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radintorov
Feb 18, 2011
That really was another "very special episode". :allears:
Although when you next have another go at a JadevsGuava, you should allow Guava to pick his own team, so that we can see the different squad composition he would use; if the Alien Base is not randomized like the other missions, that would be a good one to try this again.

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Sion
Oct 16, 2004

"I'm the boss of space. That's plenty."

radintorov posted:

That really was another "very special episode". :allears:
Although when you next have another go at a JadevsGuava, you should allow Guava to pick his own team, so that we can see the different squad composition he would use; if the Alien Base is not randomized like the other missions, that would be a good one to try this again.

2 words. Competitive Multiplayer.

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!
Lipstick Apathy
Here's a fun idea: take turns on the same mission with each of you trying to play only with your own play style. Make it one of the big UFO landings.

SpRahl
Apr 22, 2008
Damnit Jadestar you assured me of sweet sweet death :argh:

Felinoid posted:

That is really weird because I know I have had drones one-shot civvies with 1 damage shots on multiple occasions. I'm not sure if any of them have been in the expansion though, so maybe that was a change? Definitely a good change, because it was really silly back in EU to need to prioritize drones (or intentionally leave a damaged cyberdisc for them to heal) to save civvies.

Yeah I also definitely remember drones being able to one shot civilians with 1 point if of damage.

Dareon posted:

The AI always gets a little weird on terror missions, because they've got all these juicy, no-cover, almost-guaranteed kills hanging around. I'm pretty sure the reason Guava's cyberdisc peaced out for a turn was because it decided to go snack on a civvie (That then died automatically because you couldn't see it)

That still doesnt explain Guava's chrysalid just randomly running past all his guys across the street to the edge of the map especially with plenty of killable civies nearby, or Jade's chrysalid not killing Urban Sprahl. The AI tends to go with whatever option has a greater chance to hit/kill the target but since chrysalids don't aim that wasn't why it ignored her.

Pvt.Scott
Feb 16, 2007

What God wants, God gets, God help us all

SpRahl posted:

Damnit Jadestar you assured me of sweet sweet death :argh:


Yeah I also definitely remember drones being able to one shot civilians with 1 point if of damage.


That still doesnt explain Guava's chrysalid just randomly running past all his guys across the street to the edge of the map especially with plenty of killable civies nearby, or Jade's chrysalid not killing Urban Sprahl. The AI tends to go with whatever option has a greater chance to hit/kill the target but since chrysalids don't aim that wasn't why it ignored her.

It's possible that the one running across the street had panicked, maybe? Or it felt it was in LOS of one too many targets that could one-shot it.

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10

notZaar posted:

Here's a fun idea: take turns on the same mission with each of you trying to play only with your own play style. Make it one of the big UFO landings.

That would require them to either be in the same room, or to swap saves at least 10 times and then patch together a dozen small clips to make a mission. That update would take a month at best.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Teddybear posted:

Change Sprahl's nickname to "rip".

I would prefer "Yeah, RIP" but I support this.

Jolyne Cujoh
Dec 7, 2012

It's not like I've got no worries...
But I'll be fine.
In the video Guava mentioned that Booshing Cyberdisks gets you exploded on, which is pretty much always false. Cyberdiscs don't have a special booshing animation, so when you boosh them they go flying just like everyone else, leaving the booshmech safely out of the blast radius. The only time you ever really have to worry is if you punch them while they're against some sort of indestructible terrain.

grimlock_master
Nov 1, 2013

Fuck you, suzie

Raenir K. Artemi posted:

In the video Guava mentioned that Booshing Cyberdisks gets you exploded on, which is pretty much always false. Cyberdiscs don't have a special booshing animation, so when you boosh them they go flying just like everyone else, leaving the booshmech safely out of the blast radius. The only time you ever really have to worry is if you punch them while they're against some sort of indestructible terrain.

I can corroborate this, having booshed multiple cyberdiscs and coming out of it unscathed

AirborneNinja
Jul 27, 2009

Ideally you boosh them and skip them like a deadly stone into another pack.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012
Just don't be an idiot like me and make sure when booshing a Cyberdisc that you're not launching it into your own troops.

Zebrin
Mar 12, 2010

Chopping trees down and making elves cry.

Raygereio posted:

Just don't be an idiot like me and make sure when booshing a Cyberdisc that you're not launching it into your own troops.

Whole squad in a group
Mec Booshes cyberdisk there
Entire squad wounded.

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

Zebrin posted:

Whole squad in a group
Mec Booshes cyberdisk there
That's how X-Com goes.

I made a slight edit for you.

Fumbles
Mar 22, 2013

Can I get a reroll?

I know this isn't the general thread but I think this is the best place to ask:

If you could give a single tip for someone trying to progress from Normal to Classic and finding the first few missions a bit of a tactical brick wall, what would it be? We've really reached the point where technology and skill ups tip the scale more than tactics, but I keep finding myself having serious hurdles going through the first few missions when you don't have any better weapons or armor and everyone is a rookie.

Olesh
Aug 4, 2008

Why did the circus close?

A long, chilling list of animal rights violations.

Fumbles posted:

I know this isn't the general thread but I think this is the best place to ask:

If you could give a single tip for someone trying to progress from Normal to Classic and finding the first few missions a bit of a tactical brick wall, what would it be? We've really reached the point where technology and skill ups tip the scale more than tactics, but I keep finding myself having serious hurdles going through the first few missions when you don't have any better weapons or armor and everyone is a rookie.

Adjust your tactics.

Okay, that's kind of a dick thing to say. Serious answer? Make sure that you don't leave guys in LOS of activated aliens. The fewer turns aliens have to actually shoot at your guys, the less likely you are to get shot. This means that as much as possible you want to avoid triggering aliens when your guys have already moved for the turn; try to trigger aliens at the start of your turn whenever possible, and remember that backing up out of vision range is a legitimate option to avoid getting shot. This doesn't just mean taking cover behind a corner, it can also mean moving far enough behind the corner that there is no line of sight.

If you watch the videos, you'll notice that Jade makes an effort to ensure that activated aliens don't get to take any turns whenever possible. You'll never be able to eliminate 100% of the risk, but you can drat sure increase it with (retrospectively) poor decisions.

ThatBasqueGuy
Feb 14, 2013

someone introduce jojo to lazyb


Fumbles posted:

I know this isn't the general thread but I think this is the best place to ask:

If you could give a single tip for someone trying to progress from Normal to Classic and finding the first few missions a bit of a tactical brick wall, what would it be? We've really reached the point where technology and skill ups tip the scale more than tactics, but I keep finding myself having serious hurdles going through the first few missions when you don't have any better weapons or armor and everyone is a rookie.

Try recording a failed mission and seeing what went wrong. Figure out if you constantly repeat a mistake, stuff like that.

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10
My tip would be to never be afraid to use grenades. They kill sectoids, remove cover, and can open alternate paths should the need suddenly arise. Even against 4 health thin men and floaters, a grenade will kill their cover and take them down to the point where you don't have to count on the RNG to roll enough damage to down them in addition to the required hit (before lasers, that is). The concept continues to work as enemy health and your weapon damage increase. If you're ever, and I mean ever uncertain about the outcome of a turn, make it certain with explosives. If you outright can't...see Olesh's post.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS
Yeah the main thing I had to do when I went from normal to impossible was just plan to use every single grenade I had and to - at least - get my grenade off before a rookie bought it. High cover, careful positioning, and grenades.

Once you figure out how grenades pave the way (literally, in some cases) for better shots from your remaining rifles, you can get past that early difficulty wall. Felinoid is right about taking chances, too - don't. If they've got two hp and you have one soldier left, frag it. Don't try for the 60% rifle.

(or save scum, but I mean, whatever ... guarantee that kill.)

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10
Or, if you'd like that early difficulty wall to last forever, try an Army of Four run. Goddamn is action economy important. Especially when a Terror Mission has 3 chryssalids and FOUR cyberdiscs, and you didn't bring a Heavy. :negative:

Zomborgon
Feb 19, 2014

I don't even want to see what happens if you gain CHIM outside of a pre-coded system.

Felinoid posted:

Or, if you'd like that early difficulty wall to last forever, try an Army of Four run. Goddamn is action economy important. Especially when a Terror Mission has 3 chryssalids and FOUR cyberdiscs, and you didn't bring a Heavy. :negative:

Always remember- retreat is an option. In this situation, freaking run. Panic gain and money loss are nothing compared to losing your Fantastic Four if it's your only A-grade team.

Psion
Dec 13, 2002

eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

Felinoid posted:

Or, if you'd like that early difficulty wall to last forever, try an Army of Four run. Goddamn is action economy important. Especially when a Terror Mission has 3 chryssalids and FOUR cyberdiscs, and you didn't bring a Heavy. :negative:

There are some achievements I'm just more than willing to let GuavaMoment get and me ... not so much.

see also: Spacechem.

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10

Zomborgon posted:

Always remember- retreat is an option. In this situation, freaking run. Panic gain and money loss are nothing compared to losing your Fantastic Four if it's your only A-grade team.

I made it through somehow, but it was very touch and go, and there was a lot of hiding and waiting for them to come to me. Three-wide high cover was my friend. Also, failing a terror mission isn't just panic gain, it's instant country loss. It was in Argentina and I don't have too many scientists, so I kinda needed to be able to get them to burn through all the autopsies, so I could finally get some goddamn gene mods. If I'd started losing people I might have made a beeline for the skyranger anyway, though. Even losing the whole B-team would be worse than losing a country.

Canuck-Errant
Oct 28, 2003

MOOD: BURNING - MUSIC: DISCO INFERNO BY THE TRAMMPS
Grimey Drawer

Veloxyll posted:

I made a slight edit for you.

"That's XCOM, baby" is also 5 syllables.

Archenteron
Nov 3, 2006

:marc:
When a 'Disk hits your eye
As it's booshed through the sky
:xcom:

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Archenteron posted:

When a 'Disk hits your eye
As it's booshed through the sky
:xcom:

When a rocket, off-track, hits the VIP's back
:xcom:

When your team's beat up and bleeding, then the rookie string fights that terror thing
:xcom:

And the panic's so high that you know if they die
it's game over!

AnoHito
May 8, 2014

Archenteron posted:

When a 'Disk hits your eye
As it's booshed through the sky
:xcom:

When your guy's out of his head
Pumps his ally full of lead
:xcom:

When you're out of luck
95% shot's not enough
:xcom:

When the chryssalids come
Day before laser guns
:xcom:

AnoHito fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jun 12, 2014

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

Fumbles posted:

I know this isn't the general thread but I think this is the best place to ask:

If you could give a single tip for someone trying to progress from Normal to Classic and finding the first few missions a bit of a tactical brick wall, what would it be? We've really reached the point where technology and skill ups tip the scale more than tactics, but I keep finding myself having serious hurdles going through the first few missions when you don't have any better weapons or armor and everyone is a rookie.

My single tip would be to play like low cover doesn't exist at all.

ThatBasqueGuy
Feb 14, 2013

someone introduce jojo to lazyb


Piell posted:

My single tip would be to play like low cover doesn't exist at all.

100x this. Low cover is a noob trap

Felinoid
Mar 8, 2009

Marginally better than Shepard's dancing. 2/10

Piell posted:

My single tip would be to play like low cover doesn't exist at all.

That's more Impossible difficulty than Classic. On Impossible, low cover is practically just no cover without the flanking bonus, but on Classic you can still get away with it if you're killing things. You do have to seriously ask yourself whether it's worth it to move up to low cover instead of just hide in your high cover, though. Most of the time the answer will be no, but there's still a yes fairly often. For example, when moving your person up lets them get the last shot on the last enemy, but they had no firing line from their starting position. Or when there's just jack poo poo for cover and you have no other choice.

On a related note, this game gave me a serious love/hate relationship with trees. High cover! :glomp: Line of sight! :argh:

Willie Tomg
Feb 2, 2006

Fumbles posted:

I know this isn't the general thread but I think this is the best place to ask:

If you could give a single tip for someone trying to progress from Normal to Classic and finding the first few missions a bit of a tactical brick wall, what would it be? We've really reached the point where technology and skill ups tip the scale more than tactics, but I keep finding myself having serious hurdles going through the first few missions when you don't have any better weapons or armor and everyone is a rookie.

Do not forget that Hunker Down is a thing that exists and is your friend. Hunker Down your point(wo)man behind high cover and the AI won't be any better pleased with its trashy 15-25% chance to hit than you are fighting the aliens early game, and that'll make the AI do stupid things for a better shot.

For me, judicious use of Hunker Down was what made Classic good clean fun instead of capricious aggravation.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin

Felinoid posted:

On a related note, this game gave me a serious love/hate relationship with trees. High cover! :glomp: Line of sight! :argh:

Destructible! :supaburn:

Fumbles
Mar 22, 2013

Can I get a reroll?

Thanks for all the tips! The X-Nom project is advancing smoothly. Squaddie Commander Shepherds Pie is our first and so far only casualty, having moved up for a vital run and gun and having an 80% chance to hit, missing, and being killed by plasma on the next turn. RIP Commander Shepherds Pie.

My unBeatable B-Team (There is no A-Team) of Benito 'Spicy Bean' Burrito, Coco 'Overfed' Bonbon, Ser Braten, an Olivier Borscht are proving themselves a very powerful four-man squad of absurd aim Heavy, even absurder aim Sniper, and a pair of really good Supports. I also got gifted the worlds worst Heavy. She's a Sergeant rank with 30 Will, 63 Aim, had a natural 6 movement tiles and got Sprinter, bringing her up to 9...which some of my best soldiers have NATURALLY. She's only good for training up rookies on easy missions by bringing along her rocket launcher and a grenade and acting as battlefield control for if the rookies can't handle it. She missed every single shot she fired, even a FLANKING shot, on her one and only "real" mission. So I named her Burnt 'Overpriced' Ramen, because it is the worst food, and she is not valuable.

I've noticed that one huge improvement to my playstyle is naming the soldiers. I definitely treat Lieutenant Benito 'Spicy Bean' Burrito (who I suspect is a mutant, he phased right through a wall at one point to throw a grenade) different from Lieutenant Okoro 'Voodo' Akandi or any of the other pre-gen names. Naming all of my soldiers terrible food puns/names has actually dramatically helped my style of play, as has withdrawing and letting the Right People take the shots if the shots are absolutely necessary to take.

All glory to the X-Nom Project!

Fumbles fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Jun 12, 2014

CrazySalamander
Nov 5, 2009

AnoHito posted:

When your guy's out of his head
Pumps his ally full of lead
:xcom:

When you're out of luck
95% shot's not enough
:xcom:

When the budget's way too tight
The aliens blow up your satellites
:xcom:

Jade Star
Jul 15, 2002

It burns when I LP
Operation Insolent Barricade



Polsy




An exalt rescue mission for today. Pull Finn out of hostile territory, but while we are at it let's play with some new toys! Our MECs get upgraded and I have a new rookie to train up. I'd like to write more here, but it's exalt.


Our new MEC toys are here! Tier 2 MECs get some nice options. A grenade launcher adds a world of offensive versatility. The launcher itself has a much extended range over a arm thrown grenade. It comes with a starting stock of 3 (I think) grenades, and expands to 5 with the Expanded Storage skill choice. The Medical Mist is a good option for a defensive minded MEC. The Mist sprayer emits a large cloud of healing centered around the MEC and will heal every soldier it touches. This can mean a heal on all 6 of your soldiers in one turn if you set up for it. Unlike the tier 1 choice, this one is a balanced option and which choice you make depends on the roll you want your MEC in. For the LP it is pretty clear how I will split this decision, the punch MEC gets the grenade launcher. The Support MEC that will be sitting near the troops most of the time will get the Medical Mist to patch them up just in case.

MEC-2 equipment choices. Grenade Launcher vs Medical Mist

Grenade Launcher
+ Ammo supply means more than enough grenades to spend on removing enemy cover.
+ Improved range over thrown grenades.
+ Mobility plus grenade range lets you hit a lot of far away targets.
+ Removes the need to dedicate a soldier to be a grenadier. Frees up inventory slots for other uses.

Medical Mist
+ Area of effect heal.
+ Eases burden on supports.
+ Works well with support based MEC troopers.
- Limited uses. Only 1 per mission to start.

Jade Star fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Jun 15, 2014

Veloxyll
May 3, 2011

Fuck you say?!

There are 3 people angrily BEING WRONG.

I am suffering Boosh withdrawal though.

Lando131
Jul 27, 2006

This is one way to find scum...
You're actually wrong about Squadsight never being useful on a Covert Operative. There's a bug with Squadsight and Overwatch that lets you make reaction shots with pistols against enemies within Squadsight. Because of this your CO can actually get some mileage out of it, whereas with Shap Shot it really is useless since they can't take their sniper rifle along for the ride.

This, of course, requires you to be willing to abuse one more unintended 'feature' of the game.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

You forgot to writeup Healing Mist vs Grenade Launcher.

Skippy Granola
Sep 3, 2011

It's not what it looks like.
I'm working my way up to another try at completing this absurd game, mostly thanks to all the solid advice in these videos.

It's not quite as motivating as having Jade's dulcet tones reading X-Com official novels to me over Skype while I gently caress up base building but it's definitely a close second.

Teddybear
May 16, 2009

Look! A teddybear doll!
It's soooo cute!


Skippy Granola posted:

I'm working my way up to another try at completing this absurd game, mostly thanks to all the solid advice in these videos.

It's not quite as motivating as having Jade's dulcet tones reading X-Com official novels to me over Skype while I gently caress up base building but it's definitely a close second.

I had a thought that might be either great or terrible: on the next exalt mission, jade sends you and guava the video without telling you what happens, and you two commentate on it.

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Skippy Granola
Sep 3, 2011

It's not what it looks like.

Teddybear posted:

I had a thought that might be either great or terrible: on the next exalt mission, jade sends you and guava the video without telling you what happens, and you two commentate on it.

If only we'd done it before the homebrew soundtrack episode. That one is hard to top.

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