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Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



The nice thing about taking a Kraxon with your kitted out Porn Goatass is that you can have it suck up a hit or two to try to keep it in the fight. I admit my opinion of the Kraxon as a piece of total poo poo has been changed by someone who ran it in formation with some hitters and put Konmel and Mirok on the Kraxon and made me hate life. Now I try to run Anti-matter mines on multiple ships just as a hedge against that "we're all in range 1 as an invincible super-formation" bullshit.



So, for OP 3 I had pretty decent success with a 2-ship build built around quality attacks and swift engagement. I want to try the concept out again.

Command Tokens

USS Defiant
Jean Luc Picard
Miles O'Brien
Quantum Torpedoes
Transwarp Drive

USS Excelsior
James T Kirk
Feint
Cheat Death
Spock
Janice Rand
Quantum Torpedoes
Transwarp Drive

The idea is 2 skill nine captains on Fed ships should have the deployment initiative over at least some of the opponent's key ships in most cases.

Deploy them opposite so they have a vector to swing in on those ships turn one. A very wary opponent might do a move conservative enough to keep me out of max range with a transwarp ahead 6, but in my experience the local meta seldom slow-plays out of their deployment zone. Anything but a 1/2 distance maneuver will put me in range with a transwarp six. If they do putter off the starting line... well, that's a downside to this list to be sure. There's definitely less incentive to rush the objective this time out, so I may have to go back to the drawing board depending how practice games pan out.

Assuming I can get to max range, Picard Target locks and goes to battlestations. If there is an attack spoiler like Varel or Interphase generator present I instead use the ship action to O'Brien it and use a command token to battlestations.

Kirk is effectively at battlestations with the free scan and Spock, and uses Rand to Feint, and the ship action to acquire a lock.

If I didn't have to command token for a lock or battlestations, I use the re-roll command token as a hedge against a poor Q-torp roll.

If I don't manage to bring them under my guns turn 1, I can use Miles to shut down Barrage of Fire to make sure I can weather the first salvo, or turn of an advance weapon system to ensure I can get a shot.

If it feels like transwarp just isn't doing it for me, I suppose there's always In'Cha, but I am one of those weirdos who gets all excited about rassenhygene with his little toy spaceships.

Anyway I'm open to constructive comments.

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Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell

Whitehorn posted:

Thanks for the hit ;)

This game has really taken me by surprise. It's put my other gaming hobbies on the shelf for the time being.

I'm responsible for that disco-coloured mess, so if you have any requests, toss them at me.

Is there a specific browser you recommend?

Also, should I be able to see how many elite talent slots a captain has?

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell

Otisburg posted:

...Deploy them opposite so they have a vector to swing in on those ships turn one. A very wary opponent might do a move conservative enough to keep me out of max range with a transwarp ahead 6, but in my experience the local meta seldom slow-plays out of their deployment zone. Anything but a 1/2 distance maneuver will put me in range with a transwarp six. If they do putter off the starting line... well, that's a downside to this list to be sure. There's definitely less incentive to rush the objective this time out, so I may have to go back to the drawing board depending how practice games pan out.
...

The nice thing is, if your opponent does putter, you can always hedge and put down a 4 straight, and use that instead of engaging the optional transwarp ("may" being the operative word on TW), and keep yourself from being fully three sheets to the wind.

You'll have to let us know how the fleet goes

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


Whitehorn posted:

Thanks for the hit ;)

This game has really taken me by surprise. It's put my other gaming hobbies on the shelf for the time being.

I'm responsible for that disco-coloured mess, so if you have any requests, toss them at me.

Being able to organize upgrades by category would be helpful. Also, being able to sort Captains by skill.

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell
Dang holidays, I'm going to miss most of the occurrences of OP4 in my area :argh:

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


I really like the idea of using the Strike Force Admiral's Orders with the two Jem'Hadar ships (the 5th Patrol Wing and the 4th Division Battleship).

Admiral's Orders: Strike Force (5pts)

4th Division Battleship with Independent Flagship 1 (46pts)
@Weyoun (4pts)
-Once More Unto the Breach (6pts)
^Varel (11pts)

5th Patrol Wing (22pts)
@Gul Dukat (5pts)

Total: 99pts

Okay, so Weyoun + Varel is dickitude of the highest order, and the Strike Force card will ensure that every round I will be able to avoid an attack. Once More Unto the Breach will be devestating at the right moment, giving me two attacks at 5 dice (6 if I can get in at range 1).

The 5WP suffers a bit, but with Dukat and the battleship, I can make it a token generating machine.

Jonas Albrecht fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Dec 3, 2013

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Man I literally don't know what response I have to Weyoun+Varel if you get it down to 1ship v 1ship. The only thing I can do is try to make you overlap me and lose your action. I don't generally run crew ganking, and in any event its worthless if I can't get off a shot to lower your shields.

poo poo's scary.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


Otisburg posted:

Man I literally don't know what response I have to Weyoun+Varel if you get it down to 1ship v 1ship. The only thing I can do is try to make you overlap me and lose your action. I don't generally run crew ganking, and in any event its worthless if I can't get off a shot to lower your shields.

poo poo's scary.

You're response would be to look me in the eye while I destroy your forces.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


Here's an attempt at a pure Dominion build.

Admiral's Orders:
Strike Force (5pts)
United Force (0pts)

Gor Portas with Dominion Flagship - 36pts
@Gul Dukat - 5pts
*Energy Dissipator (5pts)
*Energy Dissipator (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
^Breen Aide (2pts)

5th Wing Patrol Ship - 22pts
@Weyoun (4pts)
%Tetryon Emissions (3pts)
*Forward Weapons Grid (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
^Glinn Telle (3pts)

There's not a lot of razzledazzle here, but Glinn Telle is going to help keep your ships around longer. Plus the 5WP's attack boost will apply to Forward Weapons Grid, giving you a 4/5 split against multiple ships, or a whopping 7 attack dice with Photon Torpedos. The Gor Portas is going to be the torpedo boat that it is.

Jonas Albrecht fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Dec 3, 2013

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



New spaceship day tomorrow bros and ladybros!

I am of course most excited about the Excelsior, even if they made her captain something of a dud.

I am LEAST excited about the Vo, because while it fills the role of the Romunal Science Vessel in a strictly better way, that's not much to get excited about, and the captain and upgrades are mostly legit bad, and there are fewer of them than other expansions.

I'd say on the balance the Dominion is getting the most out of this wave, finally having a for-real captain, and the Romulans the least.

Having tried some proxy transwarp let me tell you that it's pretty boss. Being able to choose between 4 and 6 ahead on the reveal allows for some tricksiness, almost like a verticle sensor echo, and the flat-out speed of it allows for some cool stuff to occur.

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004




Tomorrow ill finally be able to recreate the best ship ever. Whale movie ship

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



zVxTeflon posted:

Tomorrow ill finally be able to recreate the best ship ever. Whale movie ship

Too few crew slots. :smith:

I guess flagshipping it helps a little.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


My current plan for the next OP scenario.

Command Tokens (5pts)

Gor Portas (26pts)
@Picard (7pts) (33pts)
*Energy Disspipator (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
^Mr. Spock (6pts)

Kraxon (26pts)
@Mirok (3pts)
^Konmel (5pts) (40pts)

Note quite sure what to do with my last seven points.

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell

Jonas Albrecht posted:

My current plan for the next OP scenario.

Command Tokens (5pts)

Gor Portas (26pts)
@Picard (7pts) (33pts)
*Energy Disspipator (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
^Mr. Spock (6pts)

Kraxon (26pts)
@Mirok (3pts)
^Konmel (5pts) (40pts)

Note quite sure what to do with my last seven points.

Hmmmmm, I'm wondering what you would do with the kraxon first round. Maybe one of the actions to reduce defense dice in preparation for energy dissipation ?

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Jonas Albrecht posted:

My current plan for the next OP scenario.

Command Tokens (5pts)

Gor Portas (26pts)
@Picard (7pts) (33pts)
*Energy Disspipator (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
^Mr. Spock (6pts)

Kraxon (26pts)
@Mirok (3pts)
^Konmel (5pts) (40pts)

Note quite sure what to do with my last seven points.

Kraxon is lookin' pretty bare, dogg. Throw some tech and weapons on that pig so it can be a threat in its own right in addition to soaking up hits from the Gore Portcullas.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


Otisburg posted:

Kraxon is lookin' pretty bare, dogg. Throw some tech and weapons on that pig so it can be a threat in its own right in addition to soaking up hits from the Gore Portcullas.

Might throw the Flagship resource on it.

I had to adjust for a lack of Spock.

Gor Portas (26pts)
@Picard (7pts) (33pts)
*Energy Disspipator (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
^Boheeka (2pts)

Kraxon with Independent Flagship #3(36pts)
@Mirok (3pts)
%Tetryon Emissions (3pts)
^Konmel (5pts)

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell
Just cracked open the RIS Vo. Man, this thing is maneuverable; not a single red maneuver, can come about at a 2 white.

wild

edit: oh, apparently the Apnex has a similar move profile

Sir DonkeyPunch fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Dec 7, 2013

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004




Jonas Albrecht posted:

Might throw the Flagship resource on it.

I had to adjust for a lack of Spock.

Gor Portas (26pts)
@Picard (7pts) (33pts)
*Energy Disspipator (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
*Photon Torpedos (5pts)
^Boheeka (2pts)

Kraxon with Independent Flagship #3(36pts)
@Mirok (3pts)
%Tetryon Emissions (3pts)
^Konmel (5pts)

What is the point of taking 2 photon torpedos on the same ship? Is it just to shoot them two rounds back to back without wasting an action to recharge it?

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



zVxTeflon posted:

What is the point of taking 2 photon torpedos on the same ship? Is it just to shoot them two rounds back to back without wasting an action to recharge it?

P. much. If the Portas had the crew slots, I'd just say take Lojur for 3 points for essentially the same benefit.


Sir DonkeyPunch posted:

Just cracked open the RIS Vo. Man, this thing is maneuverable; not a single red maneuver, can come about at a 2 white.

wild

edit: oh, apparently the Apnex has a similar move profile

Yeah, it's like a super-Apnex. If it had a weapon slot, it would be neat because you could put that Additional Weapon Array on it and have a really tough to hit flanker. If you wanted to invest 10 points trying to turn it into something worthwhile, I suppose you could flagship it, put a weapon on it (AWA being my preference), and have it actually have a little punch as well as 4 base evade.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


zVxTeflon posted:

What is the point of taking 2 photon torpedos on the same ship? Is it just to shoot them two rounds back to back without wasting an action to recharge it?

Yeah, the Portis is basically a boat you load with torpedos and then never have to enable them.

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell

Jonas Albrecht posted:

Yeah, the Portis is basically a boat you load with torpedos and then never have to enable them.

I occasionally play it with two energy dissipator and two torps, that's fun


On the list topic, I'm trying to come up with an OP4 list that's faction pure Fed, can't decide if I can cram three ships in there or leave it at 2 super kitted up with crew

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


Sir DonkeyPunch posted:

I occasionally play it with two energy dissipator and two torps, that's fun


On the list topic, I'm trying to come up with an OP4 list that's faction pure Fed, can't decide if I can cram three ships in there or leave it at 2 super kitted up with crew

The scenario in OP4 seems to favor the super ship. I'd go with two.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Sir DonkeyPunch posted:

On the list topic, I'm trying to come up with an OP4 list that's faction pure Fed, can't decide if I can cram three ships in there or leave it at 2 super kitted up with crew

I feel like a two-ship build is the best way to captalize on the purestrain Federation's best assets: High skill captains, great crew and upgrades, and Going First. Trying to squeeze in 3 ships you have to skimp either on cool secondaries, cool crew, or high skill captains, or all three.

That said of course it's brittle as Hell, but eh. It FEELS Federation-y to be outnumbered going in with badass captains.

What do you have access to for feds?

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell

Otisburg posted:

I feel like a two-ship build is the best way to captalize on the purestrain Federation's best assets: High skill captains, great crew and upgrades, and Going First. Trying to squeeze in 3 ships you have to skimp either on cool secondaries, cool crew, or high skill captains, or all three.

That said of course it's brittle as Hell, but eh. It FEELS Federation-y to be outnumbered going in with badass captains.

What do you have access to for feds?

I have one of all the retail releases

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Sir DonkeyPunch posted:

I have one of all the retail releases

Whelp, my OP4 list is going to look something like:

Command Tokens

Excelsior
JLP
Feint
Spock
Romulan Pilot
Q-Torps
Transwarp

Defiant
Sisko
O'Brien (Starter)
Romulan Pilot
Q-Torps
Transwarp


You can probably sub in cloak for the Transwarp on the defiant, and the 5-points torps for the q-torps. And natch you may well not have two Romulan Pilots (and want to be fed pure anyway.)

With the spare points you can either upgrade the Defiant to the Ent-D, and/or add anti-matter mines which I find a great counter to cloakers, those little fleets that want to stay in one packed ball to share buffs, and cloaked versions of those little ball fleets.

Pretty much my top teir ships right now are the Excelsior, Defiant, and D. That free scan is great and the Excelsior is in some ways better than the D (actual 180 arc rather than the virtual 360 at shorter range only for primaries). The Defiant maneuvers very well and is tough, but I think the cloak is a trap since it carries most of its durability in the shields. I tend to not bother with equipping the cloak. And the Ent-D is of course our undisputed dreadnaught and like to be until the E drops.

Captains I like to run JLP because seriously come on, and Sisko makes a solid second captain in my book. Good passive ability, still has firing initiative on a lot of likely opponents if you're keeping him in a fed ship.

Crew wise, Spock is situationally pretty good, and just cash money on the Exelsior. O'Brien makes a great cheap hedge against Interphase Generator, Barrage of Fire, or whatever dumb tech/crew/weapon you're scared of. I honestly don't like Sulu that much. I'd rather spend my action buffing my attack, and slug it out taking it right on the chin. Rand can be good for action economy, Scotty is nice because that attack buff is righteous and shield repair is always nice for those 15 rounds you spend on the other side of the planet trying to get the D to do a 3-point turn and make another attack pass.

Q-Torps are good, and Anti-matter mines are VASTLY under-rated in my book, particularly to fill that second weapon slot.

I think Transwarp is solid after practicing with it a bit. The fact that you get to decide to use it or not on the dial reveal makes it almost like a verticle sensor echo. It works well with our high-initiative captains. Wait for everyone to show their position, and then either blow past and out of arcs to fart torpedos/mines, or just have a "safe" turn out of their arcs to find a better position.

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004




I have no clue how to do this OP4 so i figure ill just blow my enemy up real good with my alpha(male) strike. Hows this look?

Negvar class 28
Picard 7
once more unto the breach 5

Vorcha class 26
Donatra 5

Cardassian keldon class 24
Gul Dukat 5

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell

Otisburg posted:

Whelp, my OP4 list is going to look something like:

:words:

Thanks a ton!

I have a single Romulan Pilot, will probably deploy that handsome lady(?)

I don't think I've ever actually used mines before, I'll give them a shot. The guy who's one of the local consistent winners is a big fan of running all his stuff around wheel to wheel

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Sir DonkeyPunch posted:

Thanks a ton!

I have a single Romulan Pilot, will probably deploy that handsome lady(?)

I don't think I've ever actually used mines before, I'll give them a shot. The guy who's one of the local consistent winners is a big fan of running all his stuff around wheel to wheel

My whole idea is to transwarp forward, romulan pilot forward, catch them on the very first turn, and kill them very hard.

And yeah blow past that dude with transwarp and fart out mines on his cluster of nonsense.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



zVxTeflon posted:

I have no clue how to do this OP4 so i figure ill just blow my enemy up real good with my alpha(male) strike. Hows this look?

Negvar class 28
Picard 7
once more unto the breach 5

Vorcha class 26
Donatra 5

Cardassian keldon class 24
Gul Dukat 5

Seems okay to me. Being able to go to Battlestations on 2 of your big-die ships really makes the dice count for more.

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell

Otisburg posted:

My whole idea is to transwarp forward, romulan pilot forward, catch them on the very first turn, and kill them very hard.

And yeah blow past that dude with transwarp and fart out mines on his cluster of nonsense.

So I subbed out the Defiant for the D... but the D doesn't have a slot for a Tech, so I'll rely on Uhura or the Cochrane Maneuver to put me where i need to drop the mines for maximum impact. I may play with putting the Defiant back in. I'm hoping to stay on the periphery with the Excelsior, make sure I can maximize its ability as well as keep back in Q torps range

thoughts?


USS Excelsior
Jean-Luc Picard
Feint
Mr. Spock
Quantum Torpedoes
Transwarp Drive


USS Enterprise-D
Benjamin Sisko
Cochrane Deceleration Maneuver
Miles O'Brien (base)
Antimatter Mines
Photon Torpedoes
Nyota Uhura

EDIT: This is not a legal list, do not use

Sir DonkeyPunch fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Dec 10, 2013

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Sir DonkeyPunch posted:

So I subbed out the Defiant for the D... but the D doesn't have a slot for a Tech, so I'll rely on Uhura or the Cochrane Maneuver to put me where i need to drop the mines for maximum impact. I may play with putting the Defiant back in. I'm hoping to stay on the periphery with the Excelsior, make sure I can maximize its ability as well as keep back in Q torps range

thoughts?


USS Excelsior
Jean-Luc Picard
Feint
Mr. Spock
Quantum Torpedoes
Transwarp Drive


USS Enterprise-D
Benjamin Sisko
Cochrane Deceleration Maneuver
Miles O'Brien (base)
Antimatter Mines
Photon Torpedoes
Nyota Uhura

Looks good to me. I crunched the numbers and assuming a scan token and Spock, Scotty is actually worth more hits on an alpha strike than Feint, if you can spare the other point.

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell

Otisburg posted:

Looks good to me. I crunched the numbers and assuming a scan token and Spock, Scotty is actually worth more hits on an alpha strike than Feint, if you can spare the other point.

Good point. And he's usable more than once theoretically.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



Sir DonkeyPunch posted:

Good point. And he's usable more than once theoretically.

And rolling a bigger fistful of attack dice is more emotionally satisfying than denying them defense dice.

Plus shield repair tech is always handy.

(note my calculations were based on being able to convert battlestations on the attack dice vs your opponent rolling straight def dice. If they can reroll or convert or anything that might change my spergmath)

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell

Otisburg posted:

And rolling a bigger fistful of attack dice is more emotionally satisfying than denying them defense dice.

As a Vulcan I reject this premise entirely

quote:

(note my calculations were based on being able to convert battlestations on the attack dice vs your opponent rolling straight def dice. If they can reroll or convert or anything that might change my spergmath)

I'll write a strongly worded post if it fails me. :colbert:

RupertWalpole
Jun 22, 2009

Otisburg posted:

Having tried some proxy transwarp let me tell you that it's pretty boss. Being able to choose between 4 and 6 ahead on the reveal allows for some tricksiness, almost like a verticle sensor echo, and the flat-out speed of it allows for some cool stuff to occur.

You don't even have to eject a female crew member to do it. I used that maneuver in a friendly game yesterday to inch out just far enough for a rear torpedo shot while maneuvering the D in position to hit 2 of 3 Klingons with antimatter mines.

Has anyone seen someone in OP4 actually attacking the planet? I think maybe 1 of the players in mine did, while the rest of us treated it as pure deathmatch.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



RupertWalpole posted:

Has anyone seen someone in OP4 actually attacking the planet? I think maybe 1 of the players in mine did, while the rest of us treated it as pure deathmatch.

It's a 25 point swing if you take out starfleet and your opponent doesn't, so it might be worth doing, but I'd probably build a cloaked fleet to do it similar to OP2.

EDIT: Since I'm ~immersed in roleplaying~ the United Federation of Planets I'll be defending SFHQ, but if you can find a way to mitigate the attacks it gets you it's not a bad idea. It's not as huge as the OP3 objective, but it could still swing individual games and depending on turnout in your venue could even impact the tiebreaker for the whole thing.

Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Dec 9, 2013

Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell

RupertWalpole posted:

Has anyone seen someone in OP4 actually attacking the planet? I think maybe 1 of the players in mine did, while the rest of us treated it as pure deathmatch.

Well, I had to miss the event night of my "normal" group, but if there's no victory points at stake, I'm guessing they played it the same, kill kill kill

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004




Whats the cheapest ship with a reverse move? I thought about using a ship to back and forth straddle range 3 of the tokens/Earth(hopfully in range of only 1 turret) and snipe the planet while two other ships deal with the other guy.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



zVxTeflon posted:

Whats the cheapest ship with a reverse move? I thought about using a ship to back and forth straddle range 3 of the tokens/Earth(hopfully in range of only 1 turret) and snipe the planet while two other ships deal with the other guy.

If I'm not mistaken you're looking for the Reliant/Miranda Class.

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Sir DonkeyPunch
Mar 23, 2007

I didn't hear no bell

Otisburg posted:

If I'm not mistaken you're looking for the Reliant/Miranda Class.

Yeah, but he'd be rolling a single dice against the HQ

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