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So, what did people take as the big themes/commentary from the Peripheral? One of the things that has interested me about his last three trilogies is the way that they honed in on a specific aspect of the decade that would end up being core to the zeitgeist of the time... in the 80s it was all about fear of Japan, corporate rule, and the rise of computers, then for the 90s it was about social media/web 2.0 stuff, and for 2000's it was all about shadow wars and spooks. I think the dude is pretty prescient, and it makes me wonder what aspect of the Peripheral is him talking about modern themes. My interpretation is that the "jackpot" and the whole idea of climate change and massive disruption, as well as the mention of post-humanity and the crazy physics of the server are the things that he's pulling out as the areas where there will be a lot of action in the near future.
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Nov 18, 2014 00:24
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The major theme of The Peripheral by far was "nostalgia". It's everywhere, in every character. Selling the past, buying the past, fetishizing the past, hating the past, being defined by the past, etc.
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Nov 18, 2014 03:42
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Notahippie posted:So, what did people take as the big themes/commentary from the Peripheral? One of the things that has interested me about his last three trilogies is the way that they honed in on a specific aspect of the decade that would end up being core to the zeitgeist of the time... in the 80s it was all about fear of Japan, corporate rule, and the rise of computers, then for the 90s it was about social media/web 2.0 stuff, and for 2000's it was all about shadow wars and spooks. I think the dude is pretty prescient, and it makes me wonder what aspect of the Peripheral is him talking about modern themes. My interpretation is that the "jackpot" and the whole idea of climate change and massive disruption, as well as the mention of post-humanity and the crazy physics of the server are the things that he's pulling out as the areas where there will be a lot of action in the near future. There's a ton of little/not so little "goddamnit people stop loving up the world" commentary, but the big theme I got was the idea that maybe our bodies are just... Wait for it... Peripheral. Previously they're the center of everything but with our/the future's ridiculous technology the body becomes far less important, both to our sense of self as well as to our interaction with the world (which has itself moved more and more away from the purely physical neighborhood of yesteryear).
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Nov 18, 2014 05:31
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builds character posted:There's a ton of little/not so little "goddamnit people stop loving up the world" commentary, but the big theme I got was the idea that maybe our bodies are just... Wait for it... Peripheral. Previously they're the center of everything but with our/the future's ridiculous technology the body becomes far less important, both to our sense of self as well as to our interaction with the world (which has itself moved more and more away from the purely physical neighborhood of yesteryear). Yeah that's another one. At the end of the book, you have Wilf and Rainey being happy with "a low-bandwidth experience" because it's not about being there, there. "There is no there, there." It's all coming full circle.
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Nov 18, 2014 07:30
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precision posted:Yeah that's another one. At the end of the book, you have Wilf and Rainey being happy with "a low-bandwidth experience" because it's not about being there, there. He's loved 3d printing for a long time and a bit this feels like the culmination of that particular love only this time it's not just ridiculous science fiction it's more like the Internet was in neuromancer. Maybe not 100%, but still conceptually correct about the size and importance.
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Nov 20, 2014 02:21
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Notahippie posted:So, what did people take as the big themes/commentary from the Peripheral? One of the things that has interested me about his last three trilogies is the way that they honed in on a specific aspect of the decade that would end up being core to the zeitgeist of the time... in the 80s it was all about fear of Japan, corporate rule, and the rise of computers, then for the 90s it was about social media/web 2.0 stuff, and for 2000's it was all about shadow wars and spooks. I think the dude is pretty prescient, and it makes me wonder what aspect of the Peripheral is him talking about modern themes. My interpretation is that the "jackpot" and the whole idea of climate change and massive disruption, as well as the mention of post-humanity and the crazy physics of the server are the things that he's pulling out as the areas where there will be a lot of action in the near future. Yeah, the jackpot was a nice way of making the inevitable breakdown nonspecific. It's not 100% climate change; it's not 100% limitless capialism; etc. One thing I thought was interesting was the 3rd-worlding (I think Gibson used that word in the postscript otherwise I dunno where I got it cause I'm not that clever) the past. Third-worlding, as a verb. I know it's hella corny to get into what books are "about, you know, man?" but really, it's about this, now (as Sci-Fi always should be). Rich people will thirdworld your neighborhood if you don't stop them.
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Nov 23, 2014 03:32
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Snapchat A Titty posted:Yeah, the jackpot was a nice way of making the inevitable breakdown nonspecific. It's not 100% climate change; it's not 100% limitless capialism; etc. Ash explicitly uses the term when describing why the past continua are known as 'stubs'.
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Nov 24, 2014 19:55
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I'm on a bit of a Gibson kick of late. I got the audiobook Count Zero, and then decided to do a re-read of Pattern Recognition, as I haven't read it since I was a teenager. It's interesting to see the two stories set side-by-side, since the art-hunter plotline is so similar. But I love/am loving each story for its own reasons. Count Zero is definitely more of a wordbuilding story than Neuromancer, and I like the way the plotlines are slowly coming to intertwine with one another. Pattern Recognition, meanwhile, is just a gorgeous, hypnotic cultural snapshot (it is ridiculous how much Pynchon's Bleeding Edge echoes it). I'm going to take a bit of a breather before diving into Spook Country. I haven't read any other part of the Blue Ant Trilogy, so I'm really looking forward to it.
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Dec 8, 2014 17:28
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It took me a good 100+ pages before I had any loving idea what in the hell was going on but now that I'm on page ~300 I can't put it down. This is the first time I've read one of his novels as it came out and it is really exciting to see him do what he does (day-after-tomorrow type stuff) with the emerging technology and political situations of today; the world I know and have interests in. The only bummer about the book is that since it took me so long to have any concept of what was happening, I feel like I missed a lot of the thrust of the beginning of the book. It felt very much like I was just staring out into space for a long time.
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Dec 9, 2014 15:26
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One of my favorite moments in The Peripheral is how there's no real hint or mention of two characters being gay until the very end of the book, and even then it's not explicitly stated, just made very obvious by context.
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Dec 10, 2014 02:20
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Continuing my (slow) readthrough of the Blue Ant Trilogy, I just finished Spook Country. Unfortunately, this one didn't grab me near as much as Pattern Recognition. I know Gibson loves his tripartite plotlines that converge together at the end, but this didn't have the breakneck excitement of Count Zero. All the characters felt so detached from the action, the stakes felt so low. Even the bad guy, Brown, didn't seem so much threatening as aggravated. I know Gibson is going for a more contemplative, world-weary tone with this trilogy, but the novel felt pretty lifeless overall. I've heard Zero History is amazing, though, so I look forward to cracking into that one.
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Dec 30, 2014 20:28
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I just finished Zero History, and man, that was satisfying. Hollis and Milgrim felt way more complex and real this time around than in the last book, and I loved the way it ties back into the earlier books Cayce becoming a kind of successor to the Footage in Gabriel Hounds was both completely badass and totally poignant. I think Pattern Recognition is still my favourite of the three, as it feels more mournfully lyrical, but this book managed to be a funny, interesting, affecting thriller, and I loved it.
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Jan 7, 2015 01:47
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One of my regrets in life is somehow ending up reading Pattern Recognition last. I remember liking Zero History okay, then opening up Pattern Recognition and thinking, "Hmm? Uh... oh, poo poo, I hosed up, didn't I."
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Jan 7, 2015 02:21
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I finished Peripheral yesterday and I really liked it! Crossposting from the Just Finished thread:Gertrude Perkins posted:I read the first 3/4 of this in short 15-30 page bursts, which in hindsight was probably a bad idea. The plot felt really dense and I got confused as to which characters were which and other pretty silly issues. However, once everything started coming together, once the two timelines start to make sense in relation to each other and the bigger picture was revealed, I was pretty hooked. The near- and further-future tech Gibson describes is both worryingly and intriguingly plausible, and while a lot of the tone seems downbeat (especially with regard to the "jackpot"), I found myself cautiously optimistic by the end. I think I'll need to read this again sometime to fully appreciate it now that I know all the details. One ((potentially majorly) spoilery!!!) thing I was puzzled about, because I think I missed a significant paragraph somewhere: Lowbeer and Griff are the same person, or rather, Griff becomes Lowbeer in that potential future? Lowbeer is referred to as 'she', but Griff as 'he'...so is future/present-Griff trans, then? Or is it some other non-gender thing I didn't catch the first time?
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Jan 22, 2015 00:07
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I didn't catch a specific statement about that, and I guess it's a testament to the times that I totally shrugged off the non-explanation. (I may have missed one). It's a thing that happens now, why shouldn't it happen in the future? Same with offhand the gay pairing at the end.
Prolonged Panorama fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 02:06
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Prolonged Priapism posted:I didn't catch a specific statement about that, and I guess it's a testament to the times that I totally shrugged off the non-explanation. (I may have missed one). It's a thing that happens now, why shouldn't it happen in the future? Same with offhand gay pairing at the end. It's a world where people can transform themselves into double-dicked salt-beasts, so I expect sex reassignment is rather more common and trivial in the future depicted. I just assumed that was what she had done.
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Jan 22, 2015 02:09
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Gertrude Perkins posted:One ((potentially majorly) spoilery!!!) thing I was puzzled about, because I think I missed a significant paragraph somewhere: Lowbeer and Griff are the same person, or rather, Griff becomes Lowbeer in that potential future? Lowbeer is referred to as 'she', but Griff as 'he'...so is future/present-Griff trans, then? Or is it some other non-gender thing I didn't catch the first time? I thought it was pretty explicit in chapter 103, Sushi Barn: “You’re her,” she said, looking up, meeting [Griff's] pale eyes. Not that crazy cartoon blue. Not blue at all, but widening now. A woman laughed, tables away. His hand lowered the tablet, came to rest on the table, and for the first time since the end of the ride back from Pickett’s, she thought she might be about to cry. He swallowed. Blinked. “Really, I’ll be someone else.” “You don’t become her?” “Our lives were identical, until Lev’s first communication was received here. But this is no longer their past, so she isn’t who I’ll become. We diverged, however imperceptibly at first, when that message was received. By the time she first contacted me, there were already bits of my life she was unfamiliar with. [...] “You’re not named Lowbeer?” “Ainsley James Gryffyd Lowbeer Holdsworth,” he said. “My mother’s maiden name. She was allergic to hyphenation.” He took a blue handkerchief from a jacket pocket. Not Homes blue but darker, almost black. Dabbed his eyes. “Pardon me,” he said. “A bit emotional.” He looked at her. “You’re the first person I’ve discussed this with, other than Ainsley.” [in chapter 105, Static in Your Bones we get Lowbeer's side of it] Excerpt From: William Gibson. “The Peripheral.” iBooks.
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Jan 22, 2015 12:22
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Ahh, I guess I did blank a little on that part. Neat!
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Jan 22, 2015 20:28
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There's also a part, I think, where someone asks Griff something like "When did you know?" and Griff also says something about how there are "more like me" working in high levels of the government.
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Jan 27, 2015 17:49
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My initial thinking was that the timeline divergence resulted in the same person being born one gender in one timeline, the other in the other, but that passage especially made it clearer that Lowbeer was trans. I liked how that and the homosexuality of two of the characters was a pretty trivial plot point, added a lot to the realism of the world Gibson created.
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Jan 27, 2015 21:39
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Gibson, the older he gets, seems to be getting so much more polite about sex and sexuality, like if you go back and read the sex scene near the beginning of Mona Lisa Overdrive, he would never write something like that today. Not that it's a bad scene, it's actually really well done and makes you feel appropriately horrible for Mona and her life, but modern day Gibson is very different. I also like that he basically writes "happily ever after" at the end of his stories these days. He strikes me as being very un-cynical, which is kinda funny.
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Jan 27, 2015 22:22
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precision posted:Gibson, the older he gets, seems to be getting so much more polite about sex and sexuality, like if you go back and read the sex scene near the beginning of Mona Lisa Overdrive, he would never write something like that today. Not that it's a bad scene, it's actually really well done and makes you feel appropriately horrible for Mona and her life, but modern day Gibson is very different. I also like that he basically writes "happily ever after" at the end of his stories these days. He strikes me as being very un-cynical, which is kinda funny. Yeah, between that scene, which is really powerful and accurate, I think, and a scene in "Dogfight", older Gibson definitely has an effective vulgarity about sex. The way that he writes about substance abuse is probably the thing that hooks me the most about his writing. He clearly has an intimate understanding of habitual self-destructive behavior. I had actually started Mona Lisa Overdrive and was really enjoying it, but someone got me The Peripheral for Christmas so I switched over to it so that I could join the discussion on here. I'm about 2/3 of the way through it I think. It's good, but definitely not his best, I think. It reminds me a lot of Pattern Recognition, but not as good. Although it obviously has a lot more scifi elements than PR, so I'm still curious to see where it all goes. Most frustraighting thing so far is that no one in the future seems to know any more about their own setting than I do? Who are the Patchers? How come the whole opening of the book was about that and it feels like I've been reading a totally different book since? They are getting ready to go to Daedra's party though, so probably if I just shut up and read more...
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Jan 27, 2015 22:36
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Snak posted:Yeah, between that scene, which is really powerful and accurate, I think, and a scene in "Dogfight", older Gibson definitely has an effective vulgarity about sex. The way that he writes about substance abuse is probably the thing that hooks me the most about his writing. He clearly has an intimate understanding of habitual self-destructive behavior. I had actually started Mona Lisa Overdrive and was really enjoying it, but someone got me The Peripheral for Christmas so I switched over to it so that I could join the discussion on here. I'm about 2/3 of the way through it I think. It's good, but definitely not his best, I think. It reminds me a lot of Pattern Recognition, but not as good. Although it obviously has a lot more scifi elements than PR, so I'm still curious to see where it all goes. Most frustraighting thing so far is that no one in the future seems to know any more about their own setting than I do? Who are the Patchers? How come the whole opening of the book was about that and it feels like I've been reading a totally different book since? They are getting ready to go to Daedra's party though, so probably if I just shut up and read more... Don't judge a book by its cover (and first 2/3). I definitely needed to read it all the way through (twice, shut up) before I understood all the stuff that was going on in The Peripheral.
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Jan 27, 2015 23:06
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Finally finished The Peripheral. I liked it for sure. The setting was so rich, I was kind of expecting a little more from the story itself. Griff being Lowbeer blindsided me, mostly because I was expecting Flynne to be Lowbeer. The patchers thing never turned into anything, but it felt like it was practically from a different book anyway... Daedra/Hamad/Aelita's scheme was pretty pedestrian (basically a Lex Luthor plot), which is okay I guess. I really liked how "post-cyberpunk" the setting was. Now I'm really curious about Gibson's history with addiction/addicts, since both it's not only a common theme in his writing, but both Neuromancer and The Peripheral feature characters who are artificially/forcefully prevented from indulging in their addictions... Not gonna lie I was really hoping that Netherton was going to get to drink near the end, because it would be like his assertion of victory over his circumstances, something that is arguably what all the characters are trying to achieve. I also thought it was kind of silly how quickly the future was able to influence the stub. Like I get that they can basically throw infinite money at problems, but bureaucracy does not work that fast. I guess it must in the near future. I just can imagine and inbound drone strike being aborted with minutes to spare because a company got bought out. Like, just the time to make the phonecalls and explain to the relevant people what's going on would take too long. Overall, great read. Very topical, Gibson still has it and knows what's going on. Still not as good as Pattern Recognition for me, because in Pattern Recognition I feel like I got to really engage with the protagonist, and in The Peripheral I felt like the protagonist just sort of accepted everything that was happening and had about two emotional reactions (seeing Aelita's murder, and learning about the nerve agent). The Peripheral just had so many characters, many of who do very little, that it was harder for me to connect with any of them. At the same time, all of the characters did ring true, and the relationships, both personal and professional were very accurate. So I guess after a short break of non-Gibson stuff, I'm going to go back and finish Mona Lisa Overdrive (because I'd already started it when I received PR as a gift) and then finish the Blue Ant trilogy.
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Feb 20, 2015 00:20
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Snak posted:
The scene that has always stayed with me about his insight on addiction is from Mona Lisa Overdrive - it's a minor one but I'll spoiler it anyway in case you haven't gotten to it: I don't recall the details, except that things are going to poo poo in a spectacular way and in the middle of it all Mona pulls out some meth she found and gets high because she can't deal with everything that's happening. That's a minor scene, but I can't imagine anyone without close experience of addiction writing it.
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Feb 20, 2015 01:29
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Not reading your spoiler, because I'm very near the beginning of MLO, but yeah, he clearly has some personal experiences either with addiction or addicts. He spent a lot of time hanging out with hippies, so he probably did encounter plenty of varying degrees of substance abuse. Without going into too much detail about myself, I find the authenticity of the way his characters used drugs and alcohol to be very powerful. He doesn't glamorize it either. When he's writing from the point of view of characters that are addicts, you can tell that character views their drug use very different from other characters. In The Peripheral you can tell that Netherton is always of the impression that he deserves or needs a drink, and that having one won't screw himself or anything up. He is literally constantly aware of his chances of scoring a drink. Every time he actually gets to drink, he gets shitfaced. From say, Ashe and Ossian's perspective, they are constantly babysitting this rear end in a top hat who got them into this mess and he's just trying to get drunk all the time. Both PR and Neuromancer have the theme that sobriety is a necessary step to unlock the true potential of person.
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Feb 20, 2015 02:01
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i like the part where a japanese guy cuts off his arm with his own robot thumb on a futuristic mosh platform
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Feb 21, 2015 05:30
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also i like when the fat guy throws up on himself b/c he lost his airplane video game
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Feb 21, 2015 05:44
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I'm about halfway into The Peripheral and I'm in a weird place where I want to just keep on tearing through it, but desperately want to slow down so I don't reach the ending too soon.
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Apr 12, 2015 14:58
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just finished the peripheral. best book i've read in years. couple questions (phrased so as to avoid spoilers): how did the hands give her away? who was the periperal meant to look like? i know it looked like her but there were multiple references to it looking like someone else and i got the feeling i missed something what the gently caress was up with new zealand?
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Apr 13, 2015 02:57
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I read it right when it came out, and only once, so I may misremember, but as to your second point: The peripheral I think just looks like a generic actress/celebrity. Or maybe a specific future one, but only at first glance. That's what people are commenting on. The takeaway is that it's very attractive, in a mainstream sort of way. Gibson has a couple characters throughout his books that are described like that (model/celeb good looks), without reference to anyone in particular. Some are also described by having them be mistaken for a more famous person by other characters. The famous person is sometimes named, sometimes not. It's just one of his things, I'm pretty sure you aren't missing anything major.
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Apr 13, 2015 03:26
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the talent deficit posted:
Griff and Lowbeer have literally the same hands. Not something everyone would notice, but the protagonist did.
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Apr 13, 2015 04:30
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Snak posted:Griff and Lowbeer have literally the same hands. Not something everyone would notice, but the protagonist did. Fairly certain it was not literally the same hands so much as the same quirk to arrange the food just-so.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:50
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S.T.C.A. posted:Fairly certain it was not literally the same hands so much as the same quirk to arrange the food just-so. Actually, it's pretty unclear the type of cyberization that goes on in this world. Their medical technology is so advanced that it's not actually implied that Lowbeer would necessarily have artificial/prosthetic body parts to have lived so long. It's entirely possible that, in Lowbeer's continuity, Griff got gender re-assignment surgery and has been kept in good health ever since. Not saying you're wrong, I just got the vibe that his hands weren’t something she felt needed to be changed.
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Apr 13, 2015 07:11
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Pretty sure it was just the way the hands moved, the unconscious tics that everyone has. Gibson used to be addicted to benzos, like Milgrim. I asked him about it at a book signing for Zero History, he used to have anxiety and paranoia problems (stemming from apophenia, which is a form of "pattern recognition" and is discussed in that book, with one of my favorite bits where he says something about how paranoia is like a garden that must be tended carefully). Reading Pattern Recognition was really good for me because I have got a wildly active case of apophenia myself and had until then thought I was just insane or the Universe was consciously loving with me. Now I only believe those things half the time, rather than all the time. Milgrim really resonated with me too because I used to be a heavy Valium addict (well, three 10mg pills a day isn't as bad as some people, but it's still fairly "heavy") and his story went much the same way mine did, right down to meeting my very own versions of Hollis Henry and Fiona. I really hope his next book is set in the same world as The Peripheral, I feel like the "stub" angle doesn't need to be brought up again, just have the next book be about that particular stub and the continuing efforts to avoid The Jackpot. Then again, I wouldn't mind if he went the other way and wrote a book about Netherton and friends. the talent deficit posted:what the gently caress was up with new zealand? I think that was kind of a joke, like what is the last country you would expect to be a major player? New loving Zealand of course, because that place is weird.
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Apr 15, 2015 23:27
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Weird coincidence: I opened Google to read more about apophenia. The Google Doodle today intrigued me, so I clicked on it. The article listed underneath was "Loch Ness Monster photo: A case of plesiosaur pareidolia?" And pareidolia is, of course, a type of apophenia. Nifty.
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Apr 21, 2015 22:29
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The Wheelie Boy has arrived
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May 20, 2015 14:20
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As someone who loves Stephenson, Stross, a little Cory Doctrow, and a bit of Strerling, I feel horrible that I had never picked up anything by Gibson. I feel as if I have a fairly forgiving suspension of disbelief, but near future speculative fiction can be a sticky situation. We never really can tell what society or manufacturers are going to latch onto potentially rendering large swaths of technology obsolete seemingly overnight. Because of this I had stayed away feeling as if the crest of the Gibson wave had passed me by. After reading the first page of this thread I looked into the Blue Ant trilogy. I marathoned all three over a week and a half and all I can say is, "Thank you, thread.". The oddest thing is how I feel after Pattern Recognition. Strangely ambivalent, like nothing really happened, but at the same time I wasn't upset that I had put the time into it. Thought it did a great job of setting up Bigend and his methods at the very least. Spook Country just gets more amusing the more I reflect on it and there some pretty creepy connotations if you want to read between the lines. Zero History was just plain fun and it was really sweet to watch Milgrim's character arc. It's unlikely to happen, but I kinda have a candle lit for more Bigend. I just find the whole "Man Behind The Curtain" act, and the uber-weathly man-child willing to throw any and all resources merely to satisfy his own curiosity totally compelling. I want to get into The Peripheral now, but have Seveneves sitting on the coffee table waiting for me. If Stephenson's last two novels are any indication though, I'll most likely get about 10 chapters in before I get bogged down, confused, or frustrated and set it down for 3 months, during which time I'll probably fit The Peripheral in. And a little anecdote that relates to Snow Crash from earlier in the thread. I picked up the book for a trip I was taking in 2005. I'll never forget reading the description of Hiro's "apartment" just as we were landing at LAX. Talk about a double take.
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May 29, 2015 18:19
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I had a serious backlog of crap on my Kindle, so I didn't get to The Peripheral until about a week ago. For the first quarter of it I was completely confused, but still intrigued. Once the settings were explained, I was HOOKED. I blew through it pretty quickly, and enjoyed every second. I think it may be my favorite Gibson book to date. I need to go back and read the old stuff to be sure, but I loving loved The Peripheral. Seveneves is next, so I can quit ignoring the Stephenson thread for fear of spoilers 
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May 29, 2015 19:48
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The Peripheral had some interesting ideas, but I actually felt it wasn't as good as a lot of Gibson's other work. I found myself a lot more engaged with the protagonists of Pattern Recognition and Mona Lisa Overdrive. It definitely wasn't bad, but there were times when it felt a lot more like a Neal Stephenson book than what I've come to expect from Gibson. Since I finished it several months ago, it hasn't really stuck with me the way Count Zero and Pattern Recognition have.
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May 29, 2015 19:54
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