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TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
Things that break mimetic/cloak:
shooting
launching/shooting/throwing an explosive
losing the precondition for the cloak (mostly for mimetic, when your cover burns down or blows up)
MEC super-punch
MEC flamethrower

Things that don't:
Reloading, Hunkering, or Overwatching (shooting on overwatch does)
Non damaging grenades (smoke, flash, cricket, ghost)
Medkits
'Buffing' (psy inspiration, muton musk, run and gun)
MEC EMP, for some reason
MEC prox mines (I haven't tested this, but I'm pretty sure since the prox mine doesn't detonate when it hits, you're good)

So you can have a MEC with their bullet-swarm equivalent shoot, then get ghosted, then wander over to wherever. Or you can ghost them run up and emp an secto or shoot prox mines into the darkness.

I guess I should double check that prox mine thing. I haven't messed with ghost armor/grenades and MECs because I tend to either go entirely mimetic, or the 3 part tag team of SHIVs to draw fire (until I have some lightning reflex assaults), psy guys, and MECs.

/\/\/\Edit: that reminds me--certain enemies have the ability to reveal mimetic guys when they're too close. Sectopods, sectoid commanders, and ethereals at least. Crysalids too I think. Though I'm not sure on that last one because I remember a recent game where a crysalid got close to a mimetic and didn't break the effect. It's the alien counterpart to the bioelectric skin thing that reveals cloaked seekers.

I'm not sure if that can happen to someone who's 'ghosted' as opposed to hiding with mimetic.

\/\/\/Edit 2: Yeah I guess it must be really buggy then, because I know I've seen my guys revealed before, but never by a crysalid.

Also hilarious crysalid puns ITT.

TheCosmicMuffet fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Feb 7, 2014

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TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Fister Roboto posted:

Yeah, I don't bother with nexuses until I've already got full coverage and I'm just looking to make space.

Basically, good base management boils down to critical path analysis. You set your goal, which should be "SATELLITES EVERYWHERE", and then work back through the requirements from there to figure out when you need to build what.

What? No. First you figure out where the hot tub goes, then you pace out the rec room so there's room for ping pong *and* theater seating for 8.

Then you get the wet bar in there.

Then you launch satellites to defend earth from the alien threat.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Brainamp posted:

Aliens don't tend to use grenades unless they can hit multiple targets with it, at least that's I've seen.

There's 2 exceptions. One is if an alien cannot shoot you, but knows you're there and is otherwise in range, they'll throw a grenade. This is a weird occurrence, but happens most often when you are on high ground, they start their movement with you in view, then move up and have their line of sight blocked by a cliff or fence or something, but can still throw a grenade.

The other is if the alien is flying, and starts within grenade range of one of your units that's in cover at the start of its turn. It will usually throw and then fly off somewhere. I think cyberdisks and heavy floaters are the only ones that do this.

Relatedly, Cyberdisks have a weird quirk, where, if they start their turn within movement range of 3 or more of your guys, they seem really predisposed to move over them and use their EMP pulse-type power that does damage to everything around them. Though it doesn't disable MECs like the mecpulse does to other stuff.

On the medal, I vote Will. Aim is cute and whatever, but it's much more likely that you won't have that benefit at all, and that if it ever helps it won't help for long, whereas having extra will in any way is useful all the way to the end, and you'll probably get +10 out of it on the soldiers who get it for the whole game. Name it Cookie Sale Activity Pin. And we should follow the Girl Scouts of America format for future awards. http://www.girlscouts.org/program/basics/for_volunteers/insignia/list/ambassador.asp

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Coffeehitler posted:

I've noticed you're keeping low Will rookies. Is this because Agent-scumming is so much more expensive compared to the previous games, or some other reason I'm not noticing?

In month 1, money is tight, and you need a set of rotating skilled troops. Will is generally not an issue because if you allow deaths you'll be in deep poo poo, and you won't run into anything that will attack will directly until month 3 at the earliest. He can afford to dump low will characters later, or keep them for humor value.

In addition, if he wants, he can cancel the negative effects of being panic-prone with a medal or a genemod. And the mod will also remove the risk of being mind controlled--bringing low will to the point where it's a near non-concern.

Pulling in piles of new guys later is also more convenient if he invests in the officer school thing where everybody shows up as a squaddie fresh off the train, instead of a rookie. That way you can roll up the specialists you want more easily.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Jade Star posted:

I have no idea what you are trying to say. 'won't have that benefit at all, and that if it ever helps it won't help for long'. This make zero sense to me so if you could, please explain. Aim is always helpful, and what you said is confusing and makes no sense to me.

The benefit when you take it and award it at first will be +2.
In the time it takes for you to get +4 or +6, you'll already be fielding characters that, through gear or skills (whether positional or just aim bonuses) will be capping aim at the time they're shooting (meaning, they'll have 100%, either because they closed the distance, or are getting a benefit from some other skill or power).

The benefit when you take will and award it can be 8. In the will scale, where a typical soldier is somewhere from 35-60, this is a proportionally greater benefit, and there's no chance it will be 'wasted'. Having a key soldier panic or get mind controlled is a bigger risk than missing a shot where 2-6% would have made the difference, though the psionic part will likely never come up since you'll have other ways to make up for it (kill the mind controller before the next turn, gene mods, or the mind defense accessory from trepanning an ethereal).

There are some will related morale rolls you can never fully account for--like intimidate or seeing civilians get eaten in a terror mission. Whereas you could, conceivably, with careful play, account for any aim deficits and keep control of situations with explosives.

I really see this medal as being nearly worthless in the long run--Aim takes longer to develop to full potential, but by the time it does, gives you virtually no benefit. Will is available immediately, and helps you a little during the more difficult early months.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Jade Star posted:

Thank you for clarifying. Now, counter points.

I will have +4 aim at the end of march. +6 by end of April. That is a pretty immediate effect.

This notion you have of 'capping aim' or having 100% aim through skills or gear is wrong. There is no such thing as capping aim. There is never enough aim to ensure you have a 100% shot all the time. High cover is -40%, do you really think everyone will be floating around with 140 Aim all the time? What about 170? Because Muton Elites in high cover are -70% to hit. And that isn't even a rare circumstance.

The idea that Aim is somehow less valuable later in the game is also just plain wrong. Maybe you're not familiar with the late game enemies, but they get natural intrinsic defense values. Even if you catch them out in the open the will have -10% to -30% chances to hit them. The enemies get tougher and require more and more aim to hit, scaling with the improvements in your soldiers and gear.

I think I'm using my own idiom to express it and you're assuming I mean more than I do by it.

Yes, you don't cap aim. You cap hit chance. How you go about doing that will never come down to a difference of 6% aim. Instead, you'll be working to flank, get control with a grenade or rocket, or make up for the chance to hit deficit in some other way.

On paper 6/100 is 1 in 20 shots connecting that otherwise would have missed. In reality that number is a couple orders of magnitude smaller, since it will *only* make a difference when you have not already done something else to make the benefit irrelevant. You have to plan around missing anyway, and the aim bonus from this thing won't change your plans. Aim will never help with explosives, psychic powers, or the arc thrower: making the difference the medal will make smaller.

Late game enemies inherent defense barely serves to keep pace with soldier skills, genemods, and tech. Practically what it means is that you'll never stop trying to flank and use explosives. But that doesn't argue well for a 6-8 aim buff on some of your soldiers. Incremental aim bonuses are less valuable in the late game, because the amount of aim required has increased.

I use the medals early on to shore up the panic problem. I give this one to higher will guys to help fortify them until they level enough to be immune to getting scared, and give the panic-immunity one to the low will guys who will never stop being a liability otherwise.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Jade Star posted:

What? Why can't I up a 94% shot to 100%?

What? Yes. Yes it will. A +/-10% chance to secure a kill on a given shot will certainly influence my plans.

You keep saying 6-8 aim. Why are you trying to undersell the medal's Aim bonus? It's going to be +10. It's a trivial matter to get all five continents and you keep listing it as less that 10. By late game you should definitely have all five.
As for incremental aim bonuses are less valuable late game, does that mean you stop using scopes late game? This baffles me.

Well I understand where you're coming from. I think the trick is that aim penalties and bonuses are balanced around increments of 10. So less than 10, while it helps, doesn't ever get you the critical difference needed to hit 100. In order to do that, you need to seek out some terrain advantage or other piece of equipment, which give you benefits in increments of 10, so the medal doesn't show up as making a difference. Otherwise, you just take your chances, and when you do that, increments less than 10% get washed out by the change in odds of having multiple people fire at the same target (because e.g. 96% chances to hit vs 90% you've got .15% chance the first pair both miss vs 1% chance the second pair both miss, the difference, practically would only be noticeable over 1000s of such situations--and noticeable is kind of a misnomer in that case).

I mean, let's math the poo poo out of this for a little bit.
Hidden potential growth
Heavy : 0-2 Aim per level
Assault : 1-5 Aim per level
Support : 2-6 Aim per level
Sniper : 3-9 Aim per level

Our guys (now)-(after a month assuming a promotion)-(with scope)-(against light cover)-(against heavy cover)
Nittien sniper 87-(90-96)-(100-106)-(80-86)-(60-66)
Ricky sniper 83-(86-92)-(96-102)-(76-82)-(56-62)
finn sniper 77-(80-86)-(90-96)-(70-76)-(50-56)
tony support 91-(93-97)-(103-107)-(83-87)-(63-67)
hilda support 76-(78-82)-(88-92)-(68-72)-(48-47)
catalina assault 80-(81-85)-(91-95)-(71-75)-(51-55)
ragnar heavy 67-(67-69)-(77-79)-(57-59)-(37-39)

So looking at that, what would 4 points (a generous interpretation of where you'll be because I'm kind of assuming you'll hold satellites until the end of the month, missing out on the benefit through the month--and I know I'm being conservative with the promotions, but I think it makes sense given how you don't know if the medal wearer will be injured and out of the rotation for a couple fights).

On catalina, it might, if she was close enough to avoid the shotgun aim penalty, with a scope, help her guarantee a hit when she flanked someone. It could put finn over the edge in terms of guaranteeing a hit on someone out of cover. In another couple of promotions, it could make the difference on guaranteeing hits in light cover for Nittien or Tony. So that's month 3 to see that benefit. Fair enough--could be worth it to have a couple guaranteed light-cover shooters. If they had height, then they'd even be guaranteed through full cover, assuming the hidden potential rolls high enough.

I undersell the total benefit of the medal because that's month 4 and later, and by that time, even the full 10% buff it gives figures less into how you play. Because then you've got rapid fire, double tap, bullet swarm, extra rockets, deep pockets, holo targeting, high ground whenever you want it thanks to grapple or springy legs or jet boots, etc etc. Let's say Ragnar is alive and promoted in month 4. I'm going to ball park him at having accumulated 6 extra points of accuracy from all that, and he'll be at 73 base. 83 because I'm sure you'll have a scope on him. Let's say he has bullet swarm, and you give him the second-chance eyes, and you can plan on his second shot always being 93, and he has holotargeting, so it's 103. He's already guaranteed to hit through partial cover from high ground, and anyone in the open/flanked. If he had the eye benefit and the medal, he's still be at 63 against a chryssalid on overwatch. Even with bad RNG, he could be at 60, and with spectacular RNG he could be at 66. The range of possibility isn't wide enough to catapult him into hitting guys in heavy cover, and he'll be able to deal with partial cover without the medal.

The assaults aren't going to need it, because they'll be running up and getting a bonus of 10-35 from being close, and probably flanking on top of it. The support monster is going to be past the light cover threshold almost certainly, without help, and I wouldn't think you'd be so hard up for options that his ability to guarantee hits through heavy cover from high ground would make the difference to your plans.

So the aim feature of the medal doesn't come into its own until after the point when you'll be free to rely on things other than taking a chance on a shot through cover--at any rate, you'll still be doing that, but you'll be able to get away with it more often because you'll fall back on other stuff.

If the game had a smooth gradient of aim bonuses and penalties, then I'd definitely be much more inclined to try the aim.

Obviously there's 2 points here. I see you play conservatively, so to me, the chance that you might try something crazy and hope it works doesn't figure in--I assume you want the guaranteed hit, which means getting through set points of defense and aim penalty. The other point is that I discount having to take a chance on a single shot, because even though you'll be doing it, bad RNG and :xcom: are going to mean you can't plan around incorporating this medal as a part of your tactics. I'm not sure it would even qualify as a useful buffer in any way. Will may not *either* except that the consequences of missing a shot aren't as awful as the consequences of a key soldier panicking, especially if they shoot your own guy.

Which is why all I said the first time was that aim is nice to have but won't make a difference until the difference it makes isn't noticeable, whereas the will bonus might prevent a wipe, and shores up an area you have less control over.

Anywho, you could keep doing the math on the late game stat ranges for your guys and find a couple where it would get them past the mutons-in-partial-cover/sectopod -30 or the full-cover/sectoid-commander-in-partial-cover/ethereal -40. You'll have tons of ways to deal with cyberdisk, berserker, flying floater, and whoever else in partial cover penalties. If that's how you're planning it, fine. But you're going to have to keep the medals in reserve until you see how the RNG on the hidden potential works out, to avoid wasting the medal on someone where it won't get them past the threshold of RNG to guaranteed hit.

I just think you can use it now, and it will help, whereas later, only maybe will it make a difference. It's not a marathon game, either, so I don't think that, later, the medal's full benefit will more than make up for the ramp up time because it will provide the benefit forever.

Edit: 'going to have to' just means 'IMO to make the best use of it'.

TheCosmicMuffet fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Feb 11, 2014

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Jade Star posted:

Very cool break down, but I'm still not getting it. In the table you provided there are tons of values where an extra 6-10% hit chance would be beneficial.

Ok. If you don't think the risk of panic is a problem, then I think you wait until the medal is +4, and you put it on Ricky if her next level doesn't bump her over 90 naturally. Then wait until the medal is +8 or more, and put it on Hilda if she doesn't do the same, and Tony if you can get him to 110 base. Like FoolyCharged mentioned, MEC is a better bet for a lovely heavy, so bench ragnar until he can be turned into a MEC and give a medal to him if he ever cracks 90 (which ah... he's a squaddie right now at 67, and the MEC growth is 6 at most--so he might make 91 as a captain if you're lucky).

As is, the snipers you've got will be more than good enough on their own, and your heavy isn't on the edge where you can help him out. You've got one MVP sniper who doesn't need it, and the assault will be fine with the close-in bonus. I kind of think you're going to end up with extra medals you won't put on anyone because they won't give you a benefit.

Alternatively, you could soldier-SCUM a bit in month 2 to try to find some better candidates, then Aim medal could help you shore up a borderline recruit instead of recycling them. Though it'd be nice to have officer training so you could get them as squaddies and not deal with having to rotate them through the roster just to see if you like them.

I guess a panic spiral would actually be a great way to show off SHIVs and get some more goons in the game. So what do I know.

I'm still going to pick Will on my games :D

Also you're on classic, so I wonder if you won't end up losing at least one country. Sometimes the luck of the draw on abduction missions and Exalt fuckery just doesn't go your way. This is an LP, which should mean that murphy's law of the internet is in full effect.

TheCosmicMuffet fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Feb 12, 2014

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
Tony "Stark" White Taco defenders medal.
Then put him in archangel armor when you get it researched.

edit: woops, I forgot all the math.
Hilda gets the Bonus Buenos Aim medal.



TheCosmicMuffet fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Feb 12, 2014

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Jade Star posted:

No.

No no no no.

Nittien "Skal vi danse" Stomperud
Nittien "Aldri Nok" Stomperud
Nittien "Brann Bedring" Stomperud
Nittien "Jeg Er Fra" Stomperud

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
You are a huge tease.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Psion posted:

No, I mean there's literally an SA poster named Colander Crotch thanks to ridiculous nonsense from a previous Jade Star LP, I forget what his name was before that.

Jadestar has the power to warp SA? I'm terrified now. I already lost my carefully tuned avatar to the depradations of some guy who didn't like what I posted.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
Nittien "Børk Børk Børk" Stomperud.

Edit://\/\ I thought he meant secondary heart, so that you know you'll have the chance to revive them rather than having the ability to revive someone but they're just dead and it won't help.

Marrow sucks. Get jumpy legs forever.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Felinoid posted:

Yeah, but you'd think if it were simply an oversight they'd do something about it after everyone complained. Given that they haven't changed it, I have to at least hope that they've got some other reason for it, even if it's a daffy one.

It's not hard to enable the time-compression doo-dad. In fact, I play with time compression on all the time now (I have to keep retoggling it, because it's basically just a variable that multiplies how many ticks run between frames--so when you get an alien activation with it's mild slow motion, it gets reset--though, weirdly, overwatch fire doesn't slow everybody down--only the victim of the overwatch and the shooter, so that doesn't reset it).

Go into <Your Xcom Directory>/XCOMData/XComGame/Config, or for EW, it's something like <Your Xcom Directory>/XEW/XComGame/Config
and you'll find DefaultInput.ini

Find the [Engine.PlayerInput] section and add some lines below it like this:

.Bindings=(Name="LeftBracket",Command="slomo 3",Control=False,Shift=False,Alt=False)
.Bindings=(Name="RightBracket",Command="slomo 1",Control=False,Shift=False,Alt=False)


Or x, where x is the name of the key and the number is the factor you want it to speed up by.
The full list of Unreal key names is here:
http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/KeyBinds.html#Mappable keys

Anyway, I find it great for when I'm SCUMing from a mission start, or just bored with the glacial pace of clearing out a supply ship in the late game.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
Figure this is a better place than the /Games thread (since odds are the people there already have the game): Gamers gate has Xcom EW half off today.
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-XCOMEW/xcom-enemy-within

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
Jadestar I have a request if you have the chance; could you showcase combat stims, and maybe let Guava tell you how to use them?

I've never messed with them, but I never noticed until today that part of their effect is that they prevent critical hits and make you take *half* damage.

I'm not clear if, like a medikit, you get that benefit without use, or if it's only for 2 turns, or 1 turn or what.

I'm going to find out, but it might be fun to showcase.

The game is full of cool sounding stuff that a lot of people ignore (e.g. SHIVs, reaper rounds, ghost grenades), it'd be nice if you did the rounds on some of them.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
Sometimes it doesn't even make a difference that meld is involved. Half the time, I just dash over, and it takes the seeker extra invisible time to bother strangling anyone.

The only upshot to the seeker stealth mechanic is that you can use mimetic skin stealth while they're around, so you can ignore them for a couple turns if you want.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
Well, the annoying guy that Feinne or whoever found notwithstanding, basic xcom is pretty easy. You can run into the darkness a lot.

The thing they need you to understand is :xcom:. Not the running into darkness part--the dying part.

I appreciate that at least *some* part of the tutorial isn't a 4th wall breaking hand-holding exercise. That they illustrate the most meaningful part of the game by showing, not telling, through bodycount is pretty refreshing.

You lost most of your guys. Those are guys you'll never get again.

And the free satellite is a pretty clever way to make up for it.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
I agree (and I miss OG Xcom's 14 rookie human wave attack on sectoids).

But nobody learns a game straight up first time out, and EU is designed to discourage saving constantly and gaming the randomness to force unusual success.

The game is about trying to recover from something not going your way. It's so often in a game that the game basically expects you to win, and if anything goes unexpectedly, it hand holds and brings you along to try to get you to the end. Xcom is about getting past that hump of having nothing in your favor and making the best of your losses until you can finish off the story missions and run your victory lap.

The point isn't 'rookies don't matter--just throw them away'. The point is 'you're going to lose guys and not always be able to replace them'.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
I was pretty young when I played Ufo Defense.

I would equip my guys with 2 stun rods.

I was pretty sure it made them better at it.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
"Unpronounceable"
"UnSmith"
"Garrus"
"Atta Kid"

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Sion posted:

How is that fair?! HAhahah bullshit game.

Give him a second heart, and dash him into the fog of war *every* *turn*.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Fellis posted:

Thanks, Gunderson

Thunderson

Thundercat HOOOOOOOO~!

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
They Made me a MEC
Watch Out What You Say, or I'll
Punch You Up the Butt

alt text for someone who says 'm-e-c'

I'm an M-E-C
etc...


If close and personal or whichever one is the free close range reaction shot is like the SHIV version of the skill, then the rule isn't once per turn like overwatch, it's once per enemy, per turn. So you can shoot at 5 guys coming in through your area, or at least a SHIV will. You need ammo for it to trigger, though.

Here's the catch; if it's the activation nonsense where everybody is moving simultaneously, you don't get to proc on multiple units. So you might have seen 2 guys get close and only shoot at one of them, because they were doing their activation simultaneous movement--or air drop overwatch, or whatever. But when they're moving sequentially you should get multiple shots. Though, I'm not sure if there's a cap beyond the ammo restriction.


Edit: \/\/\/ Woops. I play with training roulette so much I don't know what tier anything normally comes at anymore, except dense smoke and squad sight.

TheCosmicMuffet fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Feb 24, 2014

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Sorites posted:

So I normally start my games on Classic, then bump up to Impossible through the options menu once I hit some pre-planned tech level.

Holy poo poo. I can't understand why I didn't think to do this. I hate the early phase crap with naked squaddies eating poo poo from sectoids in Impossible, but I love the mid and late game 'oh crap, I may lose a guy on the regular' feeling. I've been making up the difference with damage roulette, but that almost evens out, considering that I occasionally one-shot berserkers and other nonsense.

I can't believe I forgot you can do that both ways. When I was new at EU, I only ever used it to back down off of Classic or Impossible to an easier mode, never the other way around when I got bored.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

W.T. Fits posted:

:raise: Fascinating. Where does rushing SHIV research factor into this equation? I've heard that's apparently a thing some people do on the higher difficulties.

SHIVs are just people that don't suck and cry when things are scary. You generally run them the same way. The main benefits are that they overcome the incredibly bullshit Impossible start where you can't one-shot a sectoid, because their gun is 5-7 base damage (and they're better shots), and they don't need to care about cover, so you're free to take advantage of line of sight and terrain height (if possible, because they needs ramps).

You're only researching prereqs for the foundry (2 projects), and leaning on your engineers for the rest of it. Rushing SHIVs bottlenecks on cash and engineers, just like satellites and alien containment and whatever else. But it doesn't *also* bottleneck on science, and that's why it's great.

If you rush SHIVs, you can then skip precision and pistol techs because the heavy research is what gets you the new SHIV weapon. Most of the rest of the upgrade unlocks come from capturing or killing aliens and doing foundry research programs that automatically upgrade all your poo poo.

You can leverage them to babysit a rookie for the prereqs needed for officer training, or for an arc thrower-monkey, and it makes it easier to decide to spend your meld on a mimetic trooper or MEC, since you will be filling out the rest of the squad with implacable killing machines.

Basically humans are the weak point of the xcom project. If only we could replace vahlen, shen, and what's his name with robot faces and voices.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

SeaTard posted:

Who have bad stats if you use NCE/HP.

Mine were great this time around. I think it's just the typical random crap.

Out of curiosity, what were the nationalities? I think I've gotten an american and two egyptians every time.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
I wish this operation were called Vengeful Sheep.

Jadestar, if someone put together a new mission random file for you, would you adopt it?

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
I don't know how anything could be too goony. Are you worried you'll get a mission named Pak Chooie 68, or Heteronormative Waifu?

I'm not going to go to AI and put a bunch of car brands and mopar lingo in there or anything...

Operation E/N Shitpost.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

GuavaMoment posted:

Please do this, but send it to me first. I can then make sure Jade uses it. :getin:

Man, this is a fun eye-opener in a lot of ways... For instance, did anybody know about this:

quote:

POISONED_AIM_PENALTY=20

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Brainamp posted:

Yes. Thinmen that manage to poison you aren't just assholes for the damage it causes.

It's also why gas grenades are pretty good for taking enemies alive. Poison them, and your chances go up each turn while they have an aim penalty.

I set mine to 80 and gave gas grenades to all my guys.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Fumbles posted:

Seekers can't be Flamethrowered, but it DOES let you know where the Seeker is since it pops up an "immune" message. This is helpful because the "scan the ground and see where you can't walk" method doesn't always work very well in darker textured areas or on darker maps, and some times the movement thing just gets finnicky. I've used a flamethrower to "spot" for seekers and then use explosives to deal with them.

Seekers can fly. I find 9 times out of ten, you can't really find them any way, because they're 3 stories up in the air over your guys. Or they did that floater routine where they fly out, up, and over the roof of whatever you're inside, in preparation for doing the reverse next turn.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
One thing that bugs me about the flamethrower is the weird, hard to predict nature of what it will hit. It's not categorically the case that something in cover can't get hurt by it, and it doesn't seem to be a roll, either. The interface will show you as affecting units you don't end up doing any damage to, which breaks the precedent with all the other aoes, which will very clearly show you what they'll hurt.

If the flamethrower either a) always hit what fell inside its cone or b) accurately reported what would take damage, I'd probably always take it for every mech after my first (because I think 1 punchy mech is enough for pounding high health targets, though snipers kind of fill that role too).

The other thing is, in the .ini files, it looks like the flamethrower is meant to set things on fire and potentially destroy cover, but that ability is turned off. I think they may have decided that it makes collateral useless, or else that it made the flamethrower too useful. Certainly, if it burned down a swath of cover, kinetic strike would be less interesting.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
Listen, guys. Jeez. Don't agonize over this clicking bullshit. If you feel like the game plays better with the ability to overwatch and move with a sniper rifle, just go into the defaultgamecore.ini, scroll down to the weapon section, and look for the sniper rifle entries. Switch out eWP_MoveLimited for eWP_None. It's really easy and then you don't have to keep loving around.

In fact, I highly recommend screwing with the ini files, yourself. There's a ton of stuff you can do in there for quality of life, and, after all, this is why you bought it on PC in the first place, isn't it?

For more information on this, and other fascinating topics, consult
http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/DefaultGameCore.ini_settings_-_XCOM:EU_2012

Also, I am slightly stoked for Jadestar putting in the new operation words. Last night I did the portent mission, but it was code named 'Operation WTF Going on a Diet', which made me think my guys and gals were jealous of all those svelt thinmen.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
We're basically talking about a creature who's traveled millions of lightyears and across dimensions *just* to give out free hugs. I would think we could learn a *lot* from it's example. :chomsky:

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
Regarding Collateral damage and ammo. It doesn't use as much as you'd think--it's just like suppression. It uses 2 shots. It's just that MECs have a 2 shot magazine, at least with the initial minigun. It's one of the reasons Guava was talking about the ammo capacity upgrade from the foundry, and it's the reason I like to always get the increased capacity skill for my MECs, now.

It's a funky balance thing they did with the MECs that to compensate for how early you get reliable heavy hitters even in Impossible difficulty, they can't really do much without having to stop to reload.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Pvt.Scott posted:

Makes Squadsight Headshots more reliable. An extra 20% crit chance is nice. Apparently Reaper Rounds works by doubling range penalties, so the rifle is even more worthless in close quarters, but that's what Gunslinger is for.

Sniper has a weird calculation. I don't know what it is exactly, but I can sort of see how it works from the ini files. Basically, when you see the number for 'range penalty' in the ini files, it's something like '4'. Then there's an 'assault' number for shotguns that doubles this. The sniper number is something like -2. But if you pump it up to -10, what ends up happening is that your deadzone of bad aim extends out further.

So if you are just short of extreme range, your penalty is 0, and therefore the double penalty from reaper is also 0. And as an assault with a shotgun, your penalty is also 0. If you move one square out, and your penalty is 4, then reaper rounds make it 8. If it's a shotgun, it's 16.
e:f,b
Re punching invisible things: you can punch through cover, and the punch itself is an aoe. So if you punch through cover and an invisible alien happens to be there, you kill it. Either invisible because you couldn't see through the wall, or invisible because it's a seeker. What's annoying is that the kinect strike module doesn't allow you to fire unless you have a valid target, like JS says.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Roar posted:

Totally involve Guava in this poo poo. I want to see whether super aggressive and super defensive wins.

Also, play multiplayer.

:allears:

Just do a versus. Make it humans only.

TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine
Guava moment and Jadestar should recreate a multiplayer versus game between them with paintball guns. IRL

:black101:

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TheCosmicMuffet
Jun 21, 2009

by Shine

Cleretic posted:

I would like a bit more of a 'how to set up your base' post, personally. Jade Star's clearly doing well with his, but I'd quite like an explanation of why, and more general advice since a lot of it was clearly based around those lucky steam vent allocations.

It's not very intricate in this version. You need to weight the cost of excavating versus the cost of not having a room. Basically, if steam is on any of the top 3 rows, you need to excavate to it so you can build a generator. If only because there's no other way to provide power to all the rooms you need and still get the extra workshops that will make the game survivable.

If you get lovely steam vent placement, consider restarting. Or play it out and see how well you can do. Otherwise, there's nothing meaningful to decide. A 2X3 column of workshops and a 2X3 column of laboratories is ideal but you won't always get it.

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