Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Mans
Sep 14, 2011

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
What do you do with protectorates? I feel like i'm missing something obvious. They seem like un-annexable vassals that just...chill doing nothing?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Bold Robot
Jan 6, 2009

Be brave.



Mans posted:

What do you do with protectorates? I feel like i'm missing something obvious. They seem like un-annexable vassals that just...chill doing nothing?

That's about it. They give you half of their trade power, so I guess they might be useful in certain situations where you need to direct trade over a very long distance but can't/won't take over any territory along the way to help steer. On the whole, though, they're pretty annoying and boring.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009
One advantage they do have is that if trade power is all you want, you can protectorate huge countries
for only 100% war score (while controlling them may take many many wars).

DentedLamp
Aug 2, 2012
Is there any way I can get early colonisation on as England with a randomised new world? By the time King 0-0-0 Shitlord dies and I finally have enough dip points to plop a New World colony down, Castile and Portugal already have 5-10 colonies apiece, and they tend, of course, to be the good ones. I'm able to take Iceland quite quickly from Norway in all of my test runs so far, and I've even had the benefit of winning the HYW in each, but none of that really matters if I can't paint the New World red and spread English teagemony around the globe.

Chickpea Roar
Jan 11, 2006

Merdre!
Making a protectorate of large indian or chinese nations can be pretty good. At the end of my recent Norway game I was collecting around 100 gold in Ceylon each month, with 2 provinces in the node, some ships and Viyanagar as a protectorate. It also doesn't take up a diplomatic relationship and keeps them safe from other Europeans.

KoldPT
Oct 9, 2012

Mans posted:

What do you do with protectorates? I feel like i'm missing something obvious. They seem like un-annexable vassals that just...chill doing nothing?

They're pretty useful but only very situationally, like if you're playing Ottomans and want to fight Muscovy, you're going to want Crimea, Kazan, Uzbek and whatnot on your side, and protectorate's a decent option for that. It's still terrible in most cases! Watch out when releasing vassals, too. I remember releasing one of the Sheep Turkmens (probably Qara) and not being able to diploannex that territory because they were protectorate instead of vassal.

DentedLamp posted:

Is there any way I can get early colonisation on as England with a randomised new world? By the time King 0-0-0 Shitlord dies and I finally have enough dip points to plop a New World colony down, Castile and Portugal already have 5-10 colonies apiece, and they tend, of course, to be the good ones. I'm able to take Iceland quite quickly from Norway in all of my test runs so far, and I've even had the benefit of winning the HYW in each, but none of that really matters if I can't paint the New World red and spread English teagemony around the globe.

Vassalize Portugal and Castille. :hist101:

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Pellisworth posted:

I still think Diplomatic first is the best option since you can just DUMP points into ideas and start unlocking your NIs earlier, those DIP points don't do much for you otherwise. Most of the time I don't have anywhere near enough MIL points to keep up with tech and buy into military ideas. What's more, the extra diplomat and +2 relations from the first three Diplomatic ideas really accelerates your early to mid game diplomacy. You'll acquire and annex vassals faster, you can have more alliances, start buttering up to electors faster, etc.

I'd rather have the Diplomatic ideas and let Brohemia and other allies/vassals do most of the fighting for me, early game.

That works, if you think you can rely on them. But I find it's tough to diploannex people with just your starting territory, so I just prefer to dump into the first two ideas in defensive, then focus on mil tech. Although now that I look at it, Brandenburg's ruler and heir aren't great in military, so I probably only did that because my heir got replaced.

Also, I don't really hesitate to go over the diplo limit anymore, especially in cases like this where there's not much to do with those points anyway. The diplomat would be up.

Epinephrine posted:

During the first 5-year truce with the TO I like to force-vassalize Pommerania. Usually a cakewalk if you can pull some combo of Bohemia, Poland and Austria in. Diploannex, and the province question goes away.

Yeah, feel free to do this if the alliances work out for you. I just maintain the TO has to be your priority because otherwise Poland will carve off big chunks of them.

DentedLamp posted:

Is there any way I can get early colonisation on as England with a randomised new world? By the time King 0-0-0 Shitlord dies and I finally have enough dip points to plop a New World colony down, Castile and Portugal already have 5-10 colonies apiece, and they tend, of course, to be the good ones. I'm able to take Iceland quite quickly from Norway in all of my test runs so far, and I've even had the benefit of winning the HYW in each, but none of that really matters if I can't paint the New World red and spread English teagemony around the globe.

Don't buy diplomatic tech. Horde your points until you hit admin 4, choose exploration ideas, buy the first 3 ideas, then start buying diplomatic tech after that to get neighbour bonuses.

PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Feb 4, 2014

Knuc U Kinte
Aug 17, 2004

Pellisworth posted:

French region provinces always go to France

HRE provinces take priority and Franche-Comte goes to the HRE.

Radiation Cow
Oct 23, 2010

Does anybody have links to some tutorial LPs that explain the mechanics of the game in reasonable bite size portions? I played the poo poo out of CK2 and felt reasonably confident with the mechanics and strategies but this is a whole different kettle of fish and I'm lost.

Knuc U Kinte
Aug 17, 2004

Radiation Cow posted:

Does anybody have links to some tutorial LPs that explain the mechanics of the game in reasonable bite size portions? I played the poo poo out of CK2 and felt reasonably confident with the mechanics and strategies but this is a whole different kettle of fish and I'm lost.

I suggest Arumba07's youtube channel. Watch a few of his videos and try to play along.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

I'm playing as Japan, when I westernise I don't think I'll still be able to vassalise my weak-tech neighbours but be limited to protectorates. Is that correct, and if so are they worth it or should I simply annex the hell out of their territory? I've had amazing luck with personal unions in this game, so Ming, the Oirat Horde AND Bengal are my junior PU partners (and I managed to colonise the Russian steppes before Russia could find a way to the pacific ocean.

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


Do converted games always start at 1444 even though I exported at 1453? Does it only upload things that happened until then and ignore the last 9 years?

Baron Porkface fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Feb 4, 2014

Ofaloaf
Feb 15, 2013

Baron Porkface posted:

Do converted games always start at 1444 even though I exported at 1453? Does it only upload things that happened until then and ignore the last 9 years?
They always convert to 1444, and they take whatever the situation was your situation was in CK2 regardless of year. In your case, the converter just takes the situation in 1453 and turns back the clock (roll back the rock ♫) to 1444. If you want to mod things, you could, I dunno, try to jigger with bookmarks or something.

DentedLamp
Aug 2, 2012

PittTheElder posted:

That works, if you think you can rely on them. But I find it's tough to diploannex people with just your starting territory, so I just prefer to dump into the first two ideas in defensive, then focus on mil tech. Although now that I look at it, Brandenburg's ruler and heir aren't great in military, so I probably only did that because my heir got replaced.

Also, I don't really hesitate to go over the diplo limit anymore, especially in cases like this where there's not much to do with those points anyway. The diplomat would be up.


Yeah, feel free to do this if the alliances work out for you. I just maintain the TO has to be your priority because otherwise Poland will carve off big chunks of them.


Don't buy diplomatic tech. Horde your points until you hit admin 4, choose exploration ideas, buy the first 3 ideas, then start buying diplomatic tech after that to get neighbour bonuses.

But I do that already. There aren't enough dip points. :negative:

Jackson Taus
Oct 19, 2011
So in the new beta patch it's basically impossible for anyone (including the player) to have more than two "Great Power" allies. I could not get Bohemia, Austria and Muscovy allied with me despite otherwise great relations because once I allied two, the third would say "-100 Too many Great Power allies for Bohemia".

That dick-punches a lot of the early game strats that are some variant of "get a poo poo-load of powerful allies and…" like the Hundred-Years-War, but also screws up things like being Brandenburg and having good anti-Commonwealth defenses.

One thought on HRE expansion and vassalization (as Brandenburg for me, but probably applicable to Bavaria/Austria/Bohemia) is that if you're planning to war-vassalize, it may be worth waiting a decade or two for the various OPMs to become TPMs - you only have so many diplo points and you can only annex once a decade.

How does vassal-feeding work in the HRE? If I feed a vassal something they don't have a core in, are they going to give it up when the Emperor demands it?

PittTheElder posted:

That works, if you think you can rely on them. But I find it's tough to diploannex people with just your starting territory, so I just prefer to dump into the first two ideas in defensive, then focus on mil tech. Although now that I look at it, Brandenburg's ruler and heir aren't great in military, so I probably only did that because my heir got replaced.

Your ruler is pretty young, so having your heir lead from (way far in) the front can get you a new heir, especially if you go Diplomatic Ideas early and have like 6 RMs. In terms of diplo-vassalization you're right - I could only DV most of the OPMs once I had Brandenburg+TO+Pommerania integrated.

Jackson Taus fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Feb 4, 2014

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

DentedLamp posted:

But I do that already. There aren't enough dip points. :negative:

England always starts with an awful leader and an even worse heir. Do your best to get them killed I suppose.


Does anyone know exactly what defines a 'Great Power'? Is it some combination of Score + Army tech/size?

Jackson Taus
Oct 19, 2011

Soviet_Russia posted:

England always starts with an awful leader and an even worse heir. Do your best to get them killed I suppose.

Yes, because deliberately triggering the War of the Roses and probably a follow-on Peasants' War is a great way to get ahead of Castile… :)

Tahirovic
Feb 25, 2009
Fun Shoe
That's why 1399 Lite exists, god knows why Paradox didn't include a 1399 start anymore. I guess copying 5 more files from EU 3 was too much effort.

Cantorsdust
Aug 10, 2008

Infinitely many points, but zero length.
Everyone's missing the best part of the patch!

quote:

Exported protectorate tech cost difference threshold to lua defines

:woop: No more protectorates for me!

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
I can confirm that colonial nations not granting colonial range has finally been fixed. Time to finish that landgrab in the New World :911:

Baron Porkface
Jan 22, 2007


Hot drat I just learned not to take a military group as your first idea thing. Now I know how the Persians felt in 300.

Vodos
Jul 17, 2009

And how do we do that? We hurt a lot of people...

Jackson Taus posted:

How does vassal-feeding work in the HRE? If I feed a vassal something they don't have a core in, are they going to give it up when the Emperor demands it?
As far as I can tell, no AI buys HRE territory it doesn't have a core on, even before the 1.4 changes. There's even a specific diplomacy modifier for it.

toasterwarrior posted:

I can confirm that colonial nations not granting colonial range has finally been fixed. Time to finish that landgrab in the New World :911:
This wasn't a universal bug because I could always colonize using my colonial nations, including land-locked provinces.

Speaking of colonial nations, I released and switched to Brazil since I'm gonna try the achievement to vassalize your former overlord, it seems like former colonial nations can create their own colonial nations. I took Portugal's poo poo in the Carribean and formed my own colonial nations there. Luckily my colonies in the La Plata region do not seem to form a new colonial nation.

On the other hand Portugal's European territories do not create any overextension, which is a bit weird.

Sockerbagarn
Sep 8, 2007

All makt åt Tengil, vår befriare.

Jackson Taus posted:

So in the new beta patch it's basically impossible for anyone (including the player) to have more than two "Great Power" allies. I could not get Bohemia, Austria and Muscovy allied with me despite otherwise great relations because once I allied two, the third would say "-100 Too many Great Power allies for Bohemia".

That dick-punches a lot of the early game strats that are some variant of "get a poo poo-load of powerful allies and…" like the Hundred-Years-War, but also screws up things like being Brandenburg and having good anti-Commonwealth defenses.

One thought on HRE expansion and vassalization (as Brandenburg for me, but probably applicable to Bavaria/Austria/Bohemia) is that if you're planning to war-vassalize, it may be worth waiting a decade or two for the various OPMs to become TPMs - you only have so many diplo points and you can only annex once a decade.

How does vassal-feeding work in the HRE? If I feed a vassal something they don't have a core in, are they going to give it up when the Emperor demands it?


Your ruler is pretty young, so having your heir lead from (way far in) the front can get you a new heir, especially if you go Diplomatic Ideas early and have like 6 RMs. In terms of diplo-vassalization you're right - I could only DV most of the OPMs once I had Brandenburg+TO+Pommerania integrated.

I'm not sure why people were advocating for multiple strong allies for the Brandenburg start. Just ally with Austria and use them as your personal sledgehammer, this way you can take the Saxon territories from Bohemia as well without a pesky alliance getting in the way. By the time Poland gets angry enough to actually attack you, you should have Pommerania vassalized, a decent standing army and a tech edge which combined with Austria will make fights with them easy. You might as well attack them first if Austria will join the war.
When it comes to diplo-annexations you can do multiple at the same time, there's no ten year cooldown period between annexations. You have to wait ten years after you've vassalized someone to annex them but that's it.

Pellisworth
Jun 20, 2005

Sockerbagarn posted:

I'm not sure why people were advocating for multiple strong allies for the Brandenburg start. Just ally with Austria and use them as your personal sledgehammer, this way you can take the Saxon territories from Bohemia as well without a pesky alliance getting in the way. By the time Poland gets angry enough to actually attack you, you should have Pommerania vassalized, a decent standing army and a tech edge which combined with Austria will make fights with them easy. You might as well attack them first if Austria will join the war.
When it comes to diplo-annexations you can do multiple at the same time, there's no ten year cooldown period between annexations. You have to wait ten years after you've vassalized someone to annex them but that's it.

Yeah I usually grab Bohemia as my main ally with a Brandenburg start, but Austria would work fine too, you do really only need one and you'll want your diplomatic relations for vassals and buttering up electors long-term. I do try and ally (but not marry if I can get away with it) Denmark and Poland at least for the first couple wars against TO, because that will get them truces with the TO and prevent either from taking Danzig or other pieces before I do. I suppose another advantage to Austria as your big ally is dragging them into your wars will contribute to weakening them and maybe making the Imperial throne more easily available.

You only really need two allies (Castile and Austria) to beat France as England in the HYW, I haven't played the beta patch so dunno how the changes will affect that strategy.

Baudin
Dec 31, 2009

Sockerbagarn posted:

I'm not sure why people were advocating for multiple strong allies for the Brandenburg start. Just ally with Austria and use them as your personal sledgehammer, this way you can take the Saxon territories from Bohemia as well without a pesky alliance getting in the way. By the time Poland gets angry enough to actually attack you, you should have Pommerania vassalized, a decent standing army and a tech edge which combined with Austria will make fights with them easy. You might as well attack them first if Austria will join the war.
When it comes to diplo-annexations you can do multiple at the same time, there's no ten year cooldown period between annexations. You have to wait ten years after you've vassalized someone to annex them but that's it.

Multiple strong allies is a generally good idea as any minor or medium sized power since it reduces the chances of that ally being bogged down in a series of devastating wars (Austria sometimes gets particularly brutalized as I learned to my dismay in a Byzantine playthrough), increases the chances that you'll have an ally answer a call to war, and prevents a sudden rivalry with your erstwhile ally from leaving you friendless and surrounded by foes. As Brandenburg I usually had two allies (starting with Bohemia/Poland) which rotated to new allies as the old ones started hating me for my success.

I would generally improve relations with Austria, ally them once Poland hated my guts, then move to France once Bohemia hated me, etc. Never focus just on the people you want to ally with now, think on who you want to have as an ally when you go to war with your current AI "friends."


Edit:
Great success in my Byzantine game - when I get home tonight I'll upload more screenshots. Upshot so far: Pentarchy reformed, Roman Empire achievement acquired - I completely forgot about Kaffa, and breaking the hordes with a 5 mil tech advantage.

Baudin fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Feb 4, 2014

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!

Tahirovic posted:

That's why 1399 Lite exists, god knows why Paradox didn't include a 1399 start anymore. I guess copying 5 more files from EU 3 was too much effort.

I like the early start too, but in fairness to Paradox I really get the sense that they felt the later start gave a more balanced/historical outcome in most games. Given that 95%+ of players probably only start from the earliest possible start date, it makes sense for them to pick what they think the best date is. They've also said they won't extend the date back, so they're probably happy with it.

But, yeah, I like weird outcomes, and 1399 is also more fun for me because it gives you more time to build up an ahistoric colonizers like Dutch/German minors, Italy etc before the Iberians seize the entire New World.

Adventure Pigeon
Nov 8, 2005

I am a master storyteller.
So I have an issue. I'm playing as England and I've nabbed France and Castille through personal unions. I've currently vassalized multiple HRE members and was thinking of starting to annex them. Will the emperor demand return of HRE provinces even if I annex the nations entirely? I don't want to get into a war with them yet because I'm too busy rampaging through Asia, and I'm thinking of starting a campaign in North Africa and the middle east, and bringing down the Ottomans will be hard, since them and their allies have an ungodly amount of manpower.

A Tartan Tory
Mar 26, 2010

You call that a shotgun?!

Adventure Pigeon posted:

So I have an issue. I'm playing as England and I've nabbed France and Castille through personal unions. I've currently vassalized multiple HRE members and was thinking of starting to annex them. Will the emperor demand return of HRE provinces even if I annex the nations entirely? I don't want to get into a war with them yet because I'm too busy rampaging through Asia, and I'm thinking of starting a campaign in North Africa and the middle east, and bringing down the Ottomans will be hard, since them and their allies have an ungodly amount of manpower.

No, if you diploannex someone you will get a core automatically, so the Emperor can't do his 'return my provinces or heads on pikes fire and brimstone yada yada yada' event.

Vodos
Jul 17, 2009

And how do we do that? We hurt a lot of people...

Adventure Pigeon posted:

So I have an issue. I'm playing as England and I've nabbed France and Castille through personal unions. I've currently vassalized multiple HRE members and was thinking of starting to annex them. Will the emperor demand return of HRE provinces even if I annex the nations entirely? I don't want to get into a war with them yet because I'm too busy rampaging through Asia, and I'm thinking of starting a campaign in North Africa and the middle east, and bringing down the Ottomans will be hard, since them and their allies have an ungodly amount of manpower.

Annexing gives you cores, the emperor only demands "Unlawful Territory". However you will get a stacking opinion penalty with every HRE member for each HRE vassal you annex. This penalty also applies to your own HRE vassals, on top of the standard penalty for diplo-annexing. If you don't annex them all in one go it might take a while to get the remaining ones' opinion high enough for annexation.

Baudin
Dec 31, 2009

Adventure Pigeon posted:

So I have an issue. I'm playing as England and I've nabbed France and Castille through personal unions. I've currently vassalized multiple HRE members and was thinking of starting to annex them. Will the emperor demand return of HRE provinces even if I annex the nations entirely? I don't want to get into a war with them yet because I'm too busy rampaging through Asia, and I'm thinking of starting a campaign in North Africa and the middle east, and bringing down the Ottomans will be hard, since them and their allies have an ungodly amount of manpower.

Might I suggest going to war with the electors, vassalizing them, and becoming the new emperor? With France and Castille it should be a cakewalk.

A Tartan Tory
Mar 26, 2010

You call that a shotgun?!
Honestly though, if you are England with France and Spain in PU, you might as well do one campaign against the Emperor just to dissolve the HRE...unless you want to do a WC anyway.

Last Emperor
Oct 30, 2009

Updated the thread some more.

Alikchi has kindly provided me with some new Europa Gooniversalis screenshots and a quick blurb about it.

Honestly it is one of the best mods for EUIV if you like crazy alternate history scenarios, new national ideas and formable countries!

Vodos
Jul 17, 2009

And how do we do that? We hurt a lot of people...

A Tartan Tory posted:

Honestly though, if you are England with France and Spain in PU, you might as well do one campaign against the Emperor just to dissolve the HRE...unless you want to do a WC anyway.
Why would you do that, just become Emperor and get a diplomat, free leader, cheaper cores, bigger adviser pool, more taxes and eventually free vassals!

Mr Snips
Jan 9, 2009



I just had to give up on my Crimea game.

I'm at the point where I need better units to expand any more, but I'm unable to reform my government because I can't get my legitimacy high enough. Twice in a row now my ruler died a year before the heir would be old enough to rule so I get a completely new guy with 30 legitimacy since hordes can't have regencies. It's getting a bit ridiculous.

A Tartan Tory
Mar 26, 2010

You call that a shotgun?!

Vodos posted:

Why would you do that, just become Emperor and get a diplomat, free leader, cheaper cores, bigger adviser pool, more taxes and eventually free vassals!

Because technically at that point you are France and it's kinda your job to gently caress the HRE. :colbert:

Although I must admit my GB/Low Countries/France/Iberian Union with all of the New World, controlling all of the Far East trade had enough bonuses that I could just say gently caress it to the Empire.

Jackson Taus
Oct 19, 2011

Vodos posted:

Annexing gives you cores, the emperor only demands "Unlawful Territory". However you will get a stacking opinion penalty with every HRE member for each HRE vassal you annex. This penalty also applies to your own HRE vassals, on top of the standard penalty for diplo-annexing. If you don't annex them all in one go it might take a while to get the remaining ones' opinion high enough for annexation.

In my experience that penalty usually goes down within a decade for the first annexation, and you can Improve Relations on vassals up to +200. Toss in +50 for vassal and another +50 for RM and +25 for same religion with some "defended my territory" on the side and you should be in good shape, especially if you have the diplo-boosts from Diplomatic or Religious Ideas.

Vodos posted:

Why would you do that, just become Emperor and get a diplomat, free leader, cheaper cores, bigger adviser pool, more taxes and eventually free vassals!

As I see it, the only reason not to be Emperor is if you don't want to have defend OPMs from Denmark/France/etc. If you're England/Spain/France that's a non-issue. Though maybe having to have 2 PUs plus several electors vassalized would seriously hamper your Diplomatic Relations. But then it's not like you need those DR for alliances or anything :getin:

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

I played a game of Europa Gooniversalis once as Bhutan and conquered all of India, forming Hindustan, just for amusement value. I actually didn't take too much outside of India's real-world borders.

By the end of the game I was making juuuuuuust shy of 1000g/month in profit with zero ships. In fact, I only ever built 10 ships in the whole game, to ferry some troops over to a province that was going to revolt to another nation, and immediately disbanded all my ships whenever I got any. I used trade buildings (and the trade special buildings) to jack up my trade power instead and it worked. Even with Portugal and Byzantium sending big fleets over to steer trade I was making almost 400g a month in trade. I also never colonized; all my Diplo points were spent on the Diplomacy idea group, peace treaties, and trade buildings.

Incidentally, that game saw a mega-Byzantium. If I took a screenshot in the 1650's and asked people to guess which nation I was playing, that's what they would have guessed. They had control of all of Greece, Anatolia, the Holy Land, Egypt, and the south side of the Red Sea. I think Ethiopa did well (as they usually do in EG) then whoever formed Byzantium got them in a PU and annexed them. Meanwhile, I had like 8 provinces and a dozen vassals.

Honestly, that game was really fun. Bhutan's got a really shaky start, they're a OPM with a lovely province surrounded by 2-3 province minors with some 4-5 province tigers waiting in the grass, but they have (intentionally) overpowered national ideas as kind of a reward for getting that far. And making all of the money without even a hint of a navy was awesome.

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

double nine posted:

I'm playing as Japan, when I westernise I don't think I'll still be able to vassalise my weak-tech neighbours but be limited to protectorates. Is that correct, and if so are they worth it or should I simply annex the hell out of their territory? I've had amazing luck with personal unions in this game, so Ming, the Oirat Horde AND Bengal are my junior PU partners (and I managed to colonise the Russian steppes before Russia could find a way to the pacific ocean.

That is correct. Though when I did it, I didn't lose my one remaining vassal when I began westernising; I started before I pushed the button, and it finished during. If you want to own conquer their land at some point, don't bother with protectorates, just conquer the hell out of them.

Your PU partners are fine, but I'd start integrating them, since once you westernise, their military contribution to your adventures will be basically useless.

DentedLamp posted:

But I do that already. There aren't enough dip points. :negative:

England in a nutshell.

Between Exploration, Naval, Trade, and maybe even Expansion ideas, you're never going to have enough. But you should have plenty to be competitive in the New World, although I haven't actually tried a random world. I can usually lock up 50% of the Caribbean Islands in the normal start, and all of the Thirteen Colonies and Canada. So it does work, you'll just never be able to completely freeze out the Iberians.

Jackson Taus posted:

Your ruler is pretty young, so having your heir lead from (way far in) the front can get you a new heir, especially if you go Diplomatic Ideas early and have like 6 RMs. In terms of diplo-vassalization you're right - I could only DV most of the OPMs once I had Brandenburg+TO+Pommerania integrated.

I'm actually trying out a game with Diplo first, just for grins. As it happens my heir did die, and I got a 0/5/3 replacement which is pretty damned ideal for that. I'm actually most excited for the lack of stability hits on breaking RMs; the Hohenzollerns must be preserved, even if I have to break every RM I have and marry only Ansbach.

Baron Porkface posted:

Hot drat I just learned not to take a military group as your first idea thing. Now I know how the Persians felt in 300.

You can still pick military first, you just need to prioritize the techs. Especially for anyone who starts with a decent military monarch (France, Muscovy, Ottomans? Burgundy?). Though the only one that would be really worth it would be defensive; buy mil tech 4 first, then rush the first two ideas, then avoid wars until you catch up again.

Sockerbagarn posted:

I'm not sure why people were advocating for multiple strong allies for the Brandenburg start. Just ally with Austria and use them as your personal sledgehammer, this way you can take the Saxon territories from Bohemia as well without a pesky alliance getting in the way. By the time Poland gets angry enough to actually attack you, you should have Pommerania vassalized, a decent standing army and a tech edge which combined with Austria will make fights with them easy. You might as well attack them first if Austria will join the war.
When it comes to diplo-annexations you can do multiple at the same time, there's no ten year cooldown period between annexations. You have to wait ten years after you've vassalized someone to annex them but that's it.

Because any proper Brandenburg game should involve you turning into Prussia. Bonus points if you're not playing Ironman, because then you can change Prussia's colour to [0 49 83]. That means you'll for sure want Ostpreussen and either Warmia or Danzig. And it's much, much easier to get that territory if Poland is in your wars with you, because then you make sure they have truces at the same time as you.

Bohemia and Austria are just there to scare off Poland after you vassalize the TO, they're not actually necessary for anything. Just good to have friends. It's actually something of a more fun game if you don't buddy up with those guys, because then the AI will be more likely to jump on you and make your game challenging. But I won't recommend that to people who are asking for strategy advice.

You could wait till Poland eats the TO and then take it from them, but that's harder, because then you can't ever have the prettiest borders (Brandenburg + Eastern 2/3rds of Pommerania + Ostpreussen and maybe Warmia + Silesia) because military access will be a complete bitch unless you're willing to rely on boats.

PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Feb 4, 2014

420 Gank Mid
Dec 26, 2008

WARNING: This poster is a huge bitch!

PittTheElder posted:

you'll just never be able to completely freeze out the Iberians.


A friend of mine once told me he'd managed to stop Castille from getting a single Caribbean colony as England by sniping their little starting colony (Azores? Canaries? whatever tiny Atlantic island they begin with). And it took them the better half of a century to expand out of Spain from then on.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

PittTheElder
Feb 13, 2012

:geno: Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

I suppose that does work. If you can snatch the Azores, Canaries and Madeira then you're golden, but that's a tough task on it's own.

  • Locked thread