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Bleh Maestro
Aug 30, 2003


I miss the darfur war orphans rule. But I'll do it anyway. My problems are nothing compared to a darfur war orphan, but...

We have a co-worker at my office, which is a small fish bowl of an office. We are a phone-sales company for a biotech giant. We have a single room office where we all make calls, no cubicles, just open. About 6 months ago we hired 2 new guys and one of them is working out great and fitting in nicely. The other one, however...

This kid was mildly annoying since day one, to all of us, but now it's reaching a critical mass supernova of how much literally our WHOLE office completely hates/resents him. The mildly annoying stuff, yeah whatever he's just a weird guy, we could get over that stuff. He constantly taps at his desk and that's annoying to those around him. He talks like he is role-playing in an MMORPG a lot. He can't spit out a question without being a freak and saying a bunch of other weird poo poo. etc. etc.

However, he also has done some major things which are HUGE no-no's in our office, and he just seems to slip out of whatever it is, no matter what. It began with a couple of hour+ coming in late days without a call. He almost completely no-called no-showed one day. He's also just generally late 5-15 minutes pretty much every day.

We do some travel about once per quarter since we are each responsible for a territory of states. Well, he was supposed to go on a training trip so that he could learn how to do it on his own. He missed it due to a mild fever. Nobody in this office has ever missed a trip, ever. Until him. But, he was sick so it was shrugged off.

Then, even though he is not properly trained for it, they booked him a solo trip to Florida/Georgia, because we really need the help with it. He was supposed to take some weight off of the rest of us. So they book the trip and he is really weird about when it is etc. etc. As soon as they book the trip he takes the info and runs out of the room to make a phone call. We didn't think anything of it. Well, we come to finally find out later (luckily before this trip happened), that he has an ignition interlocker in his car due to a DUI, and he wouldn't be able to have a car rented out to him if he were to take this trip. Instead of telling us any of this beforehand, even though the ability to travel was CLEARLY laid out during the interview process, he decides to try and deceive us.

We also found out that his plan was to have his FATHER, buy a plane ticket with his own money, and rent a car and DRIVE HIM AROUND ON HIS BUSINESS TRIP. Under the guise that "his dad was going to florida to visit an old friend anyway." Complete bullshit. Well, the cat came out of the bag, and they cancelled his trip (he actually argued against this). So now, he can't contribute to the travelling that we have to do once per quarter. Not to mention he lied and tried to cover it all up. This happened before our Xmas/New Years break, and we were pretty much all certain that he would be gone after we got back from break.

Well, here we are and he is still here. He apologized to our boss finally yesterday, and was apparently forgiven.

And then, in comes TODAY. Well, he volunteered to open up our office today at 6am. He was late, and arrived at or after 6:50am. The last person that was late to open the office was suspended immediately. He's still here. He was also told today by our manager to apologize to the rest of us for all of his lies. He didn't do it. He probably won't get in any trouble for that either.

What I'm asking, is if any of you have ever been in a situation where your entire workplace vehemently resented/hated a co-worker, but could do nothing about it. It looks as if he's here to stay, and I and the others really want to move on, but every day seems to be something new and by the end of the day we are all seriously just LIVID with this person. I don't want to feel so much hate for someone, but I and everyone else also feel like it's practically making a mockery of our jobs. We all work very hard to be punctual, produce sales numbers (something he also doesn't do), be professional in the office and on our trips, and honestly we would just never even dream of doing anything like this poo poo that has happened. We are bewildered.

I don't know, I know everyone deserves a second chance, but our office is just toxic right now. We aren't working half as well as we used to be. I just need to hear something from an outside party I guess.

edit: I should not that we are a really dysfunctional business. We have an owner who is in charge but he is very distant and disconnected. We have very informal managers who apparently don't have any real power. And, we don't have a traditional HR or anything like that.

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HelloIAmYourHeart
Dec 29, 2008

Send us signals in the glow
of night windows


http://www.askamanager.org/2012/07/...er-at-work.html

quote:

Yes, this is frustrating. But youíve gotten way out of control with your focus on it.

Stop tracking her time. Stop thinking about her entirely, in fact. The sole question thatís relevant to you here is: How does this impact your work?

It sounds like it doesnít affect your work at all, since you have an entirely different slate of customers than she does. Itís just annoying you, and you can decide whether to let it or not. I recommend not letting it, since that is a recipe for being unhappy at work Ö and itís the kind of thing where, if you let it annoy you enough and for long enough, you will soon find yourself boiling over with rage (see your statement, ďI really canít continue working like thisĒ). Over something that doesnít actually affect you.

So how does it impact your work?

Devils Affricate
Jan 22, 2010


He sounds like a lovely worker, but you sound like you care way more than you really should. How do his actions affect you directly? Do you all get paid less if he produces lower sales numbers? On the days he comes in an hour late, are things way more hectic than they would have been if he were in the office?

You're pissed off at him because you hold yourself to a high standard of work and he doesn't. Apparently your boss doesn't give a poo poo either way, so why do you care so much about slaving away for this job?

Edit: your thread title really drives it home. Who gives a gently caress if he's "making a mockery" of your job? You're not doing some sort of noble public service. You're there to make money to pay rent and buy anime figurines and he's not really getting in the way of that.

Devils Affricate fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2014 around 01:34

Bleh Maestro
Aug 30, 2003



It impacts my work, and moreso my coworker who shares teriritory 1) because as I already said part of the job is being able to travel to several locations across the country and in canada and he is unable to contribute with this and we need that help badly. The trips are a huge burden.

2) Something I didnt even mention yet but hes also terrible on the phone and has to call customers in our territories. He occasionally calls sensitive accounts that are already being taken care of and hurts customer relations. He also makes us look bad anytime he calls a new customer and sounds incompetent. It's a technical science sales job. Customers have commented on his lack of knowledge.

3) I have been trying every day to go in and not worry about him but lately by the end of the day he has gotten under all of our skin and basically the entire office is focused on that and talkin or messaging each other about it. I want to just sit down and do my work believe me but this is a big problem.

It's definitely not all his fault. Our office is very disorganized and dysfunctional. This is our shortcoming and we really have a lot of work to do in this area. We have been waiting to get cubicles for a while now and imo we really need this. I think i will push for this.

Bleh Maestro fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2014 around 01:46

Lolie
Jun 4, 2010


quote:

We aren't working half as well as we used to be.

At some point, somebody up the food chain will likely notice this and ask why. I'd suggest that you keep the emo crap out of it and restrict your answer to factual stuff.

Generally speaking, your employer isn't obliged to treat all employees equally or even fairly (they just can't treat you badly or discriminate against you solely because you belong to a protected class) and can play favourites all they like. It might be galling for the rest of you, but you need to understand that reality.

HelloIAmYourHeart
Dec 29, 2008

Send us signals in the glow
of night windows


Sounds like what your job really needs is some effective managers.

Devils Affricate
Jan 22, 2010


Do you think he's going to singlehandedly tank the company? If you're not responsible for him, take a deep breath and let his bad work bite the rear end of whoever is.

xov
Nov 14, 2005

DNA Ts. Rednum or F. Raf


Annoying guy sounds like he's some manager's nephew or something. Nepotism is the only thing I've seen fuel the continued employment of someone who seems to gently caress up so much.

But yeah, just stand back and let him sink his own ship.

Glasgow Kiss
Dec 12, 2007

She was my dream, my muse. A vision suitable for the wide-screen format. I can still taste her fist against my face. The sweet sugary sweat from a lifetime of diabetes. A heartbeat you could hear from six blocks away. One big pump every hour.

Just have a shower beer and stop letting this kid rule your thoughts. If the company ain't going to tank from his antics, just sit back and watch the show, it's their problem. If you feel it may, start prepping a resume and try to secure new employment if you can (yes, it's tough as poo poo). Your upper management sounds useless, and like you said, that is nothing you can do. Look out for you.

Suntory BOSS
Apr 17, 2006



I've never personally experienced this, but until recently, my friend worked with a very similar person. Worse, she made more money than him. She managed to avoid termination for over a decade (despite laughably poor work performance), ultimately surviving until a wave of downsizing last year. Her position was cut, but she left with a very sizable severance package.

It sucks, it's unfair, and it's probably very difficult to bust your rear end when somebody else is getting by with the bare minimum, but for your own sanity and peace of mind, just focus on your own performance. A decade from now, you'll be reaping the benefits of your hard work (even if it's only an intangible psychological benefit like self-respect), while the other person will go through life with everybody thinking the absolute worse of them. In this situation and most others in life, just focus on yourself and don't worry about how easy somebody else has it unless they directly infringe upon your own success.

Taima
Dec 31, 2006


Suntory BOSS posted:

It sucks, it's unfair, and it's probably very difficult to bust your rear end when somebody else is getting by with the bare minimum, but for your own sanity and peace of mind, just focus on your own performance. A decade from now, you'll be reaping the benefits of your hard work (even if it's only an intangible psychological benefit like self-respect), while the other person will go through life with everybody thinking the absolute worse of them.

I don't think it works like this at all. It's more like, the slacker does the bare minimum, leaves their work at work because they don't care, and continue to live their lives with tons of added free time gained from not caring about their job.

Life isn't that fair.

Super Aggro Crag
Apr 23, 2008

In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti, etc etc...


You guys should tape him to his chair and beat the poo poo out of him with socks stuffed with bars of soap.

Bippie Mishap
Oct 12, 2012


Bleh Maestro posted:

He was also told today by our manager to apologize to the rest of us for all of his lies. He didn't do it. He probably won't get in any trouble for that either.

We all work very hard to be punctual, produce sales numbers (something he also doesn't do), be professional in the office and on our trips, and honestly we would just never even dream of doing anything like this poo poo that has happened. We are bewildered.

Do you work in a Chinese prison labor camp? What do you care about what he does? The same people who hired him also hired you.

Ocean Book
Sep 27, 2010

- hi

Bleh Maestro posted:


3) I have been trying every day to go in and not worry about him but lately by the end of the day he has gotten under all of our skin and basically the entire office is focused on that and talkin or messaging each other about it. I want to just sit down and do my work believe me but this is a big problem.

Sounds like your going to have to try try again. Do you have any actions or strategies you engage in order to not become emotionally entangled in this persons work performance? Just going in and telling yourself 'today this thing that bothers me will not bother me' isn't an actual way to stop being bothered.

m1chelin man
Jan 6, 2014

by angerbeet


I wouldn't worry about it. comes off as the type who would resign in a year and a half to two years.

Geoj
May 28, 2008

BITTER POOR PERSON


Bippie Mishap posted:

What do you care about what he does?

If he is unable to perform basic duties because of a criminal background that he failed to disclose and everyone else has to pick up the slack because of it I think the OP has a valid concern.

Unfortunately people like this are a fact of life and you're going to run into them in pretty much every line of work. I worked at a lumbermill right out of high school and they had an employee who was a career alcoholic, who would show up literally drunk to work at noon still in his bar hopping clothes from the night before, and management would make excuses for him. More recently, a coworker of mine at a third party service company got in a fistfight with a walgreens employee over the outcome of the 2008 superbowl and was thrown out of the store without completing his service call. He wasn't disciplined.

Basically, you either have to put up with them and hope they eventually are given enough rope to hang themselves, or else (as was the case at my last job, where such people were common) find a new job with a company that has managers who know what the gently caress.

Geoj fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2014 around 04:58

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011


Super Aggro Crag posted:

You guys should tape him to his chair and beat the poo poo out of him with socks stuffed with bars of soap.

Read it in the voice of archer.


It's not only the correct solution, it's what archer would do

Buff Baby
Jan 7, 2008

As a human being, I'm embarrassed.


Hey op, you might have accidentally wandered into the set of The Office. Have you double checked this?

Shasta Orange Soda
Apr 24, 2007


Bleh Maestro posted:

He almost completely no-called no-showed one day.

How do you almost completely not call somebody?

Combed Thunderclap
Jan 4, 2011


I find your thread title to be telling. "Making a mockery of our job." It sounds like your job is pretty time-intensive and stressful, and you're taking this slacker's presence in your office as a personal insult to everyone in the entire office.

Everyone else in the thread has kind of already told you to just, you know, stop doing this, and I concur, but it sounds like you're a little too wrapped up in your job, and that it's having a negative impact on you. Were things totally awesome before this guy arrived, or is his intransigence just highlighting aspects of your job you don't like that you've been putting up with? Because it sounds like this "really dysfunctional business" you've been describing is the real problem, and the little poo poo (and everyone taking his stupidity personally) is just a symptom of a larger problem.

Just some idle speculation, of course, but it's worth thinking about. Maybe find a less stressful job, or something outside your job that takes some stress off?

Jedi Knight Luigi
Jul 13, 2009

You think this post is FUNNY?!


Motherfucker posted:

Read it in the voice of archer.


It's not only the correct solution, it's what archer would do

It's a reference to Full Metal Jacket, young buck.

close to toast
Dec 12, 2006



Bleh Maestro posted:

2) Something I didnt even mention yet but hes also terrible on the phone and has to call customers in our territories. He occasionally calls sensitive accounts that are already being taken care of and hurts customer relations. He also makes us look bad anytime he calls a new customer and sounds incompetent. It's a technical science sales job. Customers have commented on his lack of knowledge.

What the hell is 'technical science sales'?

Frankly, you sound like a huge baby who is trying really hard to prove your importance. Not saying this guy isn't a jerk, but be honest with yourself, you need him. He makes you feel better about you. Are you often comparing yourself to others?

AssassinPrincess
Jun 7, 2010

Next stop, the Canadian border.

Your entire office grinds to a halt on a daily basis in order to pass notes and emails about how much you hate that one loving guy?

You people need to do your jobs and stop being bitter that this guy gets away with poo poo and you don't. Quit the chicken-clucking-noises gossip around the office and just do your drat work. Eventually he will be fired, or he'll learn to shape up, either way you win.

JerksNeedLoveToo
Nov 12, 2006


Life isn't fair and sometimes you have to deal with jackass co-workers and bosses who don't give a poo poo about equal treatment.

But...

If you really want to grab the bosses' attention regarding a perpetual gently caress-up, there is only one way to do it. See, the higher-ups don't give a poo poo about how annoying that guy is to you. What they will care about is how much money that guy is costing them. The tricky part is that you cannot couch this in theoretical terms. Saying "Oh, we weren't open at 6:00, we were open at 6:30, it could have cost us business!" is a total waste of your time and your boss's time. What you have to do is to go to them with solid proof that this dude has wasted money, and ideally an exact dollar amount.

That means whenever you talk to a pissed-off customer who he didn't get back to, you figure out how much that account was worth and write it down. Write down all the hosed-up little events that come across your path. And when the total dollar amount he's wasted surpasses what you think his salary is, dump all that poo poo into your boss's lap. People suddenly care when they can see a black-and-white money total.

What you should not do is go poking around for information or worse, try and set the guy up in some way. Pooling info with your other pissed-off co-workers is one thing, but actively creating problems will absolutely get you shitcanned. Remember, document everything. That includes how you came across the information. So when your boss wants to know how you know he lost the Jacobs account, it's because you had to deal with Dr. Jacobs yelling at your rear end for 45 minutes on 3/14/2014, and here's the follow up email you sent Jacobs, too.

There's no promise that he will be fired. But at least you can think to yourself "I told you so" when the dude fucks up monumentally after you'd documented and warned your superiors.

JerksNeedLoveToo fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2014 around 11:23

Namarrgon
Dec 23, 2008

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

close to toast posted:

What the hell is 'technical science sales'?

Probably selling (and managing relationships) high-tech equipment to universitier and private labs. If your lab only boasts a $20k microscope it is probably not a very good lab, that poo poo gets crazy expensive.

Sir_Substance
Dec 13, 2013

Knowledge is the new power, but will never provide a stable baseload as cost effective as burning puppies.


Devils Affricate posted:

Do you think he's going to singlehandedly tank the company? If you're not responsible for him, take a deep breath and let his bad work bite the rear end of whoever is.

I know everyone else in the thread is saying the same as you, but I couldn't agree less.

There are few things worse for a persons mental health then working with a total stinkyhole who just doesn't get office etiquette.

I would consider writing a group letter to the boss saying "we all think this person needs to go".

There's a good argument for it as well. This guy is clearly a disruptor. Employees come in three flavors: re-enforcers, disruptor and neutrals.

Re-enforcers improve everyones performance by their presence, neutrals do nothing either way.

Disruptors deteriorate everyones performance by their presence. Drumming on tables is a great example of this. It seems like an irrelevant thing, but if someone is trying to concentrate and you're drumming away, then they're going to get less work done. Saying "take a deep breath and let his bad work bite the rear end of whoever is responsible" isn't going to change that fact, no matter how good it might sound.

This guy is doing more damage by actually coming in to work then he would be if he didn't show up ever. He should be ejected.

jabby
Oct 27, 2010


1. Tell your manager that you need more help with the trips if it bothers you that much. This new employee may not be helping, but he isn't actively making that part of your job worse.

2. Tell the guy to stop drumming on his desk because its annoying you. Repeat as necessary. Stop sending snide emails and messages about it behind his back and tell him to stop.

3. Chill the gently caress out about everything else. This guy is doing less work than you and getting paid the same. The question isn't why he is doing that, it's why are you working so much harder than you have to? If it's for personal pride then the fact that you don't get recognition shouldn't matter. If its for recognition/money then you should realise that it isn't working and start slacking off more.

Jeffrey
Dec 22, 2005
mildly retarded



Do you have equity in the company such that lost money means anything to you? The travelling sucks but you should see this as a good thing - you are now free to sleep in another hour since no one gives a gently caress. Maybe you can even get out of those trips by calling in sick. Just ride the ship down and don't be so wrapped up in your job.

Maybe you should look for another job that will pay you better in exchange for more responsibility - it doesn't sound like you are in any sort of supervisory role here which maybe you'd like to be? It sounds like you want to work somewhere where you make a difference and see that the company succeeds, which is laudable to a degree but ultimately pointless unless you own equity in the company or it's in danger of going under. Somewhere else may provide the former if you can sell yourself.

Please give us examples of weird poo poo he says, at least if any of it is entertaining.

Jeffrey fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2014 around 15:50

Namarrgon
Dec 23, 2008

Congratulations on not getting fit in 2011!

If you are not payed a manager's wage don't act like a manager.

Bleh Maestro
Aug 30, 2003


Well,

This morning the story developed. Since he an hour late OPENING THE BUSINESS yesterday, the day after he was given his reprieve directly from our boss, he was made to stand in front of us and apologize that and all the rest of his lies. It was absolutely ridiculous, like watching a child getting punished. He stood there pouting, and they asked him WHY he was getting in poo poo, and he barely even knew why.

A pointless exercise, and now his punishment is 1 week of 10-hour days. Ouch, that's harsh!

Devils Affricate
Jan 22, 2010


Sir_Substance posted:

I know everyone else in the thread is saying the same as you, but I couldn't agree less.

There are few things worse for a persons mental health then working with a total stinkyhole who just doesn't get office etiquette.

I would consider writing a group letter to the boss saying "we all think this person needs to go".

There's a good argument for it as well. This guy is clearly a disruptor. Employees come in three flavors: re-enforcers, disruptor and neutrals.

Re-enforcers improve everyones performance by their presence, neutrals do nothing either way.

Disruptors deteriorate everyones performance by their presence. Drumming on tables is a great example of this. It seems like an irrelevant thing, but if someone is trying to concentrate and you're drumming away, then they're going to get less work done. Saying "take a deep breath and let his bad work bite the rear end of whoever is responsible" isn't going to change that fact, no matter how good it might sound.

This guy is doing more damage by actually coming in to work then he would be if he didn't show up ever. He should be ejected.

Most of the OP's complaints are about this guy's work performance, not his annoying quirks. Drumming on the desk is annoying but it's not grounds for termination (unless it's really extreme, or management asks him to stop and he defiantly continues).

OP, have you or your coworkers actually asked him to stop drumming on the desk?

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.

Do you get commissions on sales? I could see him being a real problem if he's negatively impacting your relationships with your customers.

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

i'm so sorry but i have to go now. my time here is finally ogre.


Devils Affricate posted:

Most of the OP's complaints are about this guy's work performance, not his annoying quirks. Drumming on the desk is annoying but it's not grounds for termination (unless it's really extreme, or management asks him to stop and he defiantly continues).

OP, have you or your coworkers actually asked him to stop drumming on the desk?

More importantly, what kind of cymbal system does he have?

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006


Bleh Maestro posted:

Well,

This morning the story developed. Since he an hour late OPENING THE BUSINESS yesterday, the day after he was given his reprieve directly from our boss, he was made to stand in front of us and apologize that and all the rest of his lies. It was absolutely ridiculous, like watching a child getting punished. He stood there pouting, and they asked him WHY he was getting in poo poo, and he barely even knew why.

A pointless exercise, and now his punishment is 1 week of 10-hour days. Ouch, that's harsh!

Did they make him wear a sign around his neck as well?

More seriously, this must be frustrating as all gently caress. Sounds like you have some great stories for the corporate thread.

Dangit Ronpaul
May 12, 2009


Bleh Maestro posted:

Well,

This morning the story developed. Since he an hour late OPENING THE BUSINESS yesterday, the day after he was given his reprieve directly from our boss, he was made to stand in front of us and apologize that and all the rest of his lies. It was absolutely ridiculous, like watching a child getting punished. He stood there pouting, and they asked him WHY he was getting in poo poo, and he barely even knew why.

A pointless exercise, and now his punishment is 1 week of 10-hour days. Ouch, that's harsh!

Sounds like the problem goes a bit deeper than just this guy. Who the gently caress runs a business like this? This is, like, middle school poo poo.

serious norman
Dec 13, 2007


Kick his rear end op.

Fatkraken
Jun 23, 2005

Fun-time is over.

Do you think he'll actually turn up on time for these 10 hour days? Sounds like management, while ineffectual, at least acknowledges there are issues, and if he's that much of a screw up he'd going to gently caress up compliance with the punishment too, which will make the ice he's on even thinner

Fruits of the sea
Dec 1, 2010


Bleh Maestro posted:

A pointless exercise, and now his punishment is 1 week of 10-hour days. Ouch, that's harsh!

Only if he shows up and works the whole time. What are your managers going to do, give him more hours?

Is his wage hourly? If so, will he be paid overtime, and is it even legal to work 10 hour days without a bunch of extra breaks?

Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at Jan 10, 2014 around 19:08

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

i'm so sorry but i have to go now. my time here is finally ogre.


Fruits of the sea posted:

Only if he shows up and works the whole time. What are your managers going to do, give him more hours?

Is his wage hourly? If so, will he be paid overtime, and is it even legal to work 10 hour days without a bunch of extra breaks?

This is America, not Soviet Russia. You can work 24 hours without a break, or over time. Capitalism bitch.

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redreader
Nov 2, 2009

I am the coolest person ever with my pirate chalice. Seriously.


Was it my imagination or did you mention other people having been fired before? Can you find out subtly if he's related to some rich guy, or a client, or the owner?

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