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Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

I used to play the good old Jack Bauer Power Hour in college, so this is like coming back for a homecoming or something.

Quick tip of the day, for fans who bailed in season six: Do give season seven a go. The new setting in Washington DC and largely new cast is absolutely worth your time.

Season eight is a strange beast with absolutely awful plots (katee sackhoff's character) but the last few episodes are friggin great for their lunacy. They're crazy, but they're also crazy in the BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

Also, if anyone wants a warm up before the new series, have you tried the 24 game? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r412OrRORf0

The actual gameplay is mediocre, but its basically ten hours of straight fanservice. It wraps up a dangling plot thread from 24's early years and tells a pretty dang decent story.

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Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

For my money...

Season 1 really was appointment television. A true thriller that didn't mind going multiple episodes without an action setpiece, I can't emphasize enough how different the first season feels. Its great and by and large holds up.

Season 2 demonstrates how quickly (and repeatedly) 24 would blow its load. We go from "assassinating a president" to "a nuclear bomb detonation" as the major threat. The back half of the season makes no drat sense whatsoever, but is a nice reminder that 24 isn't some conservative whackadoo fantasy. The show's roots are purely paranoia, and this is the season that had oil companies secretly lobbying the President into a middle eastern war under false pretenses. The same year America invaded Iraq.

Season 3 ditches the idea of telling two "acts" each season. This time around there's a spectacularly boring first act dealing with narco terrorism that never gets off the ground. There's a fun little tangent in Mexico that's notable for being so weird, and at least bumps up the excitement. The real fun comes in the back third, with a loony Paul Blackthorne as an ex-SAS agent out to wreck Los Angeles. Its pure pulp and one of my favorite stretches of 24.

Season 4 feels like the first season of the 24 we know and, well, occasionally watch. Constant action scenes propel the not-at-all interesting central plot. The writers try to mix up the usual rhythms by giving Jack a single major bad guy to take down, but instead of streamlining the narrative it does the opposite. The sheer amount of close calls and escapes the bad guy commits makes the already Keystone Cops at CTU look amazingly incompetent. Its also the first season to try and advertise as an "All new, all different 24" with a largely new cast. Of course, the writers slowly bring back all the fan favorites, which is both a relief and slightly disappointing.

Season 5 is the show firing on all cylinders, in nearly every way possible. Much as I enjoyed Dennis Haysbert, Charles Logan is mesmerizing to watch and finally makes the shows non-Bauer scenes worth watching. Everything with Logan is riveting, and the Jack Bauer side of things ain't too shabby either. The show will eventually regret some of the choices made this year, but this is one of the few seasons that never drags.

Season 6 is a goddamn mess. I'm a completionist when I watch TV - that's why I still watch How I Met Your Mother, the third season of The OC, and the last few years of Sons of Anarchy. And even they pale in comparison to the absolutely mindmeltingly awful sixth year. There's an initially compelling premise that the show junks after four episodes. A broken Jack Bauer teaming up with a shady former terrorist to stop a wave of full blown Islamic Attack - they've never quite wasted their premise so badly and for so little. Nonsensical tangents into Jack Bauer's personal life, a new cast at CTU that are so bad the show fired them all, a dull and ludicrously dumb political plot.... this is the season that nearly killed the show.

24: Redemption! Bauer shoots africans in africa for two hours! It's... okay, I guess. I don't really remember much of it at all.

As I mentioned before, I really did enjoy season seven. The show sends Bauer to Washington DC, and that spruces up every aspect of the show. It feels revitalized, newly confident in a way that's great to watch. The show grapples with Bauer's penchant for torture early and often, and actually manages to not go BONKERS INSANE for the first ten episodes. The plot does eventually get as large and schizophrenic as 24 often does, but the relatively quiet first act actually makes it feel earned. There are actual honest to God character arcs for someone other than Jack Bauer - Tony Almeida is the lynchpin that keeps the whole thing from falling apart. Annie Wersching is a great addition, poking and prodding Bauer in all the right ways. A lot of people can't stand the last few hours of season seven, and I've never quite figured out why. The show returns to some long dormant plot threads, including a far reaching conspiracy and Kim Bauer redeeming herself entirely. It also includes a surprisingly nuanced subplot where an islamic man offers Bauer a form of atonement for his actions that hints at the sort of murkiness that would later become Homeland's lifeblood.

Season eight is like watching an exhausted, old runner struggle to finish a marathon. The first half of the season is truly dull television. Its not offensively bad, but its hard to call it anything other than utterly mediocre. The new setting of NYC completely fails to add anything new to the show, and the writers even resort to bringing back several old elements for no reason whatsoever. It really is bad.

The latter half of season eight is somewhat saved by the writers realizing they were crossing the finish line. Jack truly goes full on insane, in a way I personally found believable. Stories and arcs are wrapped up rather well, all things considered.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

I used to post on TelevisionWithoutPity about 24 - it was probably the first show I ever really got invested in (my household never had HBO so I only watched The Sopranos in college).

And the weird thing is that despite the show having nonsensical twists and shaky moments in pretty much every season, I can STILL rattle off a good chunk of details about every season.

That list image was Ricky Shroeder getting blinded by a bomb or something. It also led to me cackling like a five year old, because those last few season six episodes are epic in their awfulness.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

24 is not a rightwing fantasy. It is, however, a paranoid crazy person's fantasyland.

Which means that you'll get scenes where Bauer tortures the EVIL Human rights lawyer (a tea party favorite), but you'll also have the bad guys behind several of the attacks be members of the oil and defense industries (Hi, crazy leftwingers!).

In later years 24 also veered away from "torture works EVERY TIME" as a constant story source. Instead, the show spent a bit more time about the personal cost of torturing on the torturers; both Jack and Renee's stories can be read as cautionary tales about the way torturing erodes everyone involved.

And to get highly academic (apologies in advance), I can't recommend this great video essay series enough. http://www.movingimagesource.us/articles/5-on-24-pt-5-citizen-20100524

Lots and lots of interesting stuff, from 24's political leanings to its place in the TV pantheon and all the ways that 24 innovated the industry.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

:dance:

I'm loving pumped the show is doing London. I live in LA now, but spent two years out in a London suburb. 24 was one of a very few handful of tv shows that registered in british culture, which always struck me as hilarious.

I think seeing Jack Bauer shooting the everloving gently caress out of bad guys is a universal pleasure.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

The creators, for all their flaws, have been incredibly open about what did and did not work on 24. If you think a plot sucked, they'll usually agree.

And season six started out so good - the muslim internment camps, a broken jack bauer working with a morally shady former terrorist, A rookie President trying desperately to honor his brother's legacy - there was so much potential that went utterly untapped.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

24 is a good example of why people talk about consistent logic over Capital L Logic.

It should make no goddamn sense that Bauer can stroll into the White House while he's in DC, but its a hell of a lot more believable than all of the MANY contrivances they had to use to keep the show in LA. Washington Dc opened up a bunch of new opportunities.

New York... did not.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

I'm also partial to the latter half of season 3, thanks to Paul Blackthorne's gloriously over the top performance. It is 24 at its absolute pulpy best.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

I'm also partial to season 3 as its the last season of 24 to feel like a thriller more than an action show. Season 4 transitioned nicely into the mandated action scenes every hour format, but the first three seasons really do feel like a loose trilogy.

Also, anyone else amused about Bauer's line in the trailer where he goes "This could start a world war!"

Well last we saw Bauer, he nearly started one singlehandedly. Much as I'm going to groan at yet another government stooge not listening to Bauer, at least this time there's ample evidence to be skeptical.

I'm really hoping they don't walk entirely away from the fact that Bauer basically became the show's Big Bad by the time it concluded.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

I had completely forgotten about Driscoll's awfully written and awfully acted daughter. Jaysus.

I liked season seven and thought it was a great revival of the series - and gives me hope they can bring the show back again. Of course, I also spent that year blitzed on beer and whiskey, so I might not have the most objective opinion.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

I was actually thinking of trying to rank the seasons, and then realized it makes MUCH more sense to divide each season into two or three parts - nearly every season has a vastly superior run of episodes with a chunk of horrid dross on either side.

Off the top of my head...
Season 1 had two distinct halves, with Gaines' death and the family's rescue definitively marking the middle.
Season 2 had the bomb go off, with a considerably weaker second half.
Season 3 is a bit odd in that its probably best to cleave it into three sections - the initial Salazar material, the sojourn to Mexico, and then the Saunders conclusion.
Season 4 is the only one that really doesn't fit into an established mold... IIRC there's like four middling plots of escalating stupidity all floating about.
Season 5 can be divided into two or three acts. I like to think of the first half building up to the attempted Suvarov assassination, and then the unfolding conspiracy as the other portion.
Season 6 had... well, I've blotted that season out. I think the chinese came back or some such horseshit.
Season 7, again, had a clear midpoint with the attack on the white house. Up to that point I actually liked the understated tone of the revamp, dead Tony's aside. The second half is gonzo bonkers, but had enough good material to keep me watching.
Season 8 had the diplomacy thing, but the season only became memorable once they tilted away from that with Jack on an epic revenge spree.

Its probably hyperbolic to say that 24 has had more like 16 seasons of cable-friendly TV, but doing a 13 episode miniseries should be an easy fit for them.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

I always bring up season two's storyline as evidence that 24 is more than a rightwing fantasy. It's really about paranoia run rampant, across the spectrum.

And while i quite liked the "let's push for war" material, those episodes also have a lot of Bauer wandering around aimlessly, and Sherry involved for no drat reason. It was like air being slowly let out of a balloon.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

The 24 game for the ps2 actually fleshes out a lot of shakier plot elements, including how Chase and Jack worked together. There's also closure to the conspiracy from season 2, they work in cameos for all the 24 favorites, and has freakin' Christian Kane as the bad guy.

It also has, I poo poo you not, an entire button dedicated to making Jack Bauer scream at his enemies. "Bauer! CTU!" "Drop it!" "I will SHOOT YOU"

Its not a great game, but its a great experience if you're a fan.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

i love season 7 actually using Kim well. I know some people found the stuff at the airport cheesy, but seeing her actually be useful was seven years in the making.

And every season of 24 has some absolutely awful subplots. generally speaking I can ignore them if the major plot is engaging. Season three did not have Mountain!Kim! But it did completely waste Sherri and President Palmer.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

Ricky Shroder getting a face full of explosion made me and my friend laugh so hard that we were actually reported in our dorm for a "noise violation"

That explosion is the perfect metaphor for 24's only truly awful year.

And yeah, season 8 is a really odd bag. The first half of the season is deadly dull, but it picks up momentum and it loving roars across the finish line.

Still hated how cliched Renee's death was handled, but I do admit that it gave a certain charge to the remaining episodes.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

23 minutes of behind the scenes footage. Light spoilers for the first few episodes, I reckon.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/618888

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

Season 4 is really the first season of the action-heavy version of the show. Its not bad, and the action scenes really are a cut above what they had previously (Bauer's infiltration and rescue of Heller remains a highlight), but there's a ton of goofy poo poo around the edges.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

Season 3 improves RAPIDLY. The first few episodes are a slog, but stuff like the white kid with the bioweapon wrap up really early.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

I kinda like season 3 more after-the-fact because of how well the 24 game slots into the space between season 2 and 3. You actually get to see how Jack and Chase became partners, along with all sorts of cameos from people like Chloe and Mandy and the whole 24 family

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

While its true of any show that ran for eight years, it is remarkable just how many characters existed in the 24 universe. So, so many people for Jack Bauer to either yell or shoot at (occasionally, both)

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

http://24.wikia.com/wiki/President_of_the_United_States

drat, even I forgot about a few, including President Ray Wise.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

The writers seriously debated whether to make the season six kid (Jack's nephew, I think?) a product of incest - between Cromwell and Sofer. To the point where the spoilers I read, which were 100% accurate for the previous five seasons, had mentioned that it was STILL a point of contention when they went to shoot the episode.

Season seven was also supposed to have a radically different second half - but I don't think they ever revealed what the initial plan called for. I think it may have been to keep Voight around longer, hence the abrupt turn away from his character.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

I'm fond of season eight's "You swallowed it, you dumb bastard" bit of Bauer insanity. The violence is mostly implied, but there's a shot of the guy with his stomach open that was seriously jaw-dropping.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

Any predictions on how the ratings will be?

The show did pretty great ratings even when it left the air, but how many people will return after four years away?

On the flip side, I've heard a ton of people mention that although they quit watching the show in its later years (Season six being the biggest culprit), they're coming back to the show because a) its airing in a shallow period of scheduling and b) Its only 12 episodes.

I'm expecting something around season seven or latter half of season eight quality. Not a great show by any means, but wickedly entertaining with enough logic and twists to keep me watching.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

That was as good as everyone has already said.

Already calling that we'll tilt to the chinese threat before the season's end. Mentions of the chinese increasing a military presence and Walker's husband selling secrets to them. No way do they not play a role in today's shenanigans.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

Given the show's obsession with current events, it also makes sense for China to play a larger role in the 24verse. Back in ye olden days of earlier seasons, I remember 24 being one of the few shows to treat China like a superpower and not a "Here be dragons!" land.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

Yvonne Strahovski had her career built by Chuck, and by good reason. She's one of a few actresses that are both glamorous and believable as a gun-toting secret agent.

And I get where VagueRant is coming from, Bauer is basically Batman at this point.

But I think that that progression was earned, particularly in the seventh year. Turning Bauer into some sort of intelligence urban legend is as inevitable as it is ironic, and I still think they've kept focus on his few tattered pieces of humanity left.

I wept like a sonofabitch when the muslim cleric issued Bauer his informal last rites, even though I knew he'd be back for another day or three of punishment.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

For all of 24's MANY problems, they've always been excellent at the basic tenets of story structure. timeandtide, I absolutely agree that this season will largely be the story of Bauer becoming human again.

And I don't think that Renee's death is meant to be the breaking point because she was SO IMPORTANT or whatever. Several season eight episodes hammered away at the idea that Jack Bauer wasn't on revenge mode, like an automatic killing machine. There are multiple moments where characters confront him with the idea that his suicide run has gone on long enough, he's made person X, Y, or Z pay but Jack keeps pushing on.

I'm not making much sense, but I'll wrap it up by saying that one of the reasons I loved season seven is that it subtly shifted the focus of the show. In prior seasons, 24 used torture as cheap narrative shorthand. But season seven says "We're 24, we're not going to tell you if torture is a necessary evil or not. But we are going to show you the COST that this has had on Jack Bauer, both physically and spiritually."

And that side of the show was always present, but if anything I feel like the more inhumane Jack has become the more they turn the spotlight on his struggles to stay connected.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

The show retained 94% of its audience during the premiere. That's crazy good, given that 24's later seasons had strong numbers and they're even stronger four years later.

The vibe I got from interviews with the creative team is that they're treating this as both an awesome extended epilogue and cracking the door open to more stories. I really don't think the 24 concept works well as a movie at all, and would love to see them doing more "mini seasons" whenever FOX and the team drat well feel like it.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

It makes sense that next week will conclude the first arc/act. Jack getting his balls shot at in the american embassy feels properly insane - and I too think that we'll get a time skip soon enough.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

OF COURSE they've gotten stuck crossing over to the final act. That news is hilarious to me. Never change 24, never change.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

Its easy to laugh every time a politician ignores Bauer's warnings, but I totally agree that his rampage o' murder changes that equation significantly. Jack didn't just "pretend" to snap. He flew off the cliff.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

Chloe and the hackers also released a ton of government documents - and Jack Bauer's name was mentioned as appearing. While we don't know if ALL of Jack's "Crimes" are listed, there's plenty of things to choose from.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

The game is worth a weekend playthrough if you can grab the game and a few beers.

It was written by one of 24's writers and really shows - it actually resolves the dangling plot thread of who tried to kill President Palmer in season 2's finale.

It also includes a TON of fan service - Lesbian assassins and Nina and Salazar and Chloe all make cameos, and large chunks of the narrative are dedicated to giving Chase Edmunds some actual goddamn backstory.

It is also totally A.D.D. the game - in one 30 minute stretch of time you'll chase a runaway van down the freeway, track it into an office building, shoot the poo poo out of said office building, interrogate the terrorist, play as a ctu hacker scanning for snipers, and then finally play as Jack Bauer behind a sniper rifle.

It is not an objectively good game. It is, however, a great example that the key to a good licensed game is respect for the source material.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

They really are perfecting the formula. To quote Walter White -

"We used a different chemical process, but it is every bit as pure."

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

Speaking of nerding out to 24 - after the "The following takes place between X and Y." I always yell "ON THE DAY OF THE CALIFORNIA PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY."

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

The casket could be for some of the american soldiers killed way back in the premiere, or poo poo - any other americans killed between then and now. I have no drat idea where this season is going to end; that's drat refreshing to say.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

The complete waste of Siddig was a goddamn crime. There was a GREAT season they had planned out - A broken Jack Bauer having to rely upon a moderate terrorist in the strangest buddy comedy of all time.

And they junked all that for... poo poo, I don't even know WHAT.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

I'm a goddamn pussy - the only time that 24 really made me get weepy was Jack's near death in season seven.

The scene where the muslim imam gives Jack an informal last rites just hit me deep, deep in the gut.

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Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013

Goddamn it, a girl from work asked me out for drinks this Monday. I'm totally going to try and grab a few drinks with her, then frantically run out of the place to get to mine by 9 pm.

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