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Cyril Sneer
Aug 8, 2004

Life would be simple in the forest except for Cyril Sneer. And his life would be simple except for The Raccoons.

I can't believe I'm posting an E/N thread. This was a forum I mocked, a place I came for humour, and now here I am sharing my troubles with internet strangers.

I'm an engineer working in a specialized area, living in downtown Toronto. A few years ago I worked for an American company that has an office here. I got along really well with one of my supervisors - it was really a kind of mentor relationship - and he's kind of a big name in my field. He developed a lot of the early technology when the field was first becoming a thing back in the early 80s. He's worked in various high-level positions at the main firms in the industry and knows all the big players.

He's indicated his trust in my talents in the past, and recently, sent along a message saying that if I was available he'd hire me immediately. That sounds pretty great right? Well the problem is he/the company is located in a mid-sized suburban town in Delaware. So obviously I'd have to move.

That's where the struggle comes in. First off, I'm very much opposed to American politics and attitudes. This may sound trivial, but morally, I really hate the idea of making money off of and/or contributing to a culture that disturbs me (ah, the joys of becoming a mature, thinking adult). Oh, and he's Mormon. Now there's nothing wrong with this necessarily, but as a liberal, atheist Canadian, learning about that whole world was very strange - and there seems to be an unusually high proportion of them in the upper levels of engineering firms in the US. On a professional level it's not really an issue, but if I have to build closer personal relationships - attend company functions and the like - I'm not sure things would work out so well. Which leads into the bigger issue: lifestyle. I'm single and I love living in the city; I have a great social circle here and I'm a big nightlife-going-out-hipster type guy. I really don't see how I could have that lifestyle heading down there.

But on the other hand it would be a fantastic career opportunity, and I'm old enough to know that sometimes you have to push yourself out of your comfort zone in order to progress. I dunno. Goons, help me out.

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Fatkraken
Jun 23, 2005

Fun-time is over.

Cyril Sneer posted:


But on the other hand it would be a fantastic career opportunity, and I'm old enough to know that sometimes you have to push yourself out of your comfort zone in order to progress. I dunno. Goons, help me out.

Where do you see yourself in ten years? Not just professionally but in terms of lifestyle and personal life, including day to day living and where you will be located.

Is this move necessary or particularly useful in getting you to that point? Could it lock you into living somewhere you don't actually like for a long time?

I'm not a particularly ambitious person career wise, I'm work-to-live rather than live-to-work and personally, I would not do it. Whether you do it depends on how much more emphasis you put on work, what long term opportunities you will be locked out of permanently if you don't go, and how much those opportunities mean to you considering your life as a whole.

Veskit
Mar 2, 2005

Battle not with monsters
lest ye become a monster
and if you gaze into the abyss,
the abyss gazes also into you.


Cyril Sneer posted:

That's where the struggle comes in. First off, I'm very much opposed to American politics and attitudes. This may sound trivial, but morally, I really hate the idea of making money off of and/or contributing to a culture that disturbs me (ah, the joys of becoming a mature, thinking adult).

This is probably the most immature thing I've read on E/N in a long god drat time. What does it say about you if you decide to take this job? That you are going to look down upon the entire country for their attitudes and politics while living amongst and enjoying the fantastic opportunity the country is providing you? What the gently caress does your coworker's religious persuasion have to do with your ability to go to work and have a good career?


You're being so judgemental. You judged E/N yet you are using it. You're judging america yet you're heavily considering moving there. You're an atheist and you're judging someone else for what they believe, and not even their actions.



Don't move to the states for this job unless you're willing to make a fundamental change with your attitude. Nobody will like you, and you won't like anything about the states.

Taima
Dec 31, 2006


I'm just confused what you expect to get out of this thread OP, it sounds like a totally personal choice that depends entirely on what you want.

Taima fucked around with this message at Jan 17, 2014 around 17:56

Cyril Sneer
Aug 8, 2004

Life would be simple in the forest except for Cyril Sneer. And his life would be simple except for The Raccoons.

Taima posted:

I'm just confused what you expect to get out of this thread OP, it sounds like a totally personal choice that depends entirely on what you want.

Kind of like every E/N thread

I would like to hear from other people who have done such things and how they felt about it.

Cyril Sneer
Aug 8, 2004

Life would be simple in the forest except for Cyril Sneer. And his life would be simple except for The Raccoons.

Veskit posted:

This is probably the most immature thing I've read on E/N in a long god drat time. What does it say about you if you decide to take this job? That you are going to look down upon the entire country for their attitudes and politics while living amongst and enjoying the fantastic opportunity the country is providing you?

You might have a point here if I actually took the job, then started complaining. I'm thinking about this before I take the job.

Veskit posted:

What the gently caress does your coworker's religious persuasion have to do with your ability to go to work and have a good career?

It depends. If I was just a nameless employee who could show up, do my work, and leave that would be fine. Its different when there are expectations to show up to company functions and personal events. With a wife. With people wondering when you're going to have kids.

Veskit posted:

You're being so judgemental. You judged E/N yet you are using it. You're judging america yet you're heavily considering moving there. You're an atheist and you're judging someone else for what they believe, and not even their actions.

I'm not judging the guy at all. I mentioned quite clearly I think he's a fantastic guy. These are issue with me, hence why I'm trying to clarify if I'm off my rocker or not.

pathetic little tramp
Dec 12, 2005

HE IS GLISTEN


Cyril Sneer posted:



It depends. If I was just a nameless employee who could show up, do my work, and leave that would be fine. Its different when there are expectations to show up to company functions and personal events. With a wife. With people wondering when you're going to have kids.



That's a bigger issue. Your personal life should not be heavily intertwined with your business life and there are mormons who believe the exact opposite, which tends to happen more often with mormonism than a lot of other societies.

If you're not able to deal with having to put up with that junk in your personal life, I would say don't let your professional career override that. That said, are you overblowing that?

Also, either way you go, do what you can to retain your Canadian citizenship, you don't want to lose that healthcare thing you've got going on.

Adar
Jul 27, 2001

William "J." Fillmaff in training

If this guy was a mentor of yours and you got along well with him, why would you give a poo poo about his religion, especially when he presumably knows you aren't religious and is still practically cold calling you for a job?

City->suburb does make a difference, but it depends on what part of Delaware you're in. Wilmington's less than an hour from Philly.

Veskit
Mar 2, 2005

Battle not with monsters
lest ye become a monster
and if you gaze into the abyss,
the abyss gazes also into you.


Cyril Sneer posted:

I'm not judging the guy at all.

It depends. If I was just a nameless employee who could show up, do my work, and leave that would be fine. Its different when there are expectations to show up to company functions and personal events. With a wife. With people wondering when you're going to have kids.

I'm not judging the guy at all.

This is a judgement. How can you not see that?


You're decision making abilities are being clouded by your judgements of your boss, his family, and america.



In other words yes this is you, you either need to learn to not be judgemental of others, or stay the same, do nothing, and be happy with it.

compshateme85
Jan 28, 2009


Delaware sucks, just fyi. If it was SF or NY, I would say go for it.

Windir
Oct 30, 2011


Do you know if they're going to put you up for an H1B visa, or are you strictly going on a TN? I'm going through the taxes for both countries right now as I live just north of Toronto, but commute to the states every week. Let me tell you it's a pain in the rear end.

Regardless of all the horror stories of politics and guns and whatever, people in the states are generally good people that you can definitely be friends with as long as you don't take their insults about being Canadian too seriously. I wouldn't worry about the Mormon thing too much, they're not going to force you to go to temple. Just don't get poo poo-faced at company events and you should be fine.

Delaware is going to be a big change from downtown Toronto, you'll pretty much be be living in Barrie. Income tax will relatively remain the same, but there's no sales tax in Delaware, so hit up the outlet malls! If you want a taste of a city over there New York and Philly are very close, both with ample hipster populations.

It's pretty common these days for weekly commuters, is there an option to fly down on Monday morning and come back on Thursday night? Might be something to explore.

Millow
Apr 30, 2006

some say he's a rude dude with a crude 'tude

compshateme85 posted:

Delaware sucks, just fyi. If it was SF or NY, I would say go for it.

Basically this, but other cities as well. But not Delaware, not ever Delaware. You'll totally hate it dude, especially coming from T.O

Dusseldorf
Mar 29, 2005



I'd say don't move to Delaware but the whole Canadian economy is gonna crash and burn once the real estate bubble collapses so it might not be the worst option. At least when you visit Cape May you can hang out with the other Canadians.

Poison Cake
Feb 15, 2012


Fatkraken posted:

Where do you see yourself in ten years? Not just professionally but in terms of lifestyle and personal life, including day to day living and where you will be located.

Is this move necessary or particularly useful in getting you to that point? Could it lock you into living somewhere you don't actually like for a long time?

I'm not a particularly ambitious person career wise, I'm work-to-live rather than live-to-work and personally, I would not do it. Whether you do it depends on how much more emphasis you put on work, what long term opportunities you will be locked out of permanently if you don't go, and how much those opportunities mean to you considering your life as a whole.


Quoting, because I agree with everything in this three paragraphs.

I'm from the northeast United States and your concerns make a lot of sense to me. I wouldn't move were I in your shoes, but this is your decision. No one can make it for you.

One thing additional thing to consider, you're single correct? If you move down here, your dating pool is going to be people who may never want to live anywhere but the States. I have a Canadian friend who cannot talk her American husband into considering Canada as a place to live and I know it's a point of contention.

letthereberock
Sep 4, 2004



Where in Delaware? Depending on where you are, you may be very close to DC or Philadelphia. I've known people who work in Wilmington and commute from Philly because they want the city lifestyle.

Can you elaborate a little more on the aspects of American culture that are troubling to you? I hope you are not basing all of your feelings on stereotypes and/or SA forum horror stories.

ChairMaster
Aug 22, 2009



Why the gently caress would you want to live in America when you already live in a way better place than that?

Why would you even consider this? Is this guy offering you a 7 digit salary or something?

e: if he's offering you a 7 digit salary then I say do it. Otherwise fuckin don't!

ChairMaster fucked around with this message at Jan 17, 2014 around 20:58

Cyril Sneer
Aug 8, 2004

Life would be simple in the forest except for Cyril Sneer. And his life would be simple except for The Raccoons.

letthereberock posted:

Where in Delaware? Depending on where you are, you may be very close to DC or Philadelphia. I've known people who work in Wilmington and commute from Philly because they want the city lifestyle.

Can you elaborate a little more on the aspects of American culture that are troubling to you? I hope you are not basing all of your feelings on stereotypes and/or SA forum horror stories.

It's near Wilmington. The whole concept of commuting scares me. Living and working downtown I've always been able to just hop on a subway and get to work, if not walk. I've never owned a car.

re: American culture. Lack of universal healthcare. I get that I'll be covered but its bothersome to me that people actually don't think this is a good thing to have. Attitudes of politicians down there - the blatant efforts by the wealthy to continue to strip away any kind of social services, break down unions, and otherwise undermine the less well-off at every junction. American foreign policy. As someone with an interest in politics and what I hope is reasonably well-thought-out moral position, these aren't things I can't just ignore because JOB, MONEY. These aren't decisive factors but they are things that sit uneasy with me.

enbot
Jun 7, 2013


ChairMaster posted:

Why the gently caress would you want to live in America when you already live in a way better place than that?


I'm confused, he said he lives in Canada.

Cyril Sneer posted:

re: American culture. Lack of universal healthcare. I get that I'll be covered but its bothersome to me that people actually don't think this is a good thing to have. Attitudes of politicians down there - the blatant efforts by the wealthy to continue to strip away any kind of social services, break down unions, and otherwise undermine the less well-off at every junction. American foreign policy. As someone with an interest in politics and what I hope is reasonably well-thought-out moral position, these aren't things I can't just ignore because JOB, MONEY. These aren't decisive factors but they are things that sit uneasy with me.

Canada's been headed down this path for some time now. Good luck with that whole mortgage thing.

letthereberock
Sep 4, 2004



Cyril Sneer posted:

It's near Wilmington. The whole concept of commuting scares me. Living and working downtown I've always been able to just hop on a subway and get to work, if not walk. I've never owned a car.

I think this should take priority over your other considerations. You absolutely will not be able to function in DE without a car, so if owning one is completely unappealing to you (and believe me I sympathize) than living there will be miserable for you.

Seriously, if this was a major city they were sending you too, right now I'd be trying to convince you that things are changing for the better, and that you'd be plesantly surprised by the attitudes of most young people here. But Delaware has very little to offer a young, single person. I live less than an hour away and I wouldn't relocate there.

Cyril Sneer
Aug 8, 2004

Life would be simple in the forest except for Cyril Sneer. And his life would be simple except for The Raccoons.

letthereberock posted:

I think this should take priority over your other considerations. You absolutely will not be able to function in DE without a car, so if owning one is completely unappealing to you (and believe me I sympathize) than living there will be miserable for you.

Seriously, if this was a major city they were sending you too, right now I'd be trying to convince you that things are changing for the better, and that you'd be plesantly surprised by the attitudes of most young people here. But Delaware has very little to offer a young, single person. I live less than an hour away and I wouldn't relocate there.

Thanks, this is useful. Indeed if it was a major city I would most likely go for it.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

Cyril Sneer posted:

It's near Wilmington. The whole concept of commuting scares me. Living and working downtown I've always been able to just hop on a subway and get to work, if not walk. I've never owned a car.

re: American culture. Lack of universal healthcare. I get that I'll be covered but its bothersome to me that people actually don't think this is a good thing to have. Attitudes of politicians down there - the blatant efforts by the wealthy to continue to strip away any kind of social services, break down unions, and otherwise undermine the less well-off at every junction. American foreign policy. As someone with an interest in politics and what I hope is reasonably well-thought-out moral position, these aren't things I can't just ignore because JOB, MONEY. These aren't decisive factors but they are things that sit uneasy with me.
Well, on the upside, thanks to OBAMACARE, (more of) the very poor can get Medicaid for free, and the somewhat poor/middle class get subsidies for health insurance, so it's a much better situation than it used to be (also: no more lifetime limits, no getting blocked due to pre-existing conditions, kids can stay on parents' health insurance until they're 26, etc.).

Morby
Sep 6, 2007

Double Trouble

You seem to already be predisposed not to do it, so don't. There are things you'd have to do that you aren't comfortable with, such as getting a car. Just dispense with the whole thing and say "Thanks, but no thanks" as politely as possible.

Accretionist
Nov 7, 2012


Delaware sucks, doing anything would mean driving and cultural compatibility is a real thing to worry about. It sounds like you'd do well to stay in Canada.

Cyril Sneer
Aug 8, 2004

Life would be simple in the forest except for Cyril Sneer. And his life would be simple except for The Raccoons.

The most compelling thing I've drawn from this thread: Delaware sucks.

Dusseldorf
Mar 29, 2005



Cyril Sneer posted:

The most compelling thing I've drawn from this thread: Delaware sucks.

Have you seen Wayne's World?

Cyril Sneer
Aug 8, 2004

Life would be simple in the forest except for Cyril Sneer. And his life would be simple except for The Raccoons.

Dusseldorf posted:

Have you seen Wayne's World?

Yes. But sometimes I wonder...I grew up in the suburbs. Many people with good jobs live in the suburbs. Am I just being obstinate?

Queen Gnome
Jul 30, 2006

Her Lawnliness


Yeah, don't do it.

Americans would hate your attitude of "I hate these specific things about you society, so I don't like it as a whole. But I'm working and living here," and you wouldn't like Delaware compared to Toronto.

You should try and realize that most Americans ALSO hate the things you listed. We just don't dislike everybody/thing because of it seeing as that's immature as gently caress. Like canada, America is a huge place with equally huge variations from region to region.

EasternBronze
Jul 19, 2011


quote:

That's where the struggle comes in. First off, I'm very much opposed to American politics and attitudes. This may sound trivial, but morally, I really hate the idea of making money off of and/or contributing to a culture that disturbs me (ah, the joys of becoming a mature, thinking adult).

Ahh sure, Canada is so different from the U.S. I've never had to tell people abroad that Canada isn't a state in the U.S.

OBAMA CURES ALAWIS
Sep 5, 2013

by XyloJW


AS A LIBERAL ATHEIST CANADIAN I

Hyzenth1ay
Oct 24, 2008


Is the new role more money, more responsibility, and will it teach you more?
Can you get those lessons anywhere else or is your field really that specialized?

America is poo poo, Delaware is double-poo poo, and the suburbs are where the over-thirty crowd goes to get away from all the "urban" folk and vote republican in peace.

Either that or I'm just grumpy.

The Whole Internet
May 26, 2010



There are plenty places in the US where you would be comfortable. It's a big, diverse country and there are definitely a lot of cities and a number of states where you'd find people whose politics are not so different from yours and you'd have a great time. Parts of the country are also geographically pretty beautiful, and definitely a whole lot more interesting than flat, frozen Toronto. Delaware... is not one of those places.

Now, people are exaggerating a little bit. Delaware is far from the worst state; you'd hate living in the great plains states or the deep south. I'm not sure about Delaware. My impression of the place is that nobody would live there if it weren't a huge tax haven for corporations. It is one of the smallest states, literally a 10 minute drive to get through it, and I don't know the faintest thing about it other than that. So take that however you will.

Depending on where you were in the state, you'd be close to interesting stuff. If you're in Wilmington then Baltimore is not a long drive, and it has some stuff. Philadelphia is even closer and that definitely has stuff. I know nothing about Wilmington itself though.

Niwrad
Jul 1, 2008



There isn't some magical change that happens when you cross the border. I've lived in both countries, it's really not all that different (especially if you're coming from Toronto of all places). Your decision has nothing to do with America, it has to do with city vs suburbs. If you're someone who loves the city and can't imagine living outside of one, stay. If it's not that big of a deal, move.

My advice is to move if the opportunity is as big as you say it is. You'll grow out of the douchey moral superhero stuff like everyone else does and you'll kick yourself in 10 years for passing it up. Young city life is fun but it doesn't last forever. Delaware is close enough to major cities that weekend trips are easy and the tax situation in the state is pretty nice. Experience life on your own, don't base your decisions off of what other people who have not experienced it either want you to believe.

WAMPA_STOMPA
Oct 21, 2010


Philly owns, you can be close to Philly.

Desmond
Jul 24, 2002

I'll see ya in another life, brother

OBAMA CURES ALAWIS posted:

AS A LIBERAL ATHEIST CANADIAN I

He doesn't seem to know his own prime minister is an evangelical christian (EVEN THOUGH HE IS A MATURE THINKING ADULT)

LimburgLimbo
Feb 10, 2008

One day I will be happy
every day


To be totally honest, and I'm not shitposting here, you sound pretty immature and insufferable. I question whether you're emotionally mature enough to successfully move your whole life somewhere else and be successful.

Cyril Sneer
Aug 8, 2004

Life would be simple in the forest except for Cyril Sneer. And his life would be simple except for The Raccoons.

Hyzenth1ay posted:

Is the new role more money, more responsibility, and will it teach you more?
Can you get those lessons anywhere else or is your field really that specialized?

America is poo poo, Delaware is double-poo poo, and the suburbs are where the over-thirty crowd goes to get away from all the "urban" folk and vote republican in peace.

Either that or I'm just grumpy.

I could get the same skills here, its more about the money, responsibility, and networking opportunities.

Your description of Delaware is exactly how how I picture it.


Desmond posted:

He doesn't seem to know his own prime minister is an evangelical christian (EVEN THOUGH HE IS A MATURE THINKING ADULT)

Oh I'm plenty aware. Harper is awful.

Cyril Sneer
Aug 8, 2004

Life would be simple in the forest except for Cyril Sneer. And his life would be simple except for The Raccoons.

oops.

Dusseldorf
Mar 29, 2005



So if you make this move and you hate it will this close bridges with the job for moving back? If not then then cost of you hating Delaware is much lower.

Cyril Sneer
Aug 8, 2004

Life would be simple in the forest except for Cyril Sneer. And his life would be simple except for The Raccoons.

Dusseldorf posted:

So if you make this move and you hate it will this close bridges with the job for moving back? If not then then cost of you hating Delaware is much lower.

This is really the big question. This situation here is obviously different than the faceless employee situation I described. The guy is doing it because he personally wants me there and I feel like it would be a bit of a faux pas to run back home after 6 months because Delaware sucks, man!

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Niwrad
Jul 1, 2008



Why not spend a weekend in Delaware and decide for yourself if it is a place you could live? Or maybe find a place on the web where you can ask people who have actually lived in Delaware what to expect? Not trying to be a dick, but asking a bunch of other people who have never been in Delaware to describe it seems kind of silly.

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