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Super-NintendoUser
Jan 16, 2004

COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES
Soiled Meat

nexus6 posted:

How do I get enough? I've bought every health potion I've seen at a shop, farmed every fly I see by luring it into a large room and unequipping my main weapon and punching them, but still the most I ever had at one time was 7. I had to use loads in the dwarf city because everything does so much damage there.

After level 12 flies stop giving potions of healing and after 17 the vampire bats in the mines stop as well.

I don't know if there's a way to farm them in the Dwarven City, but there may be.

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butt dickus
Jul 7, 2007

top ten juiced up coaches
and the top ten juiced up players

Jerk McJerkface posted:

After level 12 flies stop giving potions of healing and after 17 the vampire bats in the mines stop as well.

I don't know if there's a way to farm them in the Dwarven City, but there may be.
Warlocks can drop potions, including health and experience.

Super-NintendoUser
Jan 16, 2004

COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES
Soiled Meat

Doctor rear end in a top hat posted:

Warlocks can drop potions, including health and experience.

Wow, it's actually a decent drop rate:

Potion Probability
Potion of Healing 45/151 29.8 %
Potion of Experience 4/151 2.65 %
Potion of Toxic Gas 15/151 9.93 %
Potion of Paralytic Gas 10/151 6.62 %
Potion of Liquid Flame 15/151 9.93 %
Potion of Levitation 10/151 6.62 %
Potion of Strength 0/151 0 %
Potion of Mind Vision 20/151 13.25 %
Potion of Purification 12/151 7.95 %
Potion of Invisibility 10/151 6.62 %
Potion of Might 0/151 0 %
Potion of Frost 10/151 6.62 %

One in three chance of getting a healing potion. Not too bad. I typically farm about 30 from the flies before I leave the area so I've never had to worry. There was a change in the way generation of new flies effects potion spawning, so each successive generation of flies spawned has a lower rate of dropping a potion. The math still works out where if you kill more flies there's a higher total chance of getting more potions even if the individual chance of getting one potion is lower:

killing 1 generation-1 Swarm: 1/5 = 0.2 potions,
killing 2 generation-2 Swarms: 2/10 = 0.2 potions,
killing 4 generation-3 Swarms: 4/15 ≈ 0.2667 potions,
killing 8 generation-4 Swarms: 8/20 = 0.4 potions,
killing 16 generation-5 Swarms: 16/25 = 0.64 potions,

I don't know if his math is right, since in gen 2, it's 1/10 for each kill, not 1/10+1/10=2/10 for two kills, but he seems pretty convinced he's right.

nexus6
Sep 2, 2011

If only you could see what I've seen with your eyes

Jerk McJerkface posted:

Wow, it's actually a decent drop rate:

Potion Probability
Potion of Healing 45/151 29.8 %
Potion of Experience 4/151 2.65 %
Potion of Toxic Gas 15/151 9.93 %
Potion of Paralytic Gas 10/151 6.62 %
Potion of Liquid Flame 15/151 9.93 %
Potion of Levitation 10/151 6.62 %
Potion of Strength 0/151 0 %
Potion of Mind Vision 20/151 13.25 %
Potion of Purification 12/151 7.95 %
Potion of Invisibility 10/151 6.62 %
Potion of Might 0/151 0 %
Potion of Frost 10/151 6.62 %

One in three chance of getting a healing potion. Not too bad. I typically farm about 30 from the flies before I leave the area so I've never had to worry. There was a change in the way generation of new flies effects potion spawning, so each successive generation of flies spawned has a lower rate of dropping a potion. The math still works out where if you kill more flies there's a higher total chance of getting more potions even if the individual chance of getting one potion is lower:

killing 1 generation-1 Swarm: 1/5 = 0.2 potions,
killing 2 generation-2 Swarms: 2/10 = 0.2 potions,
killing 4 generation-3 Swarms: 4/15 ≈ 0.2667 potions,
killing 8 generation-4 Swarms: 8/20 = 0.4 potions,
killing 16 generation-5 Swarms: 16/25 = 0.64 potions,

I don't know if his math is right, since in gen 2, it's 1/10 for each kill, not 1/10+1/10=2/10 for two kills, but he seems pretty convinced he's right.

Holy crap, 30? I assume the total is more than that since you'd need to use some to prevent dying of starvation/being attacked by other enemies?

butt dickus
Jul 7, 2007

top ten juiced up coaches
and the top ten juiced up players

nexus6 posted:

Holy crap, 30? I assume the total is more than that since you'd need to use some to prevent dying of starvation/being attacked by other enemies?
I never get that many and my rankings screen is filled with wins. I prefer to play carefully to where I don't need as many potions. When I won last night I used 3 potions in all of the demon halls. I cleared them out, too. This is probably why the hardest boss for me is the DM300, because there's not much you can do other than suck it up and take damage.

If you do want to farm, make sure you do it before going further, as monsters stop dropping items two levels after they stop giving experience.

Geocities Homepage King
Nov 26, 2007

I have good news, and I have bad news.
Which do you want to hear first...?
I've determined that the guy who made this game has a crab fetish. That is the only thing that can explain the number of sewer crab gang bangs that have happened in my last few games.

I should have known things would go poorly when I picked up a glaive and plate armor by level 2.

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010

loves Fat Philippe
The ghost just gave me +3 plate. Every other time it's been cloth armour. gently caress yes.

MegaCharger
Jul 12, 2006
Animate

nexus6 posted:

How do I get enough? I've bought every health potion I've seen at a shop, farmed every fly I see by luring it into a large room and unequipping my main weapon and punching them, but still the most I ever had at one time was 7. I had to use loads in the dwarf city because everything does so much damage there.

Since it's a roguelike the element of randomness plays a huge part, strategy and skill also plays a role of course. I have a rule where in general if I don't get at least a decent weapon that I can use by level 2 I just restart, because trying to ping a sewer crab to death with a knuckle duster is a huge pain. My best run that ended with me carelessly dying to trap had me given a +2 glaive and +3 plate mail on level 1, enough strength potion and upgrade scrolls to put both of those into use by level 6 or 7, plus 20+ healing potions by the time I get to the dwarf halls.

You should reasonably have about 10 or so healing potions by the time you get to the machine boss. This is assuming at least 1~3 healing potion on the 2 previous pixel marts and random drops by the flies.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

Chas McGill posted:

The ghost just gave me +3 plate. Every other time it's been cloth armour. gently caress yes.

I've gotten +5 Scale from him before. :iia:

I gotta disagree with the Wall of Spoilers and say that getting good armor is absolutely the first priority. Sewer Crabs will ruin your day starting on level three. I've gotten past Tengu just using the starting weapon, but never gotten past Tengu without at least Mail Armor.

Geocities Homepage King
Nov 26, 2007

I have good news, and I have bad news.
Which do you want to hear first...?
I really wish they'd just remove normal cloth armor from the ghost's armor list. I understand it's a roguelike but it really is just a kick in the dick how often you end up getting starter armor from him.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

Seravadon posted:

I really wish they'd just remove normal cloth armor from the ghost's armor list. I understand it's a roguelike but it really is just a kick in the dick how often you end up getting starter armor from him.

While I agree that Watabou should take Cloth Armor completely out of his reward table, I think you've just angered the RNG Gods because I've only gotten Cloth from him a couple times. I'd say that most of the time, in fact, I get Mail or better, but maybe that's just me being lucky.

Also, the Fetid Rat version of the quest should give a better reward. :mad:

butt dickus
Jul 7, 2007

top ten juiced up coaches
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precision posted:

Also, the Fetid Rat version of the quest should give a better reward. :mad:
That one's actually better because the rat is guaranteed to show up as opposed to the 1/8 chance of the rose dropping. If you alternate moving and attacking he won't paralyze you. I think if you attack him diagonally it won't get you either, but I haven't tested that.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

Doctor rear end in a top hat posted:

That one's actually better because the rat is guaranteed to show up as opposed to the 1/8 chance of the rose dropping. If you alternate moving and attacking he won't paralyze you. I think if you attack him diagonally it won't get you either, but I haven't tested that.

That's true. The diagonal trick doesn't work as of the latest version, I tried it last night and after I got a hit or two in I was suddenly paralyzed.

Not a viking
Aug 2, 2008

Feels like I just got laid
Just paid for this after it has entertained me at my commute for several weeks. And I didn't even knew I liked roguelikes! Actual graphics is a bonus.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames

Not a viking posted:

Just paid for this after it has entertained me at my commute for several weeks. And I didn't even knew I liked roguelikes! Actual graphics is a bonus.

Most roguelikes have graphics these days!

That said, give some serious thought to grabbing Desktop Dungeons on Steam. The Alpha is still free, but the finished game is absolutely gorgeous and addictive. And you can play a whole dungeon run in 10-20 minutes. It's more of a strategy board game/roguelike hybrid, but it is very very good.

MegaCharger
Jul 12, 2006
Animate

precision posted:

I've gotten +5 Scale from him before. :iia:

I gotta disagree with the Wall of Spoilers and say that getting good armor is absolutely the first priority. Sewer Crabs will ruin your day starting on level three. I've gotten past Tengu just using the starting weapon, but never gotten past Tengu without at least Mail Armor.

We will have to agree to disagree. I just beat the game with warrior, had nothing but a normal leather armor until depth 12. I three shotted tengu with a warhammer +4 though.

Super-NintendoUser
Jan 16, 2004

COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES
Soiled Meat

MegaCharger posted:

We will have to agree to disagree. I just beat the game with warrior, had nothing but a normal leather armor until depth 12. I three shotted tengu with a warhammer +4 though.

The problem with ignoring armor and going for a good weapon right away are due to the differences in how being too weak to handle a weapon or armor are different. With an armor that is too heavy you only get a penalty when you walk, each step takes two or three turns. When standing still and fighting there's no downside, weapon attacks are at the normal rate. Wielding a weapon that is too heavy for you makes your attacks considerably inaccurate and reduces damage.

This means it much better to have a heavy armor early since you can slip it on and off when you enter and leave combat, but a heavy weapon is always a liability.

I prefer a better armor early on since you can cheese Goo with a low damage attack as long as you can outlast him. You won't have more than 12 or 13 strength when you get to him, and probably if you find a really good weapon you will not be at the level for it and you attacks will be very hard to land.

That said, if I don't get a decent armor by level three I just restart since the game is already hard enough I don't feel like wasting my time.

unprofessional
Apr 26, 2007
All business.
Do you all choose a mastery as soon as you start a game, or wait a while? I picked battlemage and then found a sweet battle axe three rooms in and cursed at myself.

m.hache
Dec 1, 2004


Fun Shoe

unprofessional posted:

Do you all choose a mastery as soon as you start a game, or wait a while? I picked battlemage and then found a sweet battle axe three rooms in and cursed at myself.

Well I've been playing the warrior and I usually just jump immediately into a Gladiator. I don't like floating around low health too long to take advantage of the Bezerker buff.

Super-NintendoUser
Jan 16, 2004

COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES
Soiled Meat

unprofessional posted:

Do you all choose a mastery as soon as you start a game, or wait a while? I picked battlemage and then found a sweet battle axe three rooms in and cursed at myself.

It depends, the Bezerker and Freerunner aren't very useful to me. For the Mage, I guess it depends on what kind of wands I get. I don't know the Huntress classes well enough to make a choice.

lessthankyle
Dec 19, 2002

SKA SUCKS
Soiled Meat
I've been in the habit of choosing Warlock right off the bat with the mage. Tends to help keep my health up w/o needing to use any potions so I can score a handful of cheap ones at the first shop.

Somewhat related, would it make sense to have more class-specific (or, class-related) items spawn during any given game? I just got up to Yog-Dzewa with a Warlock but didn't find a single wand during the game (I got a +1 wand of avalanche from the NPC on L.7 or so). I had pockets full of gold from finding endless high-tier weapons, but nothing really useful. You can put together a character who can slog through the levels, but it feels a little lacking, gameplay wise.

Super-NintendoUser
Jan 16, 2004

COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES
Soiled Meat

lessthankyle posted:

I've been in the habit of choosing Warlock right off the bat with the mage. Tends to help keep my health up w/o needing to use any potions so I can score a handful of cheap ones at the first shop.

Somewhat related, would it make sense to have more class-specific (or, class-related) items spawn during any given game? I just got up to Yog-Dzewa with a Warlock but didn't find a single wand during the game (I got a +1 wand of avalanche from the NPC on L.7 or so). I had pockets full of gold from finding endless high-tier weapons, but nothing really useful. You can put together a character who can slog through the levels, but it feels a little lacking, gameplay wise.

They don't sell wands in the shop so it makes the Wizard really dependent on drops. However, you are guaranteed one nice wand, and then typically a quest gives one.

Pro tip: drop and pick up the want twenty times real quick and it bugs out and recharges every turn.

the littlest prince
Sep 23, 2006


Jerk McJerkface posted:

Pro tip: drop and pick up the want twenty times real quick and it bugs out and recharges every turn.

Before anyone rushes off to take advantage of this, you should know that you have to do this for every wand you want to exploit with this bug, and that it can stop working.

wiki entry posted:

Infinitely charged wand CHEAT

Problem

When a wand is taken and placed in the backpack, an invisible recharge buff is applied to the Hero, in order to give that wand a charge every 40 turns. However, when that wand is removed from the backpack (dropped or stolen by a thief/bandit), the recharge buff is not detached. Consequently, by dropping/taking the same wand 40 times (or more), the wand recharges itself each turn (or more) on average, making the wand practically infinitely recharged. When the game is relaunched, the superfluous recharge buffs disappear, thus that dropping/taking cheat must be performed again (for each wand), but as long as the game is running, it works.

I'm not sure what re-launched means, could be every time you load the game from the menu, or maybe only when Pixel Dungeon is completely closed and re-opened. Also, the wiki says it's 40 turns, not 20. Maybe 20 is for mages and 40 for everyone else?

butt dickus
Jul 7, 2007

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Jerk McJerkface posted:

Pro tip: drop and pick up the want twenty times real quick and it bugs out and recharges every turn.
Holy poo poo this happened to one of my wands after it was stolen a couple times and I wondered what the hell was going on.

MegaCharger
Jul 12, 2006
Animate
Is it even worth it to exploit a bug like that? Wands do no damage past Tengu, chipping away at 8 health a shot with the wand of lightning while they slam dunk you for 30 per hit seems pretty useless. Unless you want to stunlock them to death with the avalanche wand.

In general I feel like ranged weapons are rather worthless. Not only are there limited ammunition, and that you aren't guaranteed to find them, but they also don't do that much damage. Even if they are good, there is very little way to keep your distance once the fight started. The only ones who are good at ranged fight are those loving scorpions in the demon halls, because they inflict the crippled debuff so they can shoot then back off infinitely. I feel like the huntress sniper class should get that, otherwise she is useless.

lessthankyle
Dec 19, 2002

SKA SUCKS
Soiled Meat

Jerk McJerkface posted:

They don't sell wands in the shop so it makes the Wizard really dependent on drops. However, you are guaranteed one nice wand, and then typically a quest gives one.

Pro tip: drop and pick up the want twenty times real quick and it bugs out and recharges every turn.

That's what I mean. You can't buy a wand, so you really need the drops. Oddly I didn't even find a wand outside of what the quest gave me. Maybe just a weird one-off situation, but I'd rather mage runs have more wand drops instead of weapons. You'd run the risk of wand hoarding, I suppose, but only if you really lucked out with drops.



Edit: Also, has anyone seen a similar bug? Two graves spawned in the walls outside Tengu's room. You could dig 'em up and fight the wraiths, but couldn't collect what dropped:

lessthankyle fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Feb 7, 2014

butt dickus
Jul 7, 2007

top ten juiced up coaches
and the top ten juiced up players

MegaCharger posted:

Is it even worth it to exploit a bug like that? Wands do no damage past Tengu, chipping away at 8 health a shot with the wand of lightning while they slam dunk you for 30 per hit seems pretty useless. Unless you want to stunlock them to death with the avalanche wand.
Damage from wands of firebolt and disintegration increases exponentially with level. And you get more charges, so those two are worth upgrading. Lightning, not so much. You could also do it to a wand of blink for rapid travel, a wand of regrowth to get lots of dew/seeds, a wand of teleportation to avoid fights, a wand of amok to make enemies fight each other and probably a couple of other things I'm missing.

lessthankyle posted:

Edit: Also, has anyone seen a similar bug? Two graves spawned in the walls outside Tengu's room. You could dig 'em up and fight the wraiths, but couldn't collect what dropped:

Sometimes weird stuff happens with special rooms. Yesterday I found a key with no door (I even used a mapping scroll) and it took me longer than it should have to figure out that one of the (normally locked) alchemy rooms just had a regular door because it was attached to the blacksmith room.

the littlest prince
Sep 23, 2006


You guys should add those bugs to the wiki.

precision
May 7, 2006

by VideoGames
I had a weird bug I emailed Watabou about :

Basically, I was surrounded and read a scroll of Teleportation. I suddenly couldn't see my character on the map, though I could see some "zzz"s in unexplored black space. I tapped near one and suddenly my character was there and the room was visible.

I think it happened because the room I teleported into hadn't been explored and also was only accessible via a secret door I hadn't found, but who knows. It was weird.

lessthankyle
Dec 19, 2002

SKA SUCKS
Soiled Meat
Yeah, I'll throw it in there.

Also, just ran a quick table of wand damages. I kinda wish they made the Magic Missle wand a little more useful, it's kind of pathetic.

m.hache
Dec 1, 2004


Fun Shoe
Any tips for killing wraiths? I've heard that kiting them into a doorway helps but I still seem to miss a lot.

Lights
Dec 9, 2007

Lights, the Peacock King, First of His Name.

m.hache posted:

Any tips for killing wraiths? I've heard that kiting them into a doorway helps but I still seem to miss a lot.

The doorway trick only works for one wraith at a time, once you've got a corpse in the door it doesn't seem to function until the corpse has had enough turns to go away. So just kite them through a door, kill one, kite to the next door, kill, etc, and pray that you don't have something terrible show up to wreck your poo poo.

m.hache
Dec 1, 2004


Fun Shoe

Kaninrail posted:

The doorway trick only works for one wraith at a time, once you've got a corpse in the door it doesn't seem to function until the corpse has had enough turns to go away. So just kite them through a door, kill one, kite to the next door, kill, etc, and pray that you don't have something terrible show up to wreck your poo poo.

Ah gotcha.

Well, another question. Any tip on the rooms with 3 graves in them? That seems like a lot of kiting.

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003

by Hand Knit

m.hache posted:

Ah gotcha.

Well, another question. Any tip on the rooms with 3 graves in them? That seems like a lot of kiting.

Back yourself into the wall or corner to remove wraiths from showing up. Doors do not help in this fashion.

lessthankyle
Dec 19, 2002

SKA SUCKS
Soiled Meat
If you kite any enemy through a door, just step back in the doorway and out to close it. If there are enemies there they'll probably attack you, but if you have a decent armor they'll likely miss.

butt dickus
Jul 7, 2007

top ten juiced up coaches
and the top ten juiced up players

Kaninrail posted:

The doorway trick only works for one wraith at a time, once you've got a corpse in the door it doesn't seem to function until the corpse has had enough turns to go away. So just kite them through a door, kill one, kite to the next door, kill, etc, and pray that you don't have something terrible show up to wreck your poo poo.
The doorway trick works for all monsters, not just wraiths. When a monster steps on a closed door tile your next attack against them will always be successful (and do extra damage if you're an assassin). If a monster is one step behind you, you can still do this trick as you close the door when you leave it, and they reopen it immediately. You can't close a door that has an item or corpse on it. This trick only works if the door is there, not if it's burned/disintegrated. You can close doors with the wand of telekinesis (which you might have if the wandmaker shafts you).

MegaCharger
Jul 12, 2006
Animate

m.hache posted:

Ah gotcha.

Well, another question. Any tip on the rooms with 3 graves in them? That seems like a lot of kiting.

The rooms with multiple graves are usually not worth it unless you're a mage or have some reliable way of getting rid of the wraiths. They never give anything really good anyways, most of the time they just give 1 gold. Better save your resources for something else with better rewards.

butt dickus
Jul 7, 2007

top ten juiced up coaches
and the top ten juiced up players

MegaCharger posted:

The rooms with multiple graves are usually not worth it unless you're a mage or have some reliable way of getting rid of the wraiths. They never give anything really good anyways, most of the time they just give 1 gold. Better save your resources for something else with better rewards.
Usually one of the graves has an item under it and the rest have one gold. It's pretty easy to clear them out if you've got a few doorways to lure them through. The room is always filled with grass and torching it will kill all the wraiths in the room.

Inudeku
Jul 13, 2008
I almost beat goo without killing a single monster. Has anyone actually gotten past him with him being the only killed monster? And if so I would definitely how far you could go

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kemikalkadet
Sep 16, 2012

:woof:

m.hache posted:

Ah gotcha.

Well, another question. Any tip on the rooms with 3 graves in them? That seems like a lot of kiting.

The floor in those rooms are always short grass. tag every grave then set the floor alight as you run out. This is risky and not worth it at all but is really great when you pull it off

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