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Bob Quixote posted:You know for all the complaints of the horrific death and destruction in Man of Steel there really weren't too many bystanders on the street getting messed up... I mean, outside of the civillians who got wrecked by the world engines gravity beam. It'll be absurd if people complain about the death and destruction in Godzilla. I think the MOS complaints are over the top, but at least they have something of a point in saying Superman's an optimistic character. Godzilla, on the other hand, is a destructive force in the majority of the movies, so this new one should certainly have plenty of destruction, as long as it doesn't become so bleak as to be depressing.
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Dec 14, 2013 00:28
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I dunno, I am personally looking forward to bleak and depressing. I mean, the original Godzilla was pretty bleak
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Dec 14, 2013 01:33
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It depends on how they do it, I think.
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Dec 14, 2013 01:37
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I'm waiting for "Godzilla is clearly evoking 9/11 with its destructive imagery and display of human suffering in the aftermath of a monster attack."
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Dec 14, 2013 02:22
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Dirk Digglet posted:I'm waiting for "Godzilla is clearly evoking 9/11 with its destructive imagery and display of human suffering in the aftermath of a monster attack." No point in waiting, the director already said it. That said he also describes it as "a global story" and wants his monsters to evoke large-scale disasters in general. The thread that ties it all together seems to be the idea of Godzilla as an avenger. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 03:36
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(Kicks Golden Gate Bridge) This is for nuclear testing! (Kicks Shanghai Pearl Tower) This is for polluting! (Kicks Tokyo Tower) This is for overfishing!
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Dec 14, 2013 05:04
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I know some people are wary of this because of Monsters but I really enjoyed that film.
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Dec 14, 2013 05:31
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I can't for the next Japanese Godzilla movie, so it can be about Godzilla being re-awaken by Fukushima.
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Dec 14, 2013 05:35
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I saw the new Godzilla trailer in front of the Hobbit and it was pretty amazing in 3D.
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Dec 14, 2013 05:53
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Coriolis posted:I love the dead bodies scattered all around that smashed train. Cities are not just empty set-pieces that exist to be wrecked up, they're full of ordinary innocent people going about their lives (I'm looking at you Man of Steel). Wasn't Man of Steel's cavalier attitude to civilians in cities being destroyed one of the reasons people didn't like it? I'm not really sure what you mean.
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Dec 14, 2013 09:24
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Dan Didio posted:Wasn't Man of Steel's cavalier attitude to civilians in cities being destroyed one of the reasons people didn't like it? I'm not really sure what you mean. Yeah, you horrifically see innocent bystanders get crushed under toppling buildings, killed by US military collateral damage, and see them get sucked up by the gravity beam thing from Zod's ship and brutally thrown back down. Their screams just as they're about to be thrown down top off the brutality. I expect the same thing from this film, and I expect the same kind of people to be put off by it.
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Dec 14, 2013 09:39
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I'm actually curious how I'll respond. That bothered me a lot in Man of Steel, because Superman's at least supposed to pay lip service to not letting that poo poo happen, but he didn't even bother, and thus he's a pretty lovely version of Superman. Whereas Godzilla lives in a world without Superman, so it's JUST GONNA HAPPEN. 15 years ago, I wanted nothing more than an awesomely horrifying sort of Godzilla movie where he's taken seriously, and I hated Roland Emmerich for ruining that. Now, it's possible I've seen enough real-life devastation of cities that seeing it for entertainment value is just uncomfortable instead of thrilling.
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Dec 14, 2013 11:17
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Yaws posted:I know some people are wary of this because of Monsters but I really enjoyed that film. Monsters owns. I think it gets such a bad wrap because people go in expecting monsters tearing poo poo up and not a powerful story about people pursing life, liberty, and happiness.
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Dec 14, 2013 14:41
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teagone posted:Yeah, you horrifically see innocent bystanders get crushed under toppling buildings, killed by US military collateral damage, and see them get sucked up by the gravity beam thing from Zod's ship and brutally thrown back down. Their screams just as they're about to be thrown down top off the brutality. I expect the same thing from this film, and I expect the same kind of people to be put off by it. Nah. You see people "die" but you never see anyone dead. No bodies in the aftermath. For the amount of people that died to the gravity machine, it was a pretty clean disaster.
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Dec 14, 2013 15:23
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Dan Didio posted:Wasn't Man of Steel's cavalier attitude to civilians in cities being destroyed one of the reasons people didn't like it? I'm not really sure what you mean. I think a common misconception is that people were averse to the destruction in general in MoS. The argument, though, had more to do with people having a problem with Superman doing very little overtly to take the final part of that battle away from Metropolis. The character was also portrayed as not showing any regard for his surroundings during the battle. This was the problem people had with the movie, not just the destruction in general. The problems were character related, which is a point missed by the "hurrrrr, you didn't like the destruction in MoS so you should have a problem with it in every other movie" crowd. It's amazing how many people can't quite grasp why people had issues with the MoS ending. Those issues were unique to that movie alone. DFu4ever fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 15:26
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Dan Didio posted:Wasn't Man of Steel's cavalier attitude to civilians in cities being destroyed one of the reasons people didn't like it? I'm not really sure what you mean.  Hrm, maybe my memory sucks then. The only harm to civilians I remember was that one office worker Laurence Fiishburn was trying to pry out of the rubble. I just remember thinking if all that had happened to real-world Manhattan we'd probably hate Superman forever, but in the movie no one really gives a poo poo. Anyhow, I didn't mean to start a derail on a totally different movie. Coriolis fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 15:52
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Sylink posted:So godzilla is actually here to help solve the banking crisis When Godzilla occupies Wallstreet, he really occupies Wallstreet edit: don't really know why we're spoiler jokes.
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Dec 14, 2013 18:47
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Looks like this is a movie aimed at pleasing Toho fans: http://howtoraiseageek.tumblr.com/post/69986506497/max-borenstein-is-a-writer-on-next#permalink-notes. (Spoilers, but not plot spoilers per se.)
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Dec 14, 2013 18:53
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Here's a thought: what if everything we're seeing of Godzilla in the trailer is basically Big G showing up to kick monster rear end? That if that destruction is the result of the other monsters' rampage? I mean, we think the military is going after him, but what if they're really going after the other two?
Davros1 fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Dec 14, 2013 |
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Dec 14, 2013 18:58
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EvilTobaccoExec posted:Monsters owns. HELLO! Much like Valhalla Rising I went into it with a completely different experience in mind. I really should watch MONSTERS again sometime now that I know it's not a "Kaiju" movie. Also knowing it was made on a shoestring budget and of course, for the soundtrack. Which may be my favourite soundtrack ever. Beautiful stuff. So hyped for this though. Never really got into the old Godzilla films despite loving Kaiju I can't really put a finger on it but they neer really hooked me.
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Dec 14, 2013 19:17
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I liked Monsters alot, but even if you didn't, I think you have to at least appreciate that an auteur indie director is being given the reigns to a commercial franchise like Godzilla. We got the big-shot action director version, and it was terrible, so I'm excited to see someone with some style take a swing. And one of the things I loved about Monsters is that the creatures had real "weight" - they felt like real animals that existed in their environment in a real way, which is pretty rare in monster movies. I think it's a pretty inspired choice.
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Dec 14, 2013 22:10
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teagone posted:I expect the same thing from this film, and I expect the same kind of people to be put off by it. The complaints aren't the same, so why would the same kind of people be put off by Godzilla? DFu4ever posted:The problems were character related, which is a point missed by the "hurrrrr, you didn't like the destruction in MoS so you should have a problem with it in every other movie" crowd. It's amazing how many people can't quite grasp why people had issues with the MoS ending. Those issues were unique to that movie alone. This fella gets it. Lets! Get! Weird! fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 01:16
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The Nozzle posted:So what you're saying is Godzilla fights a Metal Gear. I'm okay with this. To get to the real ending of the movie, the audience has to go into the adjacent theater.
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Dec 15, 2013 09:40
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Coriolis posted:
It's implied death and violence. And I suppose someone would argue "So what? You didn't SEE them die, so how do you know?" Because the film showed me people were in that area. The scene that bothered people, or at least most people, wasn't the scene with the giant machine of doom killing everyone. That's expected. It's horrible. But it's expected. What bothered people like me was the fight scene in the middle of a crowded street where people are everywhere, most likely getting pelted by rubble and glass. And possibly dying. During the beginning of the fight scene, Superman fights with Zod, and they keep cutting back to humans watching. There's a shot where people are standing less then a few blocks away from a building as it collapses, smoke and rubble spreading everywhere. We've all seen the 9/11 videos. We know smoke and rubble doesn't just stop before it hits anyone. That poo poo is going to cover all those people. But then afterward, we see Superman get thrown into the street, where there are clearly people running out of the way. Close ups, fight scene/destruction, then more close up, them more fight scenes/destruction. What that is doing is letting our brain know that these people are here, and are in danger. And Superman isn't doing anything about it...which is basically the core of his whole character...right? It really frustrated me, because there's no way those people survived all that destruction. Especially considering if there's that many people still on the street, how many people do you think are still in the building? Perhaps in the one Zod took down? Or maybe the one Superman sonically destroyed with his incredible force? Had they not shown anybody else aside from Zod and Superman, no one would've payed attention except the most nitpicky fan. But this was all in your face. Will Godzilla have the same issue? Not at all. Godzilla IS a destructive force. He SHOULD destroy all of the city. 9/11 images be damned. It would make a lot of sense for the film to feel like a disaster tragedy. But a tentpole summer popcorn superhero movie really shouldn't be bringing up those emotions. It feels false, and unearned. There's a time and place for things like that. And Superman isn't one of them. But Godzilla? He's basically a walking metaphor for the atrocities of mankind.
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Dec 15, 2013 10:08
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I'm inclined to agree with that. For all its faults, at least one thing that Superman Returns got right was that it showed Superman rushing around to save as many people as he could before flying off to stop Luthor.
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Dec 15, 2013 10:44
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Funny thing, you guys comparing the violence in the Superman movies. Godzilla 1954 is mindblowingly terrifying in that regard. Sure, every Godzilla movie features buildings getting kicked and punched and blown up, but the original film gets way more up close and personal. It has a scene in a hospital where you see all the victims of Godzilla. Maimed bodies. Children who are showing up on geiger counters. Overfilled hospitals with bodies strewn around the halls. This movie came out not even one decade after Hiroshima. I mean, holy poo poo, can you imagine what was going through audience's minds seeing this poo poo 
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Dec 15, 2013 13:37
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Steve Yun posted:It has a scene in a hospital where you see all the victims of Godzilla. Maimed bodies. Children who are showing up on geiger counters. Overfilled hospitals with bodies strewn around the halls. I always thought the way people died when getting smog hosed was way worse, or getting shat upon by a kaiju which would of been the same thing regarding Hedorah.
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Dec 15, 2013 15:02
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I seem to recall there being two types of arguments about Man of Steel, while some were indeed only upset Superman didn't save enough people, others were trying to make a statement about destruction in movies as a whole. I'll be curious to see what those people expect from a Godzilla movie if not destruction and death.
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Dec 15, 2013 15:56
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Beeez posted:I seem to recall there being two types of arguments about Man of Steel, while some were indeed only upset Superman didn't save enough people, others were trying to make a statement about destruction in movies as a whole. I'll be curious to see what those people expect from a Godzilla movie if not destruction and death. Putting bets on "They're trying to evoke 9/11" and "It's too much like 9/11".
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Dec 15, 2013 16:03
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Half the complaints about MoS are based on "but that's not who Superman's supposed to be!" instead of engaging with the movie on hand, and the other half are built on outright failure to identify what happens in the film or assumptions about what happens offscreen.
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Dec 15, 2013 16:40
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Half the complaints about MoS are based on "but that's not who Superman's supposed to be!" instead of engaging with the movie on hand, and the other half are built on outright failure to identify what happens in the film or assumptions about what happens offscreen. The first is a legitimate complaint about the film. I don't understand why CD takes issue with someone airing a valid complaint about a movie - failing to capture a character properly is a failure of a movie. You can still discuss the movie we got but also say "Snyder and Co. completely failed to understand or capture the character of Superman and it comes off like a cynical copy of other 'dark' superhero films". Plus the movie tried to have it both ways. The second you're straight up wrong. It's all neither here nor there because as someone else pointed out the original Godzilla is a horror film and it would be right for the movie to showcase death and destruction on a massive scale. computer parts posted:Because the analogous complaint is saying that Zeus committing adultery is out of character because he didn't do it in Disney's Hercules. Goons are loving horrid at analogies. Lets! Get! Weird! fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 17:03
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Lets! Get! Weird! posted:The first is a legitimate complaint about the film. I don't understand why CD takes issue with someone airing a valid complaint about a movie - failing to capture a character properly is a failure of a movie. You can still discuss the movie we got but also say "Snyder and Co. completely failed to understand or capture the character of Superman and it comes off like a cynical copy of other 'dark' superhero films". Plus the movie tried to have it both ways. Because the analogous complaint is saying that Zeus committing adultery is out of character because he didn't do it in Disney's Hercules. Lets! Get! Weird! posted:
No, it's just that stupid of a complaint. computer parts fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Dec 15, 2013 |
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Dec 15, 2013 17:08
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Lets! Get! Weird! posted:The first is a legitimate complaint about the film. No it isn't. Superman has been all kinds of things over the years, and Clark himself in MoS isn't even that far from the traditional Superman in terms of his goodness and motivation. What actually gets people's panties in a twist is that the world of MoS isn't as conveniently set up for Superman to engage in easy, consequence-free heroics -- he "ignores" people in Metropolis because running around saving individuals wouldn't be the right thing to do under the circumstances. He can save more lives in other ways. Which would be a good message even if it weren't "Supermanly" (and I won't even say it isn't.) Lets! Get! Weird! posted:It's all neither here nor there because as someone else pointed out the original Godzilla is a horror film and it would be right for the movie to showcase death and destruction on a massive scale. This is true, though. Godzilla's been through an even wider range of presentations.
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Dec 15, 2013 17:09
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Man of Steel chat has become the new Prometheus chat as that which infects all threads. Godzilla rules.
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Dec 15, 2013 17:18
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The big problem with Man of Steel was that it was boring, emotionless, gray and not a good movie anyway. Also it had horrible dialogues. E: But yes, Godzilla does rule.
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Dec 15, 2013 17:20
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Watch Godzilla be the hero that protect lives and all the destruction is from other Kaiju and Godzilla goes out of his way to not topple buildings. Also, he dances at the end.
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Dec 15, 2013 17:26
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Watch Godzilla be the hero that protect lives and all the destruction is from other Kaiju and Godzilla goes out of his way to not topple buildings. As long as it's not like Johnny Depp Hatter.
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Dec 15, 2013 17:26
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Watch Godzilla be the hero that protect lives and all the destruction is from other Kaiju and Godzilla goes out of his way to not topple buildings. Let's look at the structure of this film real quick. Environmental disasters caused by mankind wake up not one, but several monsters. One of them is bug-like, and the other is suspected to be some kind of flying monster that shows up later. Godzilla fights against them, and humanity intervenes in the middle of the fight to do... something, it's not clear what. Perhaps like an earlier poster suggested, they're there to help Godzilla. Guys, it's a remake of Godzilla vs. Megalon. 
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Dec 15, 2013 17:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGNhLZuD6a8 in glorious IMAX 3D or whatever format this is coming out.
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Dec 15, 2013 17:32
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As noted before, Godzilla and Superman are roughly the same character. Gamera as well. The entirety of Gamera 3: Revenge of Iris is about the lack of contradiction between Gamera being friend to all children and Gamera obliterating a populated city. Gamera obliterates a populated city because he's friend to all children.
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Dec 15, 2013 17:39
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