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Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Wanton Spoon posted:

Starcraft II is the game equivalent of a summer blockbuster movie, the same as most other big-budget games, and since the protagonist had something resembling a love interest in the previous game, they needed to play that up.

Even if it can be justified within the story in a roundabout way, it's still a pretty clear indication that they're not directing the game specifically towards their original audience anymore. Even if the story was bad anyway, it can still be disappointing if you were a part of that original audience, or prefer it when games are quirky and aren't making their stories as generic as possible for the sake of selling as many copies as possible (like me).

And just like other blockbuster games, there are plenty of things to get mad at. But I'll wait for that until they get to it.

I mostly enjoyed Wings of Liberty though. Even if (first thing to get mad at) Kerrigan's charactarisation is very back and forth, and wonky.

Also - the Intro namedrops that Brood War ended 4 years ago.
And Jim's been drinking a lot since then.

Veloxyll fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Feb 4, 2014

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Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Feinne posted:

Oh she is, she just also came a bit unhinged after the Lich King died because she wasn't sure what she had to exist for anymore. Then she recruited some lovely ladies who used to work for the Lich King and who could guarantee the future of the Forsaken at the cost of scaring the everliving poo poo out of everyone else because oh poo poo now there can be new Forsaken.

Jaina completely lost her loving poo poo after Theramore was blown up and Dalaran was used to launch a sneak attack on Darnassus to steal a creepy evil artifact that was being stored there, and we'll have to see if she chills the gently caress out or not as things develop.

Sylvanas will be kinda interesting now that she's not just going all "gently caress Garrosh". Or that messing with Garrosh doesn't pretty much automatically make her sympathetic.

Kerrigan makes some AMAZINGLY boneheaded decisions in HOTS.
But we should really wait until we actually get to meet Kerrigan before we go complaining about all the things she'll do. And all Raynor's flaws that'll emerge.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

So many derails. I don't think the thread has even really talked about resourcing or marines/medics or flexible bases.

The addition of a counter so you know how many SCVs you need for various harvesting tasks is a welcome addition. I have lost games because I didn't build enough SCVs. Or built too many.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Synastren posted:

HotS is a pure, old school expansion.

Coolguye is totally right about the absurd effectiveness of marine/medic, and Raldan and I discussed that very thing before starting this LP. We will be doing our best to avoid the boring shitstorm that "only using m/m" would become!

Also, drat, there are some people mad about early game aggression in this thread. I guess our first MP video shouldn't be how to do a 6pool or proxy 2rax. Back to the drawing board, Raldan!

ed:
Congrats! We have now "I am not a mod but..." posts on 2/3 pages! Great work, goons!

What about how to counter 6pool/proxy 2rax?
The best early harass SC2 vid was an amazing one where someone micro'd a scout scv to block the enemy's Command Centre for like 2 minutes. While still building back at base. It was beautiful (I don't recall the exact races)

Goons are literally the worst people.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Stims and Smash and Grab

We should see the third faction in the game for those people who are new to it all.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

As far as I know, Creep is usable by all zerg. Which used to (and probably still does) make for great fun with Nydus Canals

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

RareAcumen posted:

Man, now I can't wait to see these Protoss guys show up in the game. I really wish someone had done the First Starcraft game so I could get some backstory on this stuff and not have to ask a bunch of probably super-obvious questions. Cuz I'm so lost on this Queen of Blades stuff or who Jim Raynor is supposed to be. :psyduck:

See: The Draenei. "Sargeras was corrupted by the Eredar." became "The Eredar were corrupted by Sargeras. The few who resisted fled and became the Draenei."

Also Blood Elves are totally Space pirates.

Basically - Jim Raynor was Marshal on Mar Sara. Then the Zerg showed up, and the Confederacy didn't do anything about it. And imprisoned Jim + co when they fought the Zerg. Then the Sons of Korhal, led by Acturus Mensgk offered to help Jim evacuate the planet. During their campaign, Jim met one of the Sons' Ghosts, named Sarah Kerrigan. Turns out the Confederacy had a way to call the Swarm in on planets. Mengsk stole these and deployed some on Tarsonis, capital of the Confederacy. When Kerrigan was down there protecting the swarm from the Protoss while the swarm built up to critical mass, Mengsk abandoned Kerrigan.

Mengsk then declared himself Emperor of the new Terran Dominion.
Jim Raynor said nuts to that, stole the Dominion Flagship, and escaped Tarsonis.

The Zerg over-ran Tarsonis, and the Overmind applied Zerg Science to Kerrigan, and mutated her into the Queen of Blades. While this was happening, Kerrigan called out to Jim, where he got to see her emergence.

Then the Overmind died on the Protoss Homeworld, and after a succession crisis, Kerrigan took control of the Swarm. After the events of Broodwar, Kerrigan has been building up the Swarm for reasons.

I think that covers the major plot points.

Veloxyll fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Feb 8, 2014

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Coolguye posted:


World of Warcraft - Hey, you know what? Why don't you just tell me what you'd like to see and that'll become the new thing that's true.

As you can see, even before WoW, the Warcraft cosmology was completely hosed up and the books in support of the mythos only make it worse. The attitude in WoW where people just give the gently caress up and bend to popular opinion 90% of the time was really just the logical conclusion of where they were always going.

Remember how the Blood Elves, the survivors of Dalaran and Quel'Thalas after the undead and demons wrecked both joints, were addicted to magic and stuff.

Well, turns out the Elves that Jaina took to Kalimdor didn't have any of these problems. So they are still as arrogant as Second War Elves with none of the hubris that makes the Space Pirate Blood Elves remotely likable.

This will no doubt all be retconned in the next WoW expansion.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Sunning posted:

The Zerg generals called Cerebrates are reincarnated if they are killed by conventional means. However, they can be permanently killed if a Protoss Dark Templar destroys them. The Dark Templar are the untouchable caste of the Protoss due to their religious differences. They can can kill celebrates by severing the Overmind's connection to them. If a Celebrate dies, its Zerg brood goes on a rampage.

Is that still the case in Broodwar etc though. Zeratul had to kill the new Overmind just like Tassadar had to kill the old one, but without an overmind, would they still come back from the dead?
Kerrigan says that the Overmind reincarnates them in original SC.

Though I guess it's a moot point at this time, since by now all the Cerebrates are dead.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Stabiliser Medpacks and Smash and Grab Gotta get all the bulky infantry.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Wait, wait. Daikatana had a PLOT?

I must've missed that in between all the rest of the awfulness that it was.

Also, we've already met the worst written character in SC2.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

JT Jag posted:

Guys, the OP says no spoilers for stuff we haven't gotten to, but this thread is just packed with cute allusions to future events that people who haven't played the game might still figure out, and a few outright spoilers as to content from Heart of the Swarm. I for one would appreciate it if people throttled back on that.

Goons are the worst people. Also, there are many things that very poor in the game. Will try to avoid spoilers (besides basic unit discussions of what's on offer) in the future.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Concussive Shells because who doesn't like bombs that slow?

Shrike turrets Because then the bunkers they give you can contribute. Plus the correct solution is always more dakka.

And uh. Outbreak so we can get another new building.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Nightdew posted:

The one I thought of immediately went to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mPGYeuU2Oc

That was beautiful.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Even when one of them was boss enough to take on Artanis, the UED and the Dominion while Kerrigan had the rest of the Swarm Planetside.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Phelddagrif posted:

That cinematic was actually a massive letdown for me, just because we never see that character take the form he did in Brood War.

That cinematic set up the thing that made me maddest about HOTS.

Besides Kerrigan not having a pack of 'Lings with her at all times, at any rate.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

I would legit play a Zeratul Dating game.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Kurieg posted:

Well, he started off as a whiny suicidal nobody who thought his father was a monster. Then we showed him that while his father was a monster, he made large strides towards redeeming himself and his race from their past sins and became a Hero in death.

Of course he's got the attention span of a kumquat and at some point forgot about the "Honor, in all things, never forsake it" part and short circuited the his logic to "POWER = HEROISM" and proceeded to turn half his race into horrifying tentacled monstrosities but it wasn't Demons so it's okay.


Not to turn this into WoW Chat but this is mostly true. The issue is that his 'descent into evil' has been punctuated by him nuking an alliance city into radioactive magic vapor and loving up an entire continents ecosystem for the next hundred years at least. There's a big long quest line where you find out all this shady poo poo he's done and people he's murdered and when you bring it to light they're just like "Well yeah he's evil but he's the warchief now whatya gonna do :shrug:" When the alliance finally stormed into Orgrimmar and forcibly dethroned him they showed their might to the world by... imprisoning him and giving the city back to the Orcs.

Thrall's magical girl wedding was already a bit over the top but I think even the Horde players are getting tired of Metzin's unsatiable orc-lust, considering we've got an expansion where the plot is 'Once again Garrosh escapes the consequences of his actions and makes an even better horde for you to fight us to gush lore about for the next two years.'

Basically Metzen loves his themes of corruption and redemption and will defy all logic and reason to ensure they get to play out, he also loves Orcs.

Orgrimmar was only a setback!
Dear Blizzard. You have all the money. Please hire someone else to write your games kthx.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Samuel posted:

I don't see why a woman can't be sexy or cannot be allowed to be a victim in any way shape or form, for her to be a "good" female character. I'll agree that Kerrigan isn't exactly a shining example of deep heart wrenching intrigue, but the circumstances you illustrate cut off a lion's share of characters ever created for the sake of "someone might feel lustful", and then proceed to highlight X-men for a broad range of characters which is a bootylicious series to say the least and conforms highly to the categories you mentioned.
I should also highlight Kerrigan started out as anything but the epitome of dead sexay. (depending on who you ask I reckon)


(And also manage to forget the best lady in SC2!~)(personal preference)

It's not really a problem since their games are still being played, and paid for. Yeah their writing might not be up to snuff, but that's in general.
And general writing is difficult, and people fail to appreciate a good editor to read over your stuff and have a good discussion with to improve it, I think the gaming industry could benefit from editors.

I'll also add that any female character ever written will suffer the criticism of woman everywhere for not being "X Y Z enough" or for not being written by a (prominent) female person.
Which in todays world is taken to such extremes that nothing can be written at all without opening the bloodgates. This reminds me of the Last of us LP where people burst from the woodwork because Ellie wasn't enough of a killing machine ubermensch, and was actually exposed to danger to her person which she could not instantly overcome. :psyduck:

Truly heinous writing is everywhere to the right spectator.
Again I won't argue Kerrigan's design is wierd and her story forced, but you see where I'm taking this I hope.

You're taking it to Mysogyny is okay because uh?
The problem is that women in stories are almost ALWAYS made to look sexy and be the victim. Even when it's their own story (Yes, I'm talking about HOTS, but I'll wait till that game's over to go in specifics there.)
Even Lara Croft in the latest Tomb Raider game/reboot has to save a damsel in distress.
For Samus, two words: OTHER M.
Ellie in The Last of Us turns out okay as a character. Which reminds me, must get around ti finishing watching that LP.

And Comic books, HA! Practically every big name comic book heroine gets stuffed into a fridge at some point during her career.

The problem isn't that women are being made sexy and victimised.
The problem is that women ALWAYS get written/portrayed as being sexy/victims. Blizzard has more money than most, and yet they still only write sexy victim females. Even Tosh gets to be a bit vague and mysterious - ie not a typical black person. But the ladies. Nope, no character allowed!

Since the next update is I think the last in the colonist arc, I'll save my criticism of one of the other female characters till after that.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Xoidanor posted:

Yeah the ending of Brood Wars was brutal to the UED. The final mission is everyone left in the universe binding together against Kerrigan above Char and failing. It literally ends on the UED admiral writing a letter for his wife and shooting himself in the head.

That maybe never arrives because I got the impression Kerrigan ambushed the fleet in deep space and annihilated it.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Poil posted:

To be fair the difficulty isn't consistent. Some missions can be ballbreaking on hard and others are a breeze even on brutal.

It should have arrived if he pressed the send button before pulling the trigger.

Given that he was using a grammaphone, this isn't certain.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

The_Frag_Man posted:

Do they use up supply? Do they generate creep?

No and No.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

GenericOverusedName posted:

Additionally, zerg units move more quickly on creep. They don't regenerate health more quickly on it; I don't know if that was the case in BW but it's a common misconception that people have.

I think it was in both Broodwar and HOTS. Thus people think that the single player game works the same as multiplayer.

(Apologies if that was a bit condescending. I've come straight from complaining about the government. Certain attitudes take a few minutes to disperse)

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

RareAcumen posted:

Okay, guess I hosed up. I mean NPCs or partner characters that fight with you. Y'know, people who you don't play as and don't get a face?

Tali Zora vas Normandy.. I'm sure if it wasn't 3:20 AM I could come up with a few more.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

"Diamond Backs are underwhelming"
That sums up the unit.

Oh man! I forgot about the Adjutant.
WHY DOES SHE HAVE BOOBS. WHAT MECHANICAL FUNCTION DO THEY SERVE.

It amused me when your co-comentator talked about you getting your hands on her. It was

I love Predators thematically. Because murderkitties :3

Veloxyll fucked around with this message at 04:04 on May 16, 2014

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Breakout and Help Nova because I may have forgotten about her )admittedly minor) role in the story.
Also she gets the better cutscene.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

I can't make fun of him, because I have a Fire Prism I haven't made fun of.

Also I recall the DTs in Original/Brood War had Dark sabres. So maybe Blizz'll be super lazy and have 3 different DT models.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

I more meant that they're an actual sword, not a wristbladey thing. I just forgot they had an actual name because it's been ages since I've played Starcraft.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

The Door Frame posted:

I think that was the mission that made me hate the memory missions, the big bad endlessly taunting you and throwing himself at your base is really annoying. His design is kinda cool though

I never knew about the dragoons -> immortals thing, is there an in universe explanation for reavers disappearing or are they just gone for reasons?


The StarCraft wiki says it's a modified psi blade, and that they're all like Zeratul's wrist blade, but I do remember it being cooler than that in my head

Really? I swear they made choppy sword motions with it.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Scalding Coffee posted:

The information that planet holds are banned from Protoss eyes. Advanced societies tend to not resort to such storage. Are the Protoss technologically advanced and religious like those Warhammer 40K guys?

Kinda. Tassadar got Excommunicated and branded a heretic for a) not just burning Terran worlds (which lead to Tarsonis), and b) consorting with Dark Templar. Aldaris's words pretty much said "Consort with those guys, you're a Heretic. Now get out!"

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Cythereal posted:

You think it's bad now? Believe me, it gets worse. :v:

And that's not even considering HOTS!

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

As for more APM with SCV reactor. He would just right click on a mineral pile at the start of the game, and mash S more with SCV reactor.

Auto-refineries just make Gas less of an issue.

As for Heart of the Swarm.
Jumping. Banelings.
This alone makes the game worth $10. Ditto zerglings. I think I ended up using lings right through the campaign just because they are adorable as heck.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Also so you don't have to leave them around stealthed/watch them like a hawk while you're doing other stuff.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Poil posted:

But to be fair, no one has actually given away any plot.

WHat plot? :p

Though still. The names of characters etc is kinda borderline spoiler territory.

Purge. I like the ending more.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Fire Storm posted:

Save the colonists.
We'll feed the purging fires in the outtake video.

Enchantment?

That one is more "No village was ever ruined by trade" than "Enchantment"

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Ebola makes you get sick and die.

Infestation makes you into a zerg spy who tries to spread the infestation to the entire species.

And/or makes you explode violently.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

They both have absurdly pointy heads/hats. If you try, you'll be able to say THIS IS JUST LIKE IN 40K. Regardless of what we're talking about.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Just helmets. So many helmets.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Given their casualty rates, Starship Troopers would be more like Guardsmen. But they don't shoot glowlights so the comparison breaks down there.

Also no cathedral ships.

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Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

apostateCourier posted:

Ripwave Missiles and Advanced Medic Facilities for purchases
Ripwave missiles make a really good anti-air unit into a completely bonkers one. The second one lets you build medics out of reactor barracks, which is also completely bonkers.

Psi Disruptor for research. The other one falls flat because what's the point of grabbing one zerg unit out of a massive swarm?

Banelings.

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