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Cardiovorax posted:It'd probably be the most merciful thing to do to the series. I played Overlord, I don' have too much trust in his daughter's writing sklls.
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Dec 15, 2013 13:52
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The Evil Thing posted:Based purely on the Overlord games I'd be inclined to agree, but it's so hard to judge fairly, given that she was up against people who made videogames, and all the baggage that goes with that. Yeah man, I remember reading an interview with Harlan Ellison about the IHNMAIMS game adaptation, and he made a big point about how your ability to write novels doesn't necessarily translate well to writing for video games. At least, I think it was Ellison and I Have No Mouth... Overlord wasn't that bad really, IMO. A bit juvenile, sure, but it felt like early-Discworld to me, when it was a lot more about having fun with generic fantasy stereotypes than big thematic stuff.
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Dec 15, 2013 14:05
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That is the sassiest butler. 
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Dec 16, 2013 03:26
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The Evil Thing posted:Based purely on the Overlord games I'd be inclined to agree, but it's so hard to judge fairly, given that she was up against people who made videogames, and all the baggage that goes with that. As a writer for video games (albeit games you've probably never heard of), I can back this up. I'm inclined to give her a chance at the actual novel writing before I dismiss it. It's a hard thing to live up to though, because one's writing improves with experience (both at writing and at life) and her first attempts are likely to be compared unfavourably with Pterry at the peak of his talents.
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Dec 16, 2013 12:06
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Chalk another one up for not thinking the writing for the Overlord series being bad. There are even signs of it improving. The twist near the end of Overlord 2 caught me so completely off guard that I still laugh at my own dumbfounded reaction. And that butler truly is the sassiest. Keep 'em episodes coming, Bacter! I'm fairly sure he has some more lines later on!
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Dec 16, 2013 21:37
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Looking over her wikipedia page, I'd say she's not got the worst portfolio- she worked on the 2008 Prince of Perisa game, which I didn't like all that much because I think at the time I had entirely overloaded on Nolan North, but I remember the writing being pretty decent. Plus she apparently worked on Bioshock Infinite, and that's a pretty good sign. All in all, I'd be certainly willing to give her work a shot, in the entirely hypothetical case of her taking over the writing of future Discworld books. e. To stay on topic, I'm just adoring the Big Sleep allusions in this episode. Can never get enough Chandler.
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Dec 16, 2013 22:01
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Success! The latest video is succesfully subtitled - make sure you select "English-Transcript" NOW onto the next one! Good odds on it up tomorrow!
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Dec 18, 2013 08:37
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Bacter posted:Success! Thank you! I have something to do in my lunch break now 
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Dec 18, 2013 14:40
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That reference you were wondering about in regards to the tooth is a Ren and Stimpy reference, talking about the History Eraser button. Can he resist pushing it? Nope.
evilmiera fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 11:29
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Thanks to my negligence in posting links, evilmiera looks like a time traveler! But thanks evilmiera! I... actually didn't expect a Ren and Stimpy reference in this material - are they a thing in Britain? I always sort of assumed they were an American phenomenon. Or maybe the (American dev) team inserted it, and Pratchett was like 'Eh? Wossis 'en? Plum puddin' guv'?" but the Yankee team just told him not to worry his pretty little head about it, and ate some apple pie? Either way!  (Veterans of the game will cringe just seeing the photo) NEW UPDATE SWEET CRIMINY! I think you'll really enjoy this update! We EVEN get to a major point in the game! Let's spoilertag what happens at two major points in this update (you'll know the ones) for... like, I dunno, until a day or two from now? Or until the page changes, whichever comes first. BUT GUYS, TWO MAJOR PLOT POINTS IN THIS UPDATE, AND THEY ARE BOTH PRETTY UNEXPECTED! PREPARE FOR STARTLEMENT! P.S. Special guest has been moved to NEXT UPDATE, mainly because I want to keep a decent update schedule, and I put off getting this one ready for far too long. Sorry Anoia! (It's Anoia, the guest is Anoia) Bacter fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 14:27
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It's been said before but the butler is great. Um, I think I found one of the plot points wrong body, oh noes. But it wasn't really unexpected.
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Dec 19, 2013 15:39
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OK, so I've got a couple of things to comment on here. Let's start with Mankin. Elves are not native to Discworld. They're creatures from a "parasite universe" who come to Discworld occasionally for entertainment, and what they find entertaining generally includes torture, murder and general unpleasantness. Despite this, they're actually considered to be good by people who've never dealt with them before, because they have magic that makes them seem beautiful and kind. So it's actually kind of odd that Lewton would say that half-elves would be despised, because in the books that's not the case. In fact, it's kind of odd that he knows anything about elves at all, because their visits to Discworld are exceedingly rare and usually covered up by their magic. Elves are basically mythical creatures to most people on Discworld. Then there's a few things about trolls. Trolls in the books are made of a special type of magical rock that takes on the properties of nearby rocks when it's formed, so trolls look like whatever materials are common where they live, and male trolls are usually named for the rocks they resemble, so Malachite should probably be a lot greener and sparklier. In the books it would therefore be a lot easier to identify the body of a troll even after it had been reduced to rubble, because each troll's composition is different. All trolls have diamonds for teeth, because they eat ordinary rocks, and even with teeth that hard they still regrow them like sharks. Female trolls are usually not named for their appearance, but are instead named for colourful stones like "Ruby" or "Sapphire", but their appearance is as varied as male trolls. A troll's composition also affects their intelligence, largely due to the different thermal properties of the stone they're made of; troll brains work better when they're colder. Trolls made of diamond are extremely rare and the oldest living diamond troll at any given time is automatically king of all trolls everywhere. Diamond trolls are exceptionally intelligent regardless of temperature. Many trolls are around the same levels of intelligence as humans in Ankh-Morpork, and even the stupidest of trolls becomes a genius by human standards if the temperature drops enough (for example, in a magically refrigerated warehouse, in a desert at night or at the top of a mountain). Basically everyone who has ever illustrated trolls has ignored all this and just drawn them all grey (or yellow for some reason), including this game. In fact, as we've already seen, Lewton makes the point explicitly that the remains of one troll would be indistinguishable from any other. I find it quite disappointing, because Discworld trolls are, in my opinion, some of the most unique and interesting fantasy creatures and reducing them all to big, dumb and grey is a real wasted opportunity. Poil posted:Um, I think I found one of the plot points wrong body, oh noes. But it wasn't really unexpected. I think the other would be findign Mundy right at the end there.
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Dec 19, 2013 15:54
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Tiggum posted:So it's actually kind of odd that Lewton would say that half-elves would be despised, because in the books that's not the case.
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Dec 19, 2013 16:01
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Cardiovorax posted:Soul Music seems to disagree on that a bit. In the second timeline the teenage girls at the boarding school who are all talking about how cute Imp is say he looks a bit elvish as though it's a good thing. Though I should have added that trolls and dwarfs do hate elves and half-elves, but despite its current diversity Ankh-Morpork is and has been largely a human city, so Mankin's not likely to have had many issues there.
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Dec 19, 2013 16:10
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Tiggum posted:OK, so I've got a couple of things to comment on here. Let's start with Mankin. I'd say because people know that elves are bad news. It's just that their glamour magic is powerful enough to go past that. In Lords and Ladies, the book featuring elves, everyone over a certain age fear and despise them, and extend that dislike to their offsprings as well. If I'm recalling things, there was actually a couple of half evleves in the serie, but they have been shifted out of sight as the serie went on. Now regarding the von Uberwald, I'm rather surprised they would use that name, especially considering that this game was apparently released at the same time as The Fifth Elephant, in which another branch of the family features proeminently. And regarding the Selachii, they are a recurring noble family of Ankh Morpokh. Pretty rich, snobbish, and as eager to get any kind of power as any other members of the nobility, but they are not really criminals. The connection with the Assassin's guild comes from the fact that Discworld assassins are a spoof of the super classy, cultured and honourable career killers, meaning their school is actually one of the most prestigious on the Disc, so well-off people tend to send their kids there. That and the extra training is always helpful in a noble's life in Ankh Morpokh. Iceclaw fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 16:21
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Tiggum posted:In the second timeline the teenage girls at the boarding school who are all talking about how cute Imp is say he looks a bit elvish as though it's a good thing. Though I should have added that trolls and dwarfs do hate elves and half-elves, but despite its current diversity Ankh-Morpork is and has been largely a human city, so Mankin's not likely to have had many issues there. Tiggum posted:I think the other would be findign Mundy right at the end there.
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Dec 19, 2013 16:39
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So two points - elves and trolls. No argument about your troll point. I fully agree with it - they are a fascinating idea, and one not used to its full extent hardly ever. Do hang with the game, because we do get some different, and in my opinion much more interesting, trolls later. And consider this - malachite is just your traditional big dumb palooka, but it's not like that couldn't fit with a troll character. There are dumb humans, there should be dumb trolls too. And voice patterns of... well, every (non-diamond-or-cold) troll I've read in the book fit Malachite/Sapphire's. Detritus, Brick, even Crysoprase do the ME NOT MUCH FOR ARTICLES OR PRONOUNS thing. Malachite is in the plot, at this point, to be a strong motivator. His single-minded devotion and threatening presence give Lewton a reason to investigate Therma until we found out that Mundy went to the parrot, at which point the two cases are sufficiently tied together that we will presumably continue to investigate on our own steam, in addition to helping out Mount Malachite. And so far we've got two troll characters, and one of them is portrayed as quite a bit deeper than Malachite. I know we don't know much about Sapphire yet, but she's shown herself to be world-weary, able to keep up a banter with Lewton, and on top of the situation to (presumably) lie about Therma. She might have not know what was going on, but I don't think so. Sapphire is actually one of my favorite characters in the whole game - they don't, to this point, let us into her head hardly at all, and that's really effective. She's a troll, so how smart is she? Is she playing sort of dumb? Is she putting on the "oh I can't catch a break ever" thing as an act? How sharp is she? It's just done really really well. And we'll get more interesting trolls later, so just hang with us! Yes, malachite should be much greener, and I'm just going to assume that sapphire is a stage name, and that she shouldn't be an enormous gemstone. NOW: elves. This is my own understanding, so if I'm wrong, let me know. I think that in the Discworld setting, elves aren't actually evil. They're just classic sociopaths. They aren't creative, so they kidnap creative people. They can't have kids, so they kidnap children. They can't connect with the emotions of other people at all, so from that perspective, acts of cruelty are actually interesting and fun, because they get a huge reaction. They're compared to cats in the series, and cats aren't EVIL, they just don't care that the mouse is terrified - they're playing with it, and don't give two figs if the mouse is suffering. It's also true that elves are very stylish, but that's not to say that all half-elves would be - they might take more after their human parents. One pretty half-elf doesn't make all such progeny attractive! Plus, a lot of the attraction of elves depends on their glamor, as mentioned by Lewton and others in the thread. But as also mentioned, people know they're bad news. Trolls are I think immune to the glamor, and people put up huge iron boulders (elves hate iron) around the gateway between universes. And if there's going to be one human not taken in by glamors... So poor Mankin gets the worst of both worlds. He looks like an elf, which people know is bad news, but doesn't get the benefit of the elf glamor that makes people like them against their better judgement! Keep in mind, I'm not cage fighting you guys about this because I think you're WRONG, I just want to devil's advocate for the game! Bacter fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 16:52
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Iceclaw posted:
Well, I both agree and disagree! I was wrong about the criminal thing - because I forgot how crime works in Ankh-Morpork! For newcomers, crime has essentially been institutionalized in A-M, put under the control of the guilds, chiefly the thieves' guild and assassins' guild. It's sort of dubious to call a registered thief a CRIMINAL, because he's regulated and has contracts and etc. Same with assassins. Real criminals in A-M would be UNLICENSED criminals. For instance, the fact that the watch is investigating this series of murders means they were NOT performed by a licensed assassin. If they were, the paperwork would check out, and life would go on. But as for "just nobles", they definitely ARE associated with the assassin's guild, and more than just your standard noble family. Selachii men are always referenced as being actual practicing assassins, and pretty good ones at that. Incidentally "Selachii" means "relating to sharks". So while not actual criminals, the Selachiis are a) rich nobles and b) practicing assassins, putting them probably a notch or two above regular nobles in terms of "people you ought not to mess with". Which, considering how far regular nobles are up that list in A-M, is pretty impressive! Poil posted:
I was more referring to waking up to see him lying next to us, dead, and the watch there. And what even happened? Did he knock us out? Did somebody else? If they were gunning for him, why not kill him before now? I guess they needed us to lead them to Mundy? WHAT HAPPENED? Bacter fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 17:01
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If I remember correctly, when a place is being protected by the assassins guild it means the owner has paid the guild money so that anyone breaking in or damaging the property automatically has a contract on their life. 
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Dec 19, 2013 17:06
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Incidentally, there's something (that I totally didn't notice my first play through the game) that is REALLY WEIRD about the Malachite case. I don't think it's listed on a walkthrough anywhere, so I'll actually acknowledge it if somebody can guess it. BUT NO SPOILERS, JERKS! ONLY SAY STUFF WE KNOW AT THIS POINT!
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Dec 19, 2013 17:10
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Poil posted:If I remember correctly, when a place is being protected by the assassins guild it means the owner has paid the guild money so that anyone breaking in or damaging the property automatically has a contract on their life. That's the thief's guild, actually. And their concept of insurance. you pay a little something to the guild, and you have a nice card you can show to would be muggers to tell them to pick another victim or risk the guild's wrath. The Assassins wouldn't go for something so base. Bacter posted:
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Dec 19, 2013 17:15
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Yeah fair enough - I'll buy that interpretation. But keep in mind that for this game at least, the Selachii are "dangerous people you shouldn't muck about with, you fool".
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Dec 19, 2013 17:20
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Iceclaw posted:That's the thief's guild, actually. And their concept of insurance. you pay a little something to the guild, and you have a nice card you can show to would be muggers to tell them to pick another victim or risk the guild's wrath. The Assassins wouldn't go for something so base. Nah, I do remember that there's an Assassin mark with the auto-contract thing. I remember the Thieves' Guild being hilariously bureaucratic, and having your stuff stolen by unlicensed dudes probably means you either file a report with the Watch or bitch at the Guild to do their job.
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Dec 19, 2013 17:23
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Do remember that the gods are very, very prone to play boardgames with people as actual pawns, so if one of them has a hot streak rolling sixes (or whatever they roll), one man can do anything. (until the barbarians try to blow them up)
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Dec 19, 2013 17:24
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toasterwarrior posted:Nah, I do remember that there's an Assassin mark with the auto-contract thing. I remember the Thieves' Guild being hilariously bureaucratic, and having your stuff stolen by unlicensed dudes probably means you either file a report with the Watch or bitch at the Guild to do their job. I THINK this isn't true. As far as I know, the ways around getting assassinated are 1) Being extremely hard to kill, a la Vimes 2) Being so important or hard to kill that the guild stops accepting contracts on your life, a la Vetinari 3) Having somebody else take out a contract on you to be fulfilled under some condition. The guild won't take out a second contract, so as long as you don't meet the condition, you can't get assassinated, a la Lipwig. nimby posted:Do remember that the gods are very, very prone to play boardgames with people as actual pawns, so if one of them has a hot streak rolling sixes (or whatever they roll), one man can do anything. (until the barbarians try to blow them up) This is absolutely true, but what are you referring to in particular? Bacter fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 17:27
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I can't believe I just did this, but whatever, I love Discworld and it's probably going to keep me awake if I don't get it done now so here: page 351, Corgi paperback, The Truth; two characters do some exposition on some seals stuck on the entrance of the De Worde townhouse. Specifically states that the Assassin's emblem means that anyone breaking in gets a bounty on their head. vvv: I know 
toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 17:35
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toasterwarrior posted:I can't believe I just did this, but whatever, I love Discworld and it's probably going to keep me awake if I don't get it done now so here: page 351, Corgi paperback, The Truth; two characters do some exposition on some seals stuck on the entrance of the De Worde townhouse. Specifically states that the Assassin's emblem means that anyone breaking in gets a bounty on their head. Slow. Clap.
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Dec 19, 2013 17:39
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Bacter posted:This is absolutely true, but what are you referring to in particular? Anything that happens in the game that should have happened differently if you go by the 'normal' rules of Discworld from the books, really. This is the kind of game where plotholes can be fixed by saying: A wizard did it.
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Dec 19, 2013 17:53
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It's not like the Discworld books are very internally consistent, stuff gets retroactively changed all the time. It's not worth sweating over the details, all in all the game is pretty faithful.
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Dec 19, 2013 18:05
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Cardiovorax posted:It's not like the Discworld books are very internally consistent, stuff gets retroactively changed all the time. It's not worth sweating over the details, all in all the game is pretty faithful. Yeah, it is also worth noting that Pratchett himself was heavily involved with the writing of this game-it's not like this is some rogue group with no understanding of the series. That said, I actually enjoy specific little fan quibbles like this stuff, so unless it gets nasty, let's keep it coming! I fully expect to be cage matching a couple of you about Vimes next update or so!
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Dec 19, 2013 18:09
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The riot they were talking about is possibly the one from Men at Arms. A Dwarf was murdered, the Dwarves "of course" suspected the trolls and stuff proceeded to go down.
Nuramor fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Dec 19, 2013 |
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Dec 19, 2013 18:26
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Yeah, the riots line is a pretty clear Men-At-Arms reference. Is anyone else finding it impossible to see the videos because of how drat dark everything is? I've taken to putting my monitor contrast up specially and I still can't make anything out in half the scenes. This game must be hell to hunt for hotspots in.
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Dec 19, 2013 21:59
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Bacter posted:Incidentally "Selachii" means "relating to sharks". This leads to my favorite "need to do some digging" joke in the entire series, from Night Watch. The Selachiis have a bitter rivalry with another old family, the Venturis. The Venturi effect is critical to aircraft design. Every time I re-read those books I spot another joke. Pratchett wrote in layers.
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Dec 19, 2013 22:44
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Bruceski posted:This leads to my favorite "need to do some digging" joke in the entire series, from Night Watch. The Selachiis have a bitter rivalry with another old family, the Venturis. The Venturi effect is critical to aircraft design.
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Dec 19, 2013 22:45
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Bacter posted:I was more referring to waking up to see him lying next to us, dead, and the watch there. And what even happened? Did he knock us out? Did somebody else? If they were gunning for him, why not kill him before now? I guess they needed us to lead them to Mundy? WHAT HAPPENED? Bruceski posted:This leads to my favorite "need to do some digging" joke in the entire series, from Night Watch. The Selachiis have a bitter rivalry with another old family, the Venturis. The Venturi effect is critical to aircraft design.
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Dec 19, 2013 22:48
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Loxbourne posted:Yeah, the riots line is a pretty clear Men-At-Arms reference. The warehouse is, hands-down, the worst for that. In general, environments are going to be better from here on out. I can try adjusting the gamma settings in the virtual machine to turn up the contrast a little bit or something? Something to look into for next video.
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Dec 19, 2013 23:06
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I have to say that voice acting is better than I remember. I recall thinking that it was bit obvious that there were not many voice actors involved and some choices for voices were a bit questionable. I think one such odd choice is coming up - I wonder if I will have a better reaction to it after so many years.
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Dec 20, 2013 00:01
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Bacter posted:And consider this - malachite is just your traditional big dumb palooka, but it's not like that couldn't fit with a troll character. There are dumb humans, there should be dumb trolls too. And voice patterns of... well, every (non-diamond-or-cold) troll I've read in the book fit Malachite/Sapphire's. Detritus, Brick, even Crysoprase do the ME NOT MUCH FOR ARTICLES OR PRONOUNS thing. Malachite is in the plot, at this point, to be a strong motivator. His single-minded devotion and threatening presence give Lewton a reason to investigate Therma Oh, I don't have a problem with Malachite and Sapphire as individual characters (other than them being made of boring grey rock) and I agree that Sapphire is pretty great. You're wrong about how Chrysoprase talks though. Soul Music posted:“I'd like you lads to meet Chrysoprase,” said Dibbler. “An old friend of mine. Me and him go way back. That right, Chrys?” Thud! posted:'Mister Vimes! Good o' you to be comin',' said Chrysoprase jovially. 'Dese gentlemen are all high-toned businessmen of my acquaintance. I 'spect you can put names to faces.' Bacter posted:Yes, malachite should be much greener, and I'm just going to assume that sapphire is a stage name, and that she shouldn't be an enormous gemstone Female trolls' names don't reflect their composition, they're usually just named after pretty, colourful stones. Chrysoprase, on the other hand, is made of chrysoprase and should be green, and is also described in Soul Music as having buffed and polished himself so he should actually be a big, smooth polished gemstone. As for Elves... Lords and Ladies posted:Well, well. Elves. (They couldn’t hear you say the word inside your head, anyway. At least, not unless they were real close.) She really thought they’d seen the last of them. How long was it, now? Must be hundreds and hundreds of years, maybe thousands. Lords and Ladies posted:The warriors must have been more than two meters tall. They did not wear clothes so much as items strung together - scraps of fur, bronze plates, strings of brightly coloured feathers. Blue and green tattoos covered most of their exposed skin. Several of them held drawn bows, the tips of their arrows following Granny’s every move. Lords and Ladies posted:“Got something to show you.” Lords and Ladies posted:“The thing about elves is they’ve got no . . . begins with m,” Granny snapped her fingers irritably. Lords and Ladies posted:“Oh, yeah. Elvish ancestry. Elves and humans breed all right, as if that’s anything to be proud of. But you just get a race o’skinny types with pointy ears and a tendency to giggle and burn easily in sunshine. I ain’t talking about them. There’s no harm in them. I’m talking about real wild elves, what we ain’t seen here for-“ Lords and Ladies posted:She was amazed at the lightness. Magrat was skinny enough, but the Queen seemed to have no weight at all. “Why,” she said, pulling herself up until the Queen’s face was level with hers, “you’re nothing. It’s all in the mind, isn’t it? Without the glamour, you’re-“
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Dec 20, 2013 01:40
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The best kind of post. I salute you. Now please look through this keyhole.
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Dec 20, 2013 01:47
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Just as an aside: Madam Lodestone's name is a pun. Lodestone might not be pretty, but it's certainly attractive.
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Dec 20, 2013 03:43
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