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Baldbeard posted:It's depressing to think that to a lot of families being a loving and supportive spouse/parent is literally secondary to adhering to the family traditions. I grew up with almost no family, and find it very hard to deal with partner's (who are extremely family oriented) families. I'm like that too. I grew up in a normal household with my own family, but like my parents have absolutely zero say or influence in my life and I couldn't give any shits about whether or not my mother approved of my significant other. Anyway, I'm really curious for the Chinese people posting here or the ones dating Chinese: how do y'all deal with the topic of parental retirement? From what I understand and have been told, it's very common and somewhat expected that the mother/father is going to move in with the son/daughter at some point so that they can be taken care of. I personally can't stand staying at my parents for more than a few days when I'm visiting. I can't imagine having to have my parents/in laws live with me and my spouse. Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 08:38
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My fiancé is of vietnamese descent and I am finnish. Her parents came here in the early 80s and she grew up here in the same place as me so she's pretty westernized and we speak the same language natively (she has two native languages I guess). Her parents are not very controlling at all, her dad went and turned into a buddhist monk some time after he got here and sits around going ohm all day and doesn't eat meat, and she's also pretty buddhist. I am completely un-religious myself and they know that, religion never comes up though. We also have twin sons and we are baptizing them in a week however in the finnish lutheran church, mainly because it's traditional and we want them to be like other kids and experience the same things and perks. That's probably the major reason it happens nowadays, people are very unreligious in general here, but the church is mostly not crazy and people like traditions and continuity. The biggest issue regarding the baptism was that her dad needs special cake without eggs in it. We aren't married, don't have any plans to either, the whole idea strikes us both as useless bit of tradition that just costs money. We live out in the sticks in Finland south of Vaasa and neither she or I can say we've encountered any racism. Most negative comments we both get are because we speak swedish (lingual minority), can't recall anything race related. The small rural community we live in is swedish speaking so it's a minority enclave in finland and maybe the peoples status as minorities themselves make them more accepting of other minorities, at any rate we got it good here.
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Jan 16, 2014 09:55
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Boris Galerkin posted:Anyway, I'm really curious for the Chinese people posting here or the ones dating Chinese: how do y'all deal with the topic of parental retirement? From what I understand and have been told, it's very common and somewhat expected that the mother/father is going to move in with the son/daughter at some point so that they can be taken care of. I personally can't stand staying at my parents for more than a few days when I'm visiting. I can't imagine having to have my parents/in laws live with me and my spouse. My (hopefully) future in-laws live in China while we're planning on living in the US so there's that as a natural barrier (though my girlfriend does want her mom to come over for a few weeks after we get married to stay with us). They're both in their 40s right now though (e: her mom was below the age of marriage when my girlfriend was born and I think her dad wasn't much older) and she has a younger brother who will hopefully stay in China and they can live off of instead. computer parts fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 14:24
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chemosh6969 posted:Is there some sort of conception that racism doesn't exist outside the US or that there exists a country somewhere that is racist free? Now that we live in a rural area and we make up a good percentage of the local brown population, people seem to feel safer making the assumption that we're together.
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Jan 16, 2014 16:50
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Baldbeard posted:It's depressing to think that to a lot of families being a loving and supportive spouse/parent is literally secondary to adhering to the family traditions. I grew up with almost no family, and find it very hard to deal with partner's (who are extremely family oriented) families. While I don't necessarily agree with how it works, I'm completely understanding of that there are different beliefs and cultures and respect that. It's not my place to try and fight with them just because they're different than me, just as it would be as completely annoying if someone else with different beliefs starts trying to shove their stuff down my throat, and telling me I'm wrong. I actually find it somewhat sad* when a culture starts losing it's values because it's getting outside influences. Part of what makes learning about other cultures exciting is discovering new things. It would be completely awful if cultures all started acting similar and the only real difference between places was the architecture and what you read in history books. *Levels may vary according to the actual belief. I do realize that by saying such a thing, I'm the minority here and therefore probably looked at as a troll but I'm not. I'm completely open to people being different and I don't try to force my views on others, as that would be pointless. If people want to change, that's up to them and comes from within themselves.
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Jan 16, 2014 16:51
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Boris Galerkin posted:I'm like that too. I grew up in a normal household with my own family, but like my parents have absolutely zero say or influence in my life and I couldn't give any shits about whether or not my mother approved of my significant other. Well, I would want my parents to like my husband, and he feels the same in reverse. Fortunately for us, our in-laws like us a great deal. Regarding parental retirement, my father is into his 70s and shows few signs of wanting to retire. He talks about it, wondering why he still works, but he has no hobbies and retirement for him will be extremely boring. My mother would have been the same, but she had a very serious health issue and is working on slowing down. And she has a lot of hobbies, so for her, retirement is fine. We grew up with my maternal grandmother living with us, and she still lives with my parents. She drove us to school, picked us up, and taught us math so I'm very used to the idea of a grandmother living with the house. My sister and I have discussed it, and both of us would be more than willing to take our mother in, and our husbands are fine with it too because our mom is pretty awesome. Neither of us are that willing to take in our father, but I would do it and my husband would be okay with that too. Now, my mom has EXPLICITLY told my sister and me that she has no intentions of living with either of us when she gets old. Her exact words were, "I worked hard to make money so that I can afford to live alone when I get old. I'm not living with either of you! You're both so messy!" This has possibly been retracted after the first few grandchildren were born. Anyways, my parents are comfortable being independent. I suspect that if they needed to live near one of us, we'd have adjoining yards, but separate houses. squigadoo fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 17:40
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chemosh6969 posted:While I don't necessarily agree with how it works, I'm completely understanding of that there are different beliefs and cultures and respect that. It's not my place to try and fight with them just because they're different than me, just as it would be as completely annoying if someone else with different beliefs starts trying to shove their stuff down my throat, and telling me I'm wrong. I'm not talking about removing cultural differences though. I mean when it comes to a traditional family judging a potential 'mate' or 'spouse' for one of their family members -- morals, ethics, loyalty, compassion, all those things often take a back seat to 'religious identity' and 'ethnicity'. I've known several people who have been in a serious relationship with Indian-Americans who have a hyper-strict traditional family back in India. In both cases, it got to the point where they were considering marriage, but the gal knew her parents wouldn't approve, and also that she couldn't exist as a human without her parent's approval. Soooooo, that's where they ended. Likewise, I've been around the Christian church scene long enough to hear this conversation a million times: "Yeah so he may have a drinking problem." -"Is he a Christian?" "He's unemployed and lives out of a van" -"Right, right, but does he believe in Jesus?" "Yes, I think I saw a John 3:16 sticker on the back of his van." -"Thank God!" There's just a certain point where your heritage can either add to your livelihood or subtract from it, and so often I see one person's family making things lovely for both people within a couple.
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Jan 16, 2014 18:00
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Baldbeard posted:I'm not talking about removing cultural differences though. I mean when it comes to a traditional family judging a potential 'mate' or 'spouse' for one of their family members -- morals, ethics, loyalty, compassion, all those things often take a back seat to 'religious identity' and 'ethnicity'. I've known several people who have been in a serious relationship with Indian-Americans who have a hyper-strict traditional family back in India. In both cases, it got to the point where they were considering marriage, but the gal knew her parents wouldn't approve, and also that she couldn't exist as a human without her parent's approval. Soooooo, that's where they ended. Oftentimes, the traditions of a family are based within their culture. That's where I was going with it. Once you have family members going off and doing their own things instead, those traditions start eroding away from generation to generation. I don't find the girl weak or anything for having values that include her parent's approval with her relationship. I do think that she should have reconsidered starting a relationship with someone she couldn't stay with long term, unless that was her goal in the first place. Her family and background is apparently important to her. As for the Christian story, if anyone thinks marrying into that family is a good idea and won't result in a bunch of retarded situations the entire time, they deserve to be together.
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Jan 16, 2014 18:56
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The Macaroni posted:...(Yes, even when our kid is with us.) ... drat man, I would have such a hard time not taking the host(ess) aside to say: ''You've helped give my kid a complex.'' It seems likely that very few people would react to your family that way intentionally, so I know it's best to understand if not totally sympathize, but drat Baldbeard posted:I'm not talking about removing cultural differences though. I mean when it comes to a traditional family judging a potential 'mate' or 'spouse' for one of their family members -- morals, ethics, loyalty, compassion, all those things often take a back seat to 'religious identity' and 'ethnicity'. ... Viewing morals, ethics, loyalty and compassion as separable from religious identity and ethnicity is a difference your culture has from theirs, you know what I mean? Our Western, rationalistic way of thinking has its own historical bases and injustices.
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Jan 16, 2014 18:57
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Mortley posted:Viewing morals, ethics, loyalty and compassion as separable from religious identity and ethnicity is a difference your culture has from theirs, you know what I mean? Our Western, rationalistic way of thinking has its own historical bases and injustices. Yeah that's very true.
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Jan 16, 2014 19:05
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chemosh6969 posted:Oftentimes, the traditions of a family are based within their culture. That's where I was going with it. Once you have family members going off and doing their own things instead, those traditions start eroding away from generation to generation. I don't find the girl weak or anything for having values that include her parent's approval with her relationship. I do think that she should have reconsidered starting a relationship with someone she couldn't stay with long term, unless that was her goal in the first place. Her family and background is apparently important to her. I guess this is where you and I differ on viewpoints. I see absolutely no problems with going off on your own and crafting your own traditions, because traditions aren't set in stone you know? I very highly doubt that the traditions of today have been unchanged since America as a country was formed for example. Times change and traditions and values IMO need to change too to keep up with the times. It's also not like this hypothetical person going off on their own is going to completely abandon everything they learned, they're just going to adapt, and that's fine, normal, and should be encouraged. I think parents who disapprove solely on race, religion, status, or basically anything other than: "is my son/daughter happy with this person, and is he a reasonably good person?"… well there's something wrong with them and I don't see how you or anybody can encourage this behavior on the basis of "that's just how things are." Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 16, 2014 |
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Jan 16, 2014 20:06
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Boris Galerkin posted:I guess this is where you and I differ on viewpoints. I see absolutely no problems with going off on your own and crafting your own traditions, because traditions aren't set in stone you know? I don't think we disagree too much, it's just the degree that we do. I'm fine with someone doing it if they want to but if they're getting pressure from the outside, or someone is looking down on them, or look down on them, for holding onto traditions, like the Indian girl, then that's their choice. It may suck from the other person's point of view but like the great orator Popeye has said, "I yam what I yam".
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Jan 16, 2014 20:40
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Boris Galerkin posted:Anyway, I'm really curious for the Chinese people posting here or the ones dating Chinese: how do y'all deal with the topic of parental retirement? From what I understand and have been told, it's very common and somewhat expected that the mother/father is going to move in with the son/daughter at some point so that they can be taken care of. I personally can't stand staying at my parents for more than a few days when I'm visiting. I can't imagine having to have my parents/in laws live with me and my spouse. White dude, dating Chinese girl checking in. It came up before, but it seems like her mom would do the "move in next door" thing if/when grandchildren came around, after she retired. Her mother is a professor in the U.S. already, so she'll probably work until she's 80 anyway, making it a moot point.
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Jan 16, 2014 21:40
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Mortley posted:drat man, I would have such a hard time not taking the host(ess) aside to say: ''You've helped give my kid a complex.'' It seems likely that very few people would react to your family that way intentionally, so I know it's best to understand if not totally sympathize, but drat. Honestly the worst places are in majority black neighborhoods (even rich black suburbs, so it's not a "hood" thing), where I straight up get dirty looks when I'm out with my family. My kid's a little older now, and I had a gentle talk with her about these things. Her response was basically, "Daddy is light brown, mamma is dark brown, and I'm brown like chocolate. Makes perfect sense to anyone who isn't stupid." 
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Jan 16, 2014 22:40
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White as the driven snow, like descended-from-plantation-owners white (this will be important in a minute). I dated an African-American girl in high school and caught holy hell for it. I don't think her parents particularly liked me, and mine raised hell at me until I finally broke it off, claiming that interracial relationships were unbiblical because God told the Israelites not to intermarry with the Midianites or the Gideonites or some fuckin tribe. In retrospect, seeing as how they didn't have a problem with Asians, I think they may just be hell of racist.
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Jan 17, 2014 01:23
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Solomonic posted:White as the driven snow, like descended-from-plantation-owners white (this will be important in a minute). I dated an African-American girl in high school and caught holy hell for it. I don't think her parents particularly liked me, and mine raised hell at me until I finally broke it off, claiming that interracial relationships were unbiblical because God told the Israelites not to intermarry with the Midianites or the Gideonites or some fuckin tribe. Not Mormon, right?
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Jan 17, 2014 01:27
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I'm white-American and my wife is mainland Chinese. We met in grad school (it was labcest). Her parents seem to like me just fine, though they wish that I could speak Chinese better. My family loves her. There haven't been any serious cultural issues between us, but there are a couple minor ones. One of these things is food; I'm fine eating cereal for breakfast and a cold sandwich for lunch while she would prefer hot meals three times a day. Another big thing is parties; she absolutely despises western-style dinner parties where she has to make small-talk with strangers (it has been explained to me that Chinese parties tend not to mix social circles and frequently involve group activities like card games or mahjong). No religious issues as we're both atheists and her parents are nonspiritual while mine are liberal Episcopalians, though it does surprise her friends and family when she tells them that I'm not Christian. I've never experienced any real racism about our relationship, but we do still get asked on a fairly regular basis at restaurants if we want to split the check, even when we wear our rings. As for the marriage stuff, we eloped because of timing and the fact that neither of us wanted to deal with the hassle of a traditional wedding in either culture. Her friends were somewhat astounded/scandalized that we didn't ask for her parents approval before we got married. I didn't pay her parents a bride price, but I don't think they would have accepted it anyway; they have a surprising progressive streak at times. We did, however, have to go to a couple big family dinners when we finally went to China to visit her family. My in-laws are retired and have no interest in living with us, though they do want to come visit when we have a house of our own as my father-in-law is something of an Americaphile. We also may have to save up a nontrivial amount of money in the next few years to help them with a new place in case the Wuhan Municipal Government decides to demolish their apartment building as part of subway expansion plans. They also wanted us to stay with them when we came to visit which didn't happen because their apartment is tiny (30m^2) and I like indoor heat and western toilets.
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Jan 17, 2014 01:53
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chemosh6969 posted:Not Mormon, right? Extremely Southern Baptist.
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Jan 17, 2014 01:53
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Powerlurker posted:(it was labcest) I like this. Did you invent this?
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Jan 17, 2014 03:36
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Solomonic posted:In retrospect, seeing as how they didn't have a problem with Asians, I think they may just be hell of racist. Really? That's what gave it away?
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Jan 17, 2014 10:00
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The Macaroni posted:.. ''Makes perfect sense to anyone who isn't stupid." gently caress yeah then, good on her.
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Jan 17, 2014 12:20
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Solomonic posted:In retrospect, seeing as how they didn't have a problem with Asians, I think they may just be hell of racist. This makes you sound super-dumb, btw.
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Jan 17, 2014 13:18
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I'm mixed white/black British, my wife's a white New Zealander. Obviously that means we have very similar cultural backgrounds so race has never really been an issue in any aspect of our relationship other than me occasionally teasing her for having to smear horrible white goop all over herself in order to prevent her skin from blistering in the sun.
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Jan 17, 2014 14:25
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LemonDrizzle posted:other than me occasionally teasing her for having to smear horrible white goop all over herself in order to prevent her skin from blistering in the sun. Haha, I do this too. I'll be like "lol, your skin doesn't work, whitey" and show off my insta-tan.
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Jan 17, 2014 14:29
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I'm a white guy in Texas who dates black women. I've never really had any issues, but I'm in Houston so we're actually pretty drat progressive here. The one time race really got brought up was some random hispanic gentlemen walked up to our table in a restaurant, and told us that seeing a black girl and a white guy together made him really happy, and that it was awesome to see that people from completely different races could get along even with all the poo poo going on these days (this right when the Trayvon/Zimmerman verdict hit). My parents were really accepting of her, and her mom seemed to love me. Unfortunately we broke up. For non race-related reasons.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:18
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I may have missed it since most people just seem to be saying "Asian" but has nobody married anyone from Japan and then run across a US vet that was over in Asia during WWII? Especially those that fought at Okinawa? I haven't had anything rude ever said to me but there was some "why". I've also run across a small number of people that see brownish skin and instantly assume Mexican, sometimes starting conversations in Spanish. I took some Spanish, so I can answer back which makes it a little more amusing.
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Jan 17, 2014 16:45
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chemosh6969 posted:I may have missed it since most people just seem to be saying "Asian" but has nobody married anyone from Japan and then run across a US vet that was over in Asia during WWII? Especially those that fought at Okinawa? I haven't had anything rude ever said to me but there was some "why". If someone was 20 during that battle they'd be almost 90 today, they're probably mostly dead by now. I think just in general it's a lot less likely to find a Japanese partner though since it's a much smaller (and older) country compared to China or India. computer parts fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jan 17, 2014 |
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Jan 17, 2014 17:07
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I'm the product of an interracial marriage, so any relationships I've been in have been 'interracial' because there aren't very many Chinese-Mauritian/Scots where I live. I'm completely culturally Scottish/white, though, so I've never really experienced cultural differences in relationships. Incidentally, my mother's sister married a guy from Sierre Leone, so I have a pretty diverse family.
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Jan 17, 2014 17:56
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computer parts posted:If someone was 20 during that battle they'd be almost 90 today, they're probably mostly dead by now. It's more that there has been very little Japanese immigration to the US in the second half of the 20th century (actually very little Japanese emigration at all in the post-war era). Most Japanese-Americans in the US are at least 3rd or 4th generation, and a lot of the Japanese nationals that find themselves in the states nowadays are businessmen on temporary assignments that already have families.
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Jan 17, 2014 18:03
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Powerlurker posted:It's more that there has been very little Japanese immigration to the US in the second half of the 20th century (actually very little Japanese emigration at all in the post-war era). Most Japanese-Americans in the US are at least 3rd or 4th generation, and a lot of the Japanese nationals that find themselves in the states nowadays are businessmen on temporary assignments that already have families. That makes sense, I guess I was just extrapolating from personal experience because I've only known one Japanese person (and a half Japanese-half Vietnamese guy) but I have known scores of Chinese and Korean people.
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Jan 17, 2014 22:05
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computer parts posted:That makes sense, I guess I was just extrapolating from personal experience because I've only known one Japanese person (and a half Japanese-half Vietnamese guy) but I have known scores of Chinese and Korean people. There's some decent amounts of first gen Japanese numbers these days. Even in the rural area I'm in, once you meet up with one, you'll be linked to more and more of them.
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Jan 17, 2014 23:21
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Native Swede here, very typical pale, pasty reddish brown-blond. Spent 6 months in Turkey, where I dated two girls. The first one was a French-Algerian muslim girl. She was very surprised that she ended up with a big, liberal and tattooed guy who drank a lot of alcohol. It didn't last long cause of cultural stuff. She did not like kissing in public. (By public I mean among our friends, at parties and bars) she was also not interested in having sex. The other was a Turkish girl, very sweet, intelligent and (even by European standards) liberal, we got along great since I'm very secular-socially liberal. Back in Sweden I dated a North African girl for a couple of months. Didn't last long, partly because of her family. She was not allowed to even meet guys, let alone spend the night. She has 4 brothers and a very strict father. When I went to meet her by the train station, we had to walk like 5 meters apart, as her brothers knew a lot of people that would tell them if they saw her with a guy, and she would be in big trouble. Really hypocritical family as her brothers had swedish girlfriends that would stay over at their house. gently caress sexism. My parent's didn't meet any of them, but they are kinda typical of Swedish people in their 60's. They don't mind foreigners, but would prefer if I ended up with a Swedish, or atleast, a white girl. In Turkey, it was a status thing, to have a white/European guy/girl. So we got some looks by older guys and jealous girls:) Young people in general don't care about interracial stuff here in Sweden. Perhaps because I live in a very immigrant heavy part of Stockholm. The exception to this is a very hypocritical and ugly view of some (almost exclusively immigrant/non-native, sorry to say) guys, who have a very bad attitude regarding women. Swedish women are for "fun" and immigrant women are to be despised if they are with a Swedish guy, so once again, gently caress sexism. I hope I don't come across as racist, all guys (and girls) can be assholes, but in my experience the hypocrisy and "old school sexism" is more widespread among non-native guys. I know of several really lovely things done by guys, against women, guys who are otherwise really nice.
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Jan 18, 2014 01:36
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I'm boring white Canadian and my wife is Trini. Her culture is eating great tasting food, dancing, and copious amounts of drinking. We mesh well. Also she's absolutely gorgeous. Paccione fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 18, 2014 03:34
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chemosh6969 posted:There's some decent amounts of first gen Japanese numbers these days. Even in the rural area I'm in, once you meet up with one, you'll be linked to more and more of them. At a very large public university in my town, there are plenty of Chinese, Taiwanese, and Korean international students, but only a handful (somewhere between 10-20 at any given time) Japanese nationals in attendance at any given time.
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Jan 19, 2014 01:14
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Powerlurker posted:At a very large public university in my town, there are plenty of Chinese, Taiwanese, and Korean international students, but only a handful (somewhere between 10-20 at any given time) Japanese nationals in attendance at any given time. For Chinese and Koreans, America is a huge step up. For Japanese, it's the same reason you don't see a lot of Canadians: they have almost the same quality institutions in their home country, so unless there's a huge reason they're not going to come to the States in droves. Plus Japan's attitude towards the English language.
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Jan 19, 2014 03:04
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nagel posted:
Not sure if this does come across as bad, but I think although white euro/Anglo people have a lot to work towards in terms of racism, sexism, violence and equality... We are ever so slightly ahead in terms of sexism. Sure plenty of white countries have rape apologists and slut shaming etc, but I can never understand the sheer audacity of how hypocritical some Mediterranean, Arab or Chinese cultured friends families can be towards the women. It's sad.
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Jan 19, 2014 12:43
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Not really. I've met plenty of white guys who think that a white girl who dates a black guy is disgusting and promiscuous. Or white parents who are less than thrilled about their darling baby daughter getting it on with a brother. Hell, I know a lot of Asian women too on dating sites who complain about how white guys approach them on the site, acting like the great white savior they've been waiting for their whole lives. They're usually the kinds of guys who pat themselves on the back for being so progressive and not sexist, especially compared to those mean sexist, "traditional" Asian guys. Vaginapocalypse fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jan 19, 2014 |
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Jan 19, 2014 22:32
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B-but it's so hard being white! Waaaaaagh!
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Imperialist Dog posted:...Japan's attitude towards the English language. Just out of curiousity, what is that attitude? Also, I'm curious if anyone knows any white (or other non-Asian) girls who have dated Chinese men (from China). I have a Chinese friend who mentioned that he had stopped seeing a girl because he found out that her dad had died young of cancer, and he was afraid that it could be hereditary and his kids could get it. This was after a few dates. I tend to assume that this is more just this particular guy's attitude, and most Chinese would find this as absurd as I do.
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Jan 20, 2014 04:16
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I dated a Chinese woman for a while. Her parents were cool and maybe a bit too in to their daughter dating an American, but her grandfather, the patriarch of the whole family, was super angry about the whole situation. When we first actually met, after months of hearing how livid he was about my existence, we talked a bit and he asked me if my dad/grandfather/etc had been in the military (He was a literal teenage guerrilla fighter in northern China during WW2 if certain stories were to be believed, and a lifelong military-dude after that). I mentioned both my grandfathers had served in World War II, one in the Army in Europe, and one in the Navy in the Pacific. This piqued his interest and he asked if my grandfather in the Navy had killed any Japanese people during the war. I said "I dunno, probably?" And after that he liked me. Racism is a powerful thing. New Coke posted:Also, I'm curious if anyone knows any white (or other non-Asian) girls who have dated Chinese men (from China). Almost all the non-Asian women in my grad program had a huge thing for Asian guys and most ended up with Chinese boyfriends before we were done a year over here. Might have been a reason they were doing a grad degree in China, though. Ailumao fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Jan 20, 2014 |
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Jan 20, 2014 06:18
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New Coke posted:Just out of curiousity, what is that attitude? One of my cousins dated a Taiwanese-American man for a while. From what I can gather, his mother was a big factor in their later breakup.
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Jan 20, 2014 18:22
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