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Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

President of
the Brendan Fraser
Fan Club



The final movie in the original series is pretty drat good.

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Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

The original movies are good for a marathon, in the same way the Rocky films are. The only bad movie in the franchise is the Burton one.

e: v Rises doesn't even really HAVE any appeals to nostalgia in it, except for the 'dirty ape' line. It works on the strength of its characters.

Mantis42 fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 9, 2014

Myrddin_Emrys
Mar 27, 2007

by Hand Knit

Timeless Appeal posted:

Yes.

Beneath is a bit boring despite being so weird, but it does set-up the remainder of the films.

Escape is probably my favorite of the sequels. It's a really weird movie.

I'm not a huge fan of Conquest and Battle, but they are still pretty fun movies. They deviate from humans as animals to just a subjugated minority which I've never found that as interesting. They're analogues for Rise and Dawn, respectively. Battle definitely gives a definitive yet ambiguous ending for the series for what it's worth.

Back in the 90s, Sci/Fi aired all five movies over the course of five days. It might have been the most important week of my childhood. When Rises came up, my roommate hated it. And, yes, he's wrong. But he argued that my love for the movie stems from my nostalgia. My DVD collection built into a bust of Caesar made it hard to disagree with him.

I do not know anybody who hates Rises. Your room mate is obviously a genetically flawed human being and needs to be disposed of to ensure his DNA is taken out of the gene pool.

PriorMarcus
Oct 17, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY

Myrddin_Emrys posted:

I do not know anybody who hates Rises. Your room mate is obviously a genetically flawed human being and needs to be disposed of to ensure his DNA is taken out of the gene pool.

My girlfriend thought it was a dumb mindless action film and the moment when Cesar first speaks was dumb.

I don't loving understand that outlook one bit.

GonSmithe
Apr 25, 2010

Perhaps it's in the nature of television. Just waves in space.

PriorMarcus posted:

My girlfriend thought it was a dumb mindless action film and the moment when Cesar first speaks was dumb.

I don't loving understand that outlook one bit.

Caesar saying "No!" is one of the most powerful scenes in a movie I've seen in a good while. You could have heard a pin drop in the (full) theater I saw it in opening night from how shocked everyone was.

Myrddin_Emrys
Mar 27, 2007

by Hand Knit

PriorMarcus posted:

My girlfriend thought it was a dumb mindless action film and the moment when Cesar first speaks was dumb.

I don't loving understand that outlook one bit.

I fear she is not the right person for you.

GonSmithe posted:

Caesar saying "No!" is one of the most powerful scenes in a movie I've seen in a good while. You could have heard a pin drop in the (full) theater I saw it in opening night from how shocked everyone was.

I completely agree, it was an unbelievably powerful scene with I think one of the best 'WHAT THE gently caress' moments I have ever seen on screen.

PriorMarcus
Oct 17, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY

Myrddin_Emrys posted:

I fear she is not the right person for you.


I completely agree, it was an unbelievably powerful scene with I think one of the best 'WHAT THE gently caress' moments I have ever seen on screen.

So do I. That scene is probably my favourite scene from a big budget movie in years.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
My dad's favorite two sci-fi movies from the past few years are Prometheus and Rise of the Planet of the Apes, and this has brought us closer as father and son.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006
My roommate refused to believe that apes could be taught sign language. So, yes, it's definitely a personal flaw of his. My bust just didn't make it easy to argue that nostalgia or fandom wasn't playing a role.

Speaking of that DVD collection though, it includes a really awesome documentary that I think originally aired on TCM. It goes very in depth into the production of the original and all the sequels. Including the explanation that the ending of Beneath of the Planet of the Apes was done specifically so there would not be a sequel. If you can track it down, it's really worth a watch.

GonSmithe posted:

Caesar saying "No!" is one of the most powerful scenes in a movie I've seen in a good while. You could have heard a pin drop in the (full) theater I saw it in opening night from how shocked everyone was.
It's such a well earned moment. I think the incredible thing about Rise of the Planet of the Apes is that it meets the real sense of wonder in its special effects that the original film did. The make-up in Planet of the Apes is incredible, and I think it's hard to really compare it to any contemporary sci/fi films. And Rise did such a good job with its CGI apes that I never really question their existence in the film. They just fit in. Caesar feels like such a real creature that beyond the drama of the "NO," there is a sense of amazement that this animal is talking.

Myrddin_Emrys
Mar 27, 2007

by Hand Knit

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

My dad's favorite two sci-fi movies from the past few years are Prometheus and Rise of the Planet of the Apes, and this has brought us closer as father and son.

I originally read that as Pocahontas and not Prometheus and laughed long and hard. Imagine my disappointment when I read that back.

LesterGroans
Jun 9, 2009

It's funny...

You were so scary at night.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

My dad's favorite two sci-fi movies from the past few years are Prometheus and Rise of the Planet of the Apes, and this has brought us closer as father and son.

Your father is a dude among dudes, let me tell ya.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours
He likes every sci-fi movie, I should have hedged.

Darko
Dec 23, 2004

PriorMarcus posted:

My girlfriend thought it was a dumb mindless action film and the moment when Cesar first speaks was dumb.

I don't loving understand that outlook one bit.

I've broken up with women for less. Clearly not compatible as an earlier poster said.

I don't think Burton's movie is "bad" - the makeup and the villain make it rise above that on its own due to having such interesting elements to it.

It, however, is one of the most purely mediocre movies I've seen, which makes it almost a waste of time, outside of those elements above.

Shards of Fate
Apr 19, 2002

They look like monsters to you?
I watched this movie last night and I was bored by it. Rise of the Planet of the Apes was a way better movie in term of building emotions, attachment and entertainment. Gary Oldman was wasted. The whole movie seemed so small scale compared to the original.

Shadowhand00
Jan 23, 2006

Golden Bear is ever watching; day by day he prowls, and when he hears the tread of lowly Stanfurd red,from his Lair he fiercely growls.
Toilet Rascal

PriorMarcus posted:

My girlfriend thought it was a dumb mindless action film and the moment when Cesar first speaks was dumb.

I don't loving understand that outlook one bit.

My girlfriend couldn't speak for 30 minutes after the movie because she was just so into the movie emotionally. It really struck her, especially in the moment that Casear says "No!"

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

I liked Rise a lot, but it was pretty flawed. Every human actor in the movie was out-acted by CGI apes for example. Funnily enough, this trend continues in Dawn, though the gap between the two is much smaller.

Szmitten
Apr 26, 2008

Mantis42 posted:

e: v Rises doesn't even really HAVE any appeals to nostalgia in it, except for the 'dirty ape' line. It works on the strength of its characters.

Technically it has "Bright Eyes", the stuff about Icarus, and "No!" being the first word is a canonical thing, but those are super subtle things.

Diabolik900
Mar 28, 2007

A lot of the character names, especially for the apes, were references to actors or characters from the first movie. It's been a while since I've seen it though, so I don't remember how many of the names are actually stated in the film.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003

by Hand Knit

Timeless Appeal posted:

And Rise did such a good job with its CGI apes that I never really question their existence in the film.

My friend who I saw Rise with questioned the amount of Orangutans because "no zoo has that many."

Then again I would not be surprised if he has the same DVD collection you do, so he earns a pass for that.

Szmitten posted:

Technically it has "Bright Eyes", the stuff about Icarus, and "No!" being the first word is a canonical thing, but those are super subtle things.

I don't think "No!" can really even count as a callback, it's a major part of the Caesar mythology, and if you're going to have a movie about him, it's going to be a major plot point.

Tezzeract
Dec 25, 2007

Think I took a wrong turn...

Timeless Appeal posted:

My roommate refused to believe that apes could be taught sign language. So, yes, it's definitely a personal flaw of his. My bust just didn't make it easy to argue that nostalgia or fandom wasn't playing a role.

I didn't realize that monkeys loved drinking booze and chilling in hot springs either. Monkeys own.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006
Well, I'm glad you're on my side.

But we be talking about apes son. :colbert:

Drunkboxer
Jun 30, 2007
So you built a bust out of dvds?

edit: never mind, it's a box set I googled it.

Professor Beetus
Apr 12, 2007

They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

Drunkboxer posted:

So you built a bust out of dvds?

edit: never mind, it's a box set I googled it.

I just assumed Timeless Appeal was a chick and his roommate wouldn't take her seriously because tits.

Mouser..
Apr 1, 2010

Peter K Rosenthal from the Onion loves this movie and demands more reboots, remakes and sequels of reboots.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

I demand musicals!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n8BPv43vhE

VoteTedJameson
Jan 10, 2014

And stack the four!
So I just got back from a double feature of Rise/Dawn and now I have every feeling. Dawn was just such good film-making front to back, but my one gripe would be that the plot really moves very little. If you've seen the trailer, you know the entirety of the plot. I enjoyed all 170 minutes but it was pretty frustrating to realize that I'll have to wait at least a year to see the plot thread of the new timeline actually advance.

MisterBibs
Jul 17, 2010

dolla dolla
bill y'all
Fun Shoe

GonSmithe posted:

Caesar saying "No!" is one of the most powerful scenes in a movie I've seen in a good while. You could have heard a pin drop in the (full) theater I saw it in opening night from how shocked everyone was.

I'll never forget that moment in the theaters. The dude makes the Damned Dirty Ape line and a mild chuckle rolls throughout the theater.

Then the No line drops, and I hear every goddamn person take a shocked breath in. One of the best in-theater moments for me.

Just got out of the sequal and I think I need processing time. That said, I think I liked the original a shade more. But Christ if Koba was loving terrifying.

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

AV Club reviewed it. It's a pretty terrible review, spending a good chunk on how because it's a prequel we know where the story leads (the same complaint can be made about any adaption from pre-existing source material) and whining about what it isn't instead of accepting it for what it is.

They've really let the quality of their reviews slide, it's a shame.

There's also this (spoilered):

quote:

Strangely, the book they bond over is Charles Burns’ graphic novel Black Hole—a choice of little apparent thematic significance, though viewers should probably be grateful that Reeves didn’t go in the opposite direction and cut to a close-up of Animal Farm.

Little thematic significance? What about the astronauts that are going to be inevitably introduced? It's setting up Maurices' future understanding of the astronauts and their fate. It's a very subtle and brilliant piece of foreshadowing.

turtlecrunch
May 14, 2013

Hesitation is defeat.
Nice no true Scotsman fallacy at the end. I guess apes really are no better than men. :smug:

Attention Horse
Jan 5, 2012

Yo man, you are out of step with Imhotep!
Holy gently caress, what a movie. I really loved Rise, but Dawn is better in pretty much every way. I can't wait where Reeves will take this franchise.

edit: huh, looks like there's a scene in this trailer that isn't in the movie. Skip to 1:51 - huge, working military ship and tons of people on the bridge. Was there a scene after the credits that I missed?

Attention Horse fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Jul 11, 2014

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!


:smith: I won't be able to see Dawn until next week's Friday. I thought it would have an early international release,but it seems it's a no. I'll cry in my corner and avoid spoilers. But thanks a lot for keeping my hopes high in that I will enjoy it.

TheBigBudgetSequel
Nov 25, 2008

It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.

Attention Horse posted:

Holy gently caress, what a movie. I really loved Rise, but Dawn is better in pretty much every way. I can't wait where Reeves will take this franchise.

edit: huh, looks like there's a scene in this trailer that isn't in the movie. Skip to 1:51 - huge, working military ship and tons of people on the bridge. Was there a scene after the credits that I missed?

While I haven't seen the movie, I do know that Matt Reeves ended up re-shaping the ending of the movie, so perhaps what you are talking about was from that section. It's also not rare for things in trailers to not show up at all.

MeinPanzer
Dec 20, 2004
anyone who reads Cinema Discusso for anything more than slackjawed trolling will see the shittiness in my posts

TheBigBudgetSequel posted:

While I haven't seen the movie, I do know that Matt Reeves ended up re-shaping the ending of the movie, so perhaps what you are talking about was from that section. It's also not rare for things in trailers to not show up at all.

Huh, definitely looks like Reeves had the military actually arriving in the end of a previous version of the movie, even if it was only shown briefly to build up to the major war in the third film. That certainly would've changed the feel of the ending.

dreffen
Dec 3, 2005

MEDIOCRE, MORSOV!

Yeah there was no post credits stinger. Just a thing talking about how many jobs the production provided.


Koba double fisting the m249s is the greatest triumph in modern cinema.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004
Just got my ticket for after work, pretty drat pumped. First movie that I've bothered to see immediately in ages.

BOAT SHOWBOAT
Oct 11, 2007

who do you carry the torch for, my young man?
Are we so cynical that this is what passes for "great filmmaking" now? Any blockbuster that gets the slightest rise of emotion out of us? This film is really getting way overrated. There isn't a moment in it that you won't predict and the whole thing is very by-the-numbers. There are a few scenes which are above average but it's mostly bland and forced. Many of the scenes are TV-movie level.

MeinPanzer
Dec 20, 2004
anyone who reads Cinema Discusso for anything more than slackjawed trolling will see the shittiness in my posts

BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:

Are we so cynical that this is what passes for "great filmmaking" now? Any blockbuster that gets the slightest rise of emotion out of us? This film is really getting way overrated. There isn't a moment in it that you won't predict and the whole thing is very by-the-numbers. There are a few scenes which are above average but it's mostly bland and forced. Many of the scenes are TV-movie level.

I agree to a certain extent, but I think it is so highly rated because it's a rare example of a summer blockbuster that excels at what it is trying to do. That being said, I have a few problems with it. Let me preface the following comments by saying that I really enjoyed the movie.

This is basically one movie comprised of two very different stories: a restrained, slow-build film about the contact between the humans and the apes and the diplomacy involved, and then a campy action movie. I actually found pretty discordant, because you're watching these measured, skilfully-arranged scenes dealing with the fragile creation of trust and filled with emotion and reflection, and then you get moments like Koba single-handedly taking down the human defences with two M-16s on horseback and everything devolves into stupid setups like the C-4 plot and Caesar confronting Koba on top of a tower a day after being shot.

On the emotion front, I thought that a lot of it was fairly by the numbers, and I think that they actually missed a lot of opportunities to make more of an impact on the audience. For instance, when Keri Russel's (who was terrible, by the way) character goes to give human medicine to Caesar's wife, why isn't this turned into a bigger issue for the apes, most of whom were subjected to medical testing by the humans? That would fit perfectly into the themes of building trust between two groups which distrust each other because of perceived past wrongs. Koba in particular goes from being a character whose past is barely touched upon but who is ripe for exploration into a cookie-cutter villain in the transition between the two halves.

By the way, this movie does have some great shots. The one that stands out for me now is the rotating shot from the APC during the assault on the human colony.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours

BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:

Are we so cynical that this is what passes for "great filmmaking" now? Any blockbuster that gets the slightest rise of emotion out of us? This film is really getting way overrated. There isn't a moment in it that you won't predict and the whole thing is very by-the-numbers. There are a few scenes which are above average but it's mostly bland and forced. Many of the scenes are TV-movie level.

Isn't that the opposite of cynical? Or just the inappropriate word. I would say that predicting what will happen next in films and TV shows is far more jaded.

Xeremides
Feb 21, 2011

There Diomedes aimed and stabbed, he gouged him down
his glistening flesh and wrenched the spear back out
and the brazen god of war let loose a shriek, roaring,
thundering loud as nine, ten thousand combat soldiers
shriek with Ares' fury when massive armies clash.

MeinPanzer posted:

This is basically one movie comprised of two very different stories: a restrained, slow-build film about the contact between the humans and the apes and the diplomacy involved, and then a campy action movie. I actually found pretty discordant, because you're watching these measured, skilfully-arranged scenes dealing with the fragile creation of trust and filled with emotion and reflection, and then you get moments like Koba single-handedly taking down the human defences with two M-16s on horseback and everything devolves into stupid setups like the C-4 plot and Caesar confronting Koba on top of a tower a day after being shot.


Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's not get crazy here.

Koba was dual-wielding loving SAWs while riding a horse at a high rate of speed, suppressing maybe a dozen closely-packed individuals with accurate fire which allowed the apes to close with and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver.

This poo poo is taken straight out of the manual, man.

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Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006
Just got back, and I loved it. The human character are definitely the weak spot. Nobody is terrible, but Caesar and Koba are just so well performed that the human actors look weak in comparison. But it's a movie that is aware of its strengths. The film starting with a close-up of Caesar's face makes it clear that this is his story. The movie also doesn't bother telling you about man's inhumanity or how we're the real monsters. Rises already accomplished that as did the original films. It's belabored point, and it's never really humanity that is at stake. The stakes are completely centered around the apes.

The production design was also great. The overgrown San Francisco and the ape village were both fantastic. I love the little artifacts to evacuation zones in the San Francisco sets.

I also really recommend seeing this in 3D. It's not murky at all, and the sense of depth really helps makes the forest come alive.

BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:

Are we so cynical that this is what passes for "great filmmaking" now? Any blockbuster that gets the slightest rise of emotion out of us? This film is really getting way overrated. There isn't a moment in it that you won't predict and the whole thing is very by-the-numbers. There are a few scenes which are above average but it's mostly bland and forced. Many of the scenes are TV-movie level.
Dude, there is tons of great cinema out there and your vague criticisms don't really do much to suggest why this movie shouldn't be appreciated.

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