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This thread actually is the first time I've seen a lot of criticism of the "Stop the War" plot of season 2. I'm surprised. I thought it was a pretty bold story to do while the real president was marching into Iraq.
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Mar 28, 2014 22:42
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Echo Chamber posted:This thread actually is the first time I've seen a lot of criticism of the "Stop the War" plot of season 2. It's not really that the plot itself is uninteresting - and you're right, it's easy to forget the real-world context of an experimental show in its second season transparently criticizing the US government's major policy decisions - it's just that it felt tacked on and unnatural. Season 6 was more egregious, I think, but 24 has a bad habit of wrapping up the main "terrorist X has weapon Y" storyline with 6ish hours to go and having to jump to something partially or completely unrelated to fill the rest of the day.
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Mar 28, 2014 23:08
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GAINING WEIGHT... posted:It's not really that the plot itself is uninteresting - and you're right, it's easy to forget the real-world context of an experimental show in its second season transparently criticizing the US government's major policy decisions - it's just that it felt tacked on and unnatural. Season 6 was more egregious, I think, but 24 has a bad habit of wrapping up the main "terrorist X has weapon Y" storyline with 6ish hours to go and having to jump to something partially or completely unrelated to fill the rest of the day. On the other hand, Season 4 never switched up the villain or motivation and the third act seriously dragged because of it.
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Mar 28, 2014 23:22
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By this point isn't the whole US government made up entirely of moles from different organizations trying to destroy the US government?
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Mar 29, 2014 00:38
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ninjahedgehog posted:On the other hand, Season 4 never switched up the villain or motivation and the third act seriously dragged because of it. I dunno, the last six episodes had a lot of great stuff. They finished bringing back all the regulars, Jack has to invade the Chinese consulate and then kill Paul in order to save a prisoner, Palmer and Mike help Logan learn how to be President, Chloe fires a machine gun, Tony gets kidnapped by Mandy, Heller finds out his son is gay, etc. The finale was excellent as well (except for some dodgy green screen when Marwan makes his final escape... into hell!). I thought the second act is where the fatigue set in. Raged posted:By this point isn't the whole US government made up entirely of moles from different organizations trying to destroy the US government? That's literally what happened in season 7.
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Mar 29, 2014 00:40
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I always bring up season two's storyline as evidence that 24 is more than a rightwing fantasy. It's really about paranoia run rampant, across the spectrum. And while i quite liked the "let's push for war" material, those episodes also have a lot of Bauer wandering around aimlessly, and Sherry involved for no drat reason. It was like air being slowly let out of a balloon.
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Mar 29, 2014 03:01
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I can't believe the outpour of love for season 3. It's just in front of 6 for me as the second worst. Jack's disappearing heroin habit, an incredibly bland and boring villain in Saunders, Tony getting shot and coming out of surgery and back to work in like four hours, the idiotic Sherry Palmer subplot, Chloe bogarting Chase's baby, Chase generally being horrible, and Kim being in EVERY GODDAMN EPISODE. As someone working for loving CTU Not to mention that Fox was still doing their idiotic schedule format. Nina and Jack trapped together in Mexico? Jack saying that he didn't bear a grudge against Nina anymore, Nina saying "Convince me.", kisses him, and BAM. Episode over, 24 will return in four weeks. I hate season 3.
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Mar 29, 2014 03:06
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Narcissus1916 posted:I always bring up season two's storyline as evidence that 24 is more than a rightwing fantasy. It's really about paranoia run rampant, across the spectrum. I liked it too. It felt like a natural transition of the plot to me. ROSS MY SALAD posted:I can't believe the outpour of love for season 3. It's just in front of 6 for me as the second worst. You're definitely in the minority. Season 3 is one of the best seasons- if not best at least it's very consistent. Season 2 has my favourite cliffhanger in the entire series- Jack dying. What made that cliffhanger extra great was that promos refused to show Jack still being alive.
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Mar 29, 2014 03:30
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Narcissus1916 posted:I always bring up season two's storyline as evidence that 24 is more than a rightwing fantasy. It's really about paranoia run rampant, across the spectrum. Hell, season 5 - which is easily my favorite - was surprisingly leftwing and even borderline treasonous back when it first aired. I loved how after Republicans named season 4 their TV show of the year, they started complaining to Rush Limbaugh about how season 5 was basically HERE'S AN EVIL NIXON ANALOGUE AND HIS BUSH ADMINISTRATION-ESQUE OIL CONSPIRACY. ROSS MY SALAD posted:I can't believe the outpour of love for season 3. It's just in front of 6 for me as the second worst. I wasn't going to type out a rant like this but in my heart of hearts, I agree with you. And at the time, the third season was widely considered a major step down in quality from the first two years. Apparently its reputation has improved since then. Although the non-Jon Voight parts of season 7 are worse, in my opinion. As for Saunders... I'm pretty sure he had no motivation for wanting to unleash a virus that would wipe out the entire Western hemisphere. Seriously, he wanted to eradicate half the human race. Sure, he's another Operation: Nightfall baddie and was captured and tortured for awhile but talk about disproportionate retribution.
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Mar 29, 2014 03:37
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Yeah as much as people try to point to this whole show as a right-wing circlejerk (and make no mistake, the producers ARE right-wing crazies), there are just as many incidences of innocent people being tortured, torture not producing info, overly eager and incorrect hawkish foreign policy, incorrect racial profiling, corporations and greed as the ultimate evil (not Islam), etc., that you can just as easily say the show proves them wrong.
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Mar 29, 2014 09:01
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ElwoodCuse posted:[...] there are just as many incidences of innocent people being tortured [...] That's a thing they really drop after about season 4 though. Someone upthread mentioned that season 4 is kinda the point where the show switched from being a thriller to being all all about the action. Jack becomes REALLY infallible and all nuances it might have had when it comes to stuff like torture vanish into thin air. I think the accusations about the show being right-wing in that regard mostly stem from the fact that when our shining hero uses torture, it's okay, you know, 'cause he only uses it on the bad people, and he always knows who the bad people are   .
DominoDancing fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 10:14
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I've always liked the small twist in season 2 where you're led to believe Reza is the terrorist, but it turns out to be his white fiance who framed him. In general I think the plot of season 2 is interesting. There's all this stuff about Muslim extremism and the nuclear bomb and war with the Middle East and yet it boils down to a rich, white businessman attempting to get richer.
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Mar 29, 2014 12:50
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I feel like season 5 and season 6 both made the same mistake of starting off at the highest emotional moment. Season 5 kills off all these pivotal characters immediately, and season 6 sets off a nuke in California, and it's like, you've got 90% of the season left and you can't match the intensity of that moment. And season 6 really does meander a lot. Season 5 kind of pulled it together, but it really felt like FOX expected people only to tune in to the first 4 episodes of the season because it aired after NFL football, and had to throw everything they had into those 4 episodes instead of letting it build naturally. There is almost no tension to speak of in the later seasons. This isn't even a "it's not REALLY in real-time" thing, it's just.. bad direction. At no point are you on the edge of your seat, because there's just too much poo poo happening that they're cycling between and none of the plot threads make you super invested. Even if something really tense WERE happening, it would be deflated by the fact that oh no, Dana's ex-boyfriend is calling her again and are you loving kidding me with this boring poo poo stop it. Something extremely time precise is happening but hey hey hey hey hey Driscoll your daughter hey Driscoll your daughter!! DRISCOLL YOUR DAUGHTER!!! The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 15:41
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Quest For Glory II posted:I feel like season 5 and season 6 both made the same mistake of starting off at the highest emotional moment. Season 5 kills off all these pivotal characters immediately, and season 6 sets off a nuke in California, and it's like, you've got 90% of the season left and you can't match the intensity of that moment. And season 6 really does meander a lot. Season 5 kind of pulled it together, but it really felt like FOX expected people only to tune in to the first 4 episodes of the season because it aired after NFL football, and had to throw everything they had into those 4 episodes instead of letting it build naturally. What made season 5 work though was that it never forgot that the season was about Palmer's death. Season 5 moves incredibly fast and never lets go. In the first episode Jack kills the person who committed the assassination. Season 6 definitely lost steam after those 4 episodes which is a drat shame.
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Mar 29, 2014 15:44
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Season 6's main problem is exactly that. It pretty much sacrifices everything for an action-packed premiere. Jack is released from the Chinese but only as a sacrifice. He ends up escaping Fayed, stopping a terrorist attack on a subway, shooting his partner (Curtis) to save a witness, and then watches a nuclear bomb go off. It's so hard for things to escalate from there. They try their best to get his brother and father involved and make it personal but the whole thing is contrived. I've talked about it before but Audrey gets tacked on during the last few episodes and it's just bad. F/E: And season 5 definitely owes a lot to Charles Logan and also to Christopher Henderson, one of the best characters in my opinion.
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Mar 29, 2014 16:17
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Quest For Glory II posted:I feel like season 5 and season 6 both made the same mistake of starting off at the highest emotional moment. Season 5 kills off all these pivotal characters immediately, and season 6 sets off a nuke in California, and it's like, you've got 90% of the season left and you can't match the intensity of that moment. And season 6 really does meander a lot. Season 5 kind of pulled it together, but it really felt like FOX expected people only to tune in to the first 4 episodes of the season because it aired after NFL football, and had to throw everything they had into those 4 episodes instead of letting it build naturally. I don't think the argument you've made in your second paragraph is very strong if you're using it to solely condemn the later seasons of the show. There are plenty of crappy subplots in the earlier seasons too. How is amnesia, anything involving Kim, babies in CTU, anything involving Palmer in season 3, etc., etc., not a distraction or tension-deflating? I don't believe the later seasons had more time-wasting diversions than the earlier ones did (season 6 being the exception, as per usual). And CaptainHollywood concisely summed up why season 5 was able to maintain the intensity.
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Mar 29, 2014 16:57
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The CTU baby was a super stupid plotline. What the gently caress was that about, like why are there filler subplots. The show just gets overloaded with uninteresting plot threads when it could be focused on one exciting and nailbiting thing!! And then when that's over maybe you can go back to other stuff. The problem is that in the interest of making the show seem 'real-time' they try to have these storylines overlap but having them overlap the way they do actually weakens the show, and if it was written in a more conventional way it would actually be more entertaining. I'm hoping that the new season cuts down on that poo poo since there's only 12 episodes, and just focuses on the plot at hand. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Mar 29, 2014 |
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Mar 29, 2014 17:01
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I think everyone is looking forward to "all killer, no filler" in LAD because of the episode order being cut in half and the long amount of time they've had to craft the plot. If they can't pull it off this time then I'd be happy to just let the show die for good. Fortunately, I think there's a strong chance it will be successful.
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Mar 29, 2014 17:35
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The writers should have it made with only 12 episodes. It's the same creative team, right? 'Cause oddly enough, cutting 24 in half sounds great for the show, at least on paper. I'm continuing my season 8 re-watch. I think CTU was just hit by an EMP. Cool.
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Mar 29, 2014 17:44
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Oliver Reed posted:The writers should have it made with only 12 episodes. It's the same creative team, right? 'Cause oddly enough, cutting 24 in half sounds great for the show, at least on paper. Yep it's the same creative team. I remember really cool lighting/sound design for the initial effect the EMP has on CTU. All chaotic and poo poo.
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Mar 29, 2014 17:47
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In Day 5, did they ever explain how Jack appeared on CCTV at the scene of Palmer's assassination? Obviously it was a frame, but I don't remember it being addressed again after Edgar analysed the tape and CTU went "Holy poo poo, Jack Bauer killed David Palmer!" The EMP was one of the rare occasions when CTU was legitimately outwitted by the bad guys rather than a mole being involved or CTU having a flailing moron in charge. They did everything right, and still got nailed because nobody saw the danger until it was too late. There wasn't nearly enough of that kind of realisation (for both the characters and the audience) that the other shoe has already dropped, it just hasn't hit the floor yet.
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Mar 29, 2014 19:37
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What other cities would you like to see Jack Bauer unleashed in? I submit: Pune Makati North Conway, New Hampshire Screaming from the back of a rickshaw in Toronto
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Mar 29, 2014 19:46
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In praise of '24' and the perfect TV death
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Mar 29, 2014 20:57
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Palmer's death hasn't been matched by anything. I think the show to come closest has been House of Cards.
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Mar 29, 2014 21:25
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The best thing about Palmers death was immediately following it up with Michelles death. Palmer was a "Holy poo poo, they're starting the season off with a bang" moment but I don't think anyone was expecting another major character to die in the premier episode, before the first commercial break. I know I pretty much jumped out my seat going  .
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Mar 29, 2014 22:09
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They touch upon it but I think Game of Thrones has done it at least once and it felt in hindsight a lot more organic than Palmer who became kind of lost in the events of Day 5. By the third episode the plot had careened into the Ontario airport situation and then turned into a day 4 style of bunny hopping from enemy to enemy, contrived personal relationships, and gratuitous twists. I'm not sure why day 5 is held in such high esteem, but I suspect it's because of the strength of Logan and Henderson because the links from subplot to subplot are some of the most tenuous in the series. One subplot (Collette Stenger) makes no sense at all, one minute she works for Bierko, the next minute she works for Henderson. It's a mess.
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Mar 29, 2014 22:18
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Ravel posted:They touch upon it but I think Game of Thrones has done it at least once and it felt in hindsight a lot more organic than Palmer who became kind of lost in the events of Day 5. By the third episode the plot had careened into the Ontario airport situation and then turned into a day 4 style of bunny hopping from enemy to enemy, contrived personal relationships, and gratuitous twists. I'm not sure why day 5 is held in such high esteem, but I suspect it's because of the strength of Logan and Henderson because the links from subplot to subplot are some of the most tenuous in the series. One subplot (Collette Stenger) makes no sense at all, one minute she works for Bierko, the next minute she works for Henderson. It's a mess. This describes every single season of 24 so maybe you didn't like the show overall? The main plot always comes back to Palmer (the finale is all about bringing Logan to justice at the very site of Palmer's casket for christ's sake) and he is continuously mentioned throughout but it's 24 so Jack has to fight terrorists for awhile too. I liked how the Russian separatists start as pawns in the Logan administration's conspiracy before being backed into a corner and just saying "gently caress you guys" and unleashing nerve gas everywhere. I'm pretty sure that's the only time when the terrorists didn't want to attack America (they even gave Logan an out by helping them assassinate Suvarov) and only when they had no options left did they decide to use their WMD. It was a nice change of pace.
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Mar 29, 2014 22:31
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Ravel posted:They touch upon it but I think Game of Thrones has done it at least once and it felt in hindsight a lot more organic than Palmer who became kind of lost in the events of Day 5. By the third episode the plot had careened into the Ontario airport situation and then turned into a day 4 style of bunny hopping from enemy to enemy, contrived personal relationships, and gratuitous twists. I'm not sure why day 5 is held in such high esteem, but I suspect it's because of the strength of Logan and Henderson because the links from subplot to subplot are some of the most tenuous in the series. One subplot (Collette Stenger) makes no sense at all, one minute she works for Bierko, the next minute she works for Henderson. It's a mess. Tenuous but entertaining. There's a strong correlation between the best seasons and the best villains.
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Mar 29, 2014 22:36
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Spalec posted:The best thing about Palmers death was immediately following it up with Michelles death. Palmer was a "Holy poo poo, they're starting the season off with a bang" moment but I don't think anyone was expecting another major character to die in the premier episode, before the first commercial break. I know I pretty much jumped out my seat going If anyone has archives and wants a trip down memory lane, this is the live-viewing thread exactly a few seconds before Palmer's death and the following 5 pages of all caps.
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Mar 29, 2014 22:56
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This piece also points out that Netlix is pulling 24 from its stream. I guess it's many people's last chance to watch their favorite moments.
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Mar 29, 2014 23:38
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Anyone know if it's going to stay on Amazon Prime?
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Mar 29, 2014 23:40
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Geekkake posted:Anyone know if it's going to stay on Amazon Prime? quote:On the bright side, 24 will remain available to Amazon Prime Instant Video members after the series leaves Netflix. If keeping up with Jack Bauer is your main objective, then that’s the place to do it.
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Mar 29, 2014 23:47
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One of my favorite non-Jack kills was when Nina killed an informant with a gift card that she had snapped in half.
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Mar 30, 2014 00:10
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Twee as gently caress posted:If anyone has archives and wants a trip down memory lane, this is the live-viewing thread exactly a few seconds before Palmer's death and the following 5 pages of all caps. Thank you so much for the link! Reading through goons' reactions for that episode makes me want to rewatch season 5 all over again. Mister Kingdom posted:One of my favorite non-Jack kills was when Nina killed an informant with a gift card that she had snapped in half. "Nina, what did he just tell you?" "EVERYTHING!" *slits terrorist's throat with serrated gift card*
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Mar 30, 2014 00:36
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Geekkake posted:Anyone know if it's going to stay on Amazon Prime? Unlike Netflix, Amazon Prime doesn't have it in HIGH DEFINITION.
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Mar 30, 2014 00:41
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Echo Chamber posted:This piece also points out that Netlix is pulling 24 from its stream. I guess it's many people's last chance to watch their favorite moments. What????? I still have two more seasons! poo poo gently caress
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Mar 30, 2014 00:56
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Are we getting season 1-6 on blu-ray any time soon?
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Mar 30, 2014 00:58
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Oliver Reed posted:Are we getting season 1-6 on blu-ray any time soon? Nothing has been confirmed yet but I hope so. Now would be the time to do it.
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Mar 30, 2014 00:59
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Irish Joe posted:Unlike Netflix, Amazon Prime doesn't have it in HIGH DEFINITION. It does though because I watched it like two nights ago in the highest of definitions. I'm only in season 3 though so maybe that changes, I dunno. Be a weird thing to change, though.
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Mar 30, 2014 01:09
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Geekkake posted:It does though because I watched it like two nights ago in the highest of definitions. I don't know where you're getting that, but Amazon only has the last two seasons and Redemption in HD in the US.
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Mar 30, 2014 02:26
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