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I'm headed to Morocco with my girlfriend for a week in mid January, flying into Marrakech. I've been reading travel forums (and God there are so many about Morocco) but most seem to be oriented towards British travelers who have never left their home town before and who will be amazed by a guy selling mounds of spices from a souk stall. My main questions are: a) is it worth it to rent a car? Definitely not driving in Marrakech, but for just getting around in general. We were considering going to Essaouira, and if there's nothing else cool particularly in the area / on the way, we'll take a bus, but if there are interesting places to stop along the way, a car might be easier. b) Anything particularly highly recommended in southern Morocco (not considering up to Fez & environs; we'll be back to Morocco and will go north then). If we've been around deserts and oases before, will Ouazazate still be particularly impressive? c) Is it worth spending time in Marrakech, or should it be treated as an airport? We get in at like 8:30am the first day and leave at like 9:00am the last day, so I guess we'll definitely spend our last day in Marrakech. We're torn between a relaxing vacation and a cultural one, but considering it's mid January, relaxing and sun sounds better, even though it won't be particularly warm. OTOH I'm not sure if it's worth going to Essaouira if it's not even nice enough to sit outside at a cafe and read. Looking for suggestions on what to do, not warnings about how rug vendors do not actually care about my family and my personal life story. Edit: Ended up renting a car and going with this itinerary: Day 1: Land Sunday at 8am, rent a car, drive to Ait Benhaddou. Spend a few hours there until sunset time, then drive to Ouarzazate. Spend that night (Sunday). Day 2: Spend the day in Ouarzazate. Spend the night there. Day 3: Drive towards Ourika, stopping at Telouet for a couple hours. Spend the night in Ourika. Day 4: Spend the day and night in Ourika. Day 5: Drive to Marrakech, drop off car early afternoon. Spend night there. Day 6: Marrakech Day 7: Marrakech (11 January, Moroccan independence day, so I guess poo poo will be going down?) Day 8: Flight midmorning. ~10 hours of driving and budget of ~€1500, including plane tickets for two. Saladman fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2013 20:46
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 10:41 |
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Thanks for the tips. Still haven't booked... anything (besides the plane ticket). Too bad the coast looks pretty dull, between Essaouira, Agadir, and Casablanca. Not that I'm going swimming in January anyway. Might just spend 4 days in Marrakech, then the rest with a rental car around the area. Looks like Marrakech is the end of the world as far as trains are concerned.
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Dec 23, 2013 10:48
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Did anyone rent a car in Morocco? I'm leaning towards 3 days in Marrakech, then renting a car and going "around". I was thinking Marrakech -> Ouzoud -> Todra Gorges -> Ouarzazate -> Marrakech Airport but maybe this distance (900km in 4 full days, i.e. 100 hours) is a little too much. Cutting out Todra Gorges reduces this down to 600 km, which is a lot more reasonable. I like driving through interesting landscapes, up to about 3 hours a day. I do not like taxis, or more specifically, taxi drivers, but am open to the possibility of a tour guide driver, if anyone has any specific suggestions. Alternating between whether it'd be better to do 3 days in Marrakech to start, or start with the road trip and relax in Marrakech. Now that I'm writing I think doing it this way makes more sense.
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Dec 28, 2013 11:41
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Chris! posted:I would say that if you have 2 full days in Marrakech, that is probably enough - I'd use that extra day to explore those other places. Marrakech is fantastic, but you can definitely fit in most of what you'll want to see in 2 full days / nights. Thanks for the tips. I'll book somewhere in Marrakech before arriving. Money not particularly an issue, so we'll probably get one of the top-rated Dars on TripAdvisor. Yeah, definitely going to chill in Marrakech at the end of the trip now instead of the beginning. 2 or 3 days will depend on what we figure out as an itinerary for the rest. Thanks!
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Dec 28, 2013 16:11
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Well, got it mostly figured out: Day 1: Land Sunday at 8am, rent a car, drive to Ait Benhaddou. Spend a few hours there until sunset time, then drive to Ouarzazate. Spend that night (Sunday). ~3.5 hours of driving. Day 2: Spend the day in Ouarzazate. Spend the night there. No driving. Day 3: Drive towards Ourika, stopping at Telouet for a couple hours. Spend the night in Ourika. ~ 3 hours of driving. Day 4: Spend the day and night in Ourika. Day 5: Drive to Marrakech, drop off car early afternoon. Spend night there. ~1 hour of driving. Day 6: Marrakech Day 7: Marrakech (11 January, Moroccan independence day, so I guess poo poo will be going down?) Day 8: Flight midmorning. Looks like it will be cold but not rainy in the area. Don't really want to drive more than ~10 hours total, but looks like this will only be about 8 hours. Any other particular recommendations re: this route? E: Well, just booked everything. Looking forward to it. I never realized the inhabitable part of Morocco was so large until I started planning out this trip. Always figured it was more like Tunisia or Egypt or etc, where 99% of the interesting sites and population are along major bodies of water. Nope! Saladman fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Dec 30, 2013 |
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Dec 29, 2013 00:56
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Actually looking at driving times, Google Maps says it's 2 hours 40 minutes from Marrakech Airport to Ait Benhaddou (188 km). People are saying "4 hours" on the Internet. This seems insane to me, there's no way the average speed is 50 km/hour for a passenger vehicle, particularly as the bus's time is only 4.5 hours. I've seen videos of the road, it looks nicely paved, wide, and not super heavily trafficked. Is this a new road or something? I see the 'alternate options' on Google and some of those are more like 4-5 hours. VVVVV: I've heard that this has been less of an issue post-Arab spring, from both Moroccans and on the Interweb. Assuming your experience was prior to ~mid 2011. E2: I mean they're still cops everywhere, but they don't pull over non-speeders and trump up charges anymore. Saladman fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Dec 31, 2013 |
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Dec 30, 2013 22:39
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Well, I bought a 1.5m2 cactus carpet today for 800 dirham. Had no idea about rug prices before but looked it up later and this seems the "best" price as far as I can tell, particularly as I see the same exact carpets online for like $450 (~3800 dirham or something). Kind of surprising, as I didn't haggle with the guy at all either (well I half-heartedly tried but don't care about the money unless I'm getting particularly gypped). I'm guessing the salespeople in Marrakech will not be as upfront as some guy in the middle of the desert. It's also impossible to find the "correct" price for anything sold here, even after looking online for quite a while. Anyone happen to know the "right" price for the standard tourist stuff? L'huile d'argan products are also ludicrously expensive but seem the same even after going in like 5 coops, so maybe 18$ is actually the correct price for like 50 mL of it?
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Jan 6, 2014 23:21
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Back today, ended up doing this itinerary for posterity in case someone comes across this in the archives: Day 1: Land in Marrakech 8am. Dick around for 2 hours because the car rental guys are only there when you actually reserved your car for. Start driving to Ouarzazate at 10:15. Get near Ait Benhaddou at about 2pm, but are feeling tired after waking up at 3am. Continue to Ouarzazate, take a nap. Spend the evening walking around Ouarzazate (not remarkable). Day 2: Drive to Ait Benhaddou, buy a 1.5m^2 cactus rug for 800 MAD. Stick around for a while and walk around. Leave around noon and drive to Fint Oasis, which is off a piste road which makes me feel like I'm a rover driving on Mars. Have lunch there and stick around until sunset. Drive back to Ouarzazate (30 min). Day 3: Drive to Ourika Valley. Ended up skipping Telouet since we felt like we'd seen enough ruined Kasbahs (1). Get to resort (Kasbah Bab Ourika) around 2pm, spend rest of afternoon and evening there. Day 4: Drive up Ourika Valley to Setti Fatma. Tourist hellhole, but "authentic" tourist hellhole (lots of Moroccans). Feels like somewhere in France with the river and greenery everywhere. Avoid irritating guides, walk up ourselves, basically a trivial 45 minute 'hike' unless you are 70 and have a bum knee. Check it out. Yep, a waterfall. I guess if I was from Morocco this would be a lot more impressive. In any case a nice change of pace. Day 5: Drive to Marrakech, drop off car. Go into Marrakech, walk around the souks. Check out the Ben Yussuf madrasa (unremarkable but OK) and Marrakech museum (same). Walk around Jemaa el Fna at night, but eat at our hotel. Day 6: Check out the Bahia Palace (pretty cool), the Mellah (pretty sketch), and the Saadian Tombs (pretty boring). Found out the Bahia Palace is totally in ruins and is modeled after a grander, and still maintained, palace in Alhambra anyway. So, skipped that too. Day 7: Go up to Majorelle's Gardens, which although quite nice, are only worth a max of 30 minutes, and it's too bad about half the grounds are closed off to the public. Skipped the Berber Museum inside. Went to a local supermarket, Acima (one of my favorite things to do in foreign countries), but found that it carries almost exactly the same products as in a Carrefour or Casino. Went shopping in the northern (and MUCH less touristy) part of the medina. Had a mixture of people who gave us more or less the right price immediately (well, like 20% markup, but reasonable), and people who tried marking up stuff by 400%. Could not find pattern or logic or any way to figure out if someone is screwing you or not, unless you already know the value of the item you're buying. However, apparently even in central Marrakech, not all shopkeepers are assholes looking to screw tourists. Most of them probably are, though. General notes: • Driving is pretty relaxed since the speed limits are so low. Even drove through the Marrakech medina by accident (thanks "shortest route" GPS) the first day, like right by Bahia Palace. Really not very much traffic, at least in the four days we were in Marrakech (Sunday, then Thurs->Sat). Mountain roads felt safe fine since top speed was about 60 km/h and the roads are reasonably wide (1 lane each way, never a passing lane; probably enough room for 3 cars side-by-side if their mirrors are all touching). A fair number of people who hound your car within 2 inches, but by and large sane drivers. A fair number of minibuses that are incredibly overloaded and I imagine will tip over with a strong gust of wind. • Know what the price of something is before you go to buy it. Can be surprisingly hard to find this information online, also since a lot varies depending on the quality of the item (e.g. that plain rug is going to be worth less than the nicely embroidered one). A fair number of shopkeepers have listed prices so you can walk around checking those out to get a reference (I never saw a written price that was insanely high--of course you still barter down, but it might only be 50% above 'best' price, rather than the 400% that a shopkeeper may ask if no prices are listed). • Marrakech is really not that interesting, not sure what its deal is. I guess it's safer and comparatively clean compared to most other Arab cities (outside Morocco) nowadays. If I ever go back, I will consider Marrakech just to be an airport that connects southern Morocco to the rest of the world. If you've never been to another major Arab city then it will be pretty interesting, I guess. E: Last note: about rental cars. Automatic transmissions are almost impossible to find unless you want a luxury car. I ended up going with Dollar who had a lovely Hyundai automatic for like €70 a day. They didn't accept AmEx, but I didn't have any other card so they just wrote down the number and copied the card so theoretically they could charge it. The deposit they took was an insane 45'000 MAD (€4000). Not sure why, as mandatory insurance covers damage > €1500. Anyway, no issues or charge fraud on my card, which is fortunately about to expire anyway. Saladman fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Jan 13, 2014 |
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Jan 12, 2014 18:09
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Oaks posted:Yeesh, hope my trip is a little more exciting. I took three weeks off, but I'm starting out in Spain (flying into Madrid). I've never been anywhere outside the US and the UK before, so hopefully some of the stuff you found boring is more interesting to me. It will be way more interesting for you since you've never been outside UK/US before. The first Arab city I went to (Tunis) was super interesting, as was the first time I went to a ruined palace (Heidelberg Castle). Just after a while you want to see a restored palace, not something in ruins, since all the ruins of a certain type start to look the same after not very long. I loved Tunis, but I bet if you go after spending a week or two in Morocco, you'll not particularly care for it. For Anarkii, the trip itinerary was intentionally pretty slow so we could take some time easy. Again it would've been more interesting if I'd never been to a desert before, or if I'd never been to major Muslim/Arab cities before, or if I'd never been to a "3rd world" country. As it is, there was no particular novelty in dusty towns with people asking/begging/harassing you to enter their trinket shop. I liked Ait Benhaddou and Fint Oasis a lot, but everything else I'd give a skip. Not that I regret my trip--it was fantastic to get somewhere warm and sunny for a week, but next time I go to Morocco it'll be for the weather, cheap food, and cheap price-for-quality accommodations. E: Trying not to sound like a jaded dick. Morocco was an interesting experience. My girlfriend couldn't spend 2 minutes along without getting harassed though, "hey pretty lady" and "gently caress off" and "you are a witch you will never have a baby, never", for no reason whatsoever besides "no I don't want to go in your shop, leave me alone". But, it was very pretty, and nice and warm. Here are some photos I took, in Ouarzazate, Tifoultoute, Ourika Valley, and Setti Fatma, respectively.    
Saladman fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 19:49
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Shibawanko posted:I'm probably going to Morocco in june with my girlfriend. FYI there's a pretty decent train network which will take you most places in Morocco (except Chefchaouen). Personally I always prefer train to bus when the choice is available, but YMMV. Didn't make it to northern Morocco so don't have anything else to recommend. I wouldn't recommend going to Ouarzazate or the desert, given your time / entry / exit points.
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Mar 5, 2014 12:26
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Sub Par posted:My wife and I are traveling for about a year, started in January with 3 months in India. We're leaving India in 3 weeks and our next destination is Morocco. Our flight has us coming in to Casablanca and I have to say I'm experiencing some serious sticker shock when it comes to the hotels. I'm not finding much cheaper than ~$35/night, including hostels. Anyone have any tips/recos about hotels in Casablanca? Should I just bite the bullet and reserve a $40 room or whatever for one night and then try to bargain for the other nights when I get there, or is it not like SE Asia in that regard? Everything is way more expensive than SEA/India. In summer you can get bargain basement prices for like sleeping on a mat on the roof, but it's harder in cold months. Also places that advertise on the Internet are more expensive; I saw some hole in the walls that I bet are a lot less than $40/night in Marrakech.
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Mar 10, 2014 12:46
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Sub Par posted:Edit: So I'm looking to learn some basic Arabic before heading to Morocco. I have a little over a month and I gather that the Arabic that's actually used in Morocco is not Standard Arabic so Rosetta Stone-type poo poo may not be helpful. Any particular books/reference guides/software you guys can recommend? Obviously I'm not looking for fluency - I'm looking for basic conversational poo poo, buying things, that kind of stuff. French is much much more useful to learn for travel in Morocco. Also keep in mind that in the southern half of Morocco (everything south of Marrakech), Arabic is not the native language, it's the completely unrelated Berber which even uses a different script (not that people write it ever). My girlfriend speaks Maghrebi Arabic and it does not get you any bonus services, even if you were able to learn a good deal of it within 2 months, which you couldn't anyway unless you already speak standard Arabic. If you already speak good French then it's worthwhile to learn normal phrases (sabaah el khair, shukran etc). If you don't speak French then absolutely use your time to learn French instead of Arabic phrases. Also, as the above posted said, a lot of the commonly used phrase words are specific to Maghrebi Arabic. Edit: this includes even incredibly basic vocabulary like "Yes" which is "aywa" in North Africa, but a totally unrelated "naam" in classical Arabic. Egyptian Arabic has some elements of both classical/middle eastern Arabic and Maghrebi Arabic, but is much closer to middle eastern. Most Arabic media is in Egyptian though so almost everyone understands it, unidirectionally. This is much more than just an accent difference, it's more like Swedes understanding Danes or Germans understanding Swiss German, if either of those analogies float your boat. Saladman fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Mar 18, 2014 |
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Mar 18, 2014 22:46
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peak debt posted:Is it really "shukran" in Morocco, not "saha" like in Algeria? Can't say for sure about Morocco, but "saha" is not used in Tunisian Arabic (instead, ayshuk, though also shukran). I've never been to Algeria and don't know any Algerians, though. Ayshuk was not understood in Morocco though and I pervasively heard "shukran", which I rarely hear in Tunisia. [My girlfriend is Tunisian though very expat by this point in her life.]
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Jun 20, 2014 18:11
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Shibawanko posted:Thanks, yeah we left without booking beforehand and booked in the office here instead, it went fine. Front pocket is the pocket you should keep your wallet in. Actually I have no idea how that happened without you noticing, unless you slept on the ride. Back pockets are much more pickpocketable, if that's a word.
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Jun 21, 2014 11:46
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Florida Betty posted:I asked my (Algerian) husband, and he said Moroccans, Algerians, and Tunisians all use "saha" at least sometimes. But he's from Annaba, which is pretty far from Morocco, so who knows. Could be regional within each country too, although with the Algerian-Morocco border closed for like 20+ years now I guess their cultural exchange is becoming increasingly limited. It's so hard to find anything about Maghrebi dialects even if you're looking. Even Wikipedia doesn't have articles in Maghrebi, which is weird because they have everything else, even Swiss German (alemannisch) and Esperanto
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Jun 22, 2014 10:12
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xcdude24 posted:
Neither is Swiss German! But they're pushing to make it more of a language and less of a dialect, so I guess maybe Wikipedia is the vanguard.
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Jun 27, 2014 09:40
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It's a pretty drat long drive from Marrakech to Dades Gorges, not sure how much you like driving. Merzouga is again quite far. But yeah you can do the itinerary as you planned it but drat it sounds exhausting, especially for your jetlagged friend. I would also recommend not driving at night, even dusk (or especially dusk) when there are tons of people on the roads on bikes or whatever without reflectors. The roads are all reasonably wide and in good repair, but there are a lot of lovely cars. The mountain pass from Marrakech to Ouarzazate is gorgeous and man what a difference--verdant forests on the north side, barren desert on the south side. Essentially no places to safely pass so keep your eyes out as you'll need to pass super slow lovely trucks a handful of times. The rest of the driving will be easy (huge line of sight). Unless you REALLY want to see a sand dune Id swap Merzouga out and put the time on Meknes. Chefchaouen is supposed to be (and looks) fantastic too but it's pretty far out of your way. I spent 3 days in Marrakech which was 1.5 too many. We had been to several modern medinas before though. Saladman fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 22:05
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| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 10:41 |
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Animal posted:Any guesstimates how long the drives are? That would help a lot. "Long drive" is relative It was about a 3h15 drive to Ouarzazate from Marrakech, then Dades Gorges is another 2 hours (we decided to go to Fint Oasis instead). You're also passing by ait benhadou which is awesome but would take about 90 min to run through. So yeah not even a stretch to do these drives, but depends on how you like driving. 2-3 hours is my comfort zone limit for a day, after doing tons of 9 hr drives throughout college I started to hate anything remotely that long for my vacation time. Google maps slightly overestimates travel times IME, mostly due to all the trucks and overloaded minibuses you'll have to pass (not that many, but enough to slow you down 10-20% of googles estimate).
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Sep 4, 2014 16:22
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