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ShineDog posted:Energy management gone because everything is so enormously ramped, and I'm pouring 500 bullets into a thing with little effect because the damage modelling is still quite realistic when it probably shouldn't be in arcade mode While disagreeing pretty much across the board, I'd like to pick on this bit. Energy management isn't gone at all in WT arcade: it's less than historical, but Germany is considered the most "OP" nation (skill highly supercedes plane abilities though, so it doesn't matter much) in WT at the moment because they're (the 109 and FW) very lethal when played properly by maintaining energy (BnZing all day, every day). You're describing the exact opposite of realism. The more realistic, the less bullets/cannon rounds it takes to kill a plane. Which, including WoWP, means the time to kill looks like this (theoretically): WT full-real battles (FRB), historical, arcade, WoWP. Of course, there are other mitigating factors in that the more realistic flight models (and other aspects) make actually killing planes in FRB and historical more difficult, but each MG/cannon impact causes a lot more damage to the target in these modes which directly contradicts your comment. Given the above, you're actually asking them to make arcade more realistic (unless you're referring to the fact that you have to place your shots as making it "realistic", but I thought WoWP had that too and I know WoT does). I'd counter this isn't necessary at all and I can only think of three reasons for your issue: you've been playing undergunned planes (Japan, in particular, tends to lack firepower; below tier 4~5 most nations do, making the PBY and H6K beastly at staying alive), you aren't aiming for weak spots (pretty much anywhere besides the tail, also the tail-side of the wing on bombers), or you're simply missing a ton (like your average WT player). The time to kill in arcade (with a good run) on a fighter should be 1~7 seconds (depending on your armament vs their armor); for a bomber it varies greatly (planes with 37mm+ cannons can do it in one shot to the wing, for example), but I'll throw out 5~20 seconds as a reasonable time to kill if you're landing shots in useful areas. I'm not sure how this compares to the current state of WoWP, but I'd imagine it's less. If anything, your reason seems strange because I thought many people who prefer WoWP over WT was that it was too quick to kill/die in WT arcade. Edit: Apparently the time to kill is consistently short in WoWP according to xthetenth so that throws some of this off. bUm fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 25, 2013 23:23
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Darkrenown posted:In what way did it save Britain's bacon? It was a great plane of course, but the UK was pretty secure by the time it started getting used for combat. Because it actually did jobs that contributed to the war effort: tactical bombing, surgical type strikes as opposed to carpet bombing civilians to 'break morale'. Joe Public only knows about Lancasters, spitfires and hurricanes but for me, the Mosquitos and their pilots were the ones who really contributed. "save Britain's bacon" probably a crap turn of phrase, Britain had already held off the attack waves coming over the channel. I have a soft spot for Typhoons too, I'd love to see those appear in the UK tree sometime.
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Nov 25, 2013 23:27
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WoWP times to kill planes are more like consistently 1-2 seconds. They don't have the stupid frustrating high outliers where it just takes forever to kill someone. It's longer for low tier undergunned planes but not by too much if you can shoot.
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Nov 25, 2013 23:28
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The one really frustrating thing about WoWP is when you get placed on the really bad teams is unless you are in the only heavy/energy fighter in the match your chances of pulling off a win are basically zero because 10-14 dudes can get vaporized in under a minute because they all just stay spread out and fly right towards the enemy at the level they start and have no chance. I don't know what it is about the heavies, I understand BnZ but the only way I see being able to play them is on a heavy dose of meds because you need to be chill as gently caress because any impatience can easily lead to dying. The Light German and American fighters are more my speed, still energy fighters but can maneuver especially when you factor in their flaps. The 109 B might need some nerfs though, that plane seems to come with antigrav units its able to gain altitude at such a fast rate. The only other planes that seems to work like it are the jets.
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Nov 26, 2013 01:11
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(Going to caveat by saying that it has been a few months since playing WT, so this may be out of date)bUm posted:While disagreeing pretty much across the board, I'd like to pick on this bit. Yes, but the exagerations meant that I was doing worryingly well dogfighting in my Do217, it should be a bus, but the flight model meant I could get my guns onto targets I had no business targeting and evaporate them under it's enormous firepower. quote:You're describing the exact opposite of realism. The more realistic, the less bullets/cannon rounds it takes to kill a plane. Which, including WoWP, means the time to kill looks like this (theoretically): WT full-real battles (FRB), historical, arcade, WoWP. Of course, there are other mitigating factors in that the more realistic flight models (and other aspects) make actually killing planes in FRB and historical more difficult, but each MG/cannon impact causes a lot more damage to the target in these modes which directly contradicts your comment. You'll frequently find in any kind of realistic flight sim that if you don't have cannons on your plane you can pour an absolutely astounding amount of MG fire into an enemy plane and get basically squat. The bullet passes through the plane and leaves the actual aerodynamic function of the surface largely intact and spang off machinery with fairly low odds of a kill. Once cannons come into it, sure, but the fact that you get the effect of seeing huge volumes of bullets whiff through the fuselage might be fine for a sim but I find that in an arcade battle I'd much rather have a healthbar and bring the battle down to mechanical play. quote:Given the above, you're actually asking them to make arcade more realistic (unless you're referring to the fact that you have to place your shots as making it "realistic", but I thought WoWP had that too and I know WoT does). I'd counter this isn't necessary at all and I can only think of three reasons for your issue: you've been playing undergunned planes (Japan, in particular, tends to lack firepower; below tier 4~5 most nations do, making the PBY and H6K beastly at staying alive), you aren't aiming for weak spots (pretty much anywhere besides the tail, also the tail-side of the wing on bombers), or you're simply missing a ton (like your average WT player). The time to kill in arcade (with a good run) on a fighter should be 1~7 seconds (depending on your armament vs their armor); for a bomber it varies greatly (planes with 37mm+ cannons can do it in one shot to the wing, for example), but I'll throw out 5~20 seconds as a reasonable time to kill if you're landing shots in useful areas. Yes, but theres a huge variance there and you can see huge variances in outcome that come down to luck as much as judgement. I can put rounds in the cockpit area and get nothing, I can put rounds into the cockpit area and spiff the pilots head. I can pour fire into a wing and see no effect or I could saw the wing off. I can get dinked by some clown from across the map and lose a control surface. All of these outcomes are realistic, but I don't like seeing them in arcade. quote:I'm not sure how this compares to the current state of WoWP, but I'd imagine it's less. If anything, your reason seems strange because I thought many people who prefer WoWP over WT was that it was too quick to kill/die in WT arcade. I know the damage modelling has had the edges filed off from HB/FRB, but there's a strong element of chance in Arcade that I'm not a fan of. WoWP is a very artificial, structure games. The way boost is modelled, the way accuracy and damage are modelled, these have nothing to do with realism at all. It's just the mechanics of the game at play, the factor of "bullet lands 3 cm to left and so I am dead" is significantly diminished. So yeah, I like that WoWP feels less random, And I like that the flight model and mechanics actually feel coherent despite being silly, they all serve the type of combat wargaming actually want to make, and I think the combat actually flows because of that rather than the kind of clusterfuck that WT arcade felt like. War Thunders arcade mode feels like something bodged together to me. Maybe it's better now though, I'll give it another shot.
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Nov 26, 2013 02:28
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The WT vs WoP thing is dumb because WT was built on a super stable air-game platform (Wings of Prey) while Wargaming is a Belorussian team famous for making tin cans shoot at each other trying to make a air based game (and a naval base game too!). I find it that with the Soviets you can't really fight at high altitudes since as soon as your nose rises your speed plummets into a stall. They are however really good if you can dodge a maniac boomer and then tear their asses up with your superior agility. The game is also weird with the damage. You absolutely shred people if you dive in from above but you do much less damage if the enemy is bellow you but flying towards you. If you can light up an enemy from the side they'll also suffer tons of damage yet they seem to be harder to kill directly from the back. Trying to shoot a plane flying above you is almost always wasting ammo.
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Nov 26, 2013 05:19
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Mans posted:The game is also weird with the damage. You absolutely shred people if you dive in from above but you do much less damage if the enemy is bellow you but flying towards you. If you can light up an enemy from the side they'll also suffer tons of damage yet they seem to be harder to kill directly from the back. Trying to shoot a plane flying above you is almost always wasting ammo. There's a reason for this, and it's kind of stupid. See, back around the time of the end of closed beta, the dynamic was significantly different. Energy Fighting was pretty much underpowered- there wasn't enough difference in performance between energy fighters and turn fighters to matter. In fact, Heavy fighters were barely worth it past the first kill because they'd just get shredded after the first dive. The P-51A was not the best plane in the game- in fact, the general consensus was that it was the worst plane in the game for its tier, outperformed by the P-40 in many cases. In order to make energy fighters worthwhile, Wargaming added a huge, and I mean ridiculously huge bloom penalty to firing upwards to allow energy fighters to disengage. That worked fine throughout the month of July and August (I actually think the game was reasonably balanced back then, barring exceptional cases like the P-51A and the A7M which did get buffed when it was moved up a tier). However, with the introduction of the British planes in patch 0.5.3, Wargaming made probably the worst design decision possible and made the planes in each perform similarly- American/German energy fighters, Soviet/Japanese turn fighters, British all-rounders, etc. No tests, nobody to say "hey, maybe we should think twice before we do a huge rebalance." The result is the game in its present state, sans a few minor nerfs made in the release patch. Of course, they forgot to remove the aim penalty. Without that, I think the game might be a lot more playable, because an energy fighter would still lose a significant chunk of health every time they make a pass and climb. As it stands, it's super easy to make diving passes and take minimal damage even through the thickest formations.
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Nov 26, 2013 05:34
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I don't know but I typically punch it and fly as high as I can at the buzzer but find myself getting ripped to pieces by planes below me coming up to engage now. Flying down to meet them does not do much for me; as soon as I noticed I am getting hit from below and change my angle to meet the attacker I am in flames shortly thereafter. I have to be doing something wrong but then again what am I to do when I have the altitude advantage and they can rip my rear end out form under me before I have a chance to react?
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Nov 26, 2013 16:54
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demonR6 posted:I don't know but I typically punch it and fly as high as I can at the buzzer but find myself getting ripped to pieces by planes below me coming up to engage now. Flying down to meet them does not do much for me; as soon as I noticed I am getting hit from below and change my angle to meet the attacker I am in flames shortly thereafter. I have to be doing something wrong but then again what am I to do when I have the altitude advantage and they can rip my rear end out form under me before I have a chance to react? What are you flying? Shooting upwards is diminished, it's not useless.
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Nov 26, 2013 17:11
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ShineDog posted:What are you flying? Shooting upwards is diminished, it's not useless. I've been playing through the low tiers, mostly 3's and 4's. What is happening is that at the start I immediately hit the boost and get the most extreme angle bearable to get to max altitude. By the time we get the first encounter, lets use El Halluf as the example as it seems like all I see is that loving maps anyways.. when I reach the big lake the team has already engaged. I'll spot my closest target and before I can even react they are burning me down from below. I sometimes do not even have enough time to engage before I get jumped and killed. That or some shitlord just loving rams me as I am engaging because we know that is 50% or the pubbie strat. They need to add the battle recorder already and this would be so much more easy to see what the hell I am doing wrong.
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Nov 26, 2013 17:31
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What is your max altitude? 1600-1700 is what tiers 3s usually get to, I think. You should stay away from poo poo with autocannons, just barrel roll until they shoot by you, and turn to get on their tail.
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Nov 26, 2013 18:35
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Darkrenown posted:In what way did it save Britain's bacon? It was a great plane of course, but the UK was pretty secure by the time it started getting used for combat. Well, UK was safe even before Battle of Britain so there were hardly any bacon to save. The Beaufighter was a multipurpose plane, that started out as night fighter and continued on as a torpedo bomber.
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Nov 26, 2013 21:46
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Yeah, that number sounds right.. it's not that I cannot avoid the poo poo with autocannons, I am being burned down as they climb to meet me. That or the fuckers just ram me which is not uncommon at that level.
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Nov 26, 2013 21:48
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Triggerhappypilot posted:There's a reason for this, and it's kind of stupid. For some reason, I don't remember BnZers being bad to play back in closed beta. The worst aircraft in the german heavy line was the FW-57, and it wasn't bad. Up to the 410 they were all wonders. The 109 was great in all its versions if you kept it lean. A regular joe like myself could easily carry the team by playing either line smart. Good players would completely rape in them. Shwedor, for instance, was much more dangerous in his tri-jet (which name I cannot recall) than most other players in the OP gutless. Most people had problems with them because they insisted in trying to turn the drat things instead of running away. The problem is WG loves to fix what's not broken instead of fixing what is broken. Also, the way they patched was wrong. Instead of changing one thing at a time to actually pinpoint what was wrong (for instance, flight model) they messed with many parts of the game at the same time. When you change the controls, flight model and introduce new aircraft all in one patch, it's hard to know whether your flight model still suck or it is the controls that are the problem.
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Nov 26, 2013 21:52
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I'm quite surprised there isn't one or two maps just for Tier I aircraft just for plain old dog fighting as the ground meta game really is confusing and it takes forever to destroy things.
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Nov 26, 2013 21:54
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SeanBeansShako posted:I'm quite surprised there isn't one or two maps just for Tier I aircraft just for plain old dog fighting as the ground meta game really is confusing and it takes forever to destroy things. Ahhhh, don't shoot ground targets with the piddly tier 1 machine guns. It's generally not worth it unless you have a bunch of bombs or rockets. Even then, you don't really want them on a front-line fighter, because they give a penalty to your performance, and it forces you into low-altitude engagements. I suppose it might be alright to put some bombs on the Russian fighters. Still, giving up altitude is just begging people to dive on you.
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Nov 26, 2013 22:07
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demonR6 posted:Yeah, that number sounds right.. it's not that I cannot avoid the poo poo with autocannons, I am being burned down as they climb to meet me. That or the fuckers just ram me which is not uncommon at that level. Don't get in a head-on attack with planes that have autocannons. Also, you shouldn't be boost climbing by the time you get to engagement distances. Don't be afraid to double back and let someone else go in front of you. As long as you can kill a plane faster than the average pubbie (It takes them around 5 minutes), it's always better to let them go ahead and soak up all the damage. If a flank is dangerously low on planes, just turn around and go a different direction. It's the same as in Tanks.
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Nov 26, 2013 22:09
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Ahhhh, don't shoot ground targets with the piddly tier 1 machine guns. Russian fighters have rockets, which are a really horrible surprise for anyone engaging you in a head-on attack.
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Nov 26, 2013 22:18
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Ugh, the Ar. 197 is really hard to control if its pilot has Engine Guru, even the slightest dive puts your speed up in the red zone so you really have to throttle back and use flaps to keep it turning like its supposed to. WG really needs to start the Ad campaigns, the piddly player base really amplifies the downside to +-2 MM along with platoons running the OP planes. And is the 7pm EST reset throwing anyone else off? It just feels so weird after tanks has been resetting at server reset for the past while.
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Nov 27, 2013 01:04
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The Ar. 197 just doesn't really cut it in general. It's way too slow and not maneuverable enough- the only upside is that it explodes things like crazy because it has essentially the armament of a 110B. The 110C-6, on the other hand, has consistently been a treat. I've oneshot nearly every I-16 and I-17 I've come across, and there are so many dead Blenheims and Fw-57s it's not even funny. I really need to get video of this thing, because it's loving ridiculous- and this is without my broken engine-guru pilot. He's on the Bf109B, which for all intents and purposes is now a Tier V fighter.
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Nov 27, 2013 02:55
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This game is always dead at night  Anyway, weekend's special is 20% extra credits for tier III to V planes that can strap bombs on plus 30% ammo discount. Not as god as last weekend's special, that's for sure.
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Nov 29, 2013 01:43
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Rumor has it that the test server will be up with 1.1 sometime next week. I find this slightly dubious as we haven't heard a peep aside from that the Fw-190 line is getting added, but then again we don't have an FTR-like source for Warplanes.
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Dec 4, 2013 01:06
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Never mind, the test server is up today! Here are the patch notes. They finally fixed the goddamn upward dispersion issue with guns, and there are general buffs to Russian and Japanese fighters to make them more competitive. Thank god. The big feature of the patch, is, of course, the introduction of the FW190 line. You get mostly Heinkel planes up to tier V, then the 190 prototype, the 190A, the 190D, the Ta-152, and the Focke Wulf prototypes. Of course, the best news is  the P-40 M105 is back!on the other hand: Il-2 mod. Blech, I thought we had seen the last of that.
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Dec 4, 2013 18:06
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Huh, so I was right with my guess that it'd be out very soon. Also yeah, I'm optimistic it'll make turn fighters playable without pushing things too far in the other direction, which has kinda been a hallmark of their balancing for a long time.
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Dec 4, 2013 19:01
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Triggerhappypilot posted:Never mind, the test server is up today! Yeah I just finished reading the article. So long as they've done enough to stop one heavy fighter picking off 9 or 10 people at next to zero danger to themselves I'll call it a success. The bug fixes are icing really. I've not logged on for a week or two simply because the BnZ thing was just too prevalent. until the patch goes live it'll just be a frenzy of last minute stat padding I suspect.
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Dec 4, 2013 21:28
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I like that I'm seeing China as an option in all the nation selectors on the test server. Also finally remembered to test out buying camo/emblem/nose paint for a plane, selling the plane, then re-buying it. It came back with all the paint I'd bought.
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Dec 5, 2013 06:27
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Generalissimo posted:I like that I'm seeing China as an option in all the nation selectors on the test server. Also finally remembered to test out buying camo/emblem/nose paint for a plane, selling the plane, then re-buying it. It came back with all the paint I'd bought. Wow, between that and the option to select every module in storage to sell at once you would think that WG didn't actually love punishing players.
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Dec 6, 2013 01:59
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Shared free experience is coming tomorrow between WoT and WoWP. Time for me to skip a shitload of crap planes!
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Dec 9, 2013 18:59
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-Troika- posted:Shared free experience is coming tomorrow between WoT and WoWP. Time for me to skip a shitload of crap planes! I went and read http://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/46/free-exp-wot-wowp/ to see if there was a catch or anything. Instead I found this gem, I can barely breathe for laughter quote:please remember that the ability to unlock a plane is not the same as the ability to handle it. There is no substitute for the skills that you acquire from unlocking planes tier by tier as you used to in the past 
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Dec 10, 2013 17:12
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Ratzap posted:I went and read http://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/46/free-exp-wot-wowp/ to see if there was a catch or anything. Instead I found this gem, I can barely breathe for laughter Blood for the blood god.
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Dec 10, 2013 17:22
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http://worldofwarplanes.com/en/news/18/third-times-charm/ Oh man :WG: Unable to even start their own weekend events.
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Dec 14, 2013 00:20
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You mean they crashed their event?  Is the patch with the turn fighting buff already added? 3x3 are really tasty but i don't think i can come back to this game while they're so hopeless.
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Dec 14, 2013 02:51
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So how long until they do something about these stupid blatantly OP German and American planes? Getting tired of this poo poo, even my new La-5 can't stand up to them. e: I can't read. Dear god this patch can't hit soon enough though. rossmum fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 08:33
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I'm not really a fan of the heavy fighters as I favour more agile planes, such as the Japanese A6M line and the Soviet La-5 line, but I decided to splurge on the BF110C-6. Jesus jumpin' Christ this thing absolutely melts enemy planes  . I can't believe this plane does that much damage at Tier 4. Just line up an unlucky SOB and a 2-3 second burst absolutely annihilates any light fighter.
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Dec 15, 2013 16:08
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Wargaming just released what the gift plane will be. It's a Tier II Curtiss Hawk III (improved F11C). Except it's Chinese. see for yourself. I guess they can't ignore China as a money-making market. Let's just hope we don't end up with a Tier 8 MiG-15 clone that has to be removed from the store like the Type 59.
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Dec 15, 2013 19:09
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I understand that China is a big market but a French or Italian tree would be much an easier\more original tree to make before a Chinese one.
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Dec 16, 2013 14:01
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Mans posted:I understand that China is a big market but a French or Italian tree would be much an easier\more original tree to make before a Chinese one. Yes, but then they can't reuse assets to make AVG P-36 and P-40s for the first five or six tiers.
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Dec 16, 2013 17:07
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Triggerhappypilot posted:Wargaming just released what the gift plane will be. It's a Tier II Curtiss Hawk III (improved F11C). God a Tier 2 Premium, Talk about the ultimate seal clubber what with the fact that all tier 2 planes are unable to be matched against tier 4 planes. The question is now will it be an actual chinese premium for when they get planes eventually or will it just be an american premium. And its time to start saving up credits for buying equipment when it gets discounted on the 24th.
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Dec 17, 2013 02:30
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It appears RU is getting 1.1 tomorrow so NA shouldn't be too far behind. Can't come soon enough you can tell the current meta is Energy when you see a flight of 3 WG dudes all flying 110-Cs although if they aren't careful with the buffs to turnfighters the Japanese tier 4-5 planes might be very powerful if they can actually fly up now as well as outturn just about everything that isn't a bi-plane. No special on Camo is a bit depressing though, I want my god drat planes to be loving invisible until I open up on some helpless pubbie at 500m.
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Dec 18, 2013 02:38
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Sphrin posted:It appears RU is getting 1.1 tomorrow so NA shouldn't be too far behind. Can't come soon enough you can tell the current meta is Energy when you see a flight of 3 WG dudes all flying 110-Cs although if they aren't careful with the buffs to turnfighters the Japanese tier 4-5 planes might be very powerful if they can actually fly up now as well as outturn just about everything that isn't a bi-plane. Europe is also getting the patch tomorrow (the 19th) although I'll probably leave it a few days before I bother patching. See if they actually fixed it.
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Dec 19, 2013 03:44
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