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Cythereal posted:Not shown: this is quite capable of killing characters. I do have to wonder how many reloads Luisfe isn't showing, considering that entry-level enemies can kill some characters in one hit if you get unlucky... Don't even get me started on what happens when you fight monsters with Kirijutsu, like Samurai and Ninja clans. Or of course monsters with hold and death spells. Yeah, once the combats get going with status ailments you start seeing the harshest of Wizardry (but also the most fun when you get your own hold and death spells to stomp the bastards).
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Feb 17, 2014 00:09
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Crazy Dastard posted:Don't even get me started on what happens when you fight monsters with Kirijutsu, like Samurai and Ninja clans. Or of course monsters with hold and death spells. Yeah, once the combats get going with status ailments you start seeing the harshest of Wizardry (but also the most fun when you get your own hold and death spells to stomp the bastards). Oh, I know. I have the entire trilogy. And, of course, there's always the tiny, tiny chance of encountering a tyrannosaurus late in the game that I believe has more HP and does more damage than the final boss.
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Feb 17, 2014 00:15
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Cythereal posted:Oh, I know. I have the entire trilogy. And, of course, there's always the tiny, tiny chance of encountering a tyrannosaurus late in the game that I believe has more HP and does more damage than the final boss. Have you played the PS2 wizardry?  it's actually pretty drat solid.
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Feb 17, 2014 00:47
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crowfeathers posted:Have you played the PS2 wizardry? Nope. Grew up watching my dad spend hours upon hours playing Bane and Crusaders, then started playing them myself and Wizardry 8, including getting the whole trilogy for 5 bucks on Steam this Christmas. Never had any interest in the other Wizardry games. Very late in this game, there is a very slight (as in: I only saw it once in four or five playthroughs) chance to encounter a t-rex. I think it's the strongest enemy in the game by a healthy margin.
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Feb 17, 2014 00:52
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Update 08 Let's try that new Copper Key.  Well that did not work. Oh well. Let's advance.    Goin' up. MY EYES.    : "Are we going to wast this? It would be a shame to waste it." : "I don't think tasting this would be a wise idea."  : "I CANNOT SMELL ANYMORE BUT THIS DISGUSTS ME.": : "Awwww that is such a waste." Maybe we should've searched the carcass, but drat that is kind of disgusting isn't it?   Oh joy of joys, an encounter!  It goes rather well! Then again, having them all sleeping all the time helps.   Oh good! MONMOON gets them because I am tired of him being useless after running out of magic points.     Not much to say here, honestly. It's just a tower.   : "I long for the day when I can run in the forest and howl at the moon with my brethren..." : "I think he is thinking about wolves, not Rawulf..."  Okay, we tried the towers. Let's instead check out the basement.   Interesting, a door right after going down from the stairs.  Oh joy. One of those doors!   And rats. Hooray, Rats.  RABID. And KILLER.  Forgot to equip MONMOON. Unfortunately. Oh well.  And then the game froze. God damnit. No noise, no new things happening, no nothing. That is rather annoying.  Getting back there, we get an altogether different encounter! These dudes are quite harder than the rats! : "Bloodsuckers! They suck your blood!" : "I think that is... Well, why they are called that. " They have damage dealing abilities.   Also, they give the LARGEST amount of xp so far.  Gold is low though.  TINKLEE gets slightly better at murdering things with her bare hands and feet and 5 skill points!  As well as a healing spell. THat is always useful.  TINYsan is also getting better at murdering things with swords. Huh, he has one more kill than TINKLEE. Also, is two years older.   Sure we have STERV and MONMOON to sleep the enemies with lullabies and psychic powers, but a hypnotic Samurai Hobbit sounds like a good idea.  SNAKE is also 19 years old now, huh.  Still very bad at unlocking things. We have not been using him or STERV to open doors. That should be done, honestly.  DETPOPE was also ordained quite young, but is now 19. Huh, why is TINKLEE 20 when everyone else is 18 or 19?   Also making wounds, not just healing them. CAUSE SERIOUS WOUNDS. I guess.  Oh no! An ambush while sleeping! Fortunately STERV and TINYSAN were awake by then. Unfortunately, SLIMES. : "AMBUSHED? By these disgusting blobs?": "They do not taste too bad,"  They were quickly dispatched.   The basement has things to do and harder monsters to kill than the first floor AND the towers.   Fortunately, maps.  And doors. Hm.  The Slimes are considerably less dangerous than the leeches, to be honest.   So let's just kill them.    Uh how does that work  And they weren't regular slimes! They were POISON slimes! That is dangerous! Got lucky there, no goddamn poisonings in this encounter. That would've been very bad.   Let's see what is behind the door.   Oh no! An encounter!  GASP, a single brigand!   ... Whaaaat He is welcoming us. As strangers. Maybe the party has things he'll buy at a high price.  No one here can be called Ishmael though. I doubt DETPOPE would like to share a cot with him. Well, DETPOPE is no sailor, anyways.   What should we say to QUEEQUEG? We shall see what he has to sell next time.
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Feb 18, 2014 08:24
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Chiming in that the PS2 Wizardry is an amazingly good game. This is going about as well as can be expected.
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Feb 18, 2014 22:01
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Jenner posted:Chiming in that the PS2 Wizardry is an amazingly good game. Nthd. I looked and looked and I got Gamestop at no charge to find me a copy at a shop in Portland, Oregon USA. They shipped it to a nearby store for free and I got it for $5 because that was the price in the computer - amazing luck. Every copy I have seen on eBay is $50+
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Feb 18, 2014 23:23
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I can't stop reading DETPOPE as Det-Pope, head of the Church of Explosions.
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Feb 19, 2014 01:23
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Rockopolis posted:I can't stop reading DETPOPE as Det-Pope, head of the Church of Explosions. Huh. TINKLEE and Princess Pitch do have certain similarities and I guess Aletheides could secretly be Mecha-Santa. Seems legit.
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Feb 19, 2014 02:05
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Rockopolis posted:I can't stop reading DETPOPE as Det-Pope, head of the Church of Explosions. In my mind me he wears a crown of C4, a robe woven from detcord, and a dynamite scepter topped by an old-timey black bomb.
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Feb 19, 2014 06:22
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I keep reading it as DEBTPOPE.
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Feb 19, 2014 09:48
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I can't be the only one thinking Detective Pope.
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Feb 19, 2014 10:13
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Kangra posted:I can't be the only one thinking Detective Pope. You aren't.
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Feb 19, 2014 16:35
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Goddammit, Sterv, stop trying to eat everything. This isn't Skyrim and you definitely aren't going to be doing any alchemy.
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Feb 19, 2014 17:16
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Rockopolis posted:I can't stop reading DETPOPE as Det-Pope, head of the Church of Explosions. I'll just leave this here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhiSgXz_l20
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Feb 19, 2014 17:35
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Update 09 Well let's see what Queequeg can help us with things. : "I WILL TAKE CARE OF THE INTERLOCUTION."  Huh. To speak with an NPC you need to write on a text parser. This is neat! Asking for Queequeg's name leads to this.  Oh my. He knows of TREASURE!  But he cannot tell us where that treasure is since that is what he wants to know. I assume he wants to go and steal that treasure for himself.   Hm. Up? I wonder if that is the one that said he was not going out. Interesting.  Need a password then?  Oh here is something.  Oh goddamnit. We do not have that information.  Oh well.  Let's trade items and money then.  Using the pool option leads to all the cash being carried by a single dude. In this case, DETPOPE.  Hm. Expensive stuff! That's mysterious!  Cutlasses and broadswords oh my. And a couple of spells (a book and a scroll) that DETPOPE already has learned.   Well that is a bunch of stuff I don't really want to buy. Nope.  Let's see if STERV has what it takes. : "Magic pawpads are the key"  : "Well that was the wisest move" WELLLP.  That did not happen. No. RELOAD.   Let's just sell poo poo we ain't gonna use. The dirks, for example.  That is not a high amount of money, but better than nothing!  Huh. It seems that the things he sells change from visit to visit.  Except for this.  That's a pretty expensive potion!  That's not a bad amount of money for a sword that we cannot use. BUT that might change.  Well let's see what is directly opposit to Queequeg.  : "A MORGUE!" : "No, worse than that... BARRACKS!" : "For once that was not my fault!" : "... Well, that was."  Are those lizardmen? What.   : "Superior discipline!"   Well drat. MONMOON is getting more useful now that he can actually do SOMETHING besides psychic abilities.       Well now, let's see what is in this little closet.  : "WHY are there more people on this room than in the BARRACKS?"  : "AAAGH. I am all itchy! My WINGS are itchy!"  That is not a good thing!    STERV is slightly less bad at things now!  Stealing will be slightly easier, I guess?    MONMOON as well.  And he can recognize things slightly better.  THIS will be useful!  But yeah, that took everything out of them. Look at TINKLEE's stamina! drat.   The other closet thing has something similar. BUT there is a button! It barely shows on this screenshot, but there is a button.  See?  TINKLEE is also slightly less bad at hitting things!   And learned a spell.  TINYSAN also.  Shield!   Oh yay. A secret door!  Hm. Hms.
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Feb 21, 2014 19:02
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Those leather boots actually would have been a good buy. They're the best foot armor Sterv will see for a while, and maybe Tinysam as well (I'm at work and can't check). Thieves, bards, and rangers won't see better footwear for quite some time. I can't remember if samurai can wear them as well or if they're limited to buskins for most of the game. Also, Queequeg's inventory resets every time you exit the room and re-enter. Except for the mystery oil, which unsurprisingly you'll need later.
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Feb 21, 2014 19:13
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Yeah I noticed the oil's permanence. That is why TINYSAN has it under the Sword of Striking (which was not sold)
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Feb 21, 2014 19:16
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Luisfe posted:Yeah I noticed the oil's permanence. That is why TINYSAN has it under the Sword of Striking (which was not sold) Ah. Somehow missed that. Not trying to second guess you, just pointing out something you may have missed. Wizardry 6 and, God help you if you intend to proceed, 7 are not the most intuitive games.
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Feb 21, 2014 19:19
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Not sure if this has been mentioned yet... Does this game scale enemies as you level up? Or could you grind killer vines forever? So far it seems like there's a set amount of encounters in the game though.
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Feb 21, 2014 19:20
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Cythereal posted:Ah. Somehow missed that. Again, mostly blind! So if I do end up missing stuff a couple tips here and there would be quite appreciated! Also it is strange but I am feeling this game much less clunky than Strange Journey. Funny, that.
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Feb 21, 2014 19:26
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DariusLikewise posted:Not sure if this has been mentioned yet... Does this game scale enemies as you level up? Or could you grind killer vines forever? I've never played 6, but if it's anything like every other game in the series there are random encounters everywhere in addition to the pre-set encounters. I don't think any Wizardry except 8 scales enemy levels to you, either. I know 5 didn't.
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Feb 21, 2014 19:31
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DariusLikewise posted:Not sure if this has been mentioned yet... Does this game scale enemies as you level up? Or could you grind killer vines forever? Enemies in this game scale up based on area. You won't see rogue leaders, brigands, or scallywags on the entrance level of the castle, but you will in the basement. You could, if you were so inclined, stay in one area of the game and grind - there are a couple areas that are terrific for grinding in the castle, actually, that the LP hasn't gotten to yet. There are set encounters, and also random ones. There are set squares on the map guaranteed to trigger an encounter. Sometimes these are preset encounters, other times they're semi-random, picking from a list of options. Most often these are behind doors, so a good rule of thumb is to save before opening any door. There are also random encounters - there's a % chance for an encounter every time you step into a new square, reset, etc. In every area, there's a set bestiary for the area. Enemies have different chances for the number of ranks they appear in, and the max and min sizes of each rank. Easy mode decreases the min size of enemy ranks by one to a minimum of one and decreases the max size of enemy ranks by one to a minimum of one. Hard mode increases min size by one to a minimum of two and increases max size by one with no cap that I'm aware of. Incidentally, this is how hard mode's chief gimmick works. Boss monsters are an enemy rank of size min one, max one. So in hard mode, they're min two, max two. Meaning you get to fight two of the boss at once.
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Feb 21, 2014 19:33
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Cythereal posted:Incidentally, this is how hard mode's chief gimmick works. Boss monsters are an enemy rank of size min one, max one. So in hard mode, they're min two, max two. Meaning you get to fight two of the boss at once. I guess unique guys just show up with their evil twin.
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Feb 21, 2014 20:51
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So with hard mode you also level up faster, meaning the challenge is more from plot-locked gear not being available?
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Feb 23, 2014 05:17
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Glazius posted:So with hard mode you also level up faster, meaning the challenge is more from plot-locked gear not being available? In addition to some bosses being very tough if you don't know what you're doing, yes. This is particularly bad in Wizardry 7, which works the same way and as a distinct dearth of good weapons if you're not importing from 6. You're not really expected to grind much in these games, though. If you're changing classes regularly to turn your party into demigods - which the games more or less expect you to - the difficulty curve is pretty reasonable.
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Feb 23, 2014 05:48
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Update on monday. The 23rd is my sister's birthday.
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Feb 23, 2014 08:05
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This is all information you could have gotten from the manual but I don't think you read it. You keep putting points in things that are not spell skills. The spell skills never rise through use you need to pump them manually. Check the manual for required points for different levels of spells. They are skill, not level dependant. This is especially critical for the pope. Weapon skills all rise automatically (and quite quickly) through use. Also a lot of your skill points are getting pumped into class skills automatically, again check the manual for which skills are being auto allocated for which class. Cythereal posted:There are set encounters, and also random ones. There are set squares on the map guaranteed to trigger an encounter. Sometimes these are preset encounters, other times they're semi-random, picking from a list of options. Most often these are behind doors, so a good rule of thumb is to save before opening any door. There are also random encounters - there's a % chance for an encounter every time you step into a new square, reset, etc. Even every time you turn to the right or left or whatever you can trigger random encounters. Luisfe posted:Again, mostly blind! So if I do end up missing stuff a couple tips here and there would be quite appreciated! Do you want any real advice about how and when to do class changing and that sort of thing? Or are you planning on trying to go all the way without changing classes? Also there is a game breaking bug in the stock version that makes enemies resist all the level 7 spells, and an option to make mana regen not glacial so you might want to apply those patches to save yourself from going completely insane. You already accidently have a party full of people with slow mana regen with the exception of the single fairy. Washout fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Feb 23, 2014 |
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Feb 23, 2014 11:14
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Washout posted:This is all information you could have gotten from the manual but I don't think you read it. I gave it a read, but not a very thorough one, it seems! I would like that advice, going without changing classes would be a bad idea, since it appears to be a base mechanic. Was this the first game with class changing like that? Where would one find such a patch?
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Feb 23, 2014 17:36
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There is a utility called cosmic forge that is a viewer for all game data in addition to being able to patch these issues. The guy purposefully left out a character editor but you can still view all maps, but you have to enable that to see them. There are a total of 3 patches, one to fix max level spells, one to fix the mana regen, and the last one fixes the carry capacity bug (stuck with the carry capacity you have at initial character creation instead of it being dynamic depending on your actual strength score) http://mad-god.webs.com/downloads.htm When you change classes your stats are reset to the minimum requirements for that class any unlisted stats are set to the minimum for your race, so this means you need to stick with the top 5 "elite" classes with native high stats of Monk, Ninja, Lord, Samurai, and Valkyrie. To make it even easier you usually pick a pair of classes with related stats, these are (ninja/samurai) and (lord or valkyrie/monk). You could have preplanned your rolls somewhat to make the first class change easy and do it at like level 5, but you don't get that on a blind playthrough! For class changing this is usually best done as soon as you are able to qualify for another "elite" class, at around level 8 or 10. With experience working the way it does it is generally going to be pretty hard to get past level 10 until much later in the game (takes the same xp to go from 10->11 as it does to go from 1->10). So going like samurai -> ninja -> samurai -> ninja until you max your spells and skills is good. Or Monk -> Lord -> Monk -> Lord. Eventually you might change the bishop to a monk or samurai, but then probably never switch back due to fear of getting stuck there permanently because of low stats. In some cases you'll need to step up to the higher tier classes by first switching to Psionicist or Ranger and then up to one of the top 5. Since you used such low rolls to make your party in the first place this will probably be required for a lot of these dudes. You'll make your first class changes right around when the whole party is hitting level 8 or so probably, and then not be able to really grind up the class flip flopping until you get to a later area. Unless you feel really underpowered in the next area. As you already found, you don't have anyone that can use the really good weapons and armor (fighters, lords, and valkyries), like that sword of striking, so you probably want to change a few people over to lord or valkyrie as soon as you qualify. But it''s not super important to do that until you get out of the castle and into the next area. You may even want to save scum your level ups to make sure you are getting at least close to the correct stats. You won't want to switch your bard until you have at least two other people who can consistently sleep/hold enemies with spells. With all this in mind I switched classes on most of my guys like 4 times and a few more than that, and I still had to save/reload a lot of fights even in the late middle portion of the game when I thought I would be most powerful. So don't think of this as cheating at all! It's practically required!! I think the only way you can do the game without a lot of class changing is with a very carefully crafted party from the beginning.
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Feb 23, 2014 21:55
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Washout posted:With all this in mind I switched classes on most of my guys like 4 times and a few more than that, and I still had to save/reload a lot of fights even in the late middle portion of the game when I thought I would be most powerful. So don't think of this as cheating at all! It's practically required!! I think the only way you can do the game without a lot of class changing is with a very carefully crafted party from the beginning. An addendum to this: Wizardry 6 is not an easy game. The castle doesn't have anything too bad unless you drop into an area you're not strong enough to handle yet (or you get into a certain fight without a high level of blinding flash or a really buff party with cure poison), but it gets a lot harder as you go on. For example, recall the kirijitsu skill that grants a chance to inflict instant death? Enemies start getting chances to crit later in the game, to exactly the same effect. And that's aside from spells that inflict instant death, one of which hits the entire party.
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Feb 23, 2014 22:41
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Yep, all these super crazy spells that you have at level 1 like sleep that let you destroy entire big groups of monsters? In later areas the monsters get all these spells too. Super important to get magic screen up at max power asap.
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Feb 23, 2014 23:12
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Cythereal posted:An addendum to this: Wizardry 6 is not an easy game. The castle doesn't have anything too bad unless you drop into an area you're not strong enough to handle yet (or you get into a certain fight without a high level of blinding flash or a really buff party with cure poison), but it gets a lot harder as you go on. For example, recall the kirijitsu skill that grants a chance to inflict instant death? Enemies start getting chances to crit later in the game, to exactly the same effect. And that's aside from spells that inflict instant death, one of which hits the entire party. It's because of this, and features in later titles like the faction system in Wizardry 7, that are why the Wizardry series had a hard time getting new players outside of the most hardcore of RPG players. On the other hand, it was EA's appealing to wider demographics that actually killed Ultima, so I think the games holding up as well as they do should go as an example of not fixing what isn't broken. Washout posted:Also there is a game breaking bug in the stock version that makes enemies resist all the level 7 spells, and an option to make mana regen not glacial so you might want to apply those patches to save yourself from going completely insane. You already accidently have a party full of people with slow mana regen with the exception of the single fairy. THAT's what caused it? Son of a bitch... I remember grinding my mage up to get Nuclear Blast only to find it wouldn't even hurt rats! Well, if GoG didn't patch it up I'm definitely getting that unofficial patch when I reinstall.
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Feb 24, 2014 05:56
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Washout posted:There is a utility called cosmic forge that is a viewer for all game data in addition to being able to patch these issues. The guy purposefully left out a character editor but you can still view all maps, but you have to enable that to see them. There are a total of 3 patches, one to fix max level spells, one to fix the mana regen, and the last one fixes the carry capacity bug (stuck with the carry capacity you have at initial character creation instead of it being dynamic depending on your actual strength score) Well thanks! That could've saved a lot of rerolls on character generation, haha! The effects of the patches applied work for games already in progress? Also I can't find the max level spell fix. It says "Fix Affect All Spell resistance bug", Attribute Bonus Generation Algorithm, Resting algorithm and Remove/Restore swings per attack restriction for shoot and throw attacks. Nothing about max level spells. But seriously, thank you very much for the information. That is useful.
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Feb 24, 2014 06:21
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You want to just apply all those fixes probably. The spell resistance one is for the level 7 spells. None of them could be considered cheating except if you were doing a speed run or something, and yeah they apply to your existing game.
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Feb 24, 2014 10:46
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Outside exists? Man, I super sucked at this as a kid. I don't think the series mechanic of class swapping is explained in the manual. At least not what it is meant to do? (I.E. get more skill points, and more varied spells). Stat growth is pretty weird too, if the japanese Wizardry on the PS3 is anything to compare to.
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Feb 24, 2014 16:58
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Tylana posted:Outside exists? Man, I super sucked at this as a kid. I don't think the series mechanic of class swapping is explained in the manual. At least not what it is meant to do? (I.E. get more skill points, and more varied spells). Stat growth is pretty weird too, if the japanese Wizardry on the PS3 is anything to compare to. Stat growth is completely, utterly random. You might get +1 PER, or you might get +1 to every single stat. I don't think it's possible to get a completely empty level, but it wouldn't surprise me if it is.
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Feb 24, 2014 17:07
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Aha. I thought it rubberbanded around values based on class/race/level. Wouldn't surprise me if not. Can they go down too in the US Wizardrys?
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Feb 24, 2014 17:24
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Games of this era commonly had not just blank levels possible, but even stat LOSSES. Would not surprise me AT ALL to see a -1 pop up one time just to make you rage  So does it make me a bad person that I'm a little sad Luisfe is getting help? I SO wanted to see this attempted blind. I guess going into THIS game blind would be a recipe for getting your rear end beat though.
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Feb 24, 2014 20:50
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TwistedSynapse posted:I guess going into THIS game blind would be a recipe for getting your rear end beat though. Needing some pointers is nothing to be ashamed of in this series, and Wizardry 7 even more so than 6. 6 is, all told, fairly light on outright dick moves. It's hard, yes, but a well built party can handle most of it. It's even fair, after a fashion. Status effects like blindness and silence are hugely useful in both your hands and the enemy's.
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Feb 24, 2014 22:06
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