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Dar
Oct 22, 2000

Mirthless posted:

Narrow class variety and only 4 characters. I didn't like that part of the games either, for what it's worth.

Yes exactly this.

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dhamster
Aug 5, 2013

I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Fintilgin posted:

Now that I'm really enjoying myself, I'm preparing myself for the news that sales weren't good enough for M&MXI. If that's the case, at least we got one last real Might & Magic. :3:

http://steamcharts.com/app/238750#7d

It's around #33 or so right now in the most played games on steam. Given that it's a niche title was probably developed on a shoestring budget I'd say that's not bad. But who knows how that translates to Ubisoft's bottom line. Cautiously optimistic on this one.

Dropbear posted:

They did? I'm not sure if the version I played was patched up or something, but I don't think I ran into any - then again, it's been ages since I played the Xeen games. M&M 7 & 8, now those I had tons of similar performance issues with, especially since GPUs (3d-cards, as they were called back here) were a new concept and especially the M&M games seemed to have a pretty hard time dealing with them.

https://sites.google.com/site/sergroj/mm

This guy's patches are supposed to help quite a bit when it comes to running the older MM games on newer machines.

Markkei
Aug 11, 2010
I equipped my crusader with two relics with 24 fire and 24 prime damage retaliation and it's hilarious when she gets hit by those ravenous ghouls. All I see is an explosion of numbers from those relics and the expert shield passive coupled with the Starsilver blade totaling over 300 damage!

drink slurm
Feb 18, 2010

Anime and Weed, what else do you need?
my method for ravenous ghouls is as follows:

-runepriest casts might buff and celestial armor
-windsword and blademaster go to town on one
-if an attack misses or the ghoul gets to <50% hp have the freemage use that air push on it.
-repeat, cry.

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007

I usually kept stoneskin up while I was fighting them. It lasts a long time with good earth magic skill, and giving your party an extra 20-30 armor can make a huge difference.

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

Stanley Pain posted:

You either block or don't. 3 attacks vs 3 block chances happen as an individual roll for each attack attempt. If you have 3 blocks and 4 attacks incoming from the same mob, you'll only get 3 block attempts.
I don't think that's right, I think you make your block % roll against every attack until you hit the cap. It's not "number of block attempts", it's "number of blocks".

alarumklok
Jun 30, 2012

You make 3 block attempts against 3 attacks, and after that you're vulnerable, whether you blocked all 3 or failed all attempts. Defender's promotion explicitly allows blocks to keep going like you're saying until you have actually BLOCKED 3 attacks.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

Mirthless posted:

Narrow class variety and only 4 characters. I didn't like that part of the games either, for what it's worth.

I love VI and VII to bits, but I would have loved if they had the six party setup that the older games had. Narrow class choice doesn't bother me as much, because a few of the classes in Xeen really blended together and felt kinda samey if I recall correctly. But it's literally been decades since I played them, and was about 7 besides, so I could be wrong!

Silvergun1000
Sep 17, 2007

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
My favorite bug (or just how the engine worked) in the XEEN games was how enemies would not attack you until you see them. As a result, out was a good idea to walk backwards through dungeons full of powerful ranged monsters as they would never get a chance to shoot you until you close to melee. I remember this being really handy in the Dragon Pharoah's pyramid.

Also, despite it looking like rear end, Might and Magic 7 is one of my all time favorite games. I actually love the class system in that since the classes are all very distinct and there is an element of strategy in how you make your party. It felt like with 6 party members, you had to make fewer choices with your composition, and the classes themselves felt more bland. All that said though, World of XEEN is still probably the best game in the series.

-Blackadder-
Jan 2, 2007

Game....Blouses.
So how are you guys allocating your stat points and how is that affecting your results?

For example it's been said that getting to 150 mana ASAP is a good idea but are people pumping spirit and mysticism or just spirit, or just mysticism? And how important is pumping magic to increase magic damage vs putting points into your nuke spell line?

And regarding melee how important is perception? Or vitality? Also, again, are people getting most of their weapon damage increases from putting points into their chosen weapon line or do you want to also dump as many points as you can into Strength?

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007

I didn't end up putting points into perception on my meleers until later in the game. I did end up dumping some then though. I would say it probably averaged out to a split like +2 str/+1 per/+1 vit per level. My caster probably averaged somewhere around +2 mag/+1 spi/+1 vit per level. I focused more on spirit at the start, and pumped up the others later. My druid had master level mysticism, and ended up somewhere around 300 mana. I also had at least expert level endurance on all of my characters.

I am not saying that any of that is necessarily ideal, but it was enough to get me through the game on warrior. If anything, things got kind of easy starting in the low to mid 20s. Once you get your unlockable classes and grandmastery, you start shredding things. MVPs were probably my two elves. Blademaster for doing great damage and cutting people up, and druid for keeping everybody standing.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jan 30, 2014

dhamster
Aug 5, 2013

I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Filthy Monkey posted:

I didn't end up putting points into perception on my meleers until later in the game. I did end up dumping some then though. I would say it probably averaged out to a split like +2 str/+1 per/+1 vit per level. My caster probably averaged somewhere around +2 mag/+1 spi/+1 vit per level. I focused more on spirit at the start, and pumped up the others later. My druid had master level mysticism, and ended up somewhere around 300 mana. I also had at least expert level endurance on all of my characters.

I am not saying that any of that is necessarily ideal, but it was enough to get me through the game on warrior. If anything, things got kind of easy starting in the low to mid 20s. Once you get your unlockable classes and grandmastery, you start shredding things. MVPs were probably my two elves. Blademaster for doing great damage and cutting people up, and druid for keeping everybody standing.

Along the same vein, is it ever worth pumping Destiny? Maybe with a dagger blademaster?

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

dhamster posted:

Along the same vein, is it ever worth pumping Destiny? Maybe with a dagger blademaster?

After I got my melee to a decent amount of perception I started doing 2 might/1 destiny/1 vitality every level, sometimes 2 might/2 destiny on my dagger blademaster. I ended up with 25-30 perception on both of them, which was enough to open all the secret doors I found requiring it, and though I started missing more in the final dungeon I had relatively few problems in the rest of the game. You would probably also want to put more points into destiny for a mace user, since they stun on crits, or an axe user for additional bleed procs.

The Joe Man
Apr 7, 2007

Flirting With Apathetic Waitresses Since 1984
Speaking of secret doors, what are the stats I need to bump to open them? Just the first 3 or is it all of them?

Getting really sick of bumping into walls in the first castle. Want to get that detect secrets companion (or the blessing) ASAP.

-Blackadder-
Jan 2, 2007

Game....Blouses.

Bussamove posted:

After I got my melee to a decent amount of perception I started doing 2 might/1 destiny/1 vitality every level, sometimes 2 might/2 destiny on my dagger blademaster. I ended up with 25-30 perception on both of them, which was enough to open all the secret doors I found requiring it, and though I started missing more in the final dungeon I had relatively few problems in the rest of the game. You would probably also want to put more points into destiny for a mace user, since they stun on crits, or an axe user for additional bleed procs.

Yeah, I'm still kind of set on mace for my Barbarian so I was considering how many points I wanted to put into destiny. How does destiny help dagger Bladedmasters in particuluar, by the way?

dhamster
Aug 5, 2013

I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.
A Wot I Think on MMX came out today.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/29/might-and-magic-x-review/

I'd been waiting to see RPS weigh in. I think they really hit the nail on the head with both the praise and the criticisms.

The Joe Man posted:

Speaking of secret doors, what are the stats I need to bump to open them? Just the first 3 or is it all of them?

Getting really sick of bumping into walls in the first castle. Want to get that detect secrets companion (or the blessing) ASAP.

I think all of them require either Might, Magic or Perception. I saw on a forum that the most advanced secrets require 58 in a stat to open, after bonuses. How high can stats be buffed with magic? +10? Also, I thought there was some early quest hireling that is supposed to detect secret doors. Maybe I'm mistaken on that, but I remember having one with me when I was doing the Lighthouse.

vvvv Right, it's Rosalie, and she's temporary

dhamster fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jan 30, 2014

Epic Doctor Fetus
Jul 23, 2003

IchGestalt posted:

Go to "Might & Magic X - Legacy\Might and Magic X Legacy_Data\StreamingAssets\StaticData" and open up the "CharacterClassStaticData.csv"

Merc is StaticID 1. Under the title GrandmasterSkills, add in "6," before the the other three numbers. Then go to the ExpertSkills and delete the 6 in there.

Merc now has Grandmaster sword. If you want to know more about the skill numbers, open up "Skills.csv" and read through that. You can edit them all pretty easily from in there. Unsure on issues later in game, but it's working.

Dude, thanks for this! Two-handed axe grandmastery, here I come!

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

-Blackadder- posted:

Yeah, I'm still kind of set on mace for my Barbarian so I was considering how many points I wanted to put into destiny. How does destiny help dagger Bladedmasters in particuluar, by the way?

Daggers attack an astounding amount of times per round, seven when you GM both daggers and dual-wielding. Higher destiny means that many more crits on your blender of attacks.

On the secret door front, the symbol that lights up when you look at the door determines what stat you need to open it. The crack is might, the gears are perception, and the circle with a dot in the center is magic. There's also an element of randomality to them as well, you can fail multiple times and then open it successfully with the same character.

Apoffys
Sep 5, 2011
I think the "detect secrets" hireling is Rosalie from the chapel, but she's just with you for the duration of her quest.

alarumklok
Jun 30, 2012

Daggers also have a very high crit damage percent while low damage, so critting more often is going to get your flurry of pool noodle thwaps into foam LARP sword territory at least. Daggers have 70% crit damage, compared to swords and spears at 50%.

Unoriginal One
Aug 5, 2008

dhamster posted:

I think all of them require either Might, Magic or Perception. I saw on a forum that the most advanced secrets require 58 in a stat to open, after bonuses. How high can stats be buffed with magic? +10? Also, I thought there was some early quest hireling that is supposed to detect secret doors. Maybe I'm mistaken on that, but I remember having one with me when I was doing the Lighthouse.

My Archmage's Eagle Eye can boost Perception by 29 points for 15 turns, but that's with 132 Magic and an effective 37 points in GM Air.

As for finding secrets, I think it's been mentioned that there's a dog in the woods you can pick up that'll do the job. Failing that, there's always Malassa's Blessing, for all that it's late-ish mid-game at best.

Geop
Oct 26, 2007

So comparing GM swords vs GM daggers for a blade dancer, swords would be the best bet? I've heard that there aren't any known dagger relics, and while daggers sound rad, wouldn't swords leave them in the dust as the game nears the end?

alarumklok
Jun 30, 2012

Daggers have the benefit of much more damage from mandate of heaven or agony, and they eat blocks for the rest of your swings or any of your other characters. 7 swings against 4 block attempts is at most 4 blocks and 3 hits, followed by unblocked allies. 3 sword swings is at most 3 blocks, and 1 block left over for your hunter to whiff to. Swords get two relics, which do more much higher base damage than daggers. I'm just about at act 4 with my second party, which features a dagger blademaster, and he's still hitting things for half their health, so if it does fall off, it's got to be like at the last dungeon if at all.

Bussamove
Feb 25, 2006

alarumklok posted:

Daggers have the benefit of much more damage from mandate of heaven or agony, and they eat blocks for the rest of your swings or any of your other characters. 7 swings against 4 block attempts is at most 4 blocks and 3 hits, followed by unblocked allies. 3 sword swings is at most 3 blocks, and 1 block left over for your hunter to whiff to. Swords get two relics, which do more much higher base damage than daggers. I'm just about at act 4 with my second party, which features a dagger blademaster, and he's still hitting things for half their health, so if it does fall off, it's got to be like at the last dungeon if at all.

It really doesn't fall off at all. Daggers are ridiculous, even without relics.

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007

I went the double relic sword route, and had no problem chopping off huge swaths of life. Doing a quick load to my last hard save, right before I left on the ship for the final chapter, I was hitting the shades on the dock for somewhere around 500-550 damage per full attack. That is assuming that all of the swings hit, and that none of them crit. That doesn't take into account extra fire damage being spread around to groups from the dragon flame tongue.

Start critting, and it quickly gets ridiculous.


My relic-using maurader was more in the 300 range, and my defender was in the 150 range. Defender did get a relic axe later, in the last dungeon, but this save was before he picked it up.

I don't have a dagger-wielding guy to compare to. Once the blademaster chopping machine came fully online with grandmastery the game got kind of easy. I suspect blademasters are just really good though, no matter what you pick.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jan 30, 2014

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.

Dropbear posted:

Also, someone asked about the paladin quest with the stone disc - has anyone figured out how to return the disc? I can't complete it either. I read you need to give the disc to the ghost after finding 4 pages; the option just doesn't appear for me. Does it just not activate if you don't actually have the quest for it (I don't have a crusader)?

Yeah, a little Googling suggests that you can only complete that quest if you actually have a crusader in your party. It seems like all the class promotion quests work that way; it's just less obvious that that's a class promotion quest.

Psykmoe posted:

I really wish Mercenary got at least one Grandmastery in a weapon, but I've been making do with a sword and board build. Getting Retaliatory strikes from both shield Master and Dodge Grandmaster and the occasional bonus swing from sword crits (and Destiny is high) at least means my Merc usually swings a lot, which sort of makes up for missing all that extra damage from a Grandmastery, I guess.

I *think* this is the most extra attack opportunities you can squeeze out of a class but I'm not convinced it makes up for the extra attack value and huge damage boost from a GM weapon on something like a Defender, who can GM axes AND get additional party protection from the Shield Grandmastery.

And if you try a 2h or dual wield build? You're just a bad damage dealer who can GM medium armor and dodge. :shrug:

I enjoy gimmicky builds like "max extra attacks" so maybe GM weapons are just TOO good to make a melee class without them very good.

Good thing I started on Adventurer where it's not holding me back much :v:

I think the best late-game Mercenary tactic is probably mace abuse: wield a mace and take advantage of the promoted class special ability and Grandmaster Warfare techniques to give you a bunch of crits that also automatically stun your enemies.

Arkeus
Jul 21, 2013
I... think i just got a gamebreaking bug.
So i did rock skull, and was suprised not to find the air shard. I assumed it was because that guy gave it in exchange of his sword or something. But apparently it's really there- but i am pretty sure i checked EVERYTHING there (i got the lever that makes the two bridges fall down).
Only thing i can think of is this chest at the end of of the first level, but i think i already emptied it (it's open). However, it's still glowing as well as open. I wonder if my inventory was full or something when i got it open, which made me 'refuse' the shard.
:(
Anyone help?

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007

It is past the part that requires the water blessing.

Arkeus
Jul 21, 2013

Filthy Monkey posted:

It is past the part that requires the water blessing.

Huh... i don't know where that part is. Is it on level 2? I guess i'll go back there then.

EDIT: Can't find it :-(

I still have that opened chest that glow on the level 1 though...

Arkeus fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Jan 30, 2014

Unoriginal One
Aug 5, 2008
Just finished on Warrior, party was Defender/Barbarian/Bladedancer/Free Mage. In spite of my mage only having 1 point in Light and Earth, the endgame wasn't too bad outside of every other mob having damage reflect and random criticals out of nowhere potentially one-shotting her.

Metos
Nov 25, 2005

Sup Ladies

Arkeus posted:

Huh... i don't know where that part is. Is it on level 2? I guess i'll go back there then.

EDIT: Can't find it :-(

I still have that opened chest that glow on the level 1 though...

It's in one of the tiny chests on the floor one tile left of the actual chest where the mermaid boss was, you have to be facing straight into the wall and it'll zoom down. It's probably the worst instance of hiding a must-have item in the game, I would've never found it either if it wasn't for this thread saying it was in that dungeon.

Waltzing Along
Jun 14, 2008

There's only one
Human race
Many faces
Everybody belongs here

Metos posted:

It's in one of the tiny chests on the floor one tile left of the actual chest where the mermaid boss was, you have to be facing straight into the wall and it'll zoom down. It's probably the worst instance of hiding a must-have item in the game, I would've never found it either if it wasn't for this thread saying it was in that dungeon.

Yep. I was reading this thread and saw the comment about the shard. I had just finished that place and saved but didn't get the shard. Went back in and double checked everything and found it.

THE PWNER
Sep 7, 2006

by merry exmarx
"Nah I don't need these ward spells before doing the elemental forge"

Don't be me, I had to run back to town and sit through loading screens like 4 times.

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

by Fluffdaddy

Apoffys posted:

Thanks, I was running a not activated version (because gently caress Uplay, that's why), that was probably the problem. Downloaded the Uplay-version from Steam now, but I can't get the savegames imported...

The savegames are in "Save002.sav" format (plus a "saves.ini"), while the Uplay-version seems to save things in multiple files with different names ("2.save" + "2.save.metadata"). I've tried just renaming the files to match Uplay's system, but no luck. Any suggestions?

Starting over is the only way. Old and new saves aren't compatible. :(


You're not that far in thankfully so it shouldn't be to painful.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
What the heck is the point of hunter's expert air magic? Considering that bladedancers also have a single expert magic skill (albeit one that is much better for a non-mage), hunters don't really seem like hybrids at all.

Apoffys
Sep 5, 2011

Stanley Pain posted:

Starting over is the only way. Old and new saves aren't compatible. :(


You're not that far in thankfully so it shouldn't be to painful.

Thanks, but I'm too far in to bother starting over now. Thankfully there's a workaround (fast travel between the stables in Sorpigal and Seahaven). Hopefully I don't find any other serious bugs...

dhamster
Aug 5, 2013

I got into my car and ate my chalupa with a feeling of accomplishment.

Serious Frolicking posted:

What the heck is the point of hunter's expert air magic? Considering that bladedancers also have a single expert magic skill (albeit one that is much better for a non-mage), hunters don't really seem like hybrids at all.

They can get to Master Air, I think the combat classes are limited to at most Expert in a magic school. Crusader and Ranger can get Master Air too, though, and they have an extra Mastery/Grandmastery to go along with it. Most of the orc classes seem to be tooled more in favor of might than magic, so from a flavor standpoint it makes sense. In exchange the Hunter gets some good durability skills (GM Dodge, Endurance AND Arcane Discipline), and some nice utility with Harpoon. It would have been neat if they gave him something unique like Master Water or an additional Expert school, but maybe there was a balance reason for this.

Ineffable
Jul 4, 2012
I'm about to pick this game up, but I was hoping to get some advice about my party. Right now I'm thinking about running a Bladedancer, a Barbarian, a Freemage and a Runepriest. Is this setup good? Would I be better off with a druid and not a runepriest?

Couple of questions beyond that, should all of my casters be using focuses, or will my runepriest be able to use a mace and a shield effectively?

How important is grandmastery over mastery when it comes to spell schools? I suppose what I mean is, am I better off getting grandmastery in a couple schools or mastery in several? I'm thinking particularly about my freemage: is it going to be worthwhile to get mastery in water magic? Grandmastery in air seems a given, but is grandmastery in primordial or dark magic worth the points over mastery?

Sorry about all the questions; I can't play the game for another few days so I'm sort of obsessing over my party setup.

THE PWNER
Sep 7, 2006

by merry exmarx

Ineffable posted:

I'm about to pick this game up, but I was hoping to get some advice about my party. Right now I'm thinking about running a Bladedancer, a Barbarian, a Freemage and a Runepriest. Is this setup good? Would I be better off with a druid and not a runepriest?

You don't need a dedicated healer/buffer or anything. For example my party is Crusader/Runepriest/Hunter/Bladedancer, and the Runepriest and Crusader are both built as hybrids and that's enough to keep the party alive. Could do the same thing with Freemage/Runepriest I'm sure. My Bladedancer also has a little bit of earth magic which comes in handy sometimes.

quote:

Couple of questions beyond that, should all of my casters be using focuses, or will my runepriest be able to use a mace and a shield effectively?

Focuses doesn't seem to influence anything related to spellcasting. My Runepriest uses a mace. Maybe later on, focuses have a higher chance of having beneficial caster stats or something?

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Rogue AI Goddess
May 10, 2012

I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees.
That was a joke... unless..?

Serious Frolicking posted:

What the heck is the point of hunter's expert air magic?
I guess the train of thought was along the lines of "hunters shoot stuff, shooting stuff scales with perception, Eagle Eye buffs perception and requires expert Air, so let's give hunters expert Air".

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