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Jade Star
Jul 15, 2002

It burns when I LP
Supplemental - End of April Evaluation



Polsy


There was a lot happening at the end of the month, including a lot of mini-cutscenes so I put it together as a short video.

Some big things happen though, and we'll start seeing them in the next missions. Laser weapons will make life much easier for our soldiers, as will tactical rigging. Tiny becomes our first MEC and will get to show off the powers of being a MEC. My monthly income is just insane for the end of the second month and that will continue to feed my war effort in a big way.

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Brainamp
Sep 4, 2011

More Zen than Zenyatta

I loving love the Mec cutscene. Just something about seeing the robot plonk the tiny arm on the soldier, then the matching flexing with the big one.

Also, I'm pretty sure the laser rifle cutscene plays after you research it, but since you turned off Beginner VO, you missed out on it.

Sorites
Sep 10, 2012

Brainamp posted:

Also, I'm pretty sure the laser rifle cutscene plays after you research it, but since you turned off Beginner VO, you missed out on it.

This is right. I can't believe Disable Beginner VO takes away the fun little cutscenes, while still leaving in Bradford's loving minute-long tutorials on how to do the special-objective missions. Even after you've already successfully completed a half-dozen of the same kind before.

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10

Brainamp posted:

Also, I'm pretty sure the laser rifle cutscene plays after you research it, but since you turned off Beginner VO, you missed out on it.

That's a shame. It's not much, but I really love that cutscene for some reason. :3:

Here it is for anyone who wants to see it.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



I thought it came when you built a laser rifle.

Not sure on the beginner VO bit, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't come after the research.

Orthogonalus
Feb 26, 2008
Right angles ONLY

Sorites posted:

This is right. I can't believe Disable Beginner VO takes away the fun little cutscenes, while still leaving in Bradford's loving minute-long tutorials on how to do the special-objective missions. Even after you've already successfully completed a half-dozen of the same kind before.

Aaaaagh, seriously. It only removes things that are skippable or ignorable, but keeps the things that take the controls away from you to slowly pan the camera over to show you something obvious while a voice blabbers on endlessly.

SovietPotatoe
May 14, 2011

Master of the Duncspawn Taint

Brainamp posted:

Also, I'm pretty sure the laser rifle cutscene plays after you research it, but since you turned off Beginner VO, you missed out on it.

It only plays after either equipping or building a laser rifle, not sure which but definitely not on researching it, nor is it affected by Beginner VO.

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

SovietPotatoe posted:

It only plays after either equipping or building a laser rifle, not sure which but definitely not on researching it, nor is it affected by Beginner VO.

I didn't see it in my latest game, despite both building and equipping multiple laser weapons of every type. I have Beginner VO turned off.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

SovietPotatoe posted:

It only plays after either equipping or building a laser rifle, not sure which but definitely not on researching it, nor is it affected by Beginner VO.

I haven't seen any of them since turning off beginner VO.

Spudd
Nov 27, 2007

Protect children from "Safe Schools" social engineering. Shame!

The laser cutscene only plays for when I equip it onto a soldier.

Jabor
Jul 16, 2010

#1 Loser at SpaceChem
The big win for building satellites in batches of 1 is when you're rushing out as many as possible in the first month, and don't actually know how many you'll be able to make (because it depends on what you get as loot from the first UFO). You queue up as many satellites as you can build with one additional uplink, and then when it's time to build the uplink you cancel as many as necessary to be able to afford it.

After that initial rush it's largely pointless busywork, though I still do it if I think I'm going to be tight on money and an extra $50 now is going to be worth more than having another country covered next month.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Jabor posted:

The big win for building satellites in batches of 1 is when you're rushing out as many as possible in the first month, and don't actually know how many you'll be able to make (because it depends on what you get as loot from the first UFO). You queue up as many satellites as you can build with one additional uplink, and then when it's time to build the uplink you cancel as many as necessary to be able to afford it.

After that initial rush it's largely pointless busywork, though I still do it if I think I'm going to be tight on money and an extra $50 now is going to be worth more than having another country covered next month.

If an extra $50 is worth more now than every month. So practically never unless you can't afford the uplink you had planned. I guess if you know it's going to be tight on the cash front, but that sounds super rare.

Nekomimi-Maiden
Feb 27, 2011

I'm here to help you.
Rule number one, don't get me killed.

Veloxyll posted:

If an extra $50 is worth more now than every month. So practically never unless you can't afford the uplink you had planned. I guess if you know it's going to be tight on the cash front, but that sounds super rare.

I think the point is more, "Okay, I've got three sattelites queued up, but due to other expenses / EXALT attack, etc, I'm $50 short of paying for the actual uplink. I cancel one so I can launch the other two rather than building all three and not getting any money this month -- and next month, I buy the remaining sattelite to launch".

Still niche but less insane than it sounds.

AhrimanPK
Oct 9, 2012

'Ello 'Ello 'Ello

My name's Clive Owen!
When Jade almost said circumcision instead of circumstantial I experienced a horrible mental image of someone's "cover" being removed.

ReturnOfFable
Oct 9, 2012

No tears, only dreams.
I'm very curious for why you guys went for Kinetic Strike over the Flamethrower. Flamethrower just works so we well with clearing out groups of enemies and the range is really good on it.

ReturnOfFable fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Mar 3, 2014

Fetucine
Oct 29, 2011

ReturnOfFable posted:

I'm very curious for why you guys went for Collateral Damage over the Flamethrower. Flamethrower just works so we well with clearing out groups of enemies and the range is really good on it.

They didn't, they went for Kinetic Strike over Flamethrower. Collateral Damage is the Squaddie ability of all Mec Troopers.

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

ReturnOfFable posted:

I'm very curious for why you guys went for Kinetic Strike over the Flamethrower. Flamethrower just works so we well with clearing out groups of enemies and the range is really good on it.

Kinetic Strike owns because there are a shitload of ways to do moderate damage to a bunch of dudes (rockets, grenades) - and MECs can even get more of them. There are a lot fewer ways to do a bunch of damage to a single tough enemy.

Plus, you get to punch aliens!

apostateCourier
Oct 9, 2012


Why Kinetic Strike is better than Flamethrower

Kinetic Strike
+Increased movement range is wonderful
+12 (later 18) damage that absolutely cannot miss
+Unlimited uses, no cooldown
+Explosive cover that is hit by the alien's ragdoll will explode (Thin man bowling is the best thing)
+ROBOTS PUNCHING ALIENS (occasionally in particularly badass ways)
+Gets an upgrade later that lets you punch without ending your turn
+No friendly fire, assuming you don't sectoid-bowl a car or something your guys are hiding behind
-Requires you to get adjacent to the target within one move (Somewhat trivial, given the increased movement range)

Flamethrower
+Huge AOE
+Sets things on fire (EXPLOSIONS!)
+Decent damage
+Mass panic can be fairly useful
+Killing things with fire is pretty cool
-Your robot man is slow
-DESTROYS RESOURCES (fragments, alloys, elerium, meld)
-Robotic enemies are immune
-Limited ammo
-Friendly fire is a thing
-No really your robot man is quite slow, so proper positioning to use the flamethrower can be difficult
-Best used for killing hordes of weak things, which you should be able to handle just fine

apostateCourier fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Mar 3, 2014

Sorites
Sep 10, 2012

An upgraded Kinetic Strike also lets you bust into a UFO or building like the Kool-Aid Man, shoot someone, and then pile in your whole squad through the new door the aliens didn't prepare for.

W.T. Fits
Apr 21, 2010

Ready to Poyozo Dance all over your face.

apostateCourier posted:

Kinetic Strike
+12 (later 18) damage that absolutely cannot miss
-Requires you to get adjacent to the target within one move (Somewhat trivial, given the increased movement range)

Ask me about the time I thought I was adjacent to a Sectoid Commander and wound up destroying a Meld container instead! :negative: (Thankfully, I'd already collected the Meld.)

Jade Star
Jul 15, 2002

It burns when I LP

apostateCourier posted:

Why Kinetic Strike is better than Flamethrower

:words:

gently caress I knew i forgot to do something. That, and the one skill choice Tiny got to make. gently caress it. next time he levels up I'll cover them both. And I wanted to leave the Kinetic strike part for Guava, who should be back soonish. I hope he is. I'm out of commentary from him. (still 3 videos recorded though).

ReturnOfFable
Oct 9, 2012

No tears, only dreams.
I always liked running two MECs, one with a Flamethrower and one with Kinetic Strike.

Besides, Flamethrower completely destroys an enemy type we are going to see later this month.

apostateCourier
Oct 9, 2012


Jade Star posted:

gently caress I knew i forgot to do something. That, and the one skill choice Tiny got to make. gently caress it. next time he levels up I'll cover them both. And I wanted to leave the Kinetic strike part for Guava, who should be back soonish. I hope he is. I'm out of commentary from him. (still 3 videos recorded though).

No problem, I just saw the lack of it and figured I'd fill the gap until you/Guava got around to putting more thought into it than I did.

Green Intern
Dec 29, 2008

Loon, Crazy and Laughable

Sorites posted:

An upgraded Kinetic Strike also lets you bust into a UFO or building like the Kool-Aid Man, shoot someone, and then pile in your whole squad through the new door the aliens didn't prepare for.

If you have another soldier with Bioelectric Skin, you can even target aliens camping out on the other side of the wall!

kaosdrachen
Aug 15, 2011

apostateCourier posted:



Flamethrower
+Huge AOE
+Sets things on fire (EXPLOSIONS!)
+Decent damage
+Killing things with fire is pretty cool
-Your robot man is slow
-DESTROYS RESOURCES (fragments, alloys, elerium, meld)
-Robotic enemies are immune
-Limited ammo
-Friendly fire is a thing
-No really your robot man is quite slow, so proper positioning to use the flamethrower can be difficult
-Best used for killing hordes of weak things, which you should be able to handle just fine

You forgot:

+ Causes everything set on fire to panic. EVERY. THING.

It may not be the most useful tactical maneuver, but watching an ethereal skip its turn of mind-controlling your assault dudes because it's flailing around with its robes on fire will never get old.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

kaosdrachen posted:

You forgot:

+ Causes everything set on fire to panic. EVERY. THING.

It may not be the most useful tactical maneuver, but watching an ethereal skip its turn of mind-controlling your assault dudes because it's flailing around with its robes on fire will never get old.

You know what's better?

Punching said Mind controller to death and not having to worry about it.

I just wish you could punch aliens into other aliens.
Heck, I'd still use it if I had to use rookies to punch into aliens.

Veloxyll fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Mar 4, 2014

Zebrin
Mar 12, 2010

Chopping trees down and making elves cry.

Veloxyll posted:

You know what's better?

Punching said Mind controller to death and not having to worry about it.

I just wish you could punch aliens into other aliens.
Heck, I'd still use it if I had to use rookies to punch into aliens.

Rookies:;(n): See Ablative Armor or Ammunition.

Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011



Green Intern posted:

If you have another soldier with Bioelectric Skin, you can even target aliens camping out on the other side of the wall!

Hmm, this sounds familiar...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GYytIgtvIg :killdozer:

Attestant
Oct 23, 2012

Don't judge me.

Veloxyll posted:

I just wish you could punch aliens into other aliens.
Heck, I'd still use it if I had to use rookies to punch into aliens.

Well, you can punch certain robotic enemies that will explode when killed. I managed to nearly kill a slightly wounded rookie by punching a robot at him by accident.

Attestant fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Mar 4, 2014

Vincent
Nov 25, 2005



Attestant posted:

I managed to nearly kill a slightly wounded rookie by punching a robot at him by accident.
I knew some day this "reading" bullshit would pay of.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

I think I've only seen an ethereal last more than one turn once. By the time you see them you can blow them away so easily they never get a chance to do anything but reflect your attacks.

MJ12
Apr 8, 2009

ReturnOfFable posted:

I'm very curious for why you guys went for Kinetic Strike over the Flamethrower. Flamethrower just works so we well with clearing out groups of enemies and the range is really good on it.

The thing is, MECs have low defense, making them incredibly fragile despite their deceptively high HP. Their main method of survivability is offense and mobility. They're fast cav, not heavy armor.

A MEC with flamethrower does not have the 'fast' part of fast cav. This speed is a MEC's life, because it allows them to flank an enemy (and thus kill them, reducing incoming fire), or get into engagement range of hostiles more easily, thus saving the lives of your other people.

Flamethrower is nice, but Kinetic Strike is too good. If Flamethrower also made your MEC tougher (giving it, say, 25% damage reduction) it'd probably be balanced with Kinetic Strike. Make it a choice between "fast, fragile melee ninja" and "slow, tough flamethrower tank".

Bremen
Jul 20, 2006

Our God..... is an awesome God
If Kinetic Strike didn't boost the MEC's speed, I think KS vs Flamethrower would be a hard choice, maybe even a slight advantage for the flamethrower.

But the movement speed is just incredible. You may or may not be punching things, but having a MEC that can be pretty much wherever you want it is useful every turn, and arguably a bigger benefit than the punch itself.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
One thing that bugs me about the flamethrower is the weird, hard to predict nature of what it will hit. It's not categorically the case that something in cover can't get hurt by it, and it doesn't seem to be a roll, either. The interface will show you as affecting units you don't end up doing any damage to, which breaks the precedent with all the other aoes, which will very clearly show you what they'll hurt.

If the flamethrower either a) always hit what fell inside its cone or b) accurately reported what would take damage, I'd probably always take it for every mech after my first (because I think 1 punchy mech is enough for pounding high health targets, though snipers kind of fill that role too).

The other thing is, in the .ini files, it looks like the flamethrower is meant to set things on fire and potentially destroy cover, but that ability is turned off. I think they may have decided that it makes collateral useless, or else that it made the flamethrower too useful. Certainly, if it burned down a swath of cover, kinetic strike would be less interesting.

funeral home DJ
Apr 21, 2003


Pillbug
It's funny because I remember getting X-Com: Enemy Unknown as a "buy-one-get-one" deal in one of the games I played (maybe Bioshock: Infinite? Honestly cannot remember) and playing it for a few hours, then ultimately becoming frustrated and bored with it.

Now I've been watching this LP and understanding how X-Com works, and with the whole "Let's build a MEC unit that can literally punch the gently caress out of aliens" I'm actually seriously considering downloading this expansion pack and trying again. This actually looks fun, not just torturously frustrating.

Thanks for doing this, it's been entertaining as hell and has me queuing up the DLC once the next paycheck comes through.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

quote:

The interface will show you as affecting units you don't end up doing any damage to, which breaks the precedent with all the other aoes, which will very clearly show you what they'll hurt.

Actually that's not unique to flamethrowers. Collateral Damage, grenades, and rockets are bugged and will also sometimes just not hurt enemies it says it should, even if the blast radius is directly centered on them. I had a rocket hurt a thin man but not the thin man three squares away, whose cover blew up, for example.

Kinetic Strike will always be better even if it weren't bugged though because taking a sectopod from 25 hp to 2 and ensuring it can't do anything to anyone else with electro-pulse and two punches trivializes them. It turns the one endgame enemy that is a serious threat into a non-issue. And all it takes is a disabling shot or lightning reflexes if you're concerned about the mec getting shot up.

RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Mar 4, 2014

Zurai
Feb 13, 2012


Wait -- I haven't even voted in this game yet!

The extra speed from Kinetic Strike is nice but overrated IMO. MECs can't take cover and have medium-range primary weapons, so they don't really belong on the front line, and unlike Supports with medkits, there's not much reason to need to relocate them across vast distances ASAP either. Yeah, they do get Restorative Mist, but I much prefer the grenade launcher and the mist can't be used to stabilize/revive downed characters anyway.

My Assaults are the only characters I wish were faster. Getting Sprint on a Training Roulette Assault is always awesome.

E:

RBA Starblade posted:

It turns the one endgame enemy that is a serious threat into a non-issue. And all it takes is a disabling shot or lightning reflexes if you're concerned about the mec getting shot up.

The problem with this statement is that Disabling Shot already turns those enemies into non-issues. It doesn't have psionics, so if it can't shoot, it's not a threat. Even with the EW buffs, it should never survive more than one turn, it just takes more firepower to kill it now is all. Running a Punchymech up to it could easily reveal many more aliens who only have your punchymech in sight to target. Easier and safer to just sit back, disable its weapon if needed, and bombard away.

Plus, by the time you're righting them, your punchymech could just deal 15+ points of damage to them from where they start the turn. Particle Accelerators are strong.

Zurai fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Mar 4, 2014

Cooked Auto
Aug 4, 2007

If you will not serve in combat, you will serve on the firing line!




Ripoff posted:

It's funny because I remember getting X-Com: Enemy Unknown as a "buy-one-get-one" deal in one of the games I played (maybe Bioshock: Infinite? Honestly cannot remember) and playing it for a few hours, then ultimately becoming frustrated and bored with it.

Yeah I got XCOM:EU when I preordered Bioshock Infinite at the beginning of last year and even some of the DLC at a later steam sale but just haven't really started it because I'm terrible at base management and just keep expecting myself to gently caress it up. I'd probably be fine at the mission part because at least EU would favour my style of advancing slowly with overlapping lanes of fire.
I really should just start playing and try to take as much info from this LP in consideration and at least try to finish EU before getting EW.

DatonKallandor
Aug 21, 2009

"I can no longer sit back and allow nationalist shitposting, nationalist indoctrination, nationalist subversion, and the German nationalist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious game balance."

MJ12 posted:

The thing is, MECs have low defense, making them incredibly fragile despite their deceptively high HP. Their main method of survivability is offense and mobility. They're fast cav, not heavy armor.

A MEC with flamethrower does not have the 'fast' part of fast cav. This speed is a MEC's life, because it allows them to flank an enemy (and thus kill them, reducing incoming fire), or get into engagement range of hostiles more easily, thus saving the lives of your other people.

Flamethrower is nice, but Kinetic Strike is too good. If Flamethrower also made your MEC tougher (giving it, say, 25% damage reduction) it'd probably be balanced with Kinetic Strike. Make it a choice between "fast, fragile melee ninja" and "slow, tough flamethrower tank".

You know there is a way to get more defense on XCOM units. And it comes standard on the same unit that can heal the giant HP pool of MECs.

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funeral home DJ
Apr 21, 2003


Pillbug

Cooked Auto posted:

Yeah I got XCOM:EU when I preordered Bioshock Infinite at the beginning of last year and even some of the DLC at a later steam sale but just haven't really started it because I'm terrible at base management and just keep expecting myself to gently caress it up. I'd probably be fine at the mission part because at least EU would favour my style of advancing slowly with overlapping lanes of fire.
I really should just start playing and try to take as much info from this LP in consideration and at least try to finish EU before getting EW.

I know how you feel with regards to throwing out a "game" but I have to admit that EU just wasn't as fun looking as this. I can't help but wonder if the devs cooked up EW but hadn't yet polished it for release, then just put EU out there with the full intent of releasing EW.

Honestly in my relatively short play of EU I always felt like I was in a survival horror game. Every time I get ahead a newer and badass-er alien struts out and slaughters me. It got frustrating, but with this it looks like you can get ahead. Which for me, at least, looks more fun.

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