013 12:26
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Killing Tarnesh yourself is for scrubs. Run away and the guards'll just murder the bugger.
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Nov 22, 2013 12:43
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Tarnesh is a real dick move to throw at the player so early in the game. It has made me always recruit Montarion and Xzar just to act as extra targets/hitters until Jaheira/Khalid later kills them both. I don't suppose I spoil anything by saying that this usually happens when we're in Nashkel dealing with the trouble down there.
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Nov 22, 2013 13:24
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Tarnesh strategy A: Magic Missile from wand to disrupt Mirror Images (and Horror), then kill with conventional weapons. Tarnesh strategy B: Use the "Firebead stairs trick" in and out of the Temple of Wisdom to make him waste his spells. Then hit him with a sword. Tarnesh strategy C: Cast Shield. Oh, Magic Missiles? That's cute.
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Nov 22, 2013 14:33
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Tarnesh Strategy D is, of course, the old "Avandra smiles on Imoen" gambit.
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Nov 22, 2013 19:59
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Bacter posted:Tarnesh Strategy D is, of course, the old "Avandra smiles on Imoen" gambit. And also you're playing a modded version, because in the original Baldur's Gate you had to eliminate every single mirror image before the wizard would be vulnerable again. It was a bit like having Stoneskin at level 1.
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Nov 22, 2013 20:06
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More like Tymora but sure.
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Nov 22, 2013 20:07
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sebzilla posted:More like Tymora but sure. Actually relevant to the larger plot of the game! Tymora is alive at this point and Avandra has not yet risen to deity-hood. This is, believe it or not, pertinent.
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Nov 22, 2013 21:00
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Low level DnD is such bullshit. Now high level DnD that's also bullshit, just another (magical) sort 
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Nov 22, 2013 22:44
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I like low level D&D. Past level X there's so much bullshit to deal with its not fun for me as a GM. If I run 3rd edition or its derivatives I use E6 (epic level 6) which means people stop getting normal levels at 6th and advance through feats from there. It works out pretty well, and you can set the level cap wherever you feel comfortable. Yes, npcs follow this too. It's a different game for sure.
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Nov 23, 2013 01:22
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Yeah, I don't know too much but bundifund says at a certain level half tr scenarios are explaining why you can't use your 20 "find anything and teleport to it" spells and other silly stuff. Of course, by that point he's made a mockery of the deities with creative application of the grease spell and some spike traps anyway...
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Nov 23, 2013 04:48
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I'll take flack for this, but Imoen is one of my favorite characters of the series. The best is absolutely a certain beefy gentleman who will be met later on, but Imoen's pretty flexible, has good utility as a thief, has some options to perhaps change her class and layout, and I actually quite enjoy her voice acting. (If that's spoilers I'll edit it, but I feel like a beefy dude in an RPG with as many characters as the BG series is suitably vague)
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Nov 23, 2013 07:35
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SageNytell posted:I'll take flack for this, but Imoen is one of my favorite characters of the series. The best is absolutely a certain beefy gentleman who will be met later on, but Imoen's pretty flexible, has good utility as a thief, has some options to perhaps change her class and layout, and I actually quite enjoy her voice acting.  I want to like Imoen, but she's just annoying enough to make me dislike her. I'll keep her in my party but I'm not really happy about it.
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Nov 23, 2013 08:01
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I like Imoen too. I can't say why at this point, because my speculation at the time has retroactively become a spoiler.
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Nov 23, 2013 22:36
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Despite having playing BG1 before the sequel, and several times, it's NPC are not nearly as well developed as in the sequel. Some of them don't seem to have much written at all other than a backstory (that you only see if you look through their character page) and whatever they say when you pick them up. Hell, you can probably play through the game and not bump into half of them. Most of those don't reappear for BG2 either, but there are some more/less terrible mods out there that expands them.
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Nov 23, 2013 22:52
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Just like real D&D, most characters are merely a vehicle for their powers with the thinnest of veneers put on top. I say that those forgettable characters are a feature! "Hello my good (half-elven fighter) you look like a trustworthy adventurer! Care to join me in exterminating sapient creatures for profit? Splendid!" E: 99% of adventurers are unstable, amoral, murdering psychopaths, regardless of alignment.
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Nov 24, 2013 03:12
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Pvt.Scott posted:Just like real D&D, most characters are merely a vehicle for their powers with the thinnest of veneers put on top. I say that those forgettable characters are a feature! The fact that they get their gear stolen and unceremoniously kicked to the curb whenever their current player wants to roll up a new guy is also more-or-less a feature.
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Nov 24, 2013 03:39
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The standard for RPG character NPC's before Baldur's Gate was from the Golden box games, which were not exactly impressive deals. Baldur's Gate really set the standard for what modern RPG's treat NPC's like.
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Nov 24, 2013 11:10
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The problem with dumping Evil characters right off the bat is that you'll miss out on 2 of the best NPCs in the game. 
Skelicopter fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Nov 24, 2013 |
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Nov 24, 2013 13:52
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It's pretty funny how the whole clear Good/Evil dichotomy is even a thing in DnD, especially in this game where it's basically "Mercenaries Butchers Everything (including wildlife) up and down the Sword Coast. Maybe twice: The game". Of course, down that dark path lies Alignment Chat, the vilest and strongest of dragons  I suppose it comes down to if you start your letters with "This letter is addressed to the FORCES OF EVIL, if you are not in our club then butt out now..." and end them with "-The Guild of Calamitous Intent" or not. Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Nov 24, 2013 |
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Nov 24, 2013 15:10
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"Dear Evil Santa Claus, I have been extra bad this year. Please give me the power I need to crush my enemies like the vermin they are and also a bike, preferably one stolen from a small child. Sincerely, Glorthrax the Despoiler."
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Nov 24, 2013 17:21
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The only True Alignments are Kind of a Dick and Total Dick.
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Nov 25, 2013 02:41
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Pwnstar posted:The only True Alignments are Kind of a Dick and Total Dick. Don't forget about their opposing alignment, Trying Too Hard.
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Nov 25, 2013 04:02
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D&D minus alignments is the best. Or go old school with Order Neutral and Chaos.
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Nov 25, 2013 05:53
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Evil alignment just want to stab you. Good alignment want to find a good reason to stab you. They all want to stab you.
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Nov 25, 2013 05:55
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Am I going to be the one to say 'Good adventurer' is not an oxymoron? There's a difference between wanting to stab you and willing to stab you. The Good Guys don't want to stab you; but if you need a stabbin', they'll be the ones to do it. Keep the blood off the hands of those too squeamish.
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Nov 25, 2013 06:28
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How about we just say that what "good" and "evil" means basically just comes down to how the player wants to roleplay it and how the DM shows the consequences of that roleplay. It will vary from game to game, setting to setting and player to player, so all discussions about alignment will either boil down to arguments about morality and ethics (personal viewpoint) or storytelling mechanics (DM's implementation). 
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Nov 25, 2013 06:49
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Pimpmust posted:It's pretty funny how the whole clear Good/Evil dichotomy is even a thing in DnD, especially in this game where it's basically "Mercenaries Butchers Everything (including wildlife) up and down the Sword Coast. Maybe twice: The game". I just started playing this game while the LP was between updates, and honestly one of the hardest things to do is to NOT loot/murder everything in my path. This is especially true when it seems like every guide I reference tends to suggest doing things to maximize xp or loot, regardless of how vile the act is (even though there is no penalty for doing said acts).
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Nov 25, 2013 07:36
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Just started following this LP, and I'm unclear on one point:Mzbundifund posted:Bactorc was born in uncertain circumstances and brought to Candlekeep by Gorion. When he asked about his childhood, he was told that he was brought there by the storc. Given that Bactorc was raised in a library, he could often be found with his nose in a book, and as such grew up as a bit of a dorc. He had few friends outside the priesthood, who taught him how to live the sacred life, such as abstaining from porc. But even while doing so, he never could keep his table manners straight - he has no idea how to use a forc. Still the priests found him useful for opening the sacred wine, his immense strength made him easily able to remove the bottle's corc. His favorite pastime is meditating in the shrine, admiring the sacred artworc. So, you're implying that Bactorc is an unusually attractive elf? <ducks and runs for cover> :P More seriously, nice to see another LP by you guys. EDIT: As a team, have you two done anything other than this and the A&A LP? DGM_2 fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 25, 2013 07:39
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Nemo2342 posted:I just started playing this game while the LP was between updates, and honestly one of the hardest things to do is to NOT loot/murder everything in my path. This is especially true when it seems like every guide I reference tends to suggest doing things to maximize xp or loot, regardless of how vile the act is (even though there is no penalty for doing said acts). Killing and looting nonhostiles (with a very few exceptions) is not really profitable nor educational. You will end up with more gold than you need to buy everything of interest just by playing the game normally, and if you really really need to, there are places to go to grind xp that are literally a hundred times faster than just butchering peasants and guards. Even if you don't do that, you'll probably get enough xp to hit the level cap by the end of the game, assuming you do sidequests. Don't worry about maximizing your income, and just act like a hero! caleramaen posted:I like Imoen too. I can't say why at this point, because my speculation at the time has retroactively become a spoiler. I like Imoen too, if only because it took her about 10 hours to go from sheltered inkeeper's assistant to putting an arrow through a wizard's eye at point-blank range. a bunch of folks posted:Alignment chat Elfred's alignment is and has always been whatever his latest autobiography says it is. Bobbin Threadbare posted:And also you're playing a modded version, because in the original Baldur's Gate you had to eliminate every single mirror image before the wizard would be vulnerable again. It was a bit like having Stoneskin at level 1. Yeah there are going to be a few mechanics differences like this. The upside is that we don't need to grind through all the mirror images to hit Tarnesh, the downside is enemies won't have to grind through all our mirror images to hit us once we get access to that spell. On the whole, playing in the BG2 engine is going to make the game slightly more difficult, but only because we aren't playing the BG2-added character classes that are super broken at low level. Mzbundifund fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 25, 2013 08:40
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Mzbundifund posted:Killing and looting nonhostiles (with a very few exceptions) is not really profitable nor educational. You will end up with more gold than you need to buy everything of interest just by playing the game normally, and if you really really need to, there are places to go to grind xp that are literally a hundred times faster than just butchering peasants and guards. Even if you don't do that, you'll probably get enough xp to hit the level cap by the end of the game, assuming you do sidequests. Don't worry about maximizing your income, and just act like a hero! All the years I spent playing JRPGs has made it very hard not to loot every house and container I run across, though you are right in that most of the time the stuff isn't worth bothering with. I am also slowly breaking myself of the desire to pick up every piece of gear enemies drop, since most of it sells for a pittance. I do still try to pick up any magical weapons though, because I can always use more gold to feed my crippling potion addiction (or rather, the AI script's potion addiction). Income is really not the problem though; things started to snowball once I'd managed to find enough magical gear to outfit my team and can happily sell the rest. Xp is a bit harder to turn down, because I always want to see what that next levelup will bring.
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Nov 25, 2013 09:33
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A friend wanted to play multiplayer with me this weekend so he rolled up a paladin and I rolled a fighter. We've gotten as far as Nashkel and we've lost Imoen once, Jaheira once, Khalid once (and kicked), and a handful of other miscreants from Beregost we've lost twice. We're off to a wonderful start and discovered yesterday the magical feeling of breaking and entering someones home and them actually threatening to call the guards on us. He expected it to behave more like eery other RPG, so he was a bit surprised when people were yelling at us. 
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Nov 25, 2013 09:44
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