|
Best Producer/Showrunner? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Verity Lambert |
|
49 | 7.04% |
| John Wiles |
|
1 | 0.14% |
| Innes Lloyd |
|
1 | 0.14% |
| Peter Bryant |
|
3 | 0.43% |
| Derrick Sherwin |
|
3 | 0.43% |
| Barry Letts |
|
12 | 1.72% |
| Phillip Hinchcliffe |
|
62 | 8.91% |
| Graham Williams |
|
3 | 0.43% |
| John Nathan-Turner |
|
15 | 2.16% |
| Philip Segal |
|
3 | 0.43% |
| Russel T Davies |
|
106 | 15.23% |
| Steven Moffat |
|
114 | 16.38% |
| Son Goku |
|
324 | 46.55% |
| Total: | 696 votes | ||
|
Ratspeaker posted:Not me, I guess. I don't know, I really enjoyed Donna as a companion, so you'd think I'd like Lucy too, but something about her just grates on me. Lucie has 2 parts to her character: 1) Outspoken Donna-like companion who will challenge the Doctor 2) Sassy Rose-esque lower middle class girl next door Evelyn does one the best, and Flip does a far better job of two. Flip is just basically a superior, not-annoying Lucie from what I've heard of her so far.
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 05:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 03:45 |
|
|
Needs nose drip. Aaaaand ear drips.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 05:54
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 05:56
|
|
|
Oh my god.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 05:57
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:Oh my god. it's funny you say that because 
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 05:58
|
|
|
I can't remember, but did somebody do one of Tom Baker? And, counter to everybody else, was Tom going  ?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 06:42
|
|
|
What have they done to Colm Meaney?  And just for the hell of it.           (My five minutes of looking did not give me 11 or Dr. Hurt) BUT BONUS GIFS:   
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 06:43
|
|
|
Ahahahahaha, he just looks so exasperated, it's perfect.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 06:46
|
|
|
Astroman posted:Flip is just basically a superior, not-annoying Lucie from what I've heard of her so far. You wash those posting hands with soap, young (astro)man!
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 11:56
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Ahahahahaha, he just looks so exasperated, it's perfect. Check out my avatar to see what he looks like on a sunny day! And yeah, we need one with all the Masters, smiling, because they would smile because it's raining. whatsabattle posted:What have they done to Colm Meaney? HE CARRIES AN UMBRELLA!!
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 12:17
|
|
|
Davros1 posted:HE CARRIES AN UMBRELLA!! He's playing a long game here, don't question it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 12:19
|
|
|
 The Tom Baker one doesn't even look sad, just like his buzz is starting wear off.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 16:23
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:
What's the difference?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 17:07
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:
That's more or less cause for Tom Baker to be sad.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 00:36
|
|
|
Here is your unnecessary reminder that Tom Baker rules    
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 00:43
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Here is your unnecessary reminder that Tom Baker rules 
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 00:55
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:Here is your unnecessary reminder that Tom Baker rules Unnecessary? I do believe we are about to throw hands good sir.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 03:22
|
|
|
Davros1 posted:HE CARRIES AN UMBRELLA!! Yeah, usually. Why do you think he's sad?
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 03:28
|
|
|
TWO Romanadvoratrelundars?
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 03:51
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:TWO Romanadvoratrelundars? Is it the 4th Doctor's fantasy? Or Tom's? Or does it not matter? 
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 04:25
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:TWO Romanadvoratrelundars? I'm seeing double, K-9... Four Romanas!
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 05:21
|
|
|
So did he just break this guy's neck or what? I could never tell for sure.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 06:11
|
|
|
Ratspeaker posted:So did he just break this guy's neck or what? I could never tell for sure. Gallifreyan Nerve Pinch. Part of that Venusian Judo deal.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 06:26
|
|
|
Ratspeaker posted:So did he just break this guy's neck or what? I could never tell for sure. Don't worry, the guy survives..... then gets choked to death by a giant water-weed later on!
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 06:37
|
|
|
I love Utopia a lot, which is kind of weird because for a great chunk of the story it's a rather pedestrian and uninspiring affair. I firmly believe it was a deliberate choice to make the structure of the story mirror the character arc of Professor Yana - Charming if a little old fashioned; clunky and even a trifle embarrassing until suddenly you realize that something special is happening, that you're witnessing a masterclass in building to a tense and exciting climax. What at first seems a completely separate story from the main arc of the season suddenly ties in directly, just as an old man who feels like a pleasant one-off supporting character becomes the integral antagonist and does something entirely new for an episode of Doctor Who - the bad guy wins. This episode also ties in with the end of spin-off Torchwood's first season, though happily it isn't required viewing to get caught up on what is going on. The Doctor takes an unimpressed Martha to Wales to fuel up the TARDIS at the rift, promising they'll leave as soon as possible. It ends up being even sooner than that when he spots Captain Jack rushing towards them and immediately dematerializes, but not before Jack has grabbed hold of the side. Horrified at the wrongness of Jack, the TARDIS tries to escape his paradoxical existence and takes them to the very end of the universe, a time when all the stars have burned out and the last survivors of humanity are huddled together in the darkness hoping against hope that the promised land of Utopia exists. Jack's inability to remain dead comes as a surprise to everybody but the Doctor, and he finally gives Jack the answers to the questions he's had for the last 100+ years - Bad Wolf Rose "brought life", and that is the way he will always be now - a person "infected" with life, every time he dies life returns to his body. Despite this pretty massive change though, this is still the Jack familiar to viewers from his time with the 9th Doctor and Rose, shucking his Torchwood persona and reverting to type - flirty and bemused and having a great time. He flirts shamelessly with everybody and everybody enjoys it immensely, but proves more than just comic relief. His immortality comes in handy as he works in a radiation flooded room, but this also allows for one of the stronger scenes in the episode, one easily forgotten due to the amazing poo poo going on about the same time with Derek Jacobi. As he works on the devices, he and the Doctor discuss his nature, his history after being abandoned, and the Doctor asks a very pertinent question of him - does he WANT to die? It's nice to see the Captain Jack we knew from season one fitting back into the show so easily with Tennant, and also seeing he has some depth beyond the juvenile nonsense of Torchwood - he proves a nice bridge between the 9th Doctor and the 10th Doctor, and brings back a pivotal object from the start of Tennant's era which will have enormous implications down the line - his severed hand. It's just a shame that the episode sees fit to throw in a flashback to the scene in question, it feels a trifle condescending and could have been just as easily accomplished by the Doctor saying,"My hand was cut off during an alien invasion a couple of Christmas' back." The actual meat of the story is pretty drat generic up till the point that poo poo goes insane, and I really do believe this is deliberate - they filmed it in a quarry, for God's sake! The basic theme is that humanity proved the ultimate survivors yet again, making it all the way to the end of the universe... but now what do they do? There are rumors of "Utopia", the end result of a long-running scientific race to discover a way to survive the end of Reality itself, and a message spreading out across the remains of the universe telling people where to go... but to get there, they need a ship capable of bringing the last remnants of humanity through the long dark of an unwinding reality. Professor Yana is their only hope, a charming and amicable old man who has a theory but simply can't put it into practice, and who looks at the arrival of another scientist in the Doctor as HIS only hope. Outside the base/mineshaft holding the survivors of humanity are the "Futurekind", who are quite frankly embarrassing, an utterly nonthreatening and laughable "menace" who come across as more camp than sinister. In hindsight they represent the first slide/devolution of humanity to escape the pain and terror of the knowledge of their fate (ultimately expressed as the Toclafane), but within the context of this episode they're just awful... awful. The kind of campy villain you might expect from the worst aspects of the classic series. That's part of why the story at first doesn't seem to work, there is no antagonist outside of the rather nebulous threat of entropy itself, which funnily enough isn't the first Doctor Who story to feature that "monster". Just like in Logopolis, the show looks to the same villain to step in as the personification of the bad guy. As the main plot builds to its rather unsatisfying climax (the rocket takes off and the people escape the planet), the realization starts to grow that something else is happening here, something special. Derek Jacobi plays Professor Yana, the kindly old eccentric genius who holds the fate of the last remnants of humanity in his unsure hands. In that role he does his usual excellent work, the character fully aware of his limitations and humbly enjoying the praise of others (particularly the Doctor) when his own genius is recognized. But throughout the story he hears and sees things that seem to strike a chord, and frequently complains of an endless sound of drums in his head, something that has plagued him his entire life. It's no surprise he seems so stressed given the enormous pressure on him (though to be fair, those in charge of the base seem friendly and helpful and never put any undue pressure on him), but at first he seems no more than a bright man who is struggling with the weight of his task and is fully prepared to sacrifice his own existence to ensure that of humanity. But as the Doctor and Jack work to undo the sabotage of the Futurekind, Yana reflects wistfully on his life and reveals the only heirloom of his mysterious origin - a fobwatch with some very familiar symbols on the back. Martha knows immediately what she is looking at, but in her enthusiasm she makes the mistake of making Yana himself aware that the fobwatch is something significant. In a perfect marriage of editing, music (Murray Gold deserves praise for this one) and timing, Yana stares at his watch as Martha tells a horrified Doctor what she has discovered. Why horrified? Because while Jack and Martha think it means another Time Lord survived, he knows it could only be one other person, because fate wouldn't be that kind to him. Yana opens his watch and dies just like John Smith did in The Family of Blood, and another Classic Who villain returns to the show in the most extraordinary fashion. Ever since Doctor Who came back, people wanted to know about the Daleks and the Cybermen of course, but the other inevitable villain people KNEW would return would be the Master. Introduced in the Pertwee era with the amazing Roger Delgado, the Master was a constant thorn in the Doctor's side all the way through to the last story of the 7th Doctor AND the television movie that introduced the 8th Doctor. While some thought that RTD somewhat overdid it, there was frequently something campy about the Master, he could slip between sneering evil and bemused snickering, and Roger Delgado's Master wasn't above kicking back and enjoying a kid's show or an ironically named book. Jacobi (who played the Master in Scream of the Shalka) is remarkable in the role, as Yana immediately disappears and what is left is a cold-humored man who IMMEDIATELY sets to taking advantage of his situation, and takes a horrible, savage glee out of being "provoked" into killing the loyal Chantho. The difference between the two is striking, there is NOTHING left of Yana. Even though he himself doesn't know he'll be responsible for it later, when he looks at the Utopia broadcast signal he feels no sense of hope (desperate or otherwise), simply a bemused contempt as he sneers,"Utopia  ". Simply by the way he walks, the set of his face, the tone of his voice, Jacobi might as well be an entirely different actor stepping in to replace himself halfway through the episode. It is astonishing how he discards the one role and inhabits the other - sure some may simply call that "acting", but even Tennant's distinctly different John Smith still bore some light similarities to the Doctor. Yana and the Master are entirely different, the only thing they share is a face.At the time of season 3's airing, I was spoiled on the fact that Jacobi would be playing a Time Lord. I was also spoiled that the Master would be returning (making the Saxon season arc less than intriguing). Happily, I also bought hook, line and sinker the claim that Jacobi's Time Lord would be the one that the Doctor didn't recognize, and so it wasn't until moments before the reveal that I realized,"Oh my God the Master's back.... THE MASTER'S BACK!" It's a drat shame that we had such a brief run with Jacobi, he gets barely a few minutes as the Master before being shot by Chantho and seeing the Doctor face to face for one brief moment before retreating into the TARDIS. In those few minutes though.. god drat! Perhaps it is a good thing, we never got a chance to see Jacobi's Master diluted or get tired of seeing him - for a few wonderful moments he seethed and mocked and accused and complained bitterly about his own bad fortune (while the universe came to an end around him!) and then he consciously made a choice to deliver what he felt was poetic "punishment" to the Doctor. Regenerating into a "young and strong" body, Derek Jacobi leaves and John Simm replaced him, and like Jacobi before him in his brief few minutes he would stamp his mark on the character. In the episodes to follow, Simm's Master would vacillate between extremes of sinister puppetmaster and campy jerk. Here though, he gets the mix perfectly right. Simultaneously mocking the Doctor and marveling at his new voice, he ignores everything the (desperate!) Doctor tries to say and explain in favor of his own monologue and exalting in his position of power (the way he says "Say my name" to the Doctor gives me chills) as he sets the plans he has already formed into motion. The Doctor is so desperate he even tries to fry his own TARDIS in order to stop him, but the Master is a step ahead of him, giving a laughing goodbye and dematerializing the TARDIS. In one of the more spectacular cliffhangers the show has done, the episode ends with Martha (who recognizes the Master's voice) and Jack desperately trying to keep the Futurekind out, Chantho dead on the floor, the Doctor staring in slackjawed horror at where his TARDIS was, and the Master having escaped triumphantly, leaving them all stranded at the end of the universe. It's exceptional, an episode that started so generic and unremarkable ends with the entire show flipped upside down and the Doctor unmistakably defeated. But for all the strengths and astonishing accomplishments of the episode, it's hardly perfect. The Futurekind are ridiculous. The execution of the concept of entropy and the last desperate hopes of humanity leaves a lot to be desired. Martha is once again reduced to "Not-Rose" or facilitating the more interesting actions of other characters - her realization of what Yana's fobwatch represents is great but it is in service of another character's moment - she has to stand around and listen to the Doctor and Jack sigh happily over their shared memories of Rose. The only truly interesting moment she gets is when she and Chantho have a giggle over getting the alien to "swear", and even that is surrounded by her wistfully sighing over how the Doctor isn't romantically interested in her. The worst is in the clunky and condescending use of flashback - there's the reminder of how the Doctor lost his arm, but what is worse is the moment when the Doctor realizes who the Master is. As Jacobi and Tennant act their socks off and the music rises to a crescendo and the editing fires the audience up.... suddenly we get a flashback to the Face of Boe, and get the significance of his final words hammered into our heads with YOU. ARE. NOT. ALONE! Basically, Utopia is a story that exists entirely as a delivery mechanism for the Master reveal and cliffhanger. That's not a bad thing because the scene it builds to is incredible, but it isn't a story that would stand up on its own merits WITHOUT that scene. All the effort clearly went into the Master's return, and while they pulled it off spectacularly, it does mean that the rest of the story tends to be forgotten or thought of more highly than it perhaps merits. Plenty of episodes would kill to have such a strong scene to exist around though, and for as long as the revival runs and for all the great classic stories that preceded it, I still think that Professor Yana staring at his fobwatch and then flicking it open as the music pounds and the Doctor panics and tries to deny the inevitable will remain one of the iconic moments of Doctor Who history for me. Absolutely spectacular.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 08:23
|
|
|
I was completely unspoiled for Utopia, and figured it would just be another "filler" episode before the two-part season finale. All the cool stuff would be saved for those episodes (back then, I didn't even know the names The Sound of Drums/The Last of the Time Lords), so I didn't even watch it live. I saved it on my TiVo and went out to the pub for the evening. I came back around 3 am, drunk off my rear end, and my then-roommate was waiting up for me, because he wanted to see my "live" reaction. I'm going "ok, ok, this is a decent episode hinging on 'boring,' I like the 'oh, she was blonde' line from Martha, Jack's back, ok...wait, fob watch? Time Lord? THE MASTER REBORN?!? 'USE MY NAME?!?'" And you have to give credit to Tennant for the way he just whisper the Master's name, along with a quiet apology...is he apologizing for not saying his name, or for everything that happened during the Time War? While I think Simm, overall, was the weakest Master thanks to the 'cannibalism/shoot lightning from your hands' writing at the end of his run, Jacobi was so on top of his game and superb for the brief period of time he "was" the Master. The switch from "scientist" to "insane Time Lord" happened so fast and with such purpose that, to this day, it still gives me chills. CobiWann fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Jul 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 14:23
|
|
|
I asked for this on Tumblr and someone delivered: Colin Baker is... Tacky
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 14:38
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:I asked for this on Tumblr and someone delivered: And that someone WAS MEEEEEEE! This was fun to do. I somehow managed to fit every Colin Baker serial in there. It's kind of amateur and stuff but it's worth a chuckle on a Sunday morning at least, I think.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 14:41
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:In the episodes to follow, Simm's Master would vacillate between extremes of sinister puppetmaster and campy jerk. Here though, he gets the mix perfectly right. Simultaneously mocking the Doctor and marveling at his new voice, he ignores everything the (desperate!) Doctor tries to say and explain in favor of his own monologue and exalting in his position of power (the way he says "Say my name" to the Doctor gives me chills) as he sets the plans he has already formed into motion. There's a lot of Tony Blair in the Mr Saxon character (though I believe he'd have just left office by the time this episode went out, I think it was certainly written with Blair in mind). I think it's worth keeping in mind that the more conventionally "sinister" aspect of the character only really comes through when it's just him and the Doctor one-on-one, but the "campy jerk" part comes out when he has an audience to put on a show for. I know a lot of people don't like it anyway, but I thought it generally worked out okay.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 14:41
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:While I think Simm, overall, was the weakest Master reminder that eric robert exists
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 15:00
|
|
|
I actually really like John Simm's portrayal the Master, as different as it is from anyone else's. He's such a perfect mirror of Tennant's Doctor, too-wacky facade overtop someone who is just completely lost and alone, and works (for me) for many of the same reasons that Tennant's Doctor does. He was really let down by the stories he was in, though. I thought The Sound Of Drums was fantastic, but Last Of The Time Lords, a few great moments aside, was a completely inexcusable mess, and while I love The End Of Time, I love it only in spite of its many, many flaws.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 16:28
|
|
|
I always liked to think that the reason why the stars burned out was because of the Daleks and their master plan. It gives us a far more hopeful look at the future than this does.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 16:29
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:
Yeah, I agree. The superpowered, Dragon Ball Master that Sim ended up portraying was confusing. I think the Year that Never Happened and Dobby Doctor was par for the course for the mediocre episodes of the RTD years in a lot of way, but the sting is particularly bad with how pregnant with potential that finale was after the Derek Jacobi Master reveal. He was such an amazing choice for Master, too. I really wish they'd let him stick around a little longer. There's not a lot anyone could have done with the Sims material, but at least we'd have been in awe of a Jacobi Master while we were rolling our eyes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 17:11
|
|
|
Metal Loaf posted:There's a lot of Tony Blair in the Mr Saxon character (though I believe he'd have just left office by the time this episode went out, I think it was certainly written with Blair in mind). Thinking about it, Simm Master's more overt moments do carry a lot of shades of 'UK politicians when they're trying to be personable'. I was blind to that during the episode's airing because I didn't care about politics enough to know what that looks like (and it's a style specific to the UK; Australian politicians act nothing like that in the same position, nor do Americans), but now that I do I can really see it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 17:46
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:Thinking about it, Simm Master's more overt moments do carry a lot of shades of 'UK politicians when they're trying to be personable'. I was blind to that during the episode's airing because I didn't care about politics enough to know what that looks like (and it's a style specific to the UK; Australian politicians act nothing like that in the same position, nor do Americans), but now that I do I can really see it. Some people have pointed out that talking about "Vote Saxon" doesn't make sense for the UK because you don't directly vote for the PM, but it makes sense given how personality cults have become a part of politics there- people didn't vote FOR Tony Blair but they knew that he would be Prime Minister if Labour won a majority, hence he was a factor in their success, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 17:51
|
|
|
Yeah while technically you vote for your local MP, most people vote in general elections with an eye for the national picture and who will become PM. So yes the vote Saxon thing is fine, especially when Saxon's party is basically a vehicle for him rather than a proper political party.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 18:00
|
|
|
Cerv posted:reminder that eric robert exists I am. "As well as."
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 18:26
|
|
|
In the throes of boredom recently, I started thinking about the internal timeline for RTD's run on the series. Rose leaves Earth with the Doctor in 2005, then he brings her home (in "Aliens of London") a year later than they left, in 2006. From this point on, we have to assume that the "present-day" epsidoes take place a year later than their broadcast date, which means that most of season three is technically set in 2008. When the Master introduces the President to the Toclafane, he introduces himself as "president-elect", which suggests this is taking place sometime between November 2008 and January 2009, and that this fellow was elected instead of Barack Obama (who I don't believe would have been an international figure when this episode was written and broadcast). Obama then appears as president in "The End of Time", which seems to be taking place in the "present-day" of late 2009, meaning that he must have been elected in 2008, even though Winters (the POTUS from "The Sound of Drums") was introduced as the president elected that year. The destruction of the Master's paradox machine erased the year-that-never-was, but it only seems to go back as far as the moment just after he zapped the president to atoms. So, this could mean that the paradox machine actually erased Winters completely, replaced him with Obama, and straightened everything out so it was more or less consistent with real life. Or maybe one of the Cracks in time got him like they got the Cyber-King. Or RTD just didn't check to clarify what "president-elect" meant. v  v
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 18:33
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:I asked for this on Tumblr and someone delivered: This should go in the OP.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 19:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 03:45 |
|
|
I just assumed that after the President was killed they held another election which Obama won (maybe he didn't get the nomination in this world). It just goes to show the issue with RTD's (well intentioned!) decision to allow events to have consequences. We're supposed to look at the earth of Doctor Who as being roughly analogous with our own, which means that things need to run roughly parallel with reality. From Aliens of London on, RTD had let the genie out of the bottle, and tries to have his cake and eat it too by making alien life an accepted fact and having different US Presidents and a new British Prime Minister BUT also make the world the same mundane reality as our own. The assassination of the President of the United States at the order of the Prime Minister of Britain would have a HUGE impact on international relations and cause a gigantic rift between the two countries (if not an outright declaration of war!) and yet everything just goes back to normal. Some people saw Moffat's cracks as a snub to RTD's time on Doctor Who. I disagree, I think it was a necessary clean-up to allow a realigning of the earth of Doctor Who and contemporary society.
|
|
#
?
Jul 20, 2014 23:03
|
|