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First time I DM/played 4E I made the mistake of not telling the players that they were facing minions, and they all blew their dailies on the first round because HOLLY poo poo LOOK AT ALL THOSE KOBOLDS. The minion/elite/solo thing is a very gamey thing and it's exactly why it needs to be spelled exactly.
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Jan 31, 2014 23:42
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fatherdog posted:The first time one of the characters in our group makes an attack against a given defense for a monster, the actual number for that defense goes up on our turn tracker. We're using a custom one, though; dunno if Masterplan has that functionality. This is what I did when I ran my game and subsequent DMs have used it too (though I make one of the players write it down rather than put it up on a turn tracker; if they don't care enough to keep track of it I'm certainly not expending effort to do it for them). It has a nice effect on some combats, where there's either one or two obviously more powerful enemies or a bunch of one type- they can feel the enemies out with attacks against various defenses before finding a low one to focus on. It helps if you have a lot of powers targeting different defenses in your party, of course.
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Feb 1, 2014 01:37
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I started playing 4th edition a few months ago. It's crazy how few online tools there are for this game. What I have found for character sheets hasn't really been ideal. So, I thought I'd make my own. I'm calling Dragonputer for now. I'm looking for ideas, feedback, or even contributors if someone is up for it. I'm also a total D&D newbie. It's designed for phone and tablets and saves everything directly on your browser. There's a cloud sync feature, but you'll have to send me your Facebook profile to get access. That feature is handy for character entry, since you can type/paste everything on your PC, then sync and have it available on your phone. I'm actively working on it on weekends, so shoot me an email if you want to help test or even contribute code. 4e is on it's way out, so I'm hoping to take a second pass at it to generalize and make it work for other games eventually.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:11
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wallawallawingwang posted:Yeah. Letting your players spend their daily to take out a minion (and do nothing else) really sets a tone for the game. The tone is gently caress you! I tell my players when monsters are minions. One of them still wants to roll damage. After much loving around and experimenting to no avail when it comes to changing up the battlefield so players actually, like, move around and poo poo I've had a success! Last time I tried having the players standing on stone platforms that randomly changed height every round, but I think I made the platforms too large and the enemies weren't mobile enough or ranged so everyone just got on one platform and rode it out. This time I had everyone stand on stone rocks that were falling out of the sky. Using a Warhammer scatter die and a d6, I can have the platforms (ripped up paper) randomly move around, and the players can move them on their turn. Add in a bunch of respawning artillery monsters protecting the flying boss and good times are had by all.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:37
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glompix posted:I started playing 4th edition a few months ago. It's crazy how few online tools there are for this game. What I have found for character sheets hasn't really been ideal. So, I thought I'd make my own. I'm calling Dragonputer for now. I'm looking for ideas, feedback, or even contributors if someone is up for it. I'm also a total D&D newbie. This looks pretty cool, but have you tried iplay4E? It seems pretty similar, although doesn't save on the browser so that's definitely a neat addition.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:39
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UrbanLabyrinth posted:This looks pretty cool, but have you tried iplay4E? It seems pretty similar, although doesn't save on the browser so that's definitely a neat addition. I don't an insider account, so I don't have that program to create a character to upload.
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Feb 1, 2014 03:45
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Has anyone come across a more elegant 4e character sheet that minimises repeated info and emphasises the essential stuff? In the past I've ripped off the awesome single sheet layout that Ettin made but they're pretty time-consuming to prepare. The advantage is you can be smart about what does and doesn't need to be on a sheet, including rolling similar powers into a single entry that ends with "choose this effect or that one".
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Feb 1, 2014 11:09
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Party Boat posted:Has anyone come across a more elegant 4e character sheet that minimises repeated info and emphasises the essential stuff? In the past I've ripped off the awesome single sheet layout that Ettin made but they're pretty time-consuming to prepare. The advantage is you can be smart about what does and doesn't need to be on a sheet, including rolling similar powers into a single entry that ends with "choose this effect or that one". On this note, I wish skill bonuses from items and stuff added to all skills keying off a particular ability score. That, and making it so your lowest ability scores were both 10s all the time instead of an 8 and a 10 would allow the skills section of the character sheet to be condensed a lot.
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Feb 1, 2014 17:42
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So there's a good chance that, soon, we'll be retiring the Dark Sun game after a long hiatus of playtesting and illness. I am going to try and sell my players on the Zeitgeist adventure path, which is pretty phenomenal as I noted up-thread. I want to do two things, though, with the setup. (1) I want to encourage my players to use the Zeitgeist themes. I'm leaning towards handing out a free point to spend on attributes, since I think it'll greatly improve the campaign if the PCs are tied into the setting mechanically. (FYI - only the L1 benefits are in the Zeitgeist Player's Guide. For whatever reason, the 5 & 10 features are in Adventure 3.) (2) Zeitgeist has guns, but there's very little reason anyone would ever use them in 4e. D&D rewards specialization, and about the only characters they could work for are maybe Artificers and some varieties of Rangers. But even then it's iffy. Ideally, I want them to be fire-and-drop kinds of weapons - the sort where everyone can use one, so you shoot at each other, drop 'em, and close in. You know, flintlock-style. So I'm thinking of letting characters just use their normal highest attack & damage bonuses (plus the proficiency bonus, if this highest attack bonus is for an implement attack). I figure this will make them more appealing to the group as a whole, it'll keep them thematic, and I generally prefer it to the AP's potential suggestions on how to involve firearms. So that's what I'm leaning towards, but I'm open for other ideas!
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Feb 2, 2014 02:13
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dwarf74 posted:Ideally, I want them to be fire-and-drop kinds of weapons - the sort where everyone can use one, so you shoot at each other, drop 'em, and close in. You know, flintlock-style. So I'm thinking of letting characters just use their normal highest attack & damage bonuses (plus the proficiency bonus, if this highest attack bonus is for an implement attack). I figure this will make them more appealing to the group as a whole, it'll keep them thematic, and I generally prefer it to the AP's potential suggestions on how to involve firearms. I found the best way to model this was as magic items, not weapons. Give them a once/encounter ability, Standard action, which has a set attack/damage. This way you don't require anything like weapon proficiencies, and it also doesn't really compete with most of the non-firearm ranged weapons, which are most useful for specialists. That way your archers are still quite relevant, but anyone has the ability to wield a brace of wheellock pistols.
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Feb 2, 2014 02:19
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Signal posted:I found the best way to model this was as magic items, not weapons. Give them a once/encounter ability, Standard action, which has a set attack/damage. This way you don't require anything like weapon proficiencies, and it also doesn't really compete with most of the non-firearm ranged weapons, which are most useful for specialists. That way your archers are still quite relevant, but anyone has the ability to wield a brace of wheellock pistols. I have no problems modeling guns differently for different PCs. Your typical flintlocks for a normal character could easily just be encounter-use magic items, say Level+3 vs Reflex (or Level+5 vs AC), dealing 2d6+level damage, for instance. And your idea is easier than what I was considering.
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Feb 2, 2014 02:30
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The gamma world rules for guns graft easily onto 4e, and making them encounter based is as easy as waving your hand. They've got increased range and are a bit more powerful than standard ranged weapons, but the GW rules for ammo (which basically made them 1/encounter anyway) made them less attractive to ranged players anyway.
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Feb 2, 2014 02:49
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I wonder how viable a Gunslinger class (like in pathfinder - except not loving awful), that focused entirely on crafting and using guns effectively, would be. I know a few people who would love to play Roland of Gilead and a Gunslinger could be a neat Martial Controller idea.
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Feb 2, 2014 03:22
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dwarf74 posted:That's a really cool idea. I want there to be options for actual firearms specialists, though. There's even a theme - the Gunsmith - which focuses on it... Just steal from the alchemy weapon tables and copy them they work the same way pretty much. Hell you could change the gadgeteer's garb into a gunslinger outfit by just crossing out alchemy and adding "gun" and it would fit pretty thematically.
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Feb 2, 2014 03:24
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Prison Warden posted:I wonder how viable a Gunslinger class (like in pathfinder - except not loving awful), that focused entirely on crafting and using guns effectively, would be. I know a few people who would love to play Roland of Gilead and a Gunslinger could be a neat Martial Controller idea. Yeah, I could see it working as either a Controller (SUPPRESSING FIRE!!!) or Striker
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Feb 2, 2014 03:24
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dwarf74 posted:That's a really cool idea. I want there to be options for actual firearms specialists, though. There's even a theme - the Gunsmith - which focuses on it... Sounds like a set of custom consumables to me (which recharge on a short rest). Making them good enough to actually USE in the first round without being overpowered would be a challenge though.
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Feb 2, 2014 09:30
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Hey, so we just ran our first game and everyone had a blast. Next time, we want everyone to roll their own characters instead of using the premade ones in the quickstart rules. I'm guessing the 'get essentials' advice is still valid? The problem is that with things going out of print, the price of the DM's kit is already very high, the rules compendium's price is going up too and monster vault has also gone out of print. Is there any way to get the print editions cheaper? I know you can buy pdfs, but things like the cardboard circles for monsters and players, DM screen, having a print copy of the rules all seem very useful.
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Feb 3, 2014 01:21
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Is there a comprehensive list of traps, hazards and terrain features anywhere, maybe even sorted by level/appropriate tier? Not that it's a really big deal doing my own but sometimes when you design a dungeon you just want to read a list and plop in ready-to-use things you wouldn't have thought of, you know? e: why yes I could have googled first and found the D&D Wiki where they have have both. Sorry about the interruption, do carry on. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 09:44
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So yeah, I feel that the little hack I did didn't work out so great, it was way too swingy. I think I'll just introduce a couple companion characters with simple abilities, and retire them when I get more players in the group. Best part of the session was when we were making characters, and when browsing the race choices one of the players went "Is that dude made out of storm? I want to play that  " when he saw the genasi. I think this set the tone for the rest of the campaign. I didn't really bother with Forgotten Realms in 4E because they were very boring in 3E, but I heard that it's a more or less post-apocalyptic setting right now? I heard that the Neverwinter book is a particularly good mini-campaign setting. Does anyone have any experiences with it?
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Feb 3, 2014 10:22
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Neverwinter is amazing. I hate FR, but it's a solid heroic tier setting from start to finish. It almost made me want to run an FR game, it's that good. It also makes the post Spellplague Realms a lot more understandable. e: I have the top review for a lot of 4e books on amazon, including this one. So that's my full review, if you want more detail. 
dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Feb 3, 2014 |
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Feb 3, 2014 15:28
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Is there an unofficial 4e Spelljammer setting floating around somewhere? After our gaming group is done with the current game we're running (Dark Ages Vampire), I want to try and run Spelljammer. I figure 4e's combat system would lend itself well to ship combat. (This is probably academic, since almost everyone in my gaming group is at best hostile against 4e soooo)
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Feb 3, 2014 20:30
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MinionOfCthulhu posted:Is there an unofficial 4e Spelljammer setting floating around somewhere? After our gaming group is done with the current game we're running (Dark Ages Vampire), I want to try and run Spelljammer. I figure 4e's combat system would lend itself well to ship combat. EN Publishing has a supplement called Admiral of the High Seas, which is a 3rd party product for 4e naval battles, which may help to make ship combat more interesting. Very helpful for spelljamming, I'd say.
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Feb 3, 2014 20:41
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dwarf74 posted:Spelljammer got kind of mushed into the Astral Sea, so kinda sorta but not really. The closest is The Plane Above, but it's a stretch. The setting change doesn't bother me. I have a few of the old setting stuff so it's easy enough to say poof, it's space still, have fun flying to Krynn or whatever you guys want. I will look into Admiral of the High Seas, though, thanks!
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Feb 3, 2014 21:15
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There were a bunch of people doing an Al Qadim conversion. Did anything ever happen with that?
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Feb 4, 2014 01:43
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Rexides posted:So yeah, I feel that the little hack I did didn't work out so great, it was way too swingy. I think I'll just introduce a couple companion characters with simple abilities, and retire them when I get more players in the group. When you do, make sure to emphasize the fact that they retire undefeated.
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Feb 4, 2014 04:56
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Rexides posted:So yeah, I feel that the little hack I did didn't work out so great, it was way too swingy. I think I'll just introduce a couple companion characters with simple abilities, and retire them when I get more players in the group. Calling 4E FR post-apocalyptic is overselling it a great deal. A lot of stuff got messed up in the big edition change event, but the setting's core is still basically the same old fantasy grab bag. Most of the changes served just to expand the size of that grab bag. Neverwinter is fantastic. Even people who hate FR like it. It's very focused and largely stand-alone. It makes for a very solid heroic "defend/rebuild/conquer the isolated city" campaign with a lot of room for mystery, exploration and intrigue. The backgrounds tie PCs into the setting and give them immediate goals and motivations that can be at odds if that is the sort of campaing you'd like. I'm running it right now for a mixed group of beginners and veterans, and they are having a blast.
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Feb 4, 2014 07:45
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I'm looking at running the Zeitgeist adventure path for people on the forums, probably as a PbP but possibly via roll20. Are there any things I should know before I start that aren't immediately obvious from reading through the provided documents? Any particular pitfalls or encounters that need to be reworked?
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Feb 4, 2014 07:56
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RPZip posted:I'm looking at running the Zeitgeist adventure path for people on the forums, probably as a PbP but possibly via roll20. Are there any things I should know before I start that aren't immediately obvious from reading through the provided documents? Any particular pitfalls or encounters that need to be reworked? Note that the themes are expanded in the 3rd adventure. See above for ideas re: firearms. 4e doesn't do well with characters working "off spec" so if you want them used, prepare to tweak.
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Feb 4, 2014 08:07
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I'm converting RHoD to 4e, like so many others have done, and I want to make the Hydra fight something more interesting than just a leveled-down Solo monster, so I decided to give homebrewing something a try. Here's my attempt at a Hydra. Hydra Head (x4), Hydra Body My internal  made me spend a lot of words to explain every specific corner case of a very simple concept: The Hydra's Body is an Elite Soldier with a lot of HP and Regen, but almost no attacks, while each individual head is a non-elite Brute (actually a Shark with slightly-nerfed damage) that has the usual "cut it off and it grows back". It's supposed to be a tough encounter, I figure about Level 7 if my players aren't super-quick on the uptake of how to keep the heads down (see also: maximum number of heads), which is alright, as they're Level 5, and stated a preference for tough fights.I specifically wanted to make sure that A) it wouldn't require fire or acid to kill, because seriously, who specializes in loving acid, and B) it wouldn't punish the party for being either unable or unwilling to pursue my one specific line of logic for how to kill it. There are actually at least three distinct ways to kill the Hydra built in, not counting any that the players come up with, or convince me to let them make work. 1) The 'standard', cut off the heads and burn the stumps closed. 2) KO all still-living heads simultaneously with any type of damage that isn't untyped. Psionic, Lightning, Radiant, whatever. It's only the final blow that matters, so as long as the martial characters are careful, everyone can definitely still contribute. This one results in the thing being KOed, and can then be left or dispatched at leisure. 3) Ignore the heads, wail on the body until the whole thing keels over. Not exactly efficient, but definitely a "brute force" option if need be.
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Feb 4, 2014 11:56
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I bought the monster vault and heroes of the fallen lands. Not going to buy the rules compendium ast it's way to expensive now, and it sounds like heroes has most of the rules too? Is there any chance that there might be another printing of the dungeon master's kit? It seems like it'd be very useful, especially because of the screen/adventure/tokens, but the lowest price I can find is 120 euro, which is way too much.
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Feb 4, 2014 16:30
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I never read Heroes of the Fallen Lands as a book, but the Rules Compendium is fantastic. It's not so much that it has all the basic rules (would not be a very good deal if it didn't) but the excellent index that makes it so helpful. I'm saying this as a librarian, they did a great job listing all the right keywords. Even the PDF version would be well worth it unless you can't have a laptop or tablet at the table.
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Feb 4, 2014 16:40
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Honestly the most valuable 4e product I ever spent money on was DDI, and really just for the online compendium. Searchable database of basically everything, including most rules minutia (to my knowledge; it's sufficed whenever a question came up at the table). Classes, races, PPs, EDs, items, monsters, all there. The character builder is really handy for chargen, but if the table likes doing it all by hand, it should have everything you'd need. Plus if someone wants to roll something that's not a warpriest/thief/slayer/knight/mage, they'd have a wider range of options. Know that doesn't help with tokens/physical aids, but for game info it's a pretty sweet deal imo. My Lovely Horse posted:Rules Compendium is fantastic.
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Feb 4, 2014 17:14
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Thanks for the advice! Switched heroes for the rules compendium. We'll use the character builder to make the characters.
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Feb 4, 2014 18:37
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Elmo Oxygen posted:Or ditch the screen altogether! Other than using it for quick reference tables, there's not much need for it in 4ed unless you're fudging your rolls for some silly reason. I will occasionally modify a roll behind the screen. I once chain crit my PC's and would have wiped the party had I not done some behind-the-screen shenanigans. I sometimes use the screen for decoys or for making the players not be too into the meta. For example, I'll roll for nothing behind the screen as the PC's are exploring. Do you keep your NPC/monster stats in the open for PC's to see? I think it adds more of a surprise if the kobold with the sword suddenly stops swinging and starts casting a spell (as opposed to full disclosure of monster stats).
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Feb 5, 2014 13:06
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Since "casting a spell" is no longer such a dramatically different thing than "swing a sword real good", I say that yes, it's something that you can throw at the players from time to time I guess. The only thing I would worry is messing up monster roles, because a monster who has both soldier defenses and artillery damage and is not an elite is just bullshit.
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Feb 5, 2014 13:26
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I used to fudge rolls every now and then, but I resolved to do so no more. If my party gets crit-chained and wiped they get crit-chained and wiped. (But they don't get killed; if they all go down they wake up bruised and hurt and chained up by the goblins, but the next thing I say is "what do you do".)
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Feb 5, 2014 13:40
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My Lovely Horse posted:I used to fudge rolls every now and then, but I resolved to do so no more. If my party gets crit-chained and wiped they get crit-chained and wiped. (But they don't get killed; if they all go down they wake up bruised and hurt and chained up by the goblins, but the next thing I say is "what do you do".) Of course, this also has to come with properly-balanced encounters, and a willingness to break this rule if you accidentally make a fight way too hard for whatever reason.
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Feb 5, 2014 23:12
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I have a coworker who has played in Pathfinder games, but not 4e. They have been talked into running an online 4e game as GM. I'm going to link them to the resources in this thread, but does anyone have any common 'gotcha' rules differences between the systems I can point out to help with the transition? I already mentioned the whole non-euclidean diagonal movement thing.
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Feb 6, 2014 19:26
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The Leper Colon V posted:This is the right decision to make. The alternative is that the players go through the whole game with no sense of risk. Why do you need to fight tactically if the DM's gonna always make sure you just barely survive? Yes. My players started enjoying my games a lot more when I took down the screen and started rolling in the open.
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Feb 6, 2014 19:58
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ElegantFugue posted:I have a coworker who has played in Pathfinder games, but not 4e. They have been talked into running an online 4e game as GM. I'm going to link them to the resources in this thread, but does anyone have any common 'gotcha' rules differences between the systems I can point out to help with the transition? I already mentioned the whole non-euclidean diagonal movement thing. It's less of a rules thing than a gaming philosophy thing. Out of combat, 4e works best with on a "anything not forbidden is allowed" approach to problem solving, exploration, and social interactions. Pathfinder skills, abilities, feats, spells and items tend to be more cut and dry and more specific in terms of what they can or cannot do. For example, in 4e if a player wants to wall run the resolution is purely up to the DM and group to figure out. In pathfinder there are a hand full of dedicated wall running powers, so some players think they can only wall run if they have an ability that specifically lets them.
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Feb 6, 2014 21:14
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