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Wayside Bazaar posted:I think her awful choice in making her few friends as well as Fiona (and her father, mother, and two older brothers) not being there for her when she is entering adolescence is at fault for that...I don't think she's a bad person now but I agree it really isn't enjoyable to watch. She still seems like the same old Debs when she's around her adult boyfriend for example (compared to how she has been acting around her family/friends) but is obviously just really confused about herself and what she is doing. Debs' storyline this year is sort've weird since you really need the full series context (and it would probably even help if it were fresh in your memory) in order for it to really click. I watched enough of the marathon that aired a few weeks before this season started to be reminded of what a sweetheart she is, so she still has a lot of good will built up in my book. But yeah, if you just look at it in the context of this season it looks more like she is being a dumb poo poo head than that she is struggling with growing up, half her family abandoning her, and general naivety. Even so, her scene with Fiona this past episode helped a lot to re-humanize her, hopefully there is more stuff like that in the coming weeks.
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Feb 6, 2014 19:36
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teagone posted:I also really enjoyed Lip's romp through Chicago to find Ian. His actions this episode painted a pretty definitive picture that says, at least to me, that Lip is finally starting to realize he's the only one who can save his family from the poo poo life they've been living. See, my wife thought this too but to me his expression at the end of the episode was 100% "the second I left the family everything went to utter poo poo". Also he is literally the only adult Gallagher around at the moment so this is just going to completely derail his college chances. Also I didn't fully buy Fiona and Vi being THAT irresponsible with loving coke around Liam. They have been shown to indulge before but holy poo poo, this puts them in Frank and Monica territory at least and Fiona was never about that. If she had just forgotten to throw away the stash and he ate it thinking it was sugar or something (do Pixie Sticks still exist?) that would be one thing, but this was just too out of character for 3 people who used to be among the more reasonably responsible adults.
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Feb 10, 2014 06:17
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BreakAtmo posted:That and the fact that Frank just keeps loving things up for everyone and doesn't give a poo poo. Fiona is a fantastic, selfless parent most of the time - it's just that when she makes mistakes, they blow up like nukes, and she feels terrible about it, which is more than I can say for Frank. Neglect is neglect, and the kind that leads to child death is potentially worse than the kind that just makes all of your kids hate you. This is why I said the coke thing was totally out of character for Fiona, and it would have been better if there was some other circumstance that lead to Liam ingesting the coke. Like she just forgot to throw it out or he got past a baby gate or something (he might be too old for one at this point I guess I dunno). Another thing that is easy to forget because of the ramp up of drama over the past few seasons is how Frank started out as just kind of comically neglectful, instead of as a direct danger to the family. Like, I was remembering the season 1 episode where he got sober and they got so annoyed with him that they eventually forced him to drink.
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Feb 13, 2014 17:27
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pkay posted:No neglect is not neglect. If Liam had gotten into a bottle draino, would it be the same? Is the bottle of draino sitting out with the childproof cap off, or put away under the sink with the cap on? Has Fiona been taking pulls from the bottle of draino so that her impressionable baby sibling would try and emulate her? Is anyone watching the baby while the dangerous draino is sitting out and while other people are drinking from it and laughing and having fun? Like I get your point that things can happen and you can't protect a baby 100% from every eventuality, and in every other circumstance Fiona has been a model parent who had one slip up. But this was a pretty loving bad slip up.
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Feb 17, 2014 20:02
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merk posted:Fiona has insurance through the cup place that will magically find its way to cover Frank once she is the one donating. I want to say when my mom gave my (adult) brother a kidney, the cost of both was covered by my brother's insurance. I don't know that this would work the other way though? But yeah, I agree with the whole "Frank needs to be saved to further fool CPS" angle being a good way to force Fiona (or Lip for that matter) into giving Frank a liver. Once the CPS lady finds out that their only active guardian is the one on trial for allowing the youngest to ingest coke they will need a way to keep everyone together. The money is obviously a huge issue, but I am sure they will run some kind of world-class Gallagher level scam like Frank did with the gay rights movement last season. Maybe he will become the face of the health care movement since he will have a liver lined up and be at death's door but with 5 kids and no way to pay for it, etc.
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Feb 18, 2014 21:40
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Crusty Nutsack posted:Even if the liver doesn't play into it at all, I think there's a real possibility that new sister could take over guardianship. Actually, based on the last episode I am starting to get the vibe that Frank may have totally messed up and this lady is not his daughter at all. They weren't a match and Frank completely didn't seem to remember who exactly her mother was. Also, based on some future episode titles (spoilers for episode titles but otherwise pure speculation) the 11th episode of the season is titled "Emily". Now, there is no Emily on the show as far as I can remember, and I am not sure why the episode would be titled that unless it was a character being introduced who is super important, like maybe the birth of Kev and Vi's sister-daughter. But it could also be that Frank got the wrong girl and has to find his actual daughter who turns out to be this Emily. This could potentially lead into the finale, which doesn't have a title so far and would probably feature Frank's surgery.
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Feb 18, 2014 21:51
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Yeah, there are 11 total listed on wiki but there is a 12th one that hasn't had a title released.
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Feb 25, 2014 15:45
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JEEVES420 posted:To be fair "flicking" a revolver is actually really bad for it and will throw the timing on the cylinder off. But when has Shameless been "realistic" on things like that. That makes the joke even better because Kev clearly didn't know what he was doing as evidenced by the way he handled the gun and the fact that he is apparently the only non-gun owner in the area.
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Feb 28, 2014 17:00
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BreakAtmo posted:No no, I'm talking about how at the end of S2 she had broken up with Marco, was at the Gallaghers, saved Ian from Frank (expressing her anger about being abused by Marco), and last we saw her, she was spooning with Lip on the couch, clearly setting things up for next season. I completely forgot about this but from the wiki summary and my vague memory on the subject one of the first things that happens in Season 3 is that her father comes back, kills Marco and wants Jimmy to stay married to her. So presumably off-screen she learns of her father coming back and goes to see him, then (iirc) we next see her on the yacht watching Marco get killed. So presumably with the increased scrutiny of her father's men, she couldn't go back to the Gallaghers. Alternately, she goes back to try to work things out with Marco but shortly after her father arrives. In either case once we see Marco get iced on the boat and he father's guys start babysitting the both of them, she wouldn't have a lot of reasons or opportunities to go back to the Gallaghers. Of course, like I said this is all vague memory so I might be totally off on some details.
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Feb 28, 2014 19:07
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Brennan posted:So glad Lip called Fiona out on her continuing bullshit See, I actually had the opposite reaction, and sided more with Fiona this episode. Lip called her on her bullshit in the last episode and was totally right and then that episode ended with her statement of "I'm guilty", which was perfect. So this episode she is trying to be better and is being poo poo on, and then as a result when she tries to unwind and does something minor (especially in the world of the Gallaghers). I mean, she got drunk with her friend and burned some food: no kids were around at the time, she is not barred from alcohol as part of her parole or anything, there was basically nothing really wrong with what she did. And then Lip takes the kids out of the house to his dorm room where everyone is partying, which is a better atmosphere I guess? I mean, I was the one saying Fiona had sunk to Frank's level with the coke incident, but its obvious she wasn't doing anything especially wrong here, and is trying to be better.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:42
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Yeah but like I said in the world of the Gallaghers "wasting some food" is pretty low on the list of sins. And Lip didn't just get pissed that she wasted food he railed at her for the Liam thing again and then took the kids out of the house as if she was completely unfit.
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Mar 10, 2014 17:51
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Pellisworth posted:Meanwhile, Lip has done the exact opposite and ditched his booze and weed habit (mostly?) to hit the books and work study. He also ditched his kid brother with his roommate's girlfriend so that he could get laid in a laundry room. quote:Edit: Fiona shouldn't get a free pass on getting drunk and burning money (and almost the house down) when she's freshly both unemployed and a felon. I am not saying she should get a free pass, what? I am saying that what Lip did was an overreaction, and I think him bringing back the kids at the end was an admission of this (as well as not arguing on the phone; dude loves to argue). There is a whole load of grey between Lip being completely right and completely wrong, and "he shouldn't have reacted as strongly as he did" is somewhere in there. Getting pissed at her for burning the food, sure. Like, I could point out everything Lip did in this episode that could have potentially endangered Liam and Carl and take it to the most extreme possible outcome, and he would look bad too (example: it's not totally unheard of for college kids to use cocaine, they were certainly all drinking and smoking weed while "watching" Liam and Carl). There was a working fire alarm directly above the oven so it is highly unlikely that the place would've burned down with two adults in the house, I've burned enough food to know this. There's also a world of difference between getting drunk with only adults in the house and getting high on cocaine with a three year old running around, so I don't think you can fairly abstract both to "getting wasted and endangering others".
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Mar 10, 2014 19:25
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teagone posted:It was a quickie before he had class. It's not like Lip hosed the girl the entire time he had his roommate's girlfriend watching Liam. My entire point was that if you take everything to extremes to fit your argument then you can make anyone look like a devil or a saint. The poster I was replying to implied that Fiona burning food meant she "nearly burned down the house", which is preposterous. On the other hand, Fiona took her eye off of Liam for 20 seconds and look what happened, so Lip "periodically" checking on them doesn't make him super responsible either. I don't think you can rationalize both "Fiona burning some food was terrible" and "Lip letting his baby brother hang with drunk and high college kids was fine" unless you are being super disingenuous about at least one of those scenarios. And once again, I never said Lip was wrong, just that he overreacted to the burnt food incident. He may have overreacted because he was feeling stressed about the added pressure, and he is certainly not wrong to be angry about the whole situation, but he did overreact to this incident, and Fiona was right that he is being passive aggressive with her (specifically by taking the kids out of the house as if she is one fuckup away from killing them all). nooneofconsequence posted:I think Debbie's growth is fairly realistic and organic to her character. I just don't like it. I think her character could have gone in far more unique and interesting directions. I think Debbie just needs interactions with some other character to balance out her storyline. Right now she is kind of bouncing around between being a poo poo to Fiona, super naive with her white trash friends, and then creepy with the 20 year old. So her entire story arch has been painful to watch this season. If she was still helping out Sheila or something else to show what a good kid she is, it would probably make her more likable this season.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:41
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I'm pretty sure you didn't read what I said, because I was talking about Fiona burning food and not her leaving cocaine out.
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Mar 11, 2014 16:46
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Conquistador posted:that part of your post Once again, you didn't disagree with "part of my post" you disagreed with a bunch of weird poo poo I have never said. I never disagreed that Fiona leaving cocaine out was bad, I certainly didn't compare that to Lip getting a babysitter for Liam (what?), and if you read closely you will see that I didn't even say that Lip getting a babysitter so that he could get laid was bad (I used it as a rhetorical example about how you can twist things to fit your argument).
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Mar 11, 2014 17:04
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Conquistador posted:Yeah I didn't read good Nah, I am clearly doing a lovely job of making my points because everyone else was making similar arguments. It's just bonkers because 3 weeks ago I was getting in the opposite argument because I said Fiona leaving the coke out was "worse than anything Monica and Frank ever did", and now everyone seems to be arguing that I am letting Fiona off too easy. Happy_Misanthrope posted:Man if I didn't know better I'd say this show intentionally creates frustrating situations and personalities in order to create drama Yeah, no, I get all that. I was just saying that I felt more sympathetic for Fiona in this situation, which seems to be a pretty controversial stance. I do understand both sides though, and I certainly understand what led up to Lip's blow up.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:17
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Man, I am married so I usually get yelled at just for getting shitfaced more than once a week even if nothing irresponsible happens so maybe that is why I am siding with Fiona. Getting yelled at sucks.
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Mar 11, 2014 17:27
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Krowley posted:Liver Ex Machina is kinda lame but I'll let it slide because the episode was great anyway. Haha, maybe they took pity on him for getting his kidney stolen? I agree that part was pretty cheesy and cheap writing, I wish it had resolved more organically. This was a fantastic episode, lots of payoff on season long plots. The Fiona storyline this season has been frustrating but it was all worth it for the scene of her and Lip in the car. That was one of the most touching moments that has been in the show. The beginning of the episode with her bottoming out wasn't even that bad because it just showed how someone in an already bad situation could just continue to get poo poo on until they completely give up. I'm glad the Kev poo poo ended the way it did, I had a bad feeling during the entire episode that the poo poo with Mickey and Kev having a bunch of guns in the house would end horribly, especially with how dark this season has been. I didn't necessarily think V or one of the babies would die but I didn't think everyone would get off scott free. I guess Mickey still might pull some poo poo, but I think he will be busy dealing with Ian's bipolar poo poo coming to a head. This really did feel like it could be a season finale or at least a penultimate episode, I am psyched to see what they do with the last two episodes. It is weird that even though some rough poo poo happened, this episode still felt more upbeat than a lot of the previous ones. It makes me think we have something big coming in the last two episodes.
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Mar 24, 2014 16:02
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Yeah I dunno. I know at a certain point your other organs start to fail but I think at that point you are like hours from death unless you are hooked up to machines, you definitely shouldn't be able to last days/weeks(/months? how long has V been pregnant?) like Frank has. Plus having one less kidney probably doesn't help either. Frank has basically held on way past the point where he should anyway, and I don't think hospitals give healthy organs to people that far gone, especially alcoholic drug addicts, so who even knows? I actually unironically agree that this is probably a feint and something else will happen and Frank will die anyway. Obviously not Fiona shooting him but "his body rejected the liver because he was too far gone and now he really is dead".
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Mar 24, 2014 16:16
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Dr Christmas posted:The worst thing about this episode was Lip just having his cell phone on the table during an exam and that being okay. I honestly thought when the professor looked up that it would be a plot point. Like that is what would cause him to fail and lose his scholarship. Jack Skeleton posted:Well, since they're married now, He'd be on Shelia's medical insurance. So bam there's your resolution to that mystery. That would be a pretty rad hospital if they were savvy to what was going on and had Sheila's info queued up and ready so that the second they got married they could wheel him out of there. I am not discounting what you are saying I am just saying that would genuinely be a cool thing.
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Mar 24, 2014 19:35
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