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In general anytime anyone makes a claim about why a champ is either bad or overpowered your first impulse should be to ask yourself "Why is this person wrong?"
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Nov 27, 2013 04:59
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The Shortest Path posted:I'm perfectly aware of what Taric does and why he is strong. He still isn't "broken", people just need to learn what he does and how to play against him. He's functional as another bruiser that has some sustain and still has hella mana issues. Stacking armor on him just makes him super vulnerable to mages, which he's always had a problem with dealing with especially on a support gold income. Taric has one of the highest weekly win rates in Diamond/Challenger solo queue, it's not just player skill differential and I find it hard to believe players at that level can't quickly figure out how to "play against him" given he still has one of the most straightforward kits and playstyles in the whole game.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:01
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Bubble-T posted:Taric has one of the highest weekly win rates in Diamond/Challenger solo queue, it's not just player skill differential and I find it hard to believe players at that level can't quickly figure out how to "play against him" given he still has one of the most straightforward kits and playstyles in the whole game. It's been a week and the entire drat game has been turned on its head. It will take time for people to learn how to adapt to changes. That's true for pretty much everything at this point. Also Relic Shield certainly has something to do with that, and it definitely does need changes.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:05
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The Shortest Path posted:It's been a week and the entire drat game has been turned on its head. It will take time for people to learn how to adapt to changes. That's true for pretty much everything at this point. You literally do the same thing now as you would before the taric buffs. Except getting caught once is an automatic back or death now. Taric is too strong right now.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:07
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Little late but as someone who played Fallout: NV a lot I find Yashuo's voice distracting. I keep expecting him to spout one liners about the mojave and gambling.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:15
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Gotta spend 6 months fixing broken poo poo, it's such a chore having to iron these things out.
Invalid Validation fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 05:16
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Piss Sodastream posted:Taric is too strong right now. Compared to what? Look at the numbers, he still does less damage than a significant amount of similar tanky bruisers. Stop comparing new supports to old supports.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:21
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Supports being powerful is a far more interesting meta so I'm rooting for the changes to stay.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:26
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Had a really silly 1v3 bot lane with level 9 taric vs a caitlyn and thresh + 50 hp twitch. I finished twitch then killed caitlyn from full hp and thresh escaped with like 50 hp after I beat him down from full. I had a targons and dorans shield as my only items. I was playing a normal with diamond 1 friends and they had like no loving idea what just happened.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:32
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I'm gonna get plat this season. I'm actually confident.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:36
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Taric seems to be a resurgence of something I thought Riot had learned an important lesson about back in the days of Season 1/2. I'm referring to champions deriving significant offensive stats from building pure defense, like the armour shred on his W gets Quite High with only one or two armour items, especially for something that can be chain cast in an aoe. Separately, his ability to cycle spells with his passive gets kind of crazy when he's got a targeted stun in the mix there too. I guess it also brings up the question of what happens to champions who have been tuned for utility when they suddenly are given scaling and a large amount of gold without appreciable/any utility loss. As a disclaimer I always hated the fucker because of that goddamn armour aura, stun, and heal being the epitome of what made bottom lane the most boring poo poo for the longest time.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:41
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Tarics passive has absolutely nothing to do with why he's so good, it's really garbage compared to similar passives (ie shen)
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Nov 27, 2013 05:46
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Taric has a heal?
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Nov 27, 2013 05:51
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THE PWNER posted:Tarics passive has absolutely nothing to do with why he's so good, it's really garbage compared to similar passives (ie shen)
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Nov 27, 2013 05:51
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Mikujin posted:Reducing all your cool downs is pretty significant when one of then is hard CC, or so I'm told. Whoever told you that is a liar and a sinner.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:53
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Slaapaav posted:Taric has a heal? Remember resistances make heals more effective simply by making the HP you're restoring more valuable. Taric gives everyone a boatload of resistances for free, and has a hell of a lot for himself too.
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Nov 27, 2013 05:58
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Piss Sodastream posted:Whoever told you that is a liar and a sinner. I think it was some Tonetta guy but he's kind of a scrub lord. 
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Nov 27, 2013 05:59
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Flameingblack posted:By building a Frozen Heart or Randuin Taric is both unkillable early on AND does a lot of damage AND shreds armor doing true damage to anyone that doesn't have much armor.
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Nov 27, 2013 06:02
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ShadowHawk posted:It's an armor reduction which can actually make them go into negative armor if they have a small enough amount (and thus take bonus damage).
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Nov 27, 2013 06:13
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Flameingblack posted:Taric's W reduces armor by 10% of his own + 30 flat amount so it's possible to do true damage if you have enough, right? If they have 50 armor they'll take 100% physical damage. If they have 40 armor they'll take 110% physical damage. Note that only armor reduction, not penetration, can cause this to go over 100% -- so if they have 70 armor and you reduce it by 50 and your carry hits them with 30 penetration, they'll take the same damage as if they had 80 armor (100%).
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Nov 27, 2013 06:20
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ShadowHawk posted:If you have 200 armor on Taric you'll reduce their armor by 50. When was this changed? I know that penetration used to be the only way to go under 0 armor. (Flat pen, not percentage)
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Nov 27, 2013 06:22
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GreyPowerVan posted:When was this changed? I know that penetration used to be the only way to go under 0 armor. (Flat pen, not percentage)
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Nov 27, 2013 06:25
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ShadowHawk posted:It's been that way for at least the two years I've been playing. Penetration was always something that was capped by their armor (though generally hard to get that much of anyway, so it was very rare that you would have "too much" armor pen). It's also worth noting that the closer they are to 0 effective armor, the better penetration is (until they actually have 0 armor, at which point it becomes useless). Most of the mechanics stuff I know is wrong because I don't remember any of the changes after season 2 went live, so I have no idea. Thanks.
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Nov 27, 2013 06:30
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Flameingblack posted:Taric's W reduces armor by 10% of his own + 30 flat amount so it's possible to do true damage if you have enough, right? By the point you're level 9 nobody has less than 80 or so armor, and it's impossible to get anywhere close to high enough to penetrate that. It's pretty great for jungling or clearing waves, because it puts minions well into negatives though. Keep in mind that Taric has absolutely no physical damage apart from his base autoattacks, so it doesn't actually give him much of anything for damage and is solely a support/teamfight bonus. GreyPowerVan posted:When was this changed? I know that penetration used to be the only way to go under 0 armor. (Flat pen, not percentage) It's always been this way. Reduction applies first, and can go into negatives. Penetration comes after, and can't.
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Nov 27, 2013 06:35
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The Shortest Path posted:Keep in mind that Taric has absolutely no physical damage apart from his base autoattacks, so it doesn't actually give him much of anything for damage and is solely a support/teamfight bonus. His Shatter does AOE damage that scales off his armor. It's pretty big. The damage.
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Nov 27, 2013 06:42
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Pancakes by Mail posted:His Shatter does AOE damage that scales off his armor. It's pretty big. The damage. His shatter is magic damage, and it applies the reduction anyway so it wouldn't benefit from it. The armor reduction is literally useless for him solo.
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Nov 27, 2013 06:55
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Anyone else want to level smurfs with me during the Pre/Off Season?
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Nov 27, 2013 07:01
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The Shortest Path posted:By the point you're level 9 nobody has less than 80 or so armor, and it's impossible to get anywhere close to high enough to penetrate that. It's pretty great for jungling or clearing waves, because it puts minions well into negatives though. No. I'm positive that a high enough number of flat penetration was able to put someone into negative. Not reduction, or % penetration, but flat such as from runes and brutalizer. It may have been in season one, but I distinctly remember it being a thing. EDIT: I know sometime (start of?) season 3 they did a rework of all kinds of penetration, magic and physical, and I think that's when they changed it.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:04
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Libertine posted:I'm really hoping that some more changes are in store which will modify this a bit, or that extensive competitive play on the new patch will reveal a better style of play than what has emerged in solo queue, but I doubt it, and I think this is probably the way the game is going to be for the next year. People just blindly loving each other in the jungle for 40 minutes to a stalemate and then one team throws and the game ends. That's how pretty much all of my games have gone in this patch. This describes all of my games in a way I wasn't really able to articulate but yea, this is spot on.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:08
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GreyPowerVan posted:No. I'm positive that a high enough number of flat penetration was able to put someone into negative. Not reduction, or % penetration, but flat such as from runes and brutalizer. It may have been in season one, but I distinctly remember it being a thing. If this was ever the case, it was in beta way before ranked started being a thing. Penetration hasn't been able to go below zero since far before the S3 changes.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:09
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e: Double post.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:09
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GreyPowerVan posted:No. I'm positive that a high enough number of flat penetration was able to put someone into negative. Not reduction, or % penetration, but flat such as from runes and brutalizer. It may have been in season one, but I distinctly remember it being a thing.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:11
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The Shortest Path posted:Keep in mind that Taric has absolutely no physical damage apart from his base autoattacks, so it doesn't actually give him much of anything for damage and is solely a support/teamfight bonus. The Shortest Path posted:His shatter is magic damage, and it applies the reduction anyway so it wouldn't benefit from it. I think you are forgetting the MASSIVE AD steroid on his ult.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:11
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The Shortest Path posted:If this was ever the case, it was in beta way before ranked started being a thing. Penetration hasn't been able to go below zero since far before the S3 changes. I guess it could have been. I've been playing since way early beta stages, but I take pretty frequent breaks and it must have been changed sometime when I wasn't playing. Thanks for the info.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:12
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Trip Report, 0-30-0 Taric Top Dorans Shield vs Lee Sin win. Out traded a Yi one-on-one that had 15 more cs and two more kills. I do believe I will continue to play Taric.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:18
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So, uh, Teemo is buffed to hell right now. Mushrooms are much, much harder to find. Stealth in general got a huge buff this patch. I don't understand why the current version of pink wards aren't much, much cheaper - they're worse then greens at the "grant vision" bit, and somewhat worse than they used to be at counter-warding. You can't really place pinks defensively right now, only where you expect to find a green. edit: Played a game against a Vayne, a Teemo, and an Evelynn. It wasn't enjoyable. I'd imagine that the ol' Akali counter is currently dead, as well. theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Nov 27, 2013 |
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Nov 27, 2013 07:18
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Mikujin posted:Reducing all your cool downs is pretty significant when one of then is hard CC, or so I'm told. True, but i'm referring to the damage specifically. It's really nothing. An extra 180 damage pre-resists if you've got 2 armor items and space it out perfectly.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:26
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Welp I just ended a game with more gold than my ADC. Supports pretty fun right now if you're Annie or Taric.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:40
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I just tried my first game as support Taric since the patch, I did more damage to champions then everyone on their team except for their MF.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:41
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The Shortest Path posted:By the point you're level 9 nobody has less than 80 or so armor, and it's impossible to get anywhere close to high enough to penetrate that. It's pretty great for jungling or clearing waves, because it puts minions well into negatives though.
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Nov 27, 2013 07:47
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