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opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

madmac posted:

I'm probably the only one mad enough to try and skill-up Apollo, (He's a key piece of my Athena team.) but here's my analysis of the Mystic Light Dungeon so far.

Pro: Very easy. Probably the easiest Mystic Dungeon after dark. Jammer spam is super-annoying but the Cyclops have such massive windup it's unlikely they'll ever land a killing blow. The Dragon only has about 1 million HP so one big combo with orb enhance should be enough to do him in.

Cons: You will get roughly no Cyclops on an average run. You get two waves with a 30% chance of dropping on Legend, and even the damned un-evolved Cyclops are a relatively rare spawn that always show up with a wave of random crap you don't want. The chance of getting the unevolved version is actually much lower overall then the evolved one.

Conclusion: gently caress this dungeon why am I doing this arrrrrg.

Seriously if the drop rate wasn't so low I'd be tempted to just run expert for unevolved drops or something. It's that bad.

I just tried Legend with a Kirin team, and it went just fine, even with a useless Verche on board. Waves 2 and 5 were as easy as clear blockers->target Cyclops, while the dragon went down to 2 gravities and a single attack. With a decent Mastering, there would be pretty much no threats. Too bad I don't have an Apollo!

But before you rely on unevolved drop, bear in mind they take Light Keepers to evolve. 50 stamina for a 66% chance of an evolved drop beats 30 stamina for a 50% chance at an evolution material.

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opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Murgos posted:

For Valkitty, if you really want to be able to do x16 every turn you need what?

Presumably, you use her when you don't need x16 every turn, but in a dungeon where you need to stall. She gives you a 16x that you absolutely, positively cannot activate by accident, and along with enough low-CD skills can be turned on when needed. The only dungeon that jumps out at me is the Twinlit dungeon: start with a skill you can activate on turn 1, blow away all but one Mythlit, then comfortably stall with no fear of turning on your multiplier. Although that team might not have the oomph to blow away the Twinlits, now that I think about it.

I rolled three times and got Cinnamaroll (seems like she'll go great with the Genbu I don't have), Kuromi (ick) and Valkitty, but I'm struggling to come up with dungeons I'd actually want to use her for. I guess delay on a Light Healer is pretty neat, at least.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Suprfli6 posted:

I did Hera three days ago, took 2 stones to do it. If Zeus is really that much harder I am fine with waiting until next time though.

To give you an idea of how much harder, way back in the day, even when there were a bunch of strategies for 0-stoning Hera, the most accessible strategy for beating Zeus was to run 2x Dark Golems as your Leaders and let Zeus one-shot you, repeatedly, until you got lucky enough with their counterattacks for him to paste himself as well. A sub 10-stone run would be considered pretty slick.

padijun posted:

what the gently caress? I have to see this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJIf6AVehYw

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

FrickenMoron posted:

With Red Sonia nothing keeps you from teaming up with divine queen hera or hera ur.

Yeah, but you still need decent devils, which are extremely limited in the early- and mid- game. On the other hand, given that an ADK got me through nearly all of the Normal/Technical dungeons, it seems like one with 2.5x more recovery and a sexy skill for bombing bosses would at LEAST be "sick of rerolling tier". I can see how she wouldn't be above that, due to her inevitable drop-off as a Leader when you try to start doing Descended dungeons, but at least she'd get you there in no time flat.

Speaking of which, I don't think it's been mentioned in this thread that Japan is about to get a dungeon that requires your monsters to all be Dragon-type. Time for my double max-skill ADKs to shine :smug: (oh my god I was so stupid to do that)

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Zierham posted:

So, dumb question perhaps, but my non-IAP account has basically poo poo for REM Leads. Basically just DD Batman and Leilan. Should I roll the Kitty REM with my current 17 stones plus whatever I get from Challenge Mode in the next 2 weeks, or save it for the next decent godfest?

Link to box is here in case it helps: http://www.padherder.com/user/Zierham3/monsters/

Thanks!

As far as I can tell, save it for a Godfest. None of the monsters are really suited for your Seiryuu or Batman team, and only Purin stands out as an obvious boost to your box. Valkitty is interesting, but seems like she demands an incredibly specific team to make her worthwhile. And those are the rarest ones, meaning your far more likely to end up with the pool of silver eggs: four worthless monsters, a Balanced/Green team sub and a Genbu/Healer team sub. Those aren't great odds, compared to rolling on Egyptian/Chinese or even Norse/New Greek to expand your 4/2/2 possibilities.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

What the hell? What do you even run in this case if you can't get Zaerog/Fagan, ADK? Dragons have really crappy leader skills usually.

You can't even run Fagan, because he's a God/Dragon. It's got to be their primary type, because... I have no goddamn idea :psyduck:

So you could run CDK-V + Green Sonia for a 5/2/2.5 team, but you can't use Indra or Vritra. The Starter Dragons are okay, but not their Hello Kitty equivalents. If there are no crazy gimmicks (ha!), I'm guessing CDK/ADK/CDD/Canopus/Hadar/GrSonia will be a pretty standard team.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Vahalla posted:

And a one-color Chaser dungeon wouldn't be?

The main difference is that Hamahime drops from Tengu and three of Samurai Dragon dungeons, whereas a Chaser drops from one Mechdragon dungeon and waaaay more rarely at that. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but Hamahime is only super-exciting if you have a DA Meta to pair him with, whereas you only need Byakko to be hungry for Dark Chasers. Not that a 5-turn orb-changer isn't obviously GOOD, but I'm guessing Hamahime wouldn't be doing half as well if it wasn't for DA Meta users trying to build The Perfect Team.

e: Whoops, Chasers also appear in the Pirate Dragon dungeons. My point stands, but good to know they're a tad less rare than I thought.

opaopa13 fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Jan 28, 2014

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Mirthless posted:

Hanzo is useful on D.Meta, 4/2/2 Dark and A.M. Vampire Duke teams at least, and I am sure I am missing a few. I would bet he's more useful on more teams than Haku, and probably about as many people have him.

Useful, yes, but critical? Why is he in the only Ninja whose skill-up monster is in the running? Sasuke sucks because he doesn't jump the RBG|LD divide, and I don't know how frequent the pirate dragon invades are for Chiyome and Kotaro, but you'd think Hatsume would be up there with Hanzo if it was mostly about the 4/2/2 or 9/1/1 teams.

Also, I'd be willing to be that Byakko is more common, given that Chinese Godfests are more frequent than Ninja Godfests (Attackerfests?).

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

uXs posted:

So, are those ultimates going to make him a usable mono-red leader?

At this point, it's probably safe to guess:

Fire/Water: Normal evo mats, Leader Skill becomes 1.5x to all stats for Fire/[type], minor stat boost across the board. Gains... Physical type, or maybe Balanced.

Fire/Dark: Requires Devilits, 3x ATK for Fire monsters, probably gains quite a bit of ATK and loses some... I'm guessing HP this time. Gains... let's say Attacker type.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Murgos posted:

So, 3.5x damage to Healer and Light ATK when HP >80%?

No, just L/L, same Leader Skill as before. Take that, Nebradisk!

I'm kind of glad this announce comes after the CoC collab closed, just so there's no temptation to hoard a pile of goblins/archers/barbarians until it comes stateside. So many more skill-ups.,,

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

THE AWESOME GHOST posted:

What's skill block? Like a bind that only effects skills?

Yeah, it's like a status shield that prevents you from using ANY skills. It seems kind of weird to be hearing about awakenings to make yourself immune to it before we even get our first dungeon that uses it. Instead of having to make sure your team either has the survivability to last through it or can nuke the boss even without skills, this makes it seem like it's just going to be matter of hoping you have the right Gods to block it and waiting until you have enough Tamadra to awaken them properly.

crazystray posted:

Thanks for the advice, that sounds like some really cool synergy, I wonder if I could have all F subs with sub-types to cover Horus activation.

Sure you can! F/L Horus + F/B Ifrit + F/G Ifrit + F/D Ifrit, with a slot left over for EchidnaULTIMATE IFRIT!

In all seriousness, I don't think the subs you're supposed to take make it worthwhile. You'll end up giving up a hefty amount of utility, while still being unable to really stack Fire multipliers the way a monocolor team does. Maybe for a dungeon where you can pick off the trash with 1x attacks, allowing you to stall easily, but otherwise I don't really see it. Your options are limited to:

Fire/Water: The Fire Skydragon/Pirate Dragon work, but a nuke on a Horus team is pretty lame. You're probably better off with Dashing Wingman, if you have him. His stats are poor, but hey, 30% extra Fire Damage for 5 turns.

Fire/Wood: If you don't have Ifrit, Dino Rider or the Strawberry Dragon, your non-REM options are Wood Samurai Ogre or Red Dragon Fruit. Of those, Dino Rider has the only useful skill.

Fire/Light: Horus himself, or Gigas if you haven't ultimate-evolved him yet.

Fire/Dark: Hera-Ur, probably. Ares is probably better than packing a 3rd Fire Orb Enhance, if you have him.

Personally, I think it makes more sense to bring Cu Chulainn, which along with F/L Horus covers everything but Water. That still leaves your team with 5/6 Fire-primary monsters and gives you two slots for any monster you like. Or maybe a Water/Wood sub would be even better, like... Lakshmi? Top Droidragon? Marine Rider? I guess?

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

RoboCicero posted:

This is a problem that was, in some sense, further exacerbated by AA Lucifer! For a while post-Egyptian there was the (vague, faint) promise that you either had the skill to run a 16x team or you could muddle through with a 4/2/2 on the back of orb-clearing ability and consistent orb changing. With the addition of AA Lucifer and the attempt to not have him trivialize all dungeons, most new dungeons open up with a huge gently caress-off room designed to be breezed through by high multiplier teams and impossible to complete on a 1/4/4 team. This, unfortunately, meant more standard mono-color teams struggle a lot with new descendeds. The increasing ease of getting a 9x team also means that more descended are built around breaking 12x or bust.

I mean, on one level this is good for GungHo as well, as an environment when people are running 16x teams that are very vulnerable to hiccups while stalling means magic stones going towards "I'll nail that combo the next turn, just you see!", but on the other why is Parvati getting 3x to green or 1.5x without any other buffs :argh:

At least it's very promising that GungHo keeps going back to buff monocolor teams again and again. The entire awakening system was a love letter to color-focused teams, and they keep adding more awakenings, more orb-enhancers, longer color buffs and shorter cooldowns, along with better stats and more flexibility for monocolor leaders, and so on. It's definitely better that the game went from "Horus or you're hosed" to a more balanced state. If nothing else, it's really nice that they're clearly interested in at least somewhat balancing the old Gods, instead of just inventing a new Pantheon every week to invalidate everything you've rolled so far.

Also, I just wish you could fuse 5 baby tamadra to make a full one. I get why PaD has so much randomness in it, but given that it's been over a month since I've seen one in the wild and we've only gotten two so far from events, it's come to feel like I will just never awaken anything again, ever. In casino with swipe cards instead of chips, they can track your losing streak, and while it's illegal for them to throw you a win right when you'd otherwise quit, they can absolutely make sure someone drops by with a free drink right when you're starting to feel sour. I feel like a random Tamadra or King Gold Dragon in the mail now and then would make people stick around longer, you know?

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

padijun posted:

I have never had a RK not drop during a 2x event

I went 3/5 once during an event. My anecdote wins!

0/15 on skill-ups. I haven't started in on my Wicked Ladies yet, and now I'm afraid to :ohdear:

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

opaopa13 posted:

0/15 on skill-ups. I haven't started in on my Wicked Ladies yet, and now I'm afraid to :ohdear:

0/5 on Wicked Ladies as well, for a grand total of 0/20. :sigh:

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

padijun posted:

really? I would have sworn with a gun to my head that events = guaranteed drops on every floor of the tuesday-friday dungeons

They must have stealth-improved it, then, because I'm sure I'm not the only grumpy old guy who remembers when the wave 4 keeper had 800k HP and the RK had double the defense and Gungnir didn't hit as hard so your main offense was literally Resist Dragon nukes and after all that it was STILL possible for him to not drop. Someone back me up?

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

berserker posted:

Does anyone have an unevolved Shaitan they could put up?

355 567 292

Sent you an invite. Good luck!

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Pointsman posted:

Isn't it Indian/Chinese?

For some reason, in-game the Chinese Pantheon is referred to as "The Elements", even in the US version. Maybe it's a cultural thing, or related to the fact that you don't have "Byakko", you have an "Incarnation of Byakko, Haku"?

As for Hello Kitty vs. Indian/Chinese... the problem is that half the things that come out of the Hello Kitty REM are either completely useless (Kuromi, Badtz-Maru) or a weaker version of a Starter Dragon (Hello Kitty, Keroppi). The only other common monsters are very particular subs: My Melody for a monogreen balance team, and Cinnamoroll for a Genbu/Healer team. Valkitty is neat, but very hard to build around. That only leaves Pompompurin as a clear winner, and good luck rolling him.

Meanwhile, all of the Chinese gods are fantastic as leaders and subs, and everyone but Kirin makes an obviously great sub for herself if you hit a duplicate. Parvati is a toptier sub, Shiva, Indra and Vritra just got buffed, and Lakshmi...

We don't like to talk about Lakshmi.

Kalas posted:

But seriously, I can think of more interesting things to get upset over then an ordering convention a specific message board has used for a year.

I completely agree.

On the other hand, I am all for banishing anyone who insists on referring to "Meimei" or "Karin" to another thread. Why would you ever use the random meaningless girl's name over the memorable and significant sacred animal's name? :argh:

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Eej posted:

Ah yes, those foolish orientals and their "culture", don't they know that "elements" really mean earth, fire, wind and water?

That isn't what I meant, obviously. I meant maybe calling them "Chinese Gods" was somehow offensive. Since we don't have "Incarnation of Thor, Lucas" and "Incarnation of Perseus, Peter", I assumed GungHo singled out that particular Pantheon for a reason, and "because Chinese players asked them not to" was the most obvious one I could come up with v:shobon:v


Wizchine posted:

Because I can actually remember and spell the word Karin correctly. Tough.

Well then, I guess you didn't play Castlevania didn't play Lost Kingdoms didn't watch that one episode of Cowboy Bebop aren't as culturally aware as me :smug:

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

AnonSpore posted:

I think the simpler answer would be because Byakko, Genbu etc. are all animals, so to make them cute girls and therefore sell better they made them avatars instead of the gods themselves.

That's a pretty good explanation, I guess. They still could have named the cute anime girl "Byakko" instead of "Haku", but maybe given them unique names makes them more marketable? It's too bad, though, Horus kicks rear end and I would definitely prefer having more animal gods and fewer kawaii moe-chans on my team.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Wizchine posted:

I have played neither of those games and have not watched that show I'll have culturally aware you know that there are five elements in Chinese philosophy, and they are Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, and Water. :colbert:

I know that, although I wouldn't be tremendously surprised if the reason I know that is yet another video game/anime. I'm well aware that the four beasts refer to four constellations in the four cardinal directions, and in the center you have Kouryu.

padijun posted:

When did NA get the ECO collab? Is skilling up yomi/venus a good idea the next time it comes around?

Back in October. Definitely not a bad idea, since you can probably get the other pieces of whatever bomb you're preparing to drop to under 20 turns as well.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

tzirean posted:

Wasn't going to roll, don't really need anything. But it would be nice to have a Kirin...

Fine, I'm weak. Roll until not gold.

Great Valkyrie (already have a Warrior Rose, Graceful Valkyrie, but duplicate Valks can't be bad)
Red Sonia (she's good, right? Why/how?)
Pandora (what the hell? Never heard of her)
Red Sonia (!)
Archangel Uriel (I suspect he's crap)
Shaitan, the Flame Elemental (I suspect he's also crap)
Shaitan (not gold)

No Chinese goddesses. No idea what the hell to do with these.

Red Sonia is good because 2.5x ATK/RCV is awesome for devils, she has killer awakenings and an awesome skill for any red/dark team. She can put out crazy amounts of damage and effortlessly heal up from anything she can survive. Awakenings make a huge difference for her, though, so it might take a while to really bring her to bear.

Uriel isn't crap: high RCV for a fire monster and lets you clear out Light/Dark orbs at the same time makes him an obvious sub for fire teams. It is a shame that you missed Mystic Fire Dragon and the chance to skill him up, though. Shaitan is crap. He used to be the preferred leader for fighting Tengu, but now there are plenty of better alternatives.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.
Tried Twinlits with Zeus / Echidna / Orochi / D/L Hades / Hera-Is / Zeus. Opened with a mass Water attack + 3 Light + hearts, which left all three Mythlits alive. They gracefully left my Zeuses unbound and at full HP, so I made another little Light attack which still failed to kill even one.

Did I mix up my strategies or something? Something about this dungeon makes me feel so goddamn stupid.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

uXs posted:

No light except for Zeus? That seems fishy.

I just did the math, and I should have definitely killed a Twinlit with the first attack, and again with the second, so I don't know what went wrong. I'll post my numbers when I'm not phoneposting.

I could drop the gravities for Verche/Valkyrie, but I was worried about sweeping floor 1 too easily. I guess that's not a problem!

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.
Ending up screwing up Twinlits again, stoning for stamina, and THIS time managing to one-stone it. Then I ran it twice more, opening with the same combo that worked the first time and ending up getting a random cascade that wiped the first floor. Every time, there's at least one Dubspirit that starts at 2, which is impossible to rush down with Echidna on your team. Losing 60 stamina because the game decided to drop 3 light orbs in is just bullshit.

I'd love to run a bind-immune monster on my team, but I haven't seen a Tamadra in months. I guess I could farm them from Twinlits, if only I had a bind-immune monster :suicide:

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.
Quick question: Can you use Amaterasu's skill if you're at full HP but have bound monsters?

e: Thank god, yes you can.

opaopa13 fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Feb 2, 2014

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

mphill posted:

Anyone know what would have happened if I killed Izanami to finish the dungeon while killing myself on poison?

Also, no drop. :argh:

I don't know for certain, but I'm guessing you'd end up in the same state as when a boss dies to a counterattack skill: you can see if the egg dropped or not, but you have to spend a stone to actually claim it.

Waves 2 and 3 of the Twinlit dungeon really feel like they were designed for a game in which you can manually target with each of your monsters. Watching my light monsters finish off one Dubmythlits and then fling the rest of their attacks at the Tamadra was really painful.

Anyway, 2 stones later, I've got 2 Angelits and a 50% bind resist Amaterasu. Now to decide what to actually do with them, I guess.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Adar posted:

Target the back dubmyth first. When it's down to 3-5 HP, target the front one and land an AOE somewhere.

Yeah, it's not impossible to work around, it's just a shame you have to. The first wave would be easier, too, if you could actually control how your attacks were divided up instead of only being able to guarantee that one Mythlit will get toasted. I guess I can respect the simplicity of the current system, it just feels like this dungeon wasn't designed with it in mind. It normally works extremely well, with only the occasional fumble.

Does back/front actually matter, in your example? I assume the auto-target prefers the Tamadra either way...

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

FirstPlayer posted:

That makes sense; I guess I'll just try it once or twice with my band of misfits and if it doesn't work just wait until the next time Zeus comes around. Thanks for the explanation. :)

Make sure you have a real battle plan before going in: are you going to stall on the first wave? If so, how are you going to reach a state where you CAN stall? How are you going to deal with wave 2 -- poison, armor break, spread cats, delay? Can you burn through the Twinlits before they start raging on you?

Zeus is really excellent, because he can immediately knock out most of wave 1 without necessarily killing everything, after which any damage he takes will turn off his Leader Skill, making it easier to pick off whoever's left without killing everyone. Then for wave 4, you've got double-gravity followed by a guaranteed, utterly non-conditional ATK multiplier. He's basically perfect for the dungeon.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.
Am I crazy for wanting to run Wind Mechdragon until I get a Chaser, just to have a Genbu substitute?

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

MMania posted:

Chasers show up as normal enemies in the Pirate Dragon dungeons, just wait a few months.

Oh, seriously? In that case, yeah, I can wait. Thanks!

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

idiotsavant posted:

Being that I just rolled a Genbu and Wind Mechdragon is up, what kind of team should I run to farm chasers for skillups? Red heavy Bastet, something like Bastet/Gigas/DJ/Ares/Echidna? Or Monored with Ares despite sucky levels?

If you run Ares, be careful with your orb stockpile: it's very possible for a grass demon to bind your whole team on its first turn, which you won't survive. If you get orb-screwed on fire, there goes 50 stamina. Make sure you bring enough orb-changers to deal with them. On the plus side, if you do get to Canopus, you can delay him and burn through his 1 million HP in four turns, or more if you can afford to take a hit or two before using your delay.

If you run Bastet, your main obstacle will almost certainly be the wave 5 chimera. It'll be hard to stall much beforehand, it's got over 800k HP, can start at 1 delay and can almost certainly one-shot you if it chooses to Double Strike. Make sure you can either definitely kill it in one hit or have some kind of backup plan.

I personally went with my monogreen team, so I wouldn't have to deal with fire binding while still being able to eat a hit here and there.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Mirthless posted:

Really, just the fact that he's attacking in the color you're stacking in is enough to make Canopus better than Athena for these teams. Athena's good on her own and doesn't need mandatory participation in off-color higher end 4/2/2s to still be relevant. He's also laughably easy to awaken and skillup, which Athena is decidedly not.

There are times when having a high-ATK sub in another color is nice, either for sniping a particular enemy without sweeping the entire wave, or for picking off the final enemy while still having as many green orbs as possible going into the next. You also can't give Canopus points for being easier to skillup, since he maxes out at the same 15 turns that Athena starts at. That said, Canopus gives you a better bomb and a skill-up awakening, which help solve the two major problems that most monocolor teams face (getting orb-screwed before your skills are ready and not being able to burn a boss down fast enough).

By the way, I noticed on PaDGuide that the Zombie Dragon (from the dragons-only dungeon) is a Green/Dark orb enhancer, which makes sense. It also looks like the dungeon will have Vtrira skill-ups.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Lurkzilla posted:

Question for Mono-Green users:

What's the preferred Athena replacement, Mechdragon or Melody?

Presume I'm willing and able to farm the mechdragon to max it's skill/awakenings.

I can see arguments for either, so wanted to get some opinions before I wasted any stones on the HK REM.

I'd go with Melody for sure. A max-skill Canopus has the same CD as a skill level 1 Melody, but a 30k mass attack is nowhere near as valuable as a 1-turn delay. Melody has worse stats for sure (-1400 HP / -300 ATK, / +150 RCV), and you don't get her +green orbs / +skill-up for free like Canopus, but one extra turn to bomb any boss without a status shield is amazing. A secondary element makes her the better choice whenever you're pinging down massive-defense enemies, and she takes 1 million fewer exp points to max out.

That said, she's not so much better than Canopus that I would go nuts rolling for a monogreen team. Monogreen balanced, perhaps, but in that case the dungeons you're running probably aren't so hard that Canopus wouldn't easily suffice.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Evil Fluffy posted:

I think I'm going to start trying the wind dragon dungeon. I only have the start dragon for a 4/2/2 team though so I'm thinking I might be better off going with a Horus team. Maybe something like Horus/Echidna/SoD Lucifer/Top Droid/Gigas the Great/Horus? Lucifer/Droid cover non-red and then the rest just let me drop a shitload of fire damage on the boss. Or is that overkill for red? If I could get some loving mask drops I'd evo Odin and busty Cu Chu which would let me use those in place of Lucifer/Droid while just needing blue covered if I drop gigas, since echidna would be an insurance policy against lovely boards, especially if multiple demons are up because the 10% bind rate is more like 10% per red element on your team.

If you go with Horus, be absolutely sure your team can one-shot (or have a delay ready) for the Chimera. That thing will not hesitate to drop double attack after your first move. If you can get past him, I think you should have zero problems delaying Canopus and nuking him, regardless of the rest of your team.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Eddain posted:

I'm really bad at calculating damage with all the various modifiers in the game.

Is the 3x damage bonus from a slime king better than 1-2 row awakenings?

The maximum amount of bonus damage a single row awakening can provide is 30%, and then only in the event that you have exactly 18 orbs and arrange them to take up the top, middle and bottom rows. With a little orb-changing, you can easily hit at least two rows, which with two row awakenings gives you 40% more damage for the turn. Not bad, especially if you manage to squeeze some more multipliers in there (orb enhance, Norse active).

But very, very few dungeons in the game require that sort of small, constant boost compared to just tripling your damage for a turn and annihilating the boss before he annihilates you. If you can stall for the slime, go with the slime.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Eej posted:

Come on Devil subtype Viper Orochi!

Who am I kidding it'll just be Kirin, Haku and someone else.

Clearly, Orochi needs a W/W/W/W/W/W/W/W ultimate.

PaulC posted:

Letting surveys decide this sort of thing is downright stupid from a game balance perspective. People are going to vote for the strongest monsters, making them even stronger. Everything else gets even worse by comparison.

And since new content has to be difficult enough to challenge the ultimate-evolved skilled-up Hakus, your Karin / Genbu will stand even less of a chance going forward.

At least it's not the only way for things to get new ultimates, and so far there haven't been any dungeons that appear to be balanced around having one particular REM God. There's plenty of new content that the JP megawhales stomp on the moment it's out, and so far they don't seem to mind.

ReidRansom posted:

e: you know, I'd vote Echidna even though she just got an ultimate if I thought there was a chance she'd get a dark sub or maybe a devil type.

Here's my idea: let players bid stones to decide what Echidna's new subcolor will be. Whichever color gets the most stones wins!

Hire me, GungHo.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Vincent Valentine posted:

I'll take the 50% chance for awakening.

Instead of just hitting up Rainbow Stone Magic Dragon, or even one of the T2 dungeons if you were truly desperate? You're crazy. It'll take more stamina to get the necessary Light Dubspirits than the Gold Dragons, if my experience with the Mythic Stone dungeons is at all reliable.


PaulC posted:

Seriously? There really has been a bit of power creep huh

Take a look at the monster book, and you can see just how much power creep there's been. The Resist Dragons used to stop after evolving twice. The Mystic Knights, Healer Girls, Golems and Heartbreakers all stopped after a single evolution. There were no ultimates for the Double Dragons or the Greek 1.0 gods. Look at Zeus at #187, then try to put together a Zeus Descended team using only monsters that come before him. Would you prefer 50% Light Resist, or 2x ATK?

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZamuSFeppjg

:stare:

That first move blew my mind, as well as every move after that. Good lord.

opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

ImsaKidd posted:

I have ~50 unevolved light pengdra sitting in my box, and a neverending need for light exp. Is it worth stoning for gold dragons? I have 100 stam if that matters.

Are golds the same as normal jewel dragons, where you're guaranteed a drop every level? It's been so long since we've had them, I really don't remember :(

Yes, and there are seven waves instead of five.

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opaopa13
Jul 25, 2007

EB: i'm in a rocket pack and i am about to blast off into space. it should be sweet.

Infinite Karma posted:

Does anyone else have a Super-Ra lineup?

I'm glad you asked:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-vgTnI9zac

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