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HMS Boromir
Jul 16, 2011

by Lowtax
There's also our charging friends the 'lids and the 'zerkers. I feel like towards the end of the game the only things likely to be in cover at all are Mutons.

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RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Jade Star posted:

No they don't. They count as Flying, which gets them 20 defense. They still work just fine for ITZ.

Enemies that don't care about cover; Floaters when flying, drones, cyber disks, chrysalids, berserkers, mechtoids, etherials, seekers, sctopods, heavy floaters when flying... Yeah i think thats all of them. Nope! Zombies! Almost forgot them.

Right, but if you've just triggered them, how likely are they to be flying as opposed to in cover (can cyberdiscs take cover at all)? Forgot about berserkers and chryssalids and had no idea about ethereals though, so that's better. I suppose with collateral damage it's more of a sure thing, too.

Jade Star
Jul 15, 2002

It burns when I LP

TheCosmicMuffet posted:

Yes, you don't cap aim. You cap hit chance. How you go about doing that will never come down to a difference of 6% aim.

What? Why can't I up a 94% shot to 100%?

quote:

On paper 6/100 is 1 in 20 shots connecting that otherwise would have missed. In reality that number is a couple orders of magnitude smaller, since it will *only* make a difference when you have not already done something else to make the benefit irrelevant.

No. It will not make a difference *only* if you haven't already done something else. Aim is still aim, even if you blow away the cover, flank, or do something else. An 80 aim soldier will still miss 20% of the time on a flanked target. Flanking or removing cover doesn't make you more accurate, it only removes the penalties from cover. If you don't have 100 aim you wont even be able to hit a perfectly exposed target 100% of the time, range bonuses not applying.

Also if you have enough aim you don't need to have 'already done something else'. If you have enough aim, gently caress flanking something or exploding its cover. If I can shoot it through its low cover than why bother moving forward and risk revealing more idle aliens? If I can shoot it through its cover why waste a grenade or rocket blowing away its cover? Having more aim saves you resources.

quote:

You have to plan around missing anyway, and the aim bonus from this thing won't change your plans.

What? Yes. Yes it will. A +/-10% chance to secure a kill on a given shot will certainly influence my plans.

quote:

Aim will never help with explosives, psychic powers, or the arc thrower: making the difference the medal will make smaller.

Willpower will never help with two out of your three examples either.

quote:

But that doesn't argue well for a 6-8 aim buff on some of your soldiers. Incremental aim bonuses are less valuable in the late game, because the amount of aim required has increased.

You keep saying 6-8 aim. Why are you trying to undersell the medal's Aim bonus? It's going to be +10. It's a trivial matter to get all five continents and you keep listing it as less that 10. By late game you should definitely have all five.
As for incremental aim bonuses are less valuable late game, does that mean you stop using scopes late game? This baffles me.

quote:

I use the medals early on to shore up the panic problem. I give this one to higher will guys to help fortify them until they level enough to be immune to getting scared, and give the panic-immunity one to the low will guys who will never stop being a liability otherwise.

Here's the only part of your argument I like. If you have panic issues and need a stopgap measure to deal with that, then you're fine. Do this. But I think it's a terrible waste of an other wise much more useful bonus. You only get 5 of these medals tops, and if our goal is to bolster willpower on panicking troops than buy Lead By Example from the OTS. Boom, instant huge will upgrade for all of your lower soldiers. And it's available for purchase at about the same time you have 2-3 of these medals to give out.

Jade Star fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Feb 11, 2014

Brainamp
Sep 4, 2011

More Zen than Zenyatta

RBA Starblade posted:

Right, but if you've just triggered them, how likely are they to be flying as opposed to in cover (can cyberdiscs take cover at all)? Forgot about berserkers and chryssalids and had no idea about ethereals though, so that's better. I suppose with collateral damage it's more of a sure thing, too.

Floaters will just as likely start flying as hop into cover. And no, cyberdiscs cannot take cover.

RBA Starblade posted:

True, but I'd probably just finish those guys off with my mec or assault anyway. With snapshot/ITZ you only need to use one soldier to knock the group out, instead of two (assuming you don't miss).

You're missing the point. You don't need to flank, the enemy just needs to not have cover. Grenades, rockets, and collateral damage all provide set ups that don't require a sniper to move in.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Brainamp posted:

You're missing the point. You don't need to flank, the enemy just needs to not have cover. Grenades, rockets, and collateral damage all provide set ups that don't require a sniper to move in.

I know, but that still requires the sniper plus at least one other unit to take that cover out, potentially more if it doesn't break the cover the first time, if it can even be damaged. With snapshot the sniper can just move and shoot, leaving the other members to clean up if the sniper misses or doesn't do enough damage to kill, and ITZ only triggers if you actually get the kill. With double tap it's a guaranteed two shots. The difference to me is that double tap is guaranteed, but its best will always be less than the best you can potentially get out of ITZ. Since I usually keep my sniper in a static position with squadsight, I usually get more mileage out of double tap on them.

Jade Star
Jul 15, 2002

It burns when I LP

RBA Starblade posted:

Since I usually keep my sniper in a static position with squadsight, I usually get more mileage out of double tap on them.

I used to think just like you. Then Guava talked me into using ITZ once.

Okay I seriously need to put out the next update so we all shut up about Colonel level skill choices when it's still March in game.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
ITZ and Doubletap both have uses, but the first time you chain a series of kills with ITZ you'll never want to go back. Ask me about the time when I basically finished an entire terror mission in two turns thanks to an assault's "shoot at anything inside of 4 spaces" skill and an ITZ sniper. Oh, wait, you don't have to, since that's basically it.


double-tap is straightforward and reliable, it's a sensible choice on that ground. ITZ requires a little more situational preparation, but it's prep you as a player can easily control. It only feels less reliable than DT, but it's really not. It's chosing "do I get 2 shots always" or "do I almost always get 2 shots with the occasional bout of six"

ZenVulgarity
Oct 9, 2012

I made the hat by transforming my zen

Jade Star posted:

I used to think just like you. Then Guava talked me into using ITZ once.

Okay I seriously need to put out the next update so we all shut up about Colonel level skill choices when it's still March in game.

This wouldn't be an issue with Training Roulette. :colbert:

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
Really I've always considered the fights over how to build your snipers to be indicative of good game design. If both camps of people have had so many good experiences with it, then clearly neither of them are worthless. It therefore provides a quality alternative choice where neither route is objectively 'bad'. Isn't that the point of build choices in the first place?

Brainamp
Sep 4, 2011

More Zen than Zenyatta

Psion posted:

"do I get 2 shots always"

Every other turn. :ssh:


Jade Star posted:

Colonel level skill choices when it's still March in game.

That reminds me. One of my favorite changes in EW is that it takes so much longer to level up people. Yeah, it might be harder, but it feels better compared to EU where a rookie could be a colonel in like a month.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Brainamp posted:

Every other turn. :ssh:

oh right. Yeah, that's even more annoying.

Stallion Cabana
Feb 14, 2012
1; Get into Grad School

2; Become better at playing Tabletop, both as a player and as a GM/ST/W/E

3; Get rid of this goddamn avatar.

ReturnOfFable posted:

I live in Florida, probably one of the craziest places in the south and I have never in my life seen a drive-through daiquiri place.

My city has 3. Welcome to Louisiana.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Jade Star posted:

What? Why can't I up a 94% shot to 100%?

What? Yes. Yes it will. A +/-10% chance to secure a kill on a given shot will certainly influence my plans.

You keep saying 6-8 aim. Why are you trying to undersell the medal's Aim bonus? It's going to be +10. It's a trivial matter to get all five continents and you keep listing it as less that 10. By late game you should definitely have all five.
As for incremental aim bonuses are less valuable late game, does that mean you stop using scopes late game? This baffles me.

Well I understand where you're coming from. I think the trick is that aim penalties and bonuses are balanced around increments of 10. So less than 10, while it helps, doesn't ever get you the critical difference needed to hit 100. In order to do that, you need to seek out some terrain advantage or other piece of equipment, which give you benefits in increments of 10, so the medal doesn't show up as making a difference. Otherwise, you just take your chances, and when you do that, increments less than 10% get washed out by the change in odds of having multiple people fire at the same target (because e.g. 96% chances to hit vs 90% you've got .15% chance the first pair both miss vs 1% chance the second pair both miss, the difference, practically would only be noticeable over 1000s of such situations--and noticeable is kind of a misnomer in that case).

I mean, let's math the poo poo out of this for a little bit.
Hidden potential growth
Heavy : 0-2 Aim per level
Assault : 1-5 Aim per level
Support : 2-6 Aim per level
Sniper : 3-9 Aim per level

Our guys (now)-(after a month assuming a promotion)-(with scope)-(against light cover)-(against heavy cover)
Nittien sniper 87-(90-96)-(100-106)-(80-86)-(60-66)
Ricky sniper 83-(86-92)-(96-102)-(76-82)-(56-62)
finn sniper 77-(80-86)-(90-96)-(70-76)-(50-56)
tony support 91-(93-97)-(103-107)-(83-87)-(63-67)
hilda support 76-(78-82)-(88-92)-(68-72)-(48-47)
catalina assault 80-(81-85)-(91-95)-(71-75)-(51-55)
ragnar heavy 67-(67-69)-(77-79)-(57-59)-(37-39)

So looking at that, what would 4 points (a generous interpretation of where you'll be because I'm kind of assuming you'll hold satellites until the end of the month, missing out on the benefit through the month--and I know I'm being conservative with the promotions, but I think it makes sense given how you don't know if the medal wearer will be injured and out of the rotation for a couple fights).

On catalina, it might, if she was close enough to avoid the shotgun aim penalty, with a scope, help her guarantee a hit when she flanked someone. It could put finn over the edge in terms of guaranteeing a hit on someone out of cover. In another couple of promotions, it could make the difference on guaranteeing hits in light cover for Nittien or Tony. So that's month 3 to see that benefit. Fair enough--could be worth it to have a couple guaranteed light-cover shooters. If they had height, then they'd even be guaranteed through full cover, assuming the hidden potential rolls high enough.

I undersell the total benefit of the medal because that's month 4 and later, and by that time, even the full 10% buff it gives figures less into how you play. Because then you've got rapid fire, double tap, bullet swarm, extra rockets, deep pockets, holo targeting, high ground whenever you want it thanks to grapple or springy legs or jet boots, etc etc. Let's say Ragnar is alive and promoted in month 4. I'm going to ball park him at having accumulated 6 extra points of accuracy from all that, and he'll be at 73 base. 83 because I'm sure you'll have a scope on him. Let's say he has bullet swarm, and you give him the second-chance eyes, and you can plan on his second shot always being 93, and he has holotargeting, so it's 103. He's already guaranteed to hit through partial cover from high ground, and anyone in the open/flanked. If he had the eye benefit and the medal, he's still be at 63 against a chryssalid on overwatch. Even with bad RNG, he could be at 60, and with spectacular RNG he could be at 66. The range of possibility isn't wide enough to catapult him into hitting guys in heavy cover, and he'll be able to deal with partial cover without the medal.

The assaults aren't going to need it, because they'll be running up and getting a bonus of 10-35 from being close, and probably flanking on top of it. The support monster is going to be past the light cover threshold almost certainly, without help, and I wouldn't think you'd be so hard up for options that his ability to guarantee hits through heavy cover from high ground would make the difference to your plans.

So the aim feature of the medal doesn't come into its own until after the point when you'll be free to rely on things other than taking a chance on a shot through cover--at any rate, you'll still be doing that, but you'll be able to get away with it more often because you'll fall back on other stuff.

If the game had a smooth gradient of aim bonuses and penalties, then I'd definitely be much more inclined to try the aim.

Obviously there's 2 points here. I see you play conservatively, so to me, the chance that you might try something crazy and hope it works doesn't figure in--I assume you want the guaranteed hit, which means getting through set points of defense and aim penalty. The other point is that I discount having to take a chance on a single shot, because even though you'll be doing it, bad RNG and :xcom: are going to mean you can't plan around incorporating this medal as a part of your tactics. I'm not sure it would even qualify as a useful buffer in any way. Will may not *either* except that the consequences of missing a shot aren't as awful as the consequences of a key soldier panicking, especially if they shoot your own guy.

Which is why all I said the first time was that aim is nice to have but won't make a difference until the difference it makes isn't noticeable, whereas the will bonus might prevent a wipe, and shores up an area you have less control over.

Anywho, you could keep doing the math on the late game stat ranges for your guys and find a couple where it would get them past the mutons-in-partial-cover/sectopod -30 or the full-cover/sectoid-commander-in-partial-cover/ethereal -40. You'll have tons of ways to deal with cyberdisk, berserker, flying floater, and whoever else in partial cover penalties. If that's how you're planning it, fine. But you're going to have to keep the medals in reserve until you see how the RNG on the hidden potential works out, to avoid wasting the medal on someone where it won't get them past the threshold of RNG to guaranteed hit.

I just think you can use it now, and it will help, whereas later, only maybe will it make a difference. It's not a marathon game, either, so I don't think that, later, the medal's full benefit will more than make up for the ramp up time because it will provide the benefit forever.

Edit: 'going to have to' just means 'IMO to make the best use of it'.

TheCosmicMuffet fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Feb 11, 2014

Pyroi
Aug 17, 2013

gay elf noises

Stallion Cabana posted:

My city has 3. Welcome to Louisiana.

And yet, in Louisiana at least, I've only seen one drive-through ATM. It's all pneumatic tubes around me.

Stallion Cabana
Feb 14, 2012
1; Get into Grad School

2; Become better at playing Tabletop, both as a player and as a GM/ST/W/E

3; Get rid of this goddamn avatar.

Pyroi posted:

And yet, in Louisiana at least, I've only seen one drive-through ATM. It's all pneumatic tubes around me.

All of our banks have drive-through ATMS. Odd.

Anyway Xcom is fun and this is hopefully making me better at the game by watching and listening so thanks for that.

biosterous
Feb 23, 2013




Nicknames! Are nicknames listed in the middle of the name (ie. Kyle "The Yellow Dart" Smith)? If so, Tony White should have the nickname "Black &", because I love dumb jokes.

If not I have no suggestion.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

biosterous posted:

Nicknames! Are nicknames listed in the middle of the name (ie. Kyle "The Yellow Dart" Smith)? If so, Tony White should have the nickname "Black &", because I love dumb jokes.

If not I have no suggestion.

Nicknames replace the soldiers last name as the name attached to the character in battle, so they should be able to stand alone.

Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011



This would probably be better placed in the Games thread, but last night I found a new appreciation for explosives. Landed large scout UFO full of Floaters. I triggered six at once and wiped them out with a single rocket. :getin:

Never mind the fact that I am a terrible baby who plays on Easy with Save Scum enabled. :saddowns:

Monkey Fracas
Sep 11, 2010

...but then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you!
Grimey Drawer

Bloody Pom posted:

This would probably be better placed in the Games thread, but last night I found a new appreciation for explosives. Landed large scout UFO full of Floaters. I triggered six at once and wiped them out with a single rocket. :getin:

Never mind the fact that I am a terrible baby who plays on Easy with Save Scum enabled. :saddowns:

BUT YOU'RE DESTROYING SO MANY FRAGMENTS

Green Intern
Dec 29, 2008

Loon, Crazy and Laughable

Ricky "Thunderson" Gunderson.

Edit: I feel like Jade is playing under the assumption that if his soldiers are getting shot and panicking, he's doing something terribly wrong. And that is correct.

If your dudes are getting hit more than that are hitting, you're losing the war.

Green Intern fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Feb 11, 2014

Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011



Monkey Fracas posted:

BUT YOU'RE DESTROYING SO MANY FRAGMENTS

I'm playing on Easy. A shortage of resources is not one of the problems I'm facing. I did at least stun the one survivor!

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all
Have each soldier's nickname add up to enough syllables to form a haiku when matched with the rest of their squad.

Monkey Fracas
Sep 11, 2010

...but then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you!
Grimey Drawer

Bloody Pom posted:

I'm playing on Easy. A shortage of resources is not one of the problems I'm facing. I did at least stun the one survivor!

I can hardly ever resist just vaporizing more than 3 aliens at once with a rocket from across the map before they know what's going on. Just toooo tempting.

El Perkele
Nov 7, 2002

I HAVE SHIT OPINIONS ON STAR WARS MOVIES!!!

I can't even call the right one bad.

Jade Star posted:

This post doesn't require Snapshot. It's listing reasons why other skills are great on a sniper, and makes the presumption they're adding value to a snapshot sniper that wouldn't be there with squad sight. There is no reason a squad sight sniper can't have ITZ, or disabling shot. If things get close quarters a Squad Sight sniper could use gun slinger and be arguably be more effective than snap shot. My argument there is that sniper rifles take huge aim penalties at close range, so stack that with snapshot and you could be upwards of -10-50% to hit with a snap shot rifle or +0-40% with a pistol due to range modifiers. He said CQC, which means close quarters, so I won't accept 'But I'd use the sniper rifle at that range' as an answer. If it was far enough for a snap shot sniper to use its rifle with out massive range penalties, then so could a squad sight.

It requires Snapshot because such a build emphasizes mobility, which a Squadsighter cannot achieve. A Squadsight sniper is always dependent on someone else's FoV and cannot crit - if you move it ahead, it becomes highly vulnerable since it cannot move and engage meaningfully, whereas a mobile snapshotter can more often take the first action. With a significantly powerful weapon as well! At close quarters a Squadsight sniper is even more situational than a Scout/Disarm snapsniper. A Squadsighter can DS and it can activate ITZ, but is nowhere near as useful as a Snapshot in bases, smaller UFOs and other close quarters missions, which Enemy Within has more than Enemy Unknown. Combined with the removal of Squadsnipe critical, the choice is less "better/worse" and more "assault/standoff".

The range tradeoff is of course there. But so is the very significant possibility of losing one Plasma Sniper shot at the beginning of the firefight.

Chard
Aug 24, 2010




Monkey Fracas posted:

I can hardly ever resist just vaporizing more than 3 aliens at once with a rocket from across the map before they know what's going on. Just toooo tempting.

Those are usually the moments the game remembers that 10% miss chance on rockets, so my heavy decides to hold his launcher backwards and waste half my team :v:

DatonKallandor
Aug 21, 2009

"I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."
Speaking of rocket miss chance - it's really great that EW got rid of Thin Men having 100% accuracy on their poison spit.

Jade Star
Jul 15, 2002

It burns when I LP

Very cool break down, but I'm still not getting it. In the table you provided there are tons of values where an extra 6-10% hit chance would be beneficial.

Also ergh I forgot how bad Heavy Aim growth is even on hidden potential. Guess that's why I really wanted a 80 aim rookie to go heavy and not a 65 Aim rookie.


El Perkele posted:

It requires Snapshot because such a build emphasizes mobility

This is still not a requirement. It's still other skills being spoken of that can be utilized by both Snap and Sight to effect. And the close quarters argument continues to be unimpressive. At close range a Snapshot is eating skill penalties and range penalties. Better to have a pistol. I will try to remember in the future videos to discuss how I handle Squadsight around tight spaces like UFOs and whether or not squadsight or snap would even make a difference.

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10
Dang, missed this thing for a week. I'll get to work on my application straight away, assuming you haven't decided to stop accepting them already.

Jade Star posted:

Also ergh I forgot how bad Heavy Aim growth is even on hidden potential. Guess that's why I really wanted a 80 aim rookie to go heavy and not a 65 Aim rookie.

:eng101: Actually, Hidden Potential just straight up fucks Heavies' Aim, since regular Heavy Aim Growth is 2 points per rank (provided they didn't change that with EW). Obviously Hidden Potential's Heavy Aim Growth at 0-2 points per rank does not compare favorably.
On occasion I've even had Heavies who ended up with the same Aim at Colonel as they had at Rookie. :negative:

Again assuming they didn't change things with EW, Hidden Potential is an obvious benefit to Assaults (1-5 should produce about evenly compared to a flat 3, but you can cherry-pick the people who get lucky) and to Psionics (the Psi Lab will cherry-pick high Will for you...mostly), but it runs a risk on Supports (2-6 vs. 5) and Snipers (3-9 vs. 7), and kicks Heavies in a spot that doesn't really need kicking.

Stallion Cabana
Feb 14, 2012
1; Get into Grad School

2; Become better at playing Tabletop, both as a player and as a GM/ST/W/E

3; Get rid of this goddamn avatar.
Hidden Potential sounds like a net negative then, with almost no chance for a 'higher' result over a lesser one.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Cheating at a raffle? I sentence you to 1 year in jail! No! Two years! Three! Four! Five years! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah!
Somebody call for an ant?

He didn't mention mechs however, whom havea range of 0-6 as compared to their normal growth of 2

Momplestiltskin
Jan 15, 2014

Got any extra firstborns?
My personal preference is to use Not Created Equal but leave Hidden Potential off. It makes sense to me that soldiers all come in with different base abilities, but IMO training and experience is going to improve people more or less the same. If you're looking at it purely from a game perspective it just seems like a good way to either screw yourself with luck or give yourself god soldiers with luck. I'd rather not have my success determined by purely random chance.

Sojenus
Dec 28, 2008

All I know is when I tried using Squadsight over Snap Shot after playing through the game using only the latter, I got frustrated with how many turns I had to waste positioning the sniper (assuming any given map had good perches at all) and even then rarely getting more than a single shot off before the rest of the team killed off the enemies and I'd have to either reposition the sniper or just leave it in the perch and hope the next batch of aliens that pop up stay in LOS. Only once I got the flying armor was it any fun to use compared to the more mobile option. I'm not sure if difficulty level plays into the choice at all though, since I only ever played classic and never played the base version, but it just wasn't fun to play with like Snap Shot was.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Felinoid posted:

:eng101: Actually, Hidden Potential just straight up fucks Heavies' Aim, since regular Heavy Aim Growth is 2 points per rank (provided they didn't change that with EW). Obviously Hidden Potential's Heavy Aim Growth at 0-2 points per rank does not compare favorably.

This explains a lot about my EW heavies. I still like having NCE, TR, and HP on at once though, it's more fun to have a crapshoot of units. Though, it seems like NCE trends more towards lovely rookies than better ones.

Jade Star
Jul 15, 2002

It burns when I LP

Felinoid posted:

Again assuming they didn't change things with EW, Hidden Potential is an obvious benefit to Assaults (1-5 should produce about evenly compared to a flat 3, but you can cherry-pick the people who get lucky) and to Psionics (the Psi Lab will cherry-pick high Will for you...mostly), but it runs a risk on Supports (2-6 vs. 5) and Snipers (3-9 vs. 7), and kicks Heavies in a spot that doesn't really need kicking.

These values are all wrong. Or at least they are for EW. Not a single class actually gets a flat growth rate. Listed stat growth by rank for EW.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Jade Star posted:

Very cool break down, but I'm still not getting it. In the table you provided there are tons of values where an extra 6-10% hit chance would be beneficial.

Ok. If you don't think the risk of panic is a problem, then I think you wait until the medal is +4, and you put it on Ricky if her next level doesn't bump her over 90 naturally. Then wait until the medal is +8 or more, and put it on Hilda if she doesn't do the same, and Tony if you can get him to 110 base. Like FoolyCharged mentioned, MEC is a better bet for a lovely heavy, so bench ragnar until he can be turned into a MEC and give a medal to him if he ever cracks 90 (which ah... he's a squaddie right now at 67, and the MEC growth is 6 at most--so he might make 91 as a captain if you're lucky).

As is, the snipers you've got will be more than good enough on their own, and your heavy isn't on the edge where you can help him out. You've got one MVP sniper who doesn't need it, and the assault will be fine with the close-in bonus. I kind of think you're going to end up with extra medals you won't put on anyone because they won't give you a benefit.

Alternatively, you could soldier-SCUM a bit in month 2 to try to find some better candidates, then Aim medal could help you shore up a borderline recruit instead of recycling them. Though it'd be nice to have officer training so you could get them as squaddies and not deal with having to rotate them through the roster just to see if you like them.

I guess a panic spiral would actually be a great way to show off SHIVs and get some more goons in the game. So what do I know.

I'm still going to pick Will on my games :D

Also you're on classic, so I wonder if you won't end up losing at least one country. Sometimes the luck of the draw on abduction missions and Exalt fuckery just doesn't go your way. This is an LP, which should mean that murphy's law of the internet is in full effect.

TheCosmicMuffet fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Feb 12, 2014

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10

Jade Star posted:

These values are all wrong. Or at least they are for EW. Not a single class actually gets a flat growth rate. Listed stat growth by rank for EW.

Huh. At first looking at Assault I thought maybe I simply hadn't noticed the points where it varied, but I'm fairly certain that the rest did not behave like that at all in my game (at least before I started using Hidden Potential). I checked most if not all of the ranks for each class before chalking it up to a flat rate, and I would have noticed supports or snipers getting only 3 Aim for the majority of their ranks. Which is all the more peculiar because the gamefaqs post it's taking all this from is dated more than a year before Enemy Within's release. The only thing I can think of is that maybe having Not Created Equally on shifts it somehow (since I always did and he didn't), but that would be rather silly to bother to code in. I'll have to test it again, I guess.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Jade Star posted:

These values are all wrong. Or at least they are for EW. Not a single class actually gets a flat growth rate. Listed stat growth by rank for EW.

Am I missing something - those are all flat growth ranks for aim for each class (and seem to track the flat scores below)?
http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Soldiers_(EU2012)#Ranks

E: or did you mean that each rankup was not flat, but that each promotion (Rookie -> Squaddie, Squaddie -> Corporal, etc.) was flat?

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10

ulmont posted:

Am I missing something - those are all flat growth ranks for aim for each class (and seem to track the flat scores below)?
http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Soldiers_(EU2012)#Ranks

E: or did you mean that each rankup was not flat, but that each promotion (Rookie -> Squaddie, Squaddie -> Corporal, etc.) was flat?

The latter. Fixed but not flat. Initial testing seems to confirm the listed growths rather than what I'd thought. I haven't the foggiest how my methodology could have slipped that badly when I looked into it back then. The snipers should have been bloody obvious. v:confused:v

That said, if we look at the actual fixed growths, Heavies still take a small hit (1 average instead of 1.4 average), Assaults do too (3 average instead of 3.4 average), and it slightly benefits Supports and Snipers (4 vs. 3.6 support, 6 vs. 5.7 sniper). Looks nicely even for the most part. Heavies can still get majorly screwed over if they're unlucky, but on the upside, snipers can get their aim up a lot quicker since they don't have to go through that valley of 3s in their progression before spiking at the end.

Jade Star
Jul 15, 2002

It burns when I LP

ulmont posted:

Am I missing something - those are all flat growth ranks for aim for each class (and seem to track the flat scores below)?
http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Soldiers_(EU2012)#Ranks

E: or did you mean that each rankup was not flat, but that each promotion (Rookie -> Squaddie, Squaddie -> Corporal, etc.) was flat?

I mean that the progression is not flat. No class earns the same amount of aim each rank from Rookie to Colonel.

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Jade Star
Jul 15, 2002

It burns when I LP
End of March Progress Report

March went by fast and provided a lot to do at the start of the month. So much so that the first ten days of this campaign will likely shape the rest of the game. We have a lot of good soldiers, and had a lot of money to spend through the month. I'll cover what each of those situations look like at the end of month. First let us start off with something a little more mundane we picked up in the middle of the month.


Xeno Biology

Polsy

The cut scene we get here sets the stage for the start of plot. Sort of. Anyway a big deal is made about capturing a live alien and then interrogating it. This is actually completely necessary to advance the game, on top of the actual effects interrogating live aliens get you. We need to build one of these thing ASAP as well as research and build the capture device mentioned in the cutscene, an Arc Thrower (Alien Taser).

Moving on, at the end of every month the Council grades your performance. For the most part it serves as nothing more than a score card tallying how many missions and research projects you completed, how many missions you failed, the X-Com monthly finances, and whether or not any funding nations have left the X-Com project. It is important to note that getting a failing grade two months in a row will cause the X-Com project to be canceled and cause the end of the game. Let's see how we did for March.



So we did really well here. We stopped all the alien activity we could, got some research done, and earned a boat load of cash. Seriously, 786 X-Com Bitcoins at the end of march is insane. That is the most I've ever seen. Global panic levels are also looking very good. Only 4 countries in the yellow is great. Before the end of the month came I covered all of Africa in satellites for the All In bonus which is a huge advantage to have. The last remaining satellite went over China. I plan on launching another three satellites at the end of April so having one already in position over China means that if I don't need to use these planned satellites to quell panic I can cover all of Asia at the end of April and secure the Future Combat bonus.

So how about the rest of the base? Well it's worth noting we have 21 engineers now on staff. That's a huge huge number for the end of march. I would have been happy with 10 to 15 in a normal scenario. This many engineers puts us way ahead of the curve needed to build satellite uplinks every month. If I had the tech and resources we could even put up a Nexus this month, but that would require several functioning UFO navigation pieces and the time to research them. As is we are way ahead of even my most optimistic projections for a start on classic.

The Yin to Dr. Shen's Yang here is that research laboratory is badly understaffed in comparison, housing only 7 scientists at the moment. This isn't crippling, but I might have honestly wanted the March 26th abduction mission to have rewarded me with scientists instead. Research can be very slow at the start of the game and now that we have a surplus of engineers I would really like to pick up the scientists to match.

The beginning of the month is the best time to spend a lot of money. A lot of the money I earned from March is already reserved however. Every month about 275 X-Com Bitcoins need to be set aside and reserved for expanding satellite coverage. 100 for the uplink, and then about 60-70 per for three satellites. That takes away about half our spending money for the month. The rest is largely invested in the cost of digging out and setting up a Thermo Generator. That will cost 200 for the building alone, plus excavation costs. That leaves me about 125 extra left over, suddenly I don't feel so rich. That money is just enough to build an officer training school. Just the school though. I will have to find some missions and earn some money or sell alien artifacts to actually pay for any of the abilities unlocked in the OTS.

This still leaves me with out an Alien Containment, Gene Lab, Cybernetics Lab, or a Foundry. All of these are very important buildings to get built as soon as possible and I will have to scramble to get them up this month, if I can at all. Come the end of this month and the expected income I will earn from having 8 satellites up I should at least have all the money I need at the start of May. Despite the amazing start March gave us, it still leaves us with needing more money to pick up the slack we lost by not building these other buildings earlier.

This is how the base looks on April first;


The OTS is being built in a corner because it doesn't get any adjacency bonuses. The steam is being excavated for the Thermo Generator, and the square under the first Satellite Uplink is being excavated so that I can build the uplinks in a square, and get the extra adjacency bonus from the fourth uplink rather than waiting for the fifth if I built this months uplink on the upper level. Three satellites have already been purchased and are being built, and the remaining 299 XCom bitcoins are reserved for the cost of the uplink and Thermo Generator.

Things are looking good but I really need more money to get started on the buildings we are missing. On top of that I will need more money to build anything else this month, such as laser weapons or armor if I get those researched in time. This whole month is going to be a bit of a cluster gently caress. There is so much to do and even with my accelerated satellite start there isn't enough money to do it all. Not even close. April is going to be frantic, just no way around it.

Let's go take a look at our troops and see how they have come around this month.

Sergeant Tony 'Voodoo' White - Support
5 Missions, 7 Kills
HP 6+1 Will 73 Aim 95
Sprinter + Field Medic
Tony White needs a better nickname than Voodoo. I'm counting on you people to give him one before the next video.

Corporal Nittien Stomperud - Sniper
4 Missions, 6 Kills
HP 4+1 Will 44 Aim 91+10 (Scope)
Squadsight

Corporal Ragnar Tiny Turtle - Heavy
3 Missions, 7 Kills
HP 6+1 Will 44 Aim 69
Bullet Swarm
Given Tiny Turtles average aim, the slow growth rate of heavies, and the heavies class ability when converted into a MEC Tiny presents and ideal candidate for the first MEC suit as soon as it becomes available.

Squaddie Ricky Gunderson - Sniper
2 Missions, 3 Kills
HP 4+1 Will 51 Aim 83

Squaddie Catalina Sprahl - Assault
2 Missions, 3 Kills
HP 4+1 Will 39 Aim 80

Squaddie Hilda Kartal - Support
1 Mission, 3 Kills
HP 5+1 Will 37 Aim 76

Squaddie Finn Terne - Sniper
1 Mission, 1 Kill
HP 5+1 Will 33 Aim 77


These are only the seven I have renamed and seen combat since the opening mission. I still have five more sitting in the barracks in case I need them, and I may recruit more given the need and spare income to hope for a good batch of high aim rookies. Everyone is in good health and awaiting the next mission.

Lastly come the medals we earned during March. There was a lot of talk about the first medal, several naming suggestions as well as discussion on which power to assign it. It seems everybody except one person forgot about the second medal that was awarded. So here are our medals going forward from here;



I renamed it just a little, but I thought the Bonus Beuenos Aires Air Medal was clearly the best suggestion. It currently awards +4 aim to a solder and will gain +2 aim as more continent bonuses are secured. We have one of them awaiting your decision on whom to award it to. Please make your suggestions or discuss who you want to have it so I can have that done for the next update.

Veloxyll was the only poster to voice an opinion on the Urban Combat Badge, so I took his idea and made it a little less stupid.



I think that is an acceptable modification to his original suggestion to name the bade TacosTacosTacos. Veloxyll also chose the defense power which is the correct choice. We have one of these badges awaiting to be awarded to a soldier.


That does it for March. Please vote if you want to award the medals and to give Tony White a better nickname. Please vote any time a new soldier hits Sergent while I am at it. I think we can do better than the default generated nicknames.

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