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Meechum no, no, noo, nooooo 
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Feb 16, 2014 04:41
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A couple other really fascinating character moments: - Claire's breakdown on the stairs reminded me of Melfi asking Tony Soprano why a shark stays in motion and suggested that if he ever stopped moving he would have to confront what he's done. This is the first time in the series I remember that Frank or Claire has put their relentless ambition on hold to actually think about the consequences for the people they use and the guilt instantly causes her to breakdown. Even though she can make a believable defense of her actions to anyone she herself knows exactly how impure her motives were throughout the rape/abortion arc - Frank's decision with Zoe was such a perfect encapsulation of his "ruthless pragmatism": she's the biggest liability, the risks of discovery were managed and minimal and he's already a murderer anyway. I've seen some people suggest this was a jump the shark moment for the show but really it was Frank and Beau Willimon telling the audience 'cut the poo poo, you already watched a murder so what's one more...' If she hadn't followed him around that corner or if the train hadn't come at the right time he would just have found another scheme but this was the simplest and most effective - desperate men with everything to lose make the decision to murder every day, through rarely with Frank's complete amorality and ability to cover his tracks
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Feb 16, 2014 04:49
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Michael Corleone posted:E: Actually, I think he would get 2 terms. The President was elected in 2012 and took office 1-20-13. The season end a few weeks before 2-13-15, so the timing is ambiguous probably because Netflix can then play with this fact when planning future plot points.
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Feb 16, 2014 05:19
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What a season. Perfect, except for two things that bothered me. 1) Kevin Spacey's weird crab-claw flippy baseball throws. And I think he threw something else to someone this season and it was equally awkward. They needed to get him a throwing-things coach. 2) Zoe Barnes death was great. But. How do you view security footage, go frame by frame and not observe the person walking out from the purple region just one second later, and not go, "Hey we should at least ask this person what they saw, and maybe find them as the skulk away from an ambiguous suicide." But instead the cop stopped advancing frames the moment he would have walk into view. Hurt my lovely immersion into the world. Unless it was explained and I missed it. 
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Feb 16, 2014 05:20
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Michael Corleone posted:E: Actually, I think he would get 2 terms. The President was elected in 2012 and took office 1-20-13. The season end a few weeks before 2-13-15, so the timing is ambiguous probably because Netflix can then play with this fact when planning future plot points. Can't be, because the midterms (4 Nov 2014) haven't happened yet -- that's one of the key points around the impeachment deal. So the latest the last episode can be is 3 Nov 2014 (and there's no indication that the midterms are being held the next day -- no imminent election / campaign talk). Assuming Frank wins in 2016, by the Jan 20 2021 (when the 2020 election winner would take office) he'll have served a minimum of 6 years 2.5 months and so will be ineligible for another full term. regulargonzalez fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 05:22
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Unmerciful posted:- Frank's decision with Zoe was such a perfect encapsulation of his "ruthless pragmatism": Good points here and in your other posts in the thread. Zoe's murder is certainly not a 'jump the shark' moment, and I think that anyone who would suggest that is conflating their love for that actress/character with what was a necessary and compelling way to advance the story. I might criticize the show for other things, but not for that. In addition to what you said, it also makes it clear that while Frank is generally the manipulative, scheming type (setting people against each other, seeding disinformation and playing the long game) when the circumstances are ripe he's also perfectly capable (maybe even eager) of directly taking action on his own and getting his hands dirty, with no moral qualms AT ALL.
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Feb 16, 2014 05:25
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You guys convinced me. The trouble I have is that in either the first episode it was 2-13-14 and right around Franks Birthday. And then at the end of the last episode Claire gives Franks a Bday gift but says it is a few weeks early. So, shouldn't this make the end of E13 late Jan/early Feb 2015? Did they mess up continuity somewhere or am I wrong again?
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Feb 16, 2014 05:26
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Michael Corleone posted:in either the first episode it was 2-13-14 e: according to http://house-of-cards.wikia.com/wiki/Frank_Underwood (take with a grain of salt), his birthday is in July, which means by the end of the assumed term he'll have served almost exactly 2.5 years. regulargonzalez fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 05:29
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regulargonzalez posted:I don't remember this, what is this based on? Someone said the date out loud, I don't remember who.
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Feb 16, 2014 05:30
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Gavin made Lucas say the date when they first met, during his "interrogation".
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Feb 16, 2014 05:33
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Michael Corleone posted:You guys convinced me. The trouble I have is that in either the first episode it was 2-13-14 and right around Franks Birthday. And then at the end of the last episode Claire gives Franks a Bday gift but says it is a few weeks early. So, shouldn't this make the end of E13 late Jan/early Feb 2015? Did they mess up continuity somewhere or am I wrong again? Nevertheless, I don't see this show's concept going on long enough for two more presidential elections. I mean, it's not like its The West Wing. I feel like the ideal thing to do is have one more season about Frank battling against an impending downfall and trying to secure his legacy, framed around the 2016 campaign season. Lycus fucked around with this message at 05:38 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 05:35
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The FBI agent totally looks like the evil version of McNulty from The Wire.
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Feb 16, 2014 05:55
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Did anyone else feel like Stamper was another one of those loose threads they tried to rapidly tie up all at the start of the season, but just sort of copy-pasted the plot point to the end instead? They should have just pulled the band-aid because his slowly escalating lesbian creepathon was unnecessary and bad.
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Feb 16, 2014 06:22
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Just got the the Subway in episode one.  HOLY poo poo! This show just jumped directly into my top 5 T.V. shows of all time. Can't believe it happened, and can't imagine how anything this season, or for the rest of the series' life, can top what I just saw. RIP Zoe.
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Feb 16, 2014 06:42
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Just finished watching the last episode of season 2. Some random thoughts: The first episode was so ridiculously over the top nasty that I had a hard time getting through it. So unpleasant. It didn't seem right that Frank was almost completely untouched by the money laundering scandal. I laughed so hard at the Meecham three-way. I think Stamper's murder foreshadows further violence against one or both of the Underwoods. One can only hope. Jimmi Simpson is awesome. I'd watch a Gavin Orsay show. The show in season 2 has turned into a cartoon... it's entertaining, which I guess is the bottom line, but some of the things that happen on the show, particularly the way people that Frank and Claire repeatedly screw over instantly forgive them both and allow themselves to be manipulated, defies belief. The president's behavior was baffling to me.
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Feb 16, 2014 06:47
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I loved this season. I like how the war between Tusk and Underwood played out, with no holding back. I loved the realization that taking Tusk out put himself in the line of fire in a bad way. It really helps add to the feeling that you are watching two titans clash. I did have a problem with Senator Tea Party, he seems like a not crazy enough stand in for Ted Cruz. Granted, if you wrote a character like Cruz into fiction, there would not be enough suspension of disbelief. I would have liked to see Sen. Tea Party be more of a rival/thorn in the side of Underwood. I Also, Zoe should have seen it coming. She came off as far too naive and trusting to Underwood, especially since she feared he might have had Russo murdered. If she was thinking, the texts were good insurance against herself, since I assume that there was enough to paint a picture of their affair. And after removing any trace of their relationship, Telling Underwood that you think Russo was murdered. I guess it never occurred to her that if a person was desperate to kill once, he may do so again. But it did surprise me, as I did not expect it that early in the season. I thought we might get a few more episodes of Zoe connecting the dots, but we do get Lucas walking into the biggest trap since Return of the Jedi. speng31b posted:Did anyone else feel like Stamper was another one of those loose threads they tried to rapidly tie up all at the start of the season, but just sort of copy-pasted the plot point to the end instead? They should have just pulled the band-aid because his slowly escalating lesbian creepathon was unnecessary and bad. I don't think it would have worked the same way. Stamper had it coming, but it worked because you saw him trying to control her in an unneeded way. Without the whole trading one addiction for another, his death would have lacked any impact. But, his addiction killed him in the end, and besides, it works as a great callback to the reenactment episode. Personal note: As an Orioles fan, I really did love the "O" emphasis during the national anthem. It's a little thing I would expect writers to miss, and I was so happy it was there.
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Feb 16, 2014 07:03
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wins.
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PassTheRemote posted:but we do get Lucas walking into the biggest trap since Return of the Jedi. I enjoyed that part in this season, since getting arrested by an undercover agent is a likely outcome of posting "lolz can u hack the vice president" on the first hacker forum you find and then acting on the advice of the first hacker who says yes (even if every individual element of that subplot was really cartoonish and out of place). MegoSteve posted:It didn't seem right that Frank was almost completely untouched by the money laundering scandal. I hope this comes back to haunt him, since now Tusk is probably facing an eternity in prison and has no pet president to give him a pardon so he has no reason not to name Frank. Frank could offer clemency to shut him up, but that would raise lots of suspicion (maybe he'll take suspicion over impeachment). Sir Mat of Dickie fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 07:30
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Sir Mat of Dickie posted:I hope this comes back to haunt him, since now Tusk is probably facing an eternity in prison and has no pet president to give him a pardon so he has no reason not to name Frank. Frank could offer clemency to shut him up, but that would raise lots of suspicion (maybe he'll take suspicion over impeachment). Frank did offer him a pardon, that's the whole reason Tusk went ahead and talked in the first place after the former Pres called him to say the deal was off. Remember in the theater hall way thing?
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Feb 16, 2014 07:43
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Sir Mat of Dickie posted:Frank could offer clemency to shut him up, but that would raise lots of suspicion (maybe he'll take suspicion over impeachment). I know it's not quite this cut and dry in real life, but Underwood could just put the long national nightmare, to borrow a phrase, behind them by giving everyone that may or may not have been involved a pardon. I'm most excited for S3 now. Underwood accomplished his stated goals from S1; the President is ruined. Now, how in the actual poo poo do you survive the clusterfuck you caused do make it happen? Not a lot of... any media ever, really, has approached that question, and certainly not for 13 hours.
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Feb 16, 2014 07:46
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Dear Sergio posted:Frank did offer him a pardon, that's the whole reason Tusk went ahead and talked in the first place after the former Pres called him to say the deal was off. Remember in the theater hall way thing? Didn't Tusk turn down the offer? Maybe I should rewatch that part. edit: Okay, after rewatching, I guess I misinterpreted Tusk's parting remark as a definite no when it was just a "gently caress you." Sir Mat of Dickie fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Feb 16, 2014 |
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Feb 16, 2014 07:46
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Shadow Puppet Of posted:But instead the cop stopped advancing frames the moment he would have walk into view. Hurt my lovely immersion into the world. Unless it was explained and I missed it. I thought that was really really weird too. I think it's definitely going to come back and bite francis in the rear end because in episode 6 we see this for a brief second:  For those needing a refresher, it was shown when lucas's old newspaper friend was doing all the research to write the article for Lucas. Clearly they had access to some sort of version of the video where they can take screenshots of it, but I couldn't exactly figure out how they got access to it because the cop says they didn't release the video out of respect to the parents of Zoe.
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Feb 16, 2014 08:55
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One other thing: I'm interested to see if the voters come up in season 3, like, at all. I can understand how Urquhart could get into a position like this (Prime Minister, or, leader of the ruling party), given parliamentary procedure, but for America to have a person go from the elected representative of a single district to president of the country without being submitted to a vote seems like the sort of hubris Rachel Maddow (!!!) would be all over.
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Feb 16, 2014 09:17
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Propaganda Machine posted:One other thing: Happened with Jerry Ford, who of course had nothing to do with Watergate (and was tapped for the vice presidency precisely because he was a straight arrow) but did become president without ever coming to a national vote
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Feb 16, 2014 09:22
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Propaganda Machine posted:One other thing: But I do hope to see some 2016 next season.
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Feb 16, 2014 09:23
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Anyone else hungry for ribs?
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Feb 16, 2014 09:37
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So Underwood is the 46th president. I guess in the House of Cards-verse, Walker must've primaried Obama in 2012.
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Feb 16, 2014 09:39
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Lycus posted:So Underwood is the 46th president. I guess in the House of Cards-verse, Walker must've primaried Obama in 2012. Walker kind of strikes me as the kind of guy who exists on the national stage because Obama didn't. I figured McCain or a fictional Republican won in 2008 and lasted a single term. But I don't think the show mentions any real presidents after Clinton so anything's possible.
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Feb 16, 2014 10:13
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PaganGoatPants posted:Meechum no, no, noo, nooooo He sure is loyal. 
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Feb 16, 2014 11:16
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Open Source Idiom posted:Not to be "that goon" or anything, but I was kinda peeved at the way the shot of two guys kissing slid off the screen just as they connected, and was almost immediately replaced by two women writhing all over each other. I get what was going on in terms of narrative, (and I can definitely see why some of y'all wouldn't complain!) but it was a bit of an awkward double-standard. I noticed that, too. I wonder who it was that decided we shouldn't see Frank kiss another man.
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Feb 16, 2014 11:22
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I was fairly disappointed by that finale. Having to wait a year to watch Frank fall is going to be tough. I mean, at least Stamper got what was coming to him, but that wasn't enough.
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Feb 16, 2014 11:27
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Skittle Wood posted:I was fairly disappointed by that finale. Having to wait a year to watch Frank fall is going to be tough. I mean, at least Stamper got what was coming to him, but that wasn't enough.
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Feb 16, 2014 11:41
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I didn't enjoy this season as much as the first one. Frank's plan was clever, sure, but it only succeeded because his enemies were stupid. I think it's because the President wasn't given much characterization except as his victim. I could buy his reaction to the China stuff, the scandal, the way Claire manipulated his wife into counseling, all of that -- but it's hard to imagine anyone who would have done what's necessary to become the President not taking any of the numerous outs that he had, especially Frank's confession. I also really don't understand Linda's motivations for resigning. She was probably the most observant and competent of the President's allies, but she resigns because Frank... yells at her really sternly?  I think both of my complaints come from poor pacing. The middle episodes of this season stretched on a bit too long while the end (by which I mean the maneuverings surrounding impeachment) felt rushed. If they'd been able to spend less time developing Tusk/Feng/Lanagin and more time developing the President, I think the ending might have been more satisfying. I also found myself missing the soliloquies and little asides to the camera. I admit that I fell for it in the first episode of the season and laughed a little at "Did you think I'd forgotten you?" (since up to that point I had been disappointed at the lack of them), but then throughout the season they became fewer and more perfunctory, like the writers happened to remember that the show had it as a gimmick. The first season, and the UK show, I think, used them really well to draw you into FU's scheming, add some characterization and even kind of accuse the viewer for enjoying what they were seeing, but that was mostly absent this time around. I did really enjoy Claire. She was my favorite character in the first season, and I liked that she was more active in this season. Her actress really sells the role and can communicate a lot with a glance, slight nod, or even a slightly different version of the normal blank expression she wears. I think it's also interesting that she doesn't visibly grapple with the trauma in her past or have more than the slightest sliver of regret about how awful a person she is. The crying scene, in particular, was notable to me because it didn't even seem like she was crying even though she was clearly trying to. It was also interesting to see Claire amused with Frank and his Civil War miniatures -- "You think it's childish." / "I think it's better than video games" is probably the closest to a laugh she's ever been. (In general, it's nice to have an anti-hero show where the character's wife isn't a dupe, victim, wet blanket, or Lady Macbeth, but instead is a full partner in the wickedness going on.) I also enjoyed the Freddy episode in particular. It's a shame that it was his exit, but I suppose the President can't eat at a rib shack, so it was inevitable and better than just letting that aspect of Frank's life invisibly fade away between seasons. Killing Stamper was probably a good choice for the show. He was a good character, but it doesn't do any good to have Frank have a bunch of allies with conflicted loyalties (the press secretary, possibly Remy) if he has one guy who's totally loyal and dedicated. I'm interested to see where the show goes in the next season, but I worry that Frank won't be as interesting as the President now that he's done what he set out to do.
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Feb 16, 2014 12:54
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Tao Jones posted:I also really don't understand Linda's motivations for resigning. She was probably the most observant and competent of the President's allies, but she resigns because Frank... yells at her really sternly? I agree, but I don't think there was much time to portray her motivations. I just chalked it up to a hasty decision made out of spite and pressure of what could be a job that quickly feels thankless for the hours it demands. But it wasn't well supported in the story. UtahIsNotAState posted:I thought that was really really weird too. I think it's definitely going to come back and bite francis in the rear end because in episode 6 we see this for a brief second: Ah thank you. At least Frank hasn't yet turned completely into Hannibal Lecter from Hannibal where his brains are augmented with convenient powers of stealth and invisibility when the plot demands it.
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Feb 16, 2014 13:07
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Tao Jones posted:I didn't enjoy this season as much as the first one. Frank's plan was clever, sure, but it only succeeded because his enemies were stupid. I got very excited then quickly disappointed whenever a character saw through Underwood only for it to not matter because he just has to win. If only just one character didn't say to his face that they know what he's up to, maybe someone would've been able to gain the upperhand.
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Feb 16, 2014 13:09
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If there's ever a Hollywood Discworld movie, Kevin Spacey needs to play Vetinari. 
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Feb 16, 2014 13:37
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Linda resining was a tactic. She was hoping it would wake up President Walker to how valuable she is and how Frank was dominating everything. It didn't work obviously, though it earned a respect from Frank since she risked all.
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Feb 16, 2014 13:41
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Found it somewhat hilarious that the approval-rating polling POTUS used was Zogby. Dude really is a chump.
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Feb 16, 2014 14:45
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No Wave posted:Most memorable moments from S2: My memorable moments: 1.  2. Kevin Spacey's wonderful take on Polly Pretty Polly
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Feb 16, 2014 15:24
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I liked how Stamper's death (bashed to death with a rock in the woods) mirrored grandpappy Underwood's death so closely.
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Feb 16, 2014 15:36
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Lancelot posted:I liked how Stamper's death (bashed to death with a rock in the woods) mirrored grandpappy Underwood's death so closely.  I need to pay closer attention
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Feb 16, 2014 15:43
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