Glorantha - Loreposting is always an option!

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CarrKnight: May 24, 2013

300 pages preview available for backers. Looks amazing.

# ? Dec 25, 2013 22:57

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 14:33

Down With People: Oct 31, 2012; The child delights in violence.

You lucky assholes who have the preview need to be telling me every single thing about it.

What does the first volume cover?

# ? Dec 28, 2013 02:00

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

Jeff just posted one of the illustrations they were still waiting for. It's just as tripy as you'd expect a vision of the Other Side to be.

# ? Dec 28, 2013 07:10

RocknRollaAyatollah: Nov 26, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

Down With People posted:

You lucky assholes who have the preview need to be telling me every single thing about it.

What does the first volume cover?

I'd also like to know this as well. Does it seem close to finished? I know they said they were 99.X% done but does it look like that to you guys?

I've been kicking myself for not backing it but in my defense it wasn't exactly financially feasible to back it at that time.

# ? Jan 5, 2014 17:12

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

It looks really, really polished. Stellar art, good graphic design. As far as I know they're mostly waiting for a few last pieces of art to come in.

Here's a copy of the index:

pre:

Contents
World Structure 7
Introduction 8
Major Cultures 18
Hsunchen Culture 18
Doraddi Culture 22
Praxian Culture 26
Orlanthi Culture 31
Pelorian Culture 38
Fonritian Culture 43
Western Culture 48
Kralori Culture 54
Elder Races 59
Aldryami 59
Dragonewts 70
Dragons 77
The Mostali 81
The Uz 91
Merfolk 103
Lesser Elder Races 106
Time in Glorantha 111
Mythos & History 113
The World of Time 125
The Dawn Age 125
The Second Age 132
The Third Age 140
Major Pantheons 150
The Hero Planes 154
Beyond the Middle World 158
Regions 163
of Glorantha 163
Geographic and Political Divisions 163
Genertela 166
Dragon Pass 168
Sartar 172
Tarsh 175
The Grazelanders 175
Elder Wilds 191
Fronela 199
Kingdom of Loskalm 203
Central Fronela 212
Akem 212
Junora 215
Janube River States 216
Jonatela 222
Northern Fronela 229
Holy Country 234
Caladraland 243
Esrolia 244
Shadow Plateau 244
God Forgot 248
Kralorela 260
Boshan Province 268
Hanjan Province 272
Hum Chang 275
Jaubon Province 279
Puchai Province 281
Shiyang Province 283
Wanzow Province 285
Chen Durel, the 286
Bliss of Ignorance 286
Lunar Empire 292
The Lunar Heartland 299
First Blessed 307
Darjiin 309
Doblian 310
Karasal 311
Kostaddi 313
Oraya 314
Oronin 316
Silver Shadow 317
Sylila 319
Carmania 322
Lunar Provinces 328
Aggar 331
Holay 335
Imther 338
Vanch 339
Talastar 341
Dorastor 342
Lunar Allies 344

# ? Jan 6, 2014 04:31

RocknRollaAyatollah: Nov 26, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

Volume 1 is shaping up to be pretty amazing. I can't wait to get it.

# ? Jan 6, 2014 15:07

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

And now, for no particular reason, an excerpt from The Book of Heortling Mythology.

The Book of Heortling Mythology, page 24 posted:

How Dragon Pass Was Made

When the world was made, no one asked the dragons where
they wished to be. No one had invited them, and no one
knew where they came from. But when they chose a place
upon the northern slopes of the Spike to nest, no one
minded.

Peoples were made, the Elder Races and later, the
humans. Troubles of the world began when the races of the
Surface World met each other and could not share territory.
The gods made a plan to keep the people apart and,
therefore, harmless. The gods got together, and with the
help of the Maker and the Earth Mother they made the
Seeds of the Mountains.

Larnste was the god who planted the Rockwood
Mountains. He strolled along, planting the seeds deep in
some places, and just scattering them upon the ground in
others. Where they were deep grew great mountains, and
where they were shallow rose hills. In this way the great
ranges of stone grew up, and separated folks who would
have fought against each other.

When Larnste reached the Dragon Nest he stuck his
staff into the ground and stopped to speak to the Ancient
One. He rested there, and so no seeds were sown along that
stretch, where the dragons nested. But after he pulled his
staff from deep in the ground, one seed rolled out into the
pit where it had been. It grew from the depths and became
the god's favorite mountain, which was Kero Fin Mountain.
As a result, there is now a great open area here among
the mountains, and when the gods saw it they were worried
that it would allow the diverse peoples to meet, and that
they would fight.

And they were right. It is the place where many peoples
and races have met. And as predicted, it is the place where
they have fought, too.

Larnste was the original owner of the movement rune, and Orlanth's grandfather. Kero Fin is an eight mile high mountain and the mother of Orlanth and Yinkin.

# ? Jan 6, 2014 20:53

Dedhed: Feb 27, 2005

One more story from the book of heortling mythology. Go and buy it, its really worth it.

Anyway, heres a story about how peace was made.

quote:

How Peace Was Made
When the Gods were at war, they loved fighting, even though they often got hurt and hurt others. This was the way of it. When Death came, the consequences were more serious, but since the Storm Tribe was the toughest they mostly just killed other people instead of dying themselves.

One day Orlanth saw Ernalda, who was a prisoner in the Emperor's Palace. He took his army and stormed the castle, killing everyone who resisted. He rescued Ernalda just before the guards sold her to troll slavers. Orlanth asked if she was pleased with his actions, and she said that she certainly was. But for one thing, she added.

�And what is that?�

�So much fighting, so many deaths. Must this always be
so?�

�It is the way,� said Orlanth. �Violence is always an
option.�

�There is always another way,� she said.

Ernalda was happy to have been rescued, but she was no fool. Orlanth had to do many tasks to prove himself to her before she would consent to become his wife. So he got her the New Flint, and the mirror, and kittens to chase out the rats from the cereals. When he got the New Flint, Orlanth broke down a fort and chased a whole clan to the forest. When he got the mirror he had to kick the dogs, and he knocked down the door of Asrelia's hut. And he did other destructive things, too.

And every time Ernalda would be pleased, except by the means he used. And the two of them always said the same things.

�Violence is always an alternative.�
�There is always another way.�

Finally, Orlanth said, �Why is it this such a big issue to you, anyway? I do not understand. Do I violate my laws? Do I lack some awareness?�

Ernalda did not answer this with words. Instead she agreed to be his love-wife for a year, and they held the wedding feast and stated their vows. In the wedding bed that night Orlanth learned the pleasures of married love.

After his marriage he went to the Checkered Battle, and was gone. When he returned he had the choice to continue the fight or not, and it was clear to all involved that he was going to win.

That was when he saw his first child, Barntar, cradled in the arms of his wife. And when the child looked into his eyes, Orlanth allowed himself to be touched.

�There is always another way,� she said.

And Orlanth said, �I see now, that there is more to the world than can be seen through one's own eyes. The touch of insight frightens me, like Chalana Arroy's compassion scares me. But if I can look Wakboth in the eye, I can bear up under the stare of my own infant son.�

The next day, when it was time to choose whether or not to go back to the Checkered Battle, Orlanth did not.

He chose peace.

And although it was not permanent, it was made, and was real. For the first time. And after that the promise was made again, and though broken too, it was real for a time, each moment adding to the reality.

And Peace was made, then, bit by bit.

# ? Jan 7, 2014 03:04

neaden: Nov 4, 2012; A changer of ways

RocknRollaAyatollah posted:

Volume 1 is shaping up to be pretty amazing. I can't wait to get it.

Has there been any more word on when this will be for sale? I didn't back but am interested, I can't find anything recent though.

Ok anther note what is people's opinion on fate core for Glorantha, it seems doable without any extras but if anyone has tried it I woukd be interested in hearing.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 21:04

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

The last update of note was this G+ post ~15 days ago. To quote:

Jeff Richards posted:

We are going to finish Vol. 2 and then send out a final preview pdf (giving folk a chance to help catch any errors we missed or accidentally introduced). Then off to the printers. Then off to get fulfilled. Then in your hands.

* * * * * *

The release date is "as soon as it is ready and not one minute later". As can be seen with the previews for Volume One, this is a massive undertaking. Even though the text and maps have been finished for quite some time, laying out a book of this size and complexity has turned out to be � complex.

And here's why the PDF for volume 1 hasn't been put out early like I thought it might be:

Rick Meints posted:

We haven't decided on the exact page split of the two volumes. We want them to be pretty close to each other in size. We'll know soon though. We can make the final version of the PDF for Volume 1 available slightly earlier, but the index for both volumes will be at the end of Volume 2, and indexing can't be done until it has been completed. Thus, you'd have to live without an index for a few weeks, but that's not so bad in electronic products that are searchable.

# ? Jan 29, 2014 21:29

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

So hey, this thread seems pretty inactive. Have a Blueface!

# ? Feb 3, 2014 22:50

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

That's outstanding. Thanks for the neat link, too.

Speaking of activity, here's the latest update on the guide

# ? Feb 4, 2014 02:04

Neurosis: Jun 10, 2003; Fallen Rib

Wasn't that meant to be done in December?

# ? Feb 20, 2014 16:10

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

Neurosis posted:

Wasn't that meant to be done in December?

It was. However some missing art pieces, and Rick Meints being sent to China (of all places), things slowed down. The most recent update showed they've more or less finished the second half of the book and are working their way through the Appendices. They've also stated they don't want to split up the content in two books until they have all of it done, and know how big the drat things will actually be.

# ? Feb 20, 2014 16:20

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

I think the last estimate for size was over 600 pages, without appendixes. That's bigger than the pathfinder core book.

# ? Feb 20, 2014 18:39

BryanChavez: Sep 13, 2007; Custom: Heroic
Having A Life: Fair

Haystack posted:

I think the last estimate for size was over 600 pages, without appendixes. That's bigger than the pathfinder core book.

We're up to a grand total of "at least eight hundred pages", counting everything. The last two updates gave us some cool layout previews, too:

# ? Feb 20, 2014 20:28

Neurosis: Jun 10, 2003; Fallen Rib

I have no intention of playing this ever, but gently caress me I am going to buy that book.

I am reminded of this big book of Greek myths I took out of my school's library when I was 7 years old. I churned through that really fast and reread it, then took out a book of Celtic myths, then Egyptian. Those books influence my understanding of literature and a lot of allusions in culture to this day.

Reading Glorantha lore puts me in mind of those books all the time, and it rules.

Neurosis fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Apr 25, 2014

# ? Feb 25, 2014 07:17

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

Neurosis posted:

I have no intention of playing this ever, but gently caress me I am going to buy that book.

I am reminded of this big book of Greek myths I took out of my school's library when I was 7 years old. I churned through that really fast and reread it, then took out a book of Celtic myths, then Egyptian. Those books influenced my understanding of literature and a lot of allusions in culture to this day.

Reading Glorantha law puts me in mind of those books all the time, and it rules.

If this is what you're into, you might also enjoy reading these:

Book of Heortling Mythology - Collection of myths of the Orlanthi
History of the Heortling People - Pretty self-explanatory.
The Entekosiad - An exploration of Pre-Lunar Pelandan mythologoy and gods, done as an account of a Lunar HeroQuester who visited them in the Gods World.
King of Sartar - An in-universe collection of documents from the Fourth Age, centered around figuring out who Prince Argrath of Sartar was, and trying to unravel the various conflicting sources of the time (that time being the HeroWars, already in progress)

All of these are from the Stafford Library, which means that everything in them is "canon", so information found inside is very very unlikely to ever be Gregged into something else. Moon Design have also mentioned they plan on re-releasing King of Sartar, so we also have that to look forward to.

Edit: Actually, I'd probably throw Arcane Lore in there as well. It's a lot, lot rougher than some of the other Stafford Library books (which are hardly all that well formated and finished pieces to begin with), but towards the end it has a very detailed recounting of the Hill of Gold myth, and the different ways it can be approached. (From the point of view of Yelmalio, Orlanth, Zorak Zoran or (rarely) Inora)

Jenx fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Feb 25, 2014

# ? Feb 25, 2014 09:54

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

Sorry for the double post, but I also forgot to mention. If anyone wants to hang out and talk about Glorantha stuff, you can head over here, and join #cowgame.

# ? Feb 28, 2014 21:04

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

Triple posting like a boss!

But there is a good reason for it, I swear! I have started a Chose Your Own Adventure thread set in Glorantha over at the Game Room! Come on and participate!

# ? Mar 17, 2014 18:01

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

So, another update on the guide, with some hard info in it.

Total page count is going to be about 800 pages, of which 46 will be index(!)
Each volume will be 400 pages.
They're pretty confidant that they'll get things to the printers by early April.
They're going to be sending out the surveys soon. This is important, since that's how they're going to be getting shipping addresses.
Extra orders are going to get handled elusively through glorantha.com

edit: Also, go participate in Jenx's thread, if you aren't already :choco:

Haystack fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Mar 18, 2014

# ? Mar 18, 2014 21:26

Bobbo the Clown: Feb 24, 2014

A few years ago, on the last day of a local con, I was sitting in the hotel restaurant and overheard part of a conversation Greg Stafford was having at the next table over.

Greg Stafford: "The thing is, when I first moved to the Bay Area in the early 70s, I was doing A LOT of speed..."

I feel like this goes a long way towards explaining some of the particular quirks in Glorantha's cosmology.

# ? Apr 7, 2014 19:04

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

For those of you going to Gencon, there are still a few Heroquest games with slots open (1, 2, 3). Moon Design is also putting on a few seminars and a White Bear and Red Moon freeform rpg (link).

# ? May 19, 2014 16:42

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

Double post, but the guide just got its proofs back.

# ? May 24, 2014 00:13

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

So what are people's thoughts on Heroquest 2.0? I'm hoping to run an Orlanthi game in the near future, and I've been researching how people use the system. So far, I have the following observations and thoughts:

Roll high is generally more satisfying than roll low for resolving marginal victories/defeats.
There can be too many marginal defeats and successes as outcomes, making the players feel like they're always hanging on by the skin of their teeth.
It can be hard to accurately estimate the probabilities of a given contest, but intuitive guesswork seems to pretty accurate
I suspect that an important part of mastering the system is getting good at "string raising," ie. proposing different approaches to a challenge to feel out the different resistances. Eg "It's Nearly Impossible to lift that bounder with Strong as an Ox. It would be Very Difficult for your Crowbar King to lever the boulder out of the way." Is that something I should encourage?

What have your experiences with the game been, good or bad?

Edit: This thread was a very edifying read on the topic

Haystack fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jun 4, 2014

# ? Jun 4, 2014 19:00

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

Okay people, important news! For those of you who have not backed the Kickstarter, but still wish to get your hands on the Guide to Glorantha (and I don't know why you wouldn't, that book is absolutely amazing!) then you should head over to the glorantha.com shop where Pre-orders have started!

# ? Jun 26, 2014 08:06

Dedhed: Feb 27, 2005

Here's a list of all the rulers of sun dome country. I love "Pistolli, who tried hard". Also "blame and shame" is a great name for a set of twins.

Its from the Pavis and the Big Rubble set, which I got a long time ago and it is a very good set and you should get it. It balances Glorantha's setting with some dungeon crawly themes in a charming way that makes you forget its even trying to balance them.

# ? Jun 28, 2014 16:20

The Sharmat: Sep 5, 2011; by Lowtax

Loretalk: So I stumbled on and read the Lives of Sedenya. I'm not sure how much of this is still totally canon, and it's kind of a trippy and hard to follow read anyway, but the impression I got was almost that Sedenya was an artificially created deity made through powerful experimental heroquesting by fusing various dead moon goddesses with a mortal vessel and a big heaping helping of Chaos.

How horrifically inaccurate and wrong is this impression?

# ? Jul 5, 2014 10:46

BryanChavez: Sep 13, 2007; Custom: Heroic
Having A Life: Fair

To be pithy and not wholly accurate, you could characterize the Sedenya vs. Orlanth conflict as a dispute over the word 'artificial'.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 11:00

The Sharmat: Sep 5, 2011; by Lowtax

I still have no idea what the whole Castle Blue thing is about.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 12:19

Doc Aquatic: Jul 30, 2003; Current holder of the Plush-bum Mr. Sweets Chair in American Hobology

BryanChavez posted:

To be pithy and not wholly accurate, you could characterize the Sedenya vs. Orlanth conflict as a dispute over the word 'artificial'.

Could you unpack this a little? That's a fascinating statement, but I don't know enough Glorantha lore to fully understand what you mean.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 20:47

BryanChavez: Sep 13, 2007; Custom: Heroic
Having A Life: Fair

I can certainly try. Warning: with Glorantha, it's always worryingly easy for me to slip into in-universe perspectives.

Here's what the Guide has to say about the creation of the Red Goddess:

Guide to Glorantha posted:

Dara Happa fell to the Carmanian Empire in
1173, and Peloria suffered greatly under Carmanian
oppression. In 1220, a coven of divine researchers
and rebels sought to reintegrate lost portions of magic
from the Gods Age. In the city of Torang in the land
of Rinliddi, synthesis was achieved, and a woman was
born. Initially she was called She Who Has Come, later
the Red Goddess.

She Who Has Come was first like a young
girl, then a powerful woman, then a terrifying
demigoddess, and finally a loving goddess. She
brought a new healing philosophy to the tattered and
tired peoples of ravaged Peloria, preaching tolerance
and freedom. With open hands she bestowed
generous gifts of food, healing, and transformation
on her people. With closed fists she dealt great blows
to defend her people and to convert those who
sought to hold her back.

Peoples and then their gods resisted the Red
Goddess. For eight years she walked in the physical
plane, and then departed for a timeless Heroquest
through the lost ages where even gods cannot go. She
tested her philosophies against demons and proved
her theories against gods. She returned in four years
and saved her followers from extinction, giving them
victory, madness, and the Crimson Bat. Energized by
things which had never before been seen in Glorantha,
the Red Goddess turned to conquest and expansion
for 13 years.

It sounds worryingly like Godlearnerism, doesn't it, a band of researchers bolting together forgotten magic and transforming that into a child? When that child, She Who Has Come, then incarnates then Chaos itself into her very being, you begin to go from worried to utterly terrified. This should not be. The Red Goddess is cheating, she's artificial, she's not how things should be happening. She achieved apotheosis at the Battle of Castle Blue, when gods stepped into Time (as the invasion of Chaos, which the Red Goddess undeniably is, is one of the only times you can ignore the Cosmic Compromise) and left the door open for her to step into Before Time, which, again, is cheating. No one can deny her position as great goddess, but you can (and should) deny the legitimacy of that position. She took it falsely, using false magic.

And of course, that's all nonsense. There have been many examples throughout Time of these sorts of discoveries. No one is insane enough to claim that every new discovery about a god is artificial and false. The realization that all of these forgotten magics could be called back into the world again, through a powerful ritual, is no more false than any of those. 'Artificial' is meaningless. Those who deny the Red Goddess use these as excuses for why they fear and shun her blessed transformative nature. The Red Goddess stands outside of the Compromise, and can control Chaos itself (because it's a part of her), due to her own nature, which only a madman would call 'cheating'. Orlanth did new things all the time, which the Evil Emperor called cheating, but only because he did not know these things and did not like them.

There's way more than that, of course. The Lunar vs. Orlanthi conflict could be argued on about a million different fronts (Liberation vs. Freedom, Illumination vs. That poo poo's Chaos, You Killed Nysalor vs. He Was Chaos!, All-Inclusive vs. Not If It's loving Chaos, etc.), this is just one of the main ones.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 21:48

BlindGuy: Feb 27, 2011; The Prophet

Spinning off a comment in the KoDP thread, can somebody tell me about Theya Two-Mothers? I've seen the name before, but don't recall much info about her.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 16:01

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

What's the best source to learn about lunar history/mythology? Besides the guide, obviously

# ? Jul 6, 2014 16:03

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Does anyone know if the guide is going to be coming out as a digital download? Something like the current heroquest books on drivethrurpg?

# ? Jul 6, 2014 17:30

BlindGuy: Feb 27, 2011; The Prophet

Josef bugman posted:

Does anyone know if the guide is going to be coming out as a digital download? Something like the current heroquest books on drivethrurpg?

Yes, it will be available in PDF. Backers get it first as far as I know, but I think the rest of you should be able to soon.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 17:44

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

Josef bugman posted:

Does anyone know if the guide is going to be coming out as a digital download? Something like the current heroquest books on drivethrurpg?

Probably a week or so, exclusively on glorantha.com

edit: While I'm posting, I might as well share this to drool over

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQPXbAIKA94

# ? Jul 6, 2014 17:58

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

BlindGuy posted:

Spinning off a comment in the KoDP thread, can somebody tell me about Theya Two-Mothers? I've seen the name before, but don't recall much info about her.

From what I know Theya is a character from some old Glorantha campaign, and kind of like Sora Goodseller she became a "canon" character in the setting. I don't know if there's a specific page that explains where and how she came into being, but you can read a story involving her over here and if you have Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes you will find out that she is also one of the example PCs given in that book.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 18:25

BryanChavez: Sep 13, 2007; Custom: Heroic
Having A Life: Fair

Haystack posted:

What's the best source to learn about lunar history/mythology? Besides the guide, obviously

We don't have much, and the two 'official' Lunar books have been disavowed by the creators. What we do have are a few of the Stafford Library: The Fortunate Succession is an in-universe text where the author seeks to prove the unbroken succession between the Dara Happan emperors and the Red Emperor of the Lunar Empire. Of course, to really make sense of it, you need to read The Glorious ReAscent of Yelm first, which covers a Dara Happan take on the beginning of the world up to the start of the Khordavu Dynasty in the First Age. The Entekosiad is another in-universe text, written by a heroquester about her efforts to discover that Entekos is an incarnation of the Red Goddess. In the course of her quests, she goes through a lot of ancient Pelorian myths, from a handful of different cultures that are now a part the Lunar Empire. It's a dense, unpolished read, but really drat interesting besides that.

In fact, fair warning to anyone who wants to take a look at these: get the Guide first, and read everything you possibly can about the Lunar Empire from that beforehand. The Stafford Library, especially these three, are Greg pouring out his thoughts onto the page, without an editing process. They are not easy reads, and will probably find their way, in some form or another, into an official Dara Happan and/or Lunar Empire book at some point down the line. After a lot of editing, tweaking, and formatting.

But if you're willing to smack head-first into Gloranthan myth, I highly recommend them.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 18:30

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 14:33

Jenx: Oct 17, 2012; Behold the Bull of Heaven!

I'm seconding Brian's opinion on the Stafford Library books - While, say, the Book of Heortling Mythology and The Land of 10 000 Goddesses are fairly polished books, stuff like the Entekosiad is simply a difficult read. Half of each page in the book are just notes below the line, explaining the various names and terminology that the in-universe writer is just throwing left and right.

# ? Jul 6, 2014 19:00

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