Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun



You know what's cool? Space! Don't try to act like it isn't, because you know drat well that it is. Space has aliens, lasers, spaceships, funky planets, and lots of rocks floating in an endless void. If you don't think that's cool, then you should see a doctor because you're broken. But you know what's also pretty cool? Bounty hunters! Gruff people that live a life on the edge, always on the hunt for some perp and the money on its head. Shooting guns, getting in fights, drinking in shoddy dive bars, being the strong arm of the law, that's the good life! Now, if you are at least a little bit like me, you probably think that it would be sweet to combine those two cool things, right? Boy, do I have good news for you!



Somewhere around the year 2000, Warthog Games had the same idea. They wanted to make an open world game about being a bounty hunter in space. At some point, they seriously described it as "GTA in Space!" The game was supposed to have a reputation system to represent your standing in the galaxy, and catching bounties would make you climb up the ranks. There was also some kind of plot that the player would get roped into along the way. And to sweeten the deal, your character had a big Mexican hat, a popped collar, a slick visor, and a small cape over half of its torso. The ultimate space cowboy outfit, if you ask me. But for some reason that didn't work out, and the game was redesigned. Kind of a shame, because the initial idea was rad as hell.

Anyway, what the game ended up being was a mediocre FPS, that wasn't very successful after its release for Playstation 2 and Xbox in 2003. A year later, the promised PC port came out, and the planned Gamecube version was quietly canned somewhere in between. Oh, the cool cowboy outfit was also scrapped, because the developers wanted to make the main character more accessible or something like that. They also enlisted Henry Rollins as the voice actor, and he has the acting talent of a brick in this game. The main selling point was the seamless and fluid transition between space and foot combat, and it's also the only thing that makes this game stand out a bit. Space combat plays a pretty big role, and is honestly fun and well executed for the most part. But on the other hand, the game has a bunch of problems, questionable design choices, wonky mechanics, and the PC version comes with its own list of bugs and glitches. Also, the PC version has lots of signs of being a shoddy port!

Yeah, I enjoy this game, but I'm also honest enough to say that it's not that good overall. However, it still has its moments, and a lot of the elements are neat and deserve to be seen. It just falls short when you look at the bigger picture. Still, I think we'll have a fun ride with this! At the very least, we can chuckle at Rollins trying to portrait a hard boiled space bounty hunter.



The background for our story begins 400 years into the future. Having pioneered warp drive technology, mankind has fully explored the Solar System, along with terra forming a number of its planets. Beyond this, a number of neighboring systems have also been chartered. Most contain nothing but lifeless rock, but two of these systems, Dela and Hasali, prove to be rich in resources and life forms. For the first time humans make contact with a number of alien life forms, some of whom get mad at over-zealous colonialists who corrupt and exploit the native species. But 400 years later, the human colonists have become fully integrated with the indigenous life forms. The political and commercial power-bases are established back on earth, but have branches that span all three systems, and employ members of all races. The dominant races are Human, Jaldari, and Valleakan. And with the three systems now fully colonized, the big corporations look out for virgin territory.

The Tannan Corporation, the largest conglomerate, launches a series of probes through a prototype light gate, and the Vagner system is discovered. The stampede into the Vagner system has much in common with the North American land rush, but this time instead of homesteaders and prospectors, it's huge conglomerates battling over land and mining rights, with smuggling cartels and pirate clans fighting over whatever's left. It's a new frontier where rules don't exist and everyone's out to make a fast buck. To counter crime, a police force known as Enforcers are established, and sponsored by the major corporations to protect their interests, on the condition that they will also protect law abiding traders and settlers. This motion comes from the political body called the High Senate, who also put in place an elite military service called the Rangers, whose job is to monitor the Enforcers and tackle some of the more serious criminals.

We'll be following one such Ranger, named Mace Griffin. What starts off as a normal search and rescue mission, quickly goes south and leads to the loss of his whole unit. But to make matters even worse, Mace is blamed for the whole thing and sentenced to ten years in prison. After his release, he has changed, and so did the galaxy. The Rangers were discredited and eventually disbanded, and the Guild of Bounty Hunters rose in their place. Since the Enforcers were hopelessly overwhelmed with the task of keeping the Vagner system safe, the Guild now does was the Rangers used to do. Though, the Guild is much less concerned with upholding the law or monitoring the Enforcers, and mainly looks out for profit. Mace is out for revenge for being framed, and joining the Guild is his only way to get started. But while he tracks down the pieces of his past, he slowly stumbles into something larger, and much more sinister.



Since the PC version is a shoddy port, I have very little control over the internal audio settings. There are only two sliders, one for the music, and one for everything else. This is kind of a problem, because the internal mix is also terrible. Dialog is often pretty quiet, while other sounds just spike the hell out, and there are no subs in this game. I'm doing my best to fix that with editing, but there are lots of cases where I just can't do anything about it. Like, when somebody is talking and suddenly a noise spike comes from out of nowhere. The intro in the first proper episode is a pretty good representation of what I mean. This is just fyi, and I'm honestly doing what I can to counter it. I thought about adding subs myself, but I already put a lot of time into the videos. Making subs on top of that, would likely either kill my motivation, or make the updates come at a snail's pace. Sorry, not gonna happen. Though, if there is a particularly bad case, I may jump over my shadow and do it for that part. We'll see!



This game has a pretty standard orchestral soundtrack. Don't get me wrong, it isn't bad, but it's just bland and you probably heard similar tracks before. That's why I decided to turn it off, and replace it by music of my own choice! I'm going to stick to Synthie music, since I think that it just fits this game. It's also a cool genre that needs more love. And if you by chance have watched my Shogo LP, you'll know that my taste isn't garbage. If you didn't, then you just have to trust me, okay? I'll always credit all the songs at the end of each epsiode, and you can pretty much find all of them on Youtube. I'm no audio engineer, so my mix probably isn't perfect. But I've spent a lot of time to create a baseline that should be fine for most people/sound systems. If you have a problem with my mix, or just an opinion about it, go ahead and say it! I'm always open to improvement.



This is going to be a pretty chill thread, where we can chat about music, space, bad FPS games, and maybe bounty hunting? I'll probably even post a few rad tracks every now and then, and don't mind other folks doing it. This shouldn't devolve into a PYF thread, but as long as all of us have fun, I'm cool with it. Except,

NO SPOILERS!

The story isn't going to blow your mind, but should still be experienced without interference. So please don't ruin our space mystery.



Intro & Chapter 1 - Hold Position
Post

Chapter 2 - Trouble at the Temple
Post

Post

Chapter 3 - Sharp Shooter
Post

Post

Chapter 4 - The Rustlers
Post

Post

Chapter 5 - Gun For Hire
Post

Post

Post

Chapter 6 - Clear And Present Ranger
Post

Post

Chapter 7 - Genetics Lab
Post

Post

Chapter 8 - Rescue Krugo
Post

Post

Chapter 9 - Whistleblower
Post

Post

Chapter 10 - Infiltrate The Tannan Corp
Post

Post

Chapter 11 - Face Off
Post

Post

Post


Intermission

Concept Art & Stuff

Info Dump & Music List

Cool things

vilkacis posted:

Burn, baby, burn.




...but disco will never truly die.

vilkacis posted:



It's the mysterious exploding, un-exploding man! :iiam:

Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Sep 24, 2014

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun

Races of the Vagner system

Since this game doesn't have a lot of lore inside or outside, I'll pretty much copy the short descriptions from the manual and add a few lines from me. It isn't much, but it should give you a better picture.

Human Settlers - Nearly all humans who come to the Vagner System do so with the same goal: make a new start, forge a new life, and find wealth. Most have little fortune but their skills and grit, and find a place mining or farming for one of the large corporations. Dress in the Vagner System is mostly plain and functional - there is little room for luxury in their lives. With their technical know-how and willingness to tackle the toughest challenge, human settlers tend to work in the engineering side of the colonization effort.

Most of the humans that we'll meet, are either hard workers in this new space frontier, or vile mercenaries/bandits that shoot at us. We'll also meet a few powerful and rich individuals, but the majority honestly fits in one of the former two categories. Humanity as a whole, is also pretty much at the top of the galactic chain. The High Senate is based on Earth, and that's where the decisions are made. The Senate does employ members of all races, but humans still seem to call most of the shots. Another part to this is that they invented the warp drive, and kinda educated the other races. So it's a bit like Mass Effect in reverse.

Jaldari Settlers - Significant numbers of Jaldari have made their way to Vagner from their home planet of Datrakan, in the Hasali system. Physically they are much stronger and hardier than either humans or Valleakans, and accordingly they are usually employed as manual laborers. Despite their natural size and strength the Jaldari are not naturally aggressive or warlike, although when roused they are fearsome. On their own world, the Jaldari live in sparse rural settlements, and even in the mines and grubby spaceports they walk with the quiet dignity of a proud, independent people. Their culture is a spiritual and mostly peaceful one; in the Vagner system they have grown fond of human beer and classical music.

The manual tries to paint the Jaldari as gentle giants, that are a bit primitive and in tune with nature. So they're basically Native American monkey-bears in space. But that doesn't come across that well in the game, because you mainly interact with hostile Jaldari. And those guys are quite brutal and like to gently caress poo poo up. There is one particular mission, where you can see them do things that go against everything that the manual said about them. To be fair, there is at least one example of a friendly Jaldari, but the description in the manual is kinda bullshit.

Valleakan Settlers - Travellers in the Vagner system may frequently see a Valleakan handling scientific or financial affairs. This small, agile species originates on the planet Y'trage in the Dela system, where they dwell in small communities in the wetlands. Among spacefarers there is admiration for Valleakan technology and intelligence, but little respect for their ethics - trickery and shrewd trading are valued among the Valleakans in ways that other species (particularly the Jaldari) find difficult to understand. Despite their size, no one should underestimate Valleakean ferocity - these are natural carnivores, and are capable of aggression in both word and deed. In the chaotic, every-humanoid-for-itself Frontier, the Valleakans are thriving.

This description is more or less spot on. Valleakans are pretty much cunning space lizards, that like to make money. Moscone is a good representative of his species, in the sense that he values business but probably shouldn't be trusted beyond that. Valleakans are almost as common as humans, and they also frequently accompany mercs or bandit groups. It's all about the cash, remember?

Wildlife

Arachnids - No one ever properly named these loathsome spider-like pests, and no one knows their exact place of origin. It must lie somewhere in the Vagner system, because shortly after mining began, settlers began discovering them in every ship that traveled in-system, like rats on old sailing ships. Even full depressurization won't always clean a ship out. Their sole virtue is that they feed on cockroaches.

Space spiders are jerks. There really isn't more to say about them.

Spearlegs - Three-legged beings are relatively rare in explored space, but the spearlegs have proved highly successful in their native biosphere. Moving very quickly on three legs, they are capable of outrunning most prey on the wide-open plains. Their staple diet is a small rodent-like creature that moves among the grasses and burrows in the soft ground, but even a lone spearleg will not scruple to prey on humans, which is one of the reasons Gado ranchers go armed.

Also jerks.

Gado - Since ancient times, the Jaldari have bred and eaten Gado on their homeworld in the Hasali system, and generations of domestication have made them the perfect cattle. Each of these beasts weighs seven tons, and nearly all of their body mass can be eaten or utilized in some other way, as their skeletal material is extraordinarily strong. Most of their energy and intellect goes toward eating enough grass to sustain their enormous metabolisms. They are now cultivated on dozens of planets and planetoids. Gado ranching requires fast reflexes and strong nerves - even on a good day, their sheer size and clumsiness makes them dangerous, and a panicked gado could easily lay waste a city block.

Pretty much the future alternative to cows. Aside from looking like a cross between a turtle and a giraffe, their main feature is that they're kinda cute.

Ice Beast - On Korath, the Ice Beast fills roughly the same ecological niche that a polar bear does on earth. These nine-foot-tall shaggy bipeds hibernate throughout most of the day, emerging from their caves to feast on Korattan snappers or any other small prey they can find. On the hunt an ice beast is virtually invisible, and they have been known to pull an ice miner from his post without leaving a trace, beyond a flicker of white motion on a security camera. Their pelts are much prized, but only the bravest will hunt them on the ground.

Not to much to say right now, because the one we saw was caged. But maybe, just maybe, we'll get to see a free one later on :tinfoil:

It was disappointing.



I'm going to link the songs used in the LP in order of occurrence here. But I guess I should mention that I often do a tiny bit of "remixing" to them, so they fit the videos better.

Action Jackson - Start
Vestron Vulture - Elizabeth Shaw
Bourgeoisie - Industrial Sector 3083
Tommy - High Fidelity
DJ Ten - Electric Airglow

Forgotten Illusions - Crystal Contour
Futurecop! - Maladaptive Daydreaming Note: The version used by me, was a promotional WIP mix that has since been taken offline.
Lost Years - Red Horizon
DJ Ten - Zioneon

DJ Ten - Midnight Drive
La Mer des Possibilités
Cartridge - Donovan

Highway Superstar - Halogen City
Analogue Clones - Drifter's Theme
Sellorekt - Systematic

Mulperi - Maximum Velocity
Dynatron - Pulse Power Note: I "missnamed" this one in the credits, because my media tags lied to me.
DJ Ten - Zarnold Choppanegger
Mega Drive - Chemical Plant Zone (MegaMix)
Monomer - Fight of Flight

Drifting Dreamer - Runaway
NIKY NINE - Ozuwara Theme
DANCE WITH THE DEAD - Thrasher
Ice Palace - Reruns

Hugo Rancho - Quattro
Stellar Dreams - The Getaway
Solaris Sound System - Everlasting Glory Note: I restructured this song rather heavy.
DiGERATi - AutoRun IIIkg

Droid Bishop - Nightland
Epoch - Zeta
Vector Hold - Interstate
Amazing Police - Speed In Reverse Note: Another song that I remixed a little bit.

Azure Crime - MPH
Danger Mode - Burning Rubber
Midnight Heir - This Is Vengeance
Dance With The Dead - Only A Dream (demo)

Zombie Hyperdrive - Skylight
Le Matos - Overdog
Shyguys - Journey

Renegade - Convict
Bestrack - Workout 2000
Ryan Riot - Loading Procedure

Perturbator - Miami Disco
Lazerhawk - Fight To The Top
CARPENTER BRUT - SexKiller On The Loose

Evanton - Melody Of Life
WARD IZ - The Chase
Sayak Striker - Hot Run

Miami Night 1984 - Reflex Training Note: Another heavy edit of mine.
Perturbator - She Moves Like A Knife
KN1GHT - Hawk Road (Original Mix)

Mitch Murder feat. EEL - Galaxy Train 1989
Vector Hold - Dangerously Close
Swagbot - RockNRolla
Ward Iz - Let's Roll!

Thomas Barrandon - Feed To Kill Note: The next of my edits.
Le Matos - 58 Minutes pour vivre
APEX 86 - Hot Nights
Kruiser - Before Midnight

Airglow - Cepheid Disk
Ex-Machina - Cyberpower
MK Ultra - Redline Hero

Myrone - The Pump Master
Mr. Flash - Payback
No crAss - Nova
Phaeleh - Should Be True

Daniel Deluxe - King Cyborg
City Project - Dirty Workout
MUSCLE - Steamrollin'

Mega Corp - Last Level Last Life
S U N G - Way Farer
Myrone - Heating Up
Game Of Thrones - Super Audio Time! 1986 Remix
Mowelan - Desert Drift

Jungle Fiction - Transhuman
NightStop - PoWer Prostitute
Tokyo Rose - Zender Overdrive
LA Dreams - When I'm With You

CASTROE - R3303V5000
Scattle - Bloodline
DANCE WITH THE DEAD - Andromeda

DANCE WITH THE DEAD - Invader Note: The last of my edits.
Niky Nine - 909 & Heartbreak
Two Door Cinema Club - Sleep Alone (Chainsmokers Rmx)

Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Dec 19, 2014

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun



Intro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wj58BilO-w

You honestly don't need to watch it, as everything that's said in there, will be repeated. It also wants to make the game look better than it actually is! It's not a bad intro, just kinda unnecessary :shrug:

Chapter 1 - Hold Position

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5adGHxpfz0

We join our hero during a seemingly normal search and rescue mission, but things quickly go south, and he finds himself in a really bad situation.

Mister Xenophobe
Feb 2, 2008
Wow, this game is pretty goddamn early-2000's-shooter.

I've heard the name of this game, and I've seen the box art, but that's the entirety of my knowledge of it, so it'll be interesting to see an actual playthrough.

Ruff_Hunter
Aug 21, 2013
This is one of my all time favourite games. Like you said it's pretty mediocre in places but some moments really shine.
I forgot how awful the voice acting can be though... definitely going to be keeping an eye in this LP.

SineRider
Oct 10, 2012

Come on die young
Man, you were not kidding about the awful audio mix in this game. Just the opening cutscene alone is proof of that.

I vaguely remember this game, seeing it in stores and stuff. Now I get to see what it's all about. Look forward to the rest of the LP, especially the great music!

Kuno
Nov 4, 2008
I'd turn the music down, just a notch.

Otherwise this is cool, the music fits pretty well, especially the crescendo at the end that synced pretty well.

TehGherkin
May 24, 2008
Haven't seen this game in years, had it on PS2 ages ago, never got more than halfway through it, I should try and track a copy down on PC, I bet I could beat it with m+kb.

Enjoyed the first video, so what's your theory on why the aim is bad?

EDIT: Y'know, I didn't think I'd have any feelings one way or the other on the synth music but I actually really like it, makes it feel a bit Cyberpunky

TehGherkin fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Dec 7, 2013

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun

Ruff_Hunter posted:

This is one of my all time favourite games. Like you said it's pretty mediocre in places but some moments really shine.
I forgot how awful the voice acting can be though... definitely going to be keeping an eye in this LP.
Yeah, the VA is pretty bad for the most part! Rollins will get even worse after the next video, because Mace got all gruff and cold from being in prison. Though, there is at least one VA that I like, and he's also in the next video.

SineRider posted:

Man, you were not kidding about the awful audio mix in this game. Just the opening cutscene alone is proof of that.
I really can't understand how the devs could let that fly. I mean, how can you not realize that any spaceship or industrial noise kills everything else? There's a particular part in the next video that I had to duck by like -20Db. It's a bunch of spaceships that form one hellish cacophony. And don't even get me started about how quiet dialog is while there's shooting around you :argh:

Kuno posted:

I'd turn the music down, just a notch.
Noted. I have to mix on a case by case basis a bit, because some songs have higher spikes despite not actually being loud overall, but going a tad softer is no problem. Though, I'll probably always push the music a little bit when there's a section where I have nothing interesting to talk about.

TehGherkin posted:

Haven't seen this game in years, had it on PS2 ages ago, never got more than halfway through it, I should try and track a copy down on PC, I bet I could beat it with m+kb.

Enjoyed the first video, so what's your theory on why the aim is bad?

EDIT: Y'know, I didn't think I'd have any feelings one way or the other on the synth music but I actually really like it, makes it feel a bit Cyberpunky
Glad that people dig the tunes! Aside from being a gimmick that helps me carry this game, I honestly think that the game should have had an electric soundtrack. I always connect orchestral music with something like COD, and think that it's a lazy choice for most other settings. Like, the thought of orchestral=epic, has really become a bad cop out in the FPS industry. Also, the OST is just seriously bland.

I'll write a few words about the aiming thing in a couple of days, when I collected my thoughts and formed them into something coherent. I'll also do a bit of an info dump in the second post. Like a few words about the alien races, and notable people or organizations. This game does have a unique universe, it just doesn't do a whole lot to make use of that. So I'll at least flesh out the pieces that are there.

Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Dec 8, 2013

DStecks
Feb 6, 2012

:stare: Holy crap, I thought the thread title was being facetious. That's some interesting casting.

MinistryofLard
Mar 22, 2013


Goblin babies did nothing wrong.


This was the very first PS2 game I ever played. I was never able to get past the tutorial, mostly because I have no hand-eye coordination and I suck at FPSes. Looking forward to this

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun



Chapter 2 - Trouble at the Temple

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBH_GbWOKKg
After being released from space prison, Mace now starts his new career as a bounty hunter. If he wants to get his revenge, he'll need some money and firepower. And the Guild always has a job for people like him. His first job takes him to a temple ship, whose inhabitants have gone berserk after somebody hacked the mainframe that they're all linked to.

Races of the Vagner system

Since this game doesn't have a lot of lore inside or outside, I'll pretty much copy the short descriptions from the manual and add a few lines from me. It isn't much, but it should give you a better picture.

Human Settlers - Nearly all humans who come to the Vagner System do so with the same goal: make a new start, forge a new life, and find wealth. Most have little fortune but their skills and grit, and find a place mining or farming for one of the large corporations. Dress in the Vagner System is mostly plain and functional - there is little room for luxury in their lives. With their technical know-how and willingness to tackle the toughest challenge, human settlers tend to work in the engineering side of the colonization effort.

Most of the humans that we'll meet, are either hard workers in this new space frontier, or vile mercenaries/bandits that shoot at us. We'll also meet a few powerful and rich individuals, but the majority honestly fits in one of the former two categories. Humanity as a whole, is also pretty much at the top of the galactic chain. The High Senate is based on Earth, and that's where the decisions are made. The Senate does employ members of all races, but humans still seem to call most of the shots. Another part to this is that they invented the warp drive, and kinda educated the other races. So it's a bit like Mass Effect in reverse.

Jaldari Settlers - Significant numbers of Jaldari have made their way to Vagner from their home planet of Datrakan, in the Hasali system. Physically they are much stronger and hardier than either humans or Valleakans, and accordingly they are usually employed as manual laborers. Despite their natural size and strength the Jaldari are not naturally aggressive or warlike, although when roused they are fearsome. On their own world, the Jaldari live in sparse rural settlements, and even in the mines and grubby spaceports they walk with the quiet dignity of a proud, independent people. Their culture is a spiritual and mostly peaceful one; in the Vagner system they have grown fond of human beer and classical music.

The manual tries to paint the Jaldari as gentle giants, that are a bit primitive and in tune with nature. So they're basically Native American monkey-bears in space. But that doesn't come across that well in the game, because you mainly interact with hostile Jaldari. And those guys are quite brutal and like to gently caress poo poo up. There is one particular mission, where you can see them do things that go against everything that the manual said about them. To be fair, there is at least one example of a friendly Jaldari, but the description in the manual is kinda bullshit.

Valleakan Settlers - Travellers in the Vagner system may frequently see a Valleakan handling scientific or financial affairs. This small, agile species originates on the planet Y'trage in the Dela system, where they dwell in small communities in the wetlands. Among spacefarers there is admiration for Valleakan technology and intelligence, but little respect for their ethics - trickery and shrewd trading are valued among the Valleakans in ways that other species (particularly the Jaldari) find difficult to understand. Despite their size, no one should underestimate Valleakean ferocity - these are natural carnivores, and are capable of aggression in both word and deed. In the chaotic, every-humanoid-for-itself Frontier, the Valleakans are thriving.

This description is more or less spot on. Valleakans are pretty much cunning space lizards, that like to make money. Moscone is a good representative of his species, in the sense that he values business but probably shouldn't be trusted beyond that. Valleakans are almost as common as humans, and they also frequently accompany mercs or bandit groups. It's all about the cash, remember?

Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Dec 14, 2013

MinistryofLard
Mar 22, 2013


Goblin babies did nothing wrong.


Is it possible to interact with the NPCs aboard the space station or on the shuttle at all, or are they just sprites with no extra coding?

Phrosphor
Feb 25, 2007

Urbanisation

I am really loving the soundtrack, thanks for putting it in. I always thought this game was actually part of the Star Wars franchise, even thought I had never played it.

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm
Man, say what you will about this game but it has some really strong visual design. The assault rifle, the ships, those cultists and their emoticon masks, it all has a very cool look to it. I never beat this game (I got stuck and all I remember is a lot of rock walls and snipers) so I'm looking forward to seeing you do so. It's so disappointing that it wasn't a better game, because it had such potential.

vilkacis
Feb 16, 2011

This is not the Anime girl of my dreams, curse you Tin Tim :argh:

But seriously I enjoy both the commentary and the music. Cultists and their masks got a good chuckle out of me, too. The first part didn't seem all that exciting but they definitely kicked it up a notch after that.

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun

MinistryofLard posted:

Is it possible to interact with the NPCs aboard the space station or on the shuttle at all, or are they just sprites with no extra coding?
They're just empty shells. Though, there is a very small number of NPC in the game that spout a single line at you when you walk up to them. It's nothing great, but I'll try to record it.

Phrosphor posted:

I am really loving the soundtrack, thanks for putting it in. I always thought this game was actually part of the Star Wars franchise, even thought I had never played it.
Glad that you enjoy it! The game actually has several references/nods in it. For instance, the grenade looks pretty much like the thermal detonator that Leia used to threaten Jabba in her bounty hunter disguise. And the shotgun has a lot of similarities with the assault rifle from Halo. There are more little things, but Star Wars is probably referenced the most :spergin:

Polaron posted:

Man, say what you will about this game but it has some really strong visual design. The assault rifle, the ships, those cultists and their emoticon masks, it all has a very cool look to it. I never beat this game (I got stuck and all I remember is a lot of rock walls and snipers) so I'm looking forward to seeing you do so. It's so disappointing that it wasn't a better game, because it had such potential.
Yeah, you really can't knock the visual design. I mean, it does get a tad samey at the end of the game, but there are a lot of diverse settings between that. You can also extend that to the mission design. You still run around and kill dudes because that's what FPS games do, but the devs at least made up a different setting and goal for each mission.

Also, I think I know which level you mean. And if I'm right, than it's the third chapter. Which is coincidentally the worst level of the whole game :v:

vilkacis posted:

This is not the Anime girl of my dreams, curse you Tin Tim :argh:

But seriously I enjoy both the commentary and the music. Cultists and their masks got a good chuckle out of me, too. The first part didn't seem all that exciting but they definitely kicked it up a notch after that.
If all goes well, I'll have a large update for the other thread on Sunday :ssh:

Also, two random picks from my playlist while I'm getting ready for a night out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b7cj4zWiyo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyZQUEMZlCU

ElTipejoLoco
Feb 27, 2013

Let me fix your avisynth scripts! It'll only take me a couple horus.
I'm surprised you can't lower the volume of some of the longer and louder sound effects which drown out everything, added music included. Doesn't help that the main offenders are space ships with a tendency to fly close to the 'camera' from off-screen during any cinematic scene.
Did the Portal-released-after-this actually seem necessary, or is it just a joke that flew over my head? I don't know how anyone would think otherwise unless they haven't played any other 2003-2004 PS2/Xbox/PC games.

Hyperman1992
Jul 18, 2013
Wow that soundtrack you made for it Tin Tim! I'm really digging it. Is there a way you can make it into a youtube playlist as you go or something? I'd love to listen to the soundtrack.

Also, a 2000 game (The original Deus Ex, and American Mcgee's Alice came out the same year) with that kind of ship navigation? It actually is quite impressive for the time. Although, it seems a little clunky when you are moving around, but still.

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun

ElTipejoLoco posted:

I'm surprised you can't lower the volume of some of the longer and louder sound effects which drown out everything, added music included. Doesn't help that the main offenders are space ships with a tendency to fly close to the 'camera' from off-screen during any cinematic scene.
Did the Portal-released-after-this actually seem necessary, or is it just a joke that flew over my head? I don't know how anyone would think otherwise unless they haven't played any other 2003-2004 PS2/Xbox/PC games.
Nah, I just added that thing for the benifit of people who are not that well versed in FPS history. You never know :v:

Hyperman1992 posted:

Wow that soundtrack you made for it Tin Tim! I'm really digging it. Is there a way you can make it into a youtube playlist as you go or something? I'd love to listen to the soundtrack.

Also, a 2000 game (The original Deus Ex, and American Mcgee's Alice came out the same year) with that kind of ship navigation? It actually is quite impressive for the time. Although, it seems a little clunky when you are moving around, but still.
Glad that you dig it! Yeah, I actually planned to make a list of links in the second post along the way.

Kalvida
Jun 27, 2012

When I was a kid, an issue of Official Xbox Magazine had this level as the Mace Griffin demo on their demo disk. Teenage me thought it was the poo poo that you could step out of the pilot's seat in the middle of flight/combat. Granted, there wasn't really much use but I assumed that it served a larger purpose in the proper game, being hyped as GTA in space and all. So I went and bought the game AND the strategy guide. My first experience with gaming hype and disappointment :v:

Glad to see this getting LP'd. It's not GTA in space but it still has brief good bits. Digging your new soundtrack, even if the game's horrible audio balance drowns it out sometimes :psyduck:

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011


It would be useful if you got boarded! Use lasers to fend off ships and when some assholes stick to your ship, you step away and take care of them the usual way!
And look how fast those elvators go. Eat your heart out, Mass Effect!

Lazyfire
Feb 4, 2006

God saves. Satan Invests

ElTipejoLoco posted:

I'm surprised you can't lower the volume of some of the longer and louder sound effects which drown out everything, added music included. Doesn't help that the main offenders are space ships with a tendency to fly close to the 'camera' from off-screen during any cinematic scene.
Did the Portal-released-after-this actually seem necessary, or is it just a joke that flew over my head? I don't know how anyone would think otherwise unless they haven't played any other 2003-2004 PS2/Xbox/PC games.

Sound design back then and in-game audio options were weird and inconsistent.

Some games would have sliders for music, effects and voice, some would just have a master volume, and others would have no options at all. The lack of directional sound Tim mentions is also something of a thread that ran through FPS games of that era. Some games would have OK design, others would make it impossible to find people yelling at you.

Good work so far, Tim. I always got this game confused with the Warhammer 40k FPS that came out around the same time, so it's good to see what this is all about.

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun

Kai-Len Voss posted:

When I was a kid, an issue of Official Xbox Magazine had this level as the Mace Griffin demo on their demo disk. Teenage me thought it was the poo poo that you could step out of the pilot's seat in the middle of flight/combat. Granted, there wasn't really much use but I assumed that it served a larger purpose in the proper game, being hyped as GTA in space and all. So I went and bought the game AND the strategy guide. My first experience with gaming hype and disappointment :v:

Glad to see this getting LP'd. It's not GTA in space but it still has brief good bits. Digging your new soundtrack, even if the game's horrible audio balance drowns it out sometimes :psyduck:
Yeah, it has several good moments, and that's why it deserves to be seen. It honestly has a lot of neat ideas and could have been ahead of its time in some regards. But it just took the route of many other games, and wasn't developed thoroughly enough. Also, the fact that there was an official strategy guide for it is pretty funny. But it's even more funny that they also tried to base a comic book series on Mace Griffin :v:

SSNeoman posted:

It would be useful if you got boarded! Use lasers to fend off ships and when some assholes stick to your ship, you step away and take care of them the usual way!
And look how fast those elvators go. Eat your heart out, Mass Effect!
That would be loving cool!

Also it's funny that you mention Mass Effect, because I found this post while doing research

A person on a Mass Effect wiki posted:

Iv just started playing mace griffin again as i have missed it and iv noticed some similarities between that and mass effect for starters if you look at the game cover for mace griffin it looks pretty much the same style as the ME3 N7 edition cover , except Shepard had an omni blade and not to mention that they look a lil similar, and also the Ranger ship that Mace uses kinda has a similar style to the Normandy iv only just started playing mace griffin bounty hunter but im curious to see if there are any more im not having a go at bioware in anyway . i am a massive ME fanbot i will admit and companies and designers do use other game as inspiration but still just wondered if anyone else had noticed at all
:tinfoil:

Lazyfire posted:

Sound design back then and in-game audio options were weird and inconsistent.

Some games would have sliders for music, effects and voice, some would just have a master volume, and others would have no options at all. The lack of directional sound Tim mentions is also something of a thread that ran through FPS games of that era. Some games would have OK design, others would make it impossible to find people yelling at you.
That is true, and I would have given the devs some slack, if the internal balance wouldn't be so atrocious. I mean, I have no real idea about how games are made, but at least at one point some person must have tested this and said "You know, that space ship sound is pretty loud. Can't you tone that down a bit?". NOPE :colbert:

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun



Chapter 2 - Trouble at the Temple

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIi3yIPnUVU
With the original route to the mainframe blocked off, Mace has to enter the Temple ship from the top and look for another way. Will he be able to stop the dastardly hacker and save at least some of the space cultists?

Question
At the end of the level, Eridium gets mentioned. This material got kinda famous after being heavily used in the plot and gameplay of Borderlands 2. I tried to research if it gets mentioned in any other game/movie/story, but Google is just so plastered with hits about Borderlands, that I didn't get anywhere. So, do you know if it's featured anywhere else?

Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm

Tin Tim posted:

Question
At the end of the level, Eridium gets mentioned. This material got kinda famous after being heavily used in the plot and gameplay of Borderlands 2. I tried to research if it gets mentioned in any other game/movie/story, but Google is just so plastered with hits about Borderlands, that I didn't get anywhere. So, do you know if it's featured anywhere else?

I am reasonably confident in guessing that they meant Iridium, which is a real substance with a number of scientific uses. It's just pronounced exactly the same :v:

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011


quote:

Iv just started playing mace griffin again as i have missed it and iv noticed some similarities between that and mass effect for starters if you look at the game cover for mace griffin it looks pretty much the same style as the ME3 N7 edition cover , except Shepard had an omni blade and not to mention that they look a lil similar, and also the Ranger ship that Mace uses kinda has a similar style to the Normandy iv only just started playing mace griffin bounty hunter but im curious to see if there are any more im not having a go at bioware in anyway . i am a massive ME fanbot i will admit and companies and designers do use other game as inspiration but still just wondered if anyone else had noticed at all

Because it's such an interesting and unique pose that hasn't been used in any other box art ever.

Another Person
Oct 21, 2010
I remember owning and getting owned by this game - the guns and aiming I just couldn't hack, so I gave up on the second level. The game looks generic as hell, so maybe I am lucky I did. I'm mostly keeping up with this LP for the soundtrack now.

I love how explosions are foreground effects in this game, so they can be seen through walls. You really notice it around 3 mins in the latest video.

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun

Polaron posted:

I am reasonably confident in guessing that they meant Iridium, which is a real substance with a number of scientific uses. It's just pronounced exactly the same :v:
Huh, you never stop learning. :science:

lmao

Another Person posted:

I remember owning and getting owned by this game - the guns and aiming I just couldn't hack, so I gave up on the second level. The game looks generic as hell, so maybe I am lucky I did. I'm mostly keeping up with this LP for the soundtrack now.

I love how explosions are foreground effects in this game, so they can be seen through walls. You really notice it around 3 mins in the latest video.
This may sound weird, but seeing people post about giving up due to the gunplay, confirms to myself that I'm not crazy and that my issues with it are actually real.(Gonna finally post about that on the weekend) But I wouldn't exactly call the game generic. Maybe at it's core, because you basically just shoot dudes and sometimes shoot something else, but the visual design is neat, all missions have a different setting, and the space combat is legit fun. Well, the sections where you aren't on a dickish time limit at least.

Also, good catch about the explosion effects! If you keep an eye out for it, you can see a bunch of graphical problems. For instance, right at the end of the last episode, there was still a bit of fog after the combat which also made an asteriod look weird, and then it just disapeared. You can also observe little objects, like doors on space ships, phase in and out of existence regularly. And during editing, I noticed that most cutscenes have an odd frame before them, where you can see your model get placed or other weird poo poo. It's still a few episodes away, but I encountered a pretty serious bug where the level around me flipped its poo poo, and then threw me into the black abyss. What I'm saying is that this game wasn't made very well!


:siren: Jfyi, I've linked the songs we heard so far in the second post, and will continue to do so.

Lazyfire
Feb 4, 2006

God saves. Satan Invests

The gunplay really looks like it would make the game stupid hard in some scenarios. The standard assault rifle losing accuracy as you fire it in longer bursts along with the enemies taking a significant number of bullets to kill is a bad idea for the gun you expect players to spend most of their time using. I'll also agree that the game isn't as generic as the first level made it seem after getting away from the "Exploding space ship" level that every sci-fi game has to include by law.

The other things you mention, like doors appearing when you get close, or explosions being foreground effects are pretty common resource saving tricks that started gaining prominence in the PS2 era. I can remember the guys who made Enter the Matrix being super proud to show off how that function worked in their game, and I showed off how it appears in Red Faction as well. The foreground explosions worked the same way in Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, you could even get hit through walls by them, so be careful.

I really find the PS2 era of games fascinating because of things like that. The little tricks and techniques people discovered and used then are still relevant now, but instead of fitting tight corridors and details into a small space like back then they are used to make multiplayer maps bigger and put more fidelity into the world.

Kalvida
Jun 27, 2012

SSNeoman posted:

Eat your heart out, Mass Effect!

Is Mace Griffin the Haze to Mass Effect's Halo?

Tin Tim posted:

But it's even more funny that they also tried to base a comic book series on Mace Griffin :v:

:psyduck: Really? I'd love to see it, they were really confident this'd be a big hit weren't they?

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011


Kai-Len Voss posted:

Is Mace Griffin the Haze to Mass Effect's Halo?

Nah. MG actually has thought put into it and wasn't crowbar'd by executives into an awful mess.

Lazyfire
Feb 4, 2006

God saves. Satan Invests

SSNeoman posted:

Nah. MG actually has thought put into it and wasn't crowbar'd by executives into an awful mess.

Does that make it the first Killzone game instead?

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun

Aim Chat

In the opening of the first video, I mentioned that aiming in this game feels kinda weird and is something that you have to get used to. Why? Well, if I had to pin a single reason, then I'd say it's because the game was developed for consoles, and wasn't ported to the PC with a lot of care. The first thing I noticed, was that the relation between mouse and crosshair movement is weird. "That's what the sensitivity slider is for, you idiot!" True, but it's not as simple as that. See, I've been playing FPS games since Doom 2 was a new and hot thing. Since then, I've developed a feeling for what sensitivity I need, and it's pretty consistent across the different games I play. But I had to fiddle really long with the sensitivity slider in this game! It just felt alien to me, and it's kinda hard to convey that feeling with words. So I spent a bit of time to find a setting that works for me, and I honestly can't recall another game which had me do that. At least not from the top of my head. But why is it like that? Well, as said I think it's related to the bad port. I'm not educated about the finer processes behind making a video game, but I imagine that you have to design the movement for sticks on a controller differently than for a mouse. And I think the devs just didn't port that aspect with a lot of care.

But that's not the only problem. The console version of this game had auto aim, and I'm convinced that some sections are designed with this in mind. Some of the space sections are really hard, because they put you on a tight time limit, and throw lots of targets at you. You either need to practice those sections a lot, or just be incredibly gifted at shooting pixels. But how does this factor into the normal gunplay? Well, the devs just deactivated(read: you can't access it) auto aim for the PC version, and I believe that they not removed it fully. You probably won't notice that while watching the videos, but sometimes your crosshair stops a few pixels short of what you're aiming at. Like, I think that the game expects the auto aim to kick in at this point, and stops your movement due to that. It doesn't always happen, but it's frequent enough that I noticed it. So I developed the habit to "over aim" a little bit in this game. I know this sounds weird, but moving my crosshair a tiny bit farther than what I would normally do, gives me a much better rate of getting centered hits.

Okay, now you know my thoughts on the matter. However, I'm aware that it could just be my personal perception, and that I'm maybe too nitpicky when it comes to FPS games. But then again, a few other posters already said that they had issues with the gunplay in this game. So I can't be totally wrong here, right? :)

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun

Sorry for the delay on that post! I don't want to say too much about my personal life, but some sad poo poo happened to a friend of mine and I didn't felt like doing LP things.

Lazyfire posted:

The gunplay really looks like it would make the game stupid hard in some scenarios. The standard assault rifle losing accuracy as you fire it in longer bursts along with the enemies taking a significant number of bullets to kill is a bad idea for the gun you expect players to spend most of their time using. I'll also agree that the game isn't as generic as the first level made it seem after getting away from the "Exploding space ship" level that every sci-fi game has to include by law.

The other things you mention, like doors appearing when you get close, or explosions being foreground effects are pretty common resource saving tricks that started gaining prominence in the PS2 era. I can remember the guys who made Enter the Matrix being super proud to show off how that function worked in their game, and I showed off how it appears in Red Faction as well. The foreground explosions worked the same way in Goldeneye and Perfect Dark, you could even get hit through walls by them, so be careful.

I really find the PS2 era of games fascinating because of things like that. The little tricks and techniques people discovered and used then are still relevant now, but instead of fitting tight corridors and details into a small space like back then they are used to make multiplayer maps bigger and put more fidelity into the world.
Thanks for the :science:

I find it interesting to learn about things like that. It's easy to look at some stuff, and think it's bad design or whatever. But that leaves out the perspective of the times. Like, our current state of games is so advanced, that a lot of older games appear as pieces of poo poo. But in the perspective of their time, they had some clever ideas and tricks in them.

But you're right about the assault rifle! It's really your workhorse, but you will start to curse it in the later stages of the game. Right now I still have plenty of rifle grenades to chuck at shielded enemies, but that'll change. And most of them are horrible bullet-sponges.

Kai-Len Voss posted:

:psyduck: Really? I'd love to see it, they were really confident this'd be a big hit weren't they?
You bet. My guess is that they really wanted to turn Mace into an actual video game hero like Duke, and try to get a franchise going. I have found the cover of the comic, and a few sketches that aren't colored. I'll show them when I post about the concept art, and how cool Mace looked early in development.

Lazyfire
Feb 4, 2006

God saves. Satan Invests

Tin Tim posted:


Thanks for the :science:

I find it interesting to learn about things like that. It's easy to look at some stuff, and think it's bad design or whatever. But that leaves out the perspective of the times. Like, our current state of games is so advanced, that a lot of older games appear as pieces of poo poo. But in the perspective of their time, they had some clever ideas and tricks in them.

But you're right about the assault rifle! It's really your workhorse, but you will start to curse it in the later stages of the game. Right now I still have plenty of rifle grenades to chuck at shielded enemies, but that'll change. And most of them are horrible bullet-sponges.

Not to keep mentioning it, but we're doing sort of similar games from a similar era right now, so some of the stuff I learned or figured out preparing for my LP sort of translates to what you're doing. I find it amazing that some of these things became as popular as they have because they have this horrible tendency to break their concealment due to a number of factors. In BF3 you could approach some objects at the right angle and get stuff to switch from high to low res at a greater or smaller distance than it should have, for example. When playing an older game like this where some of the techniques for saving RAM were in their infancy or not quite perfected I fully encourage breaking them wide open for everyone to see whenever possible.

JossiRossi
Jul 28, 2008

A little EQ, a touch of reverb, slap on some compression and there. That'll get your dickbutt jiggling.
Man, how did I miss a Tin Tim thread? This temp job has finally become too detrimental to me. :( Glad it'll be over soon.

This game is really interesting. There were a lot of games in the 2000's really punching above their capabilities, but at least they were trying. It seems rather rare these days. It doesn't succeed quite, but at least it is interesting.

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun



Chapter 3 - Sharp Shooter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWT0zZgbBY4
His next job sends Mace to a troubled mining outpost. A group of bandits have invaded, and rigged the solar shield generator with explosives. If their demand for money is not met, they'll blow the shield and the outpost gets fried. And Mace also has a personal interest in this job, because the leader of the bandits is apparently an ex-ranger!

Wildlife

Arachnids - No one ever properly named these loathsome spider-like pests, and no one knows their exact place of origin. It must lie somewhere in the Vagner system, because shortly after mining began, settlers began discovering them in every ship that traveled in-system, like rats on old sailing ships. Even full depressurization won't always clean a ship out. Their sole virtue is that they feed on cockroaches.

Space spiders are jerks. There really isn't more to say about them.

Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jan 5, 2014

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun

JossiRossi posted:

Man, how did I miss a Tin Tim thread? This temp job has finally become too detrimental to me. :( Glad it'll be over soon.

Hey Rossi, I miss the Sleeping Dogs thread:respek:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Dickey Butts
Feb 3, 2008

Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
Say what you will about this game, but the soundtrack is loving great. I never played it much when it was new (never got past the technomonks), but Jossi has a good point. This game tried hard. It seems to have failed on a lot of levels, but you can't accuse them of phoning it in.

  • Locked thread