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Neurion
Jun 3, 2013

The musical fruit
The more you eat
The more you hoot

Orcs and Ostriches posted:

Ogre Battle 64 takes place roughly the same time as LUCT. I can barely remember this game... but I think it involves Lodis trying to gain control of another country. King Tristan again sends some of his best to intervene, this time including the main character of Ogre Battle, as well as a handful of other characters from OB. I think they reveal that Tristan is interfering in these conflicts to slow down the growth and power of Lodis, because as soon as they're able to Lodis will try to exert their influence on the new Zenobian kingdom. Ogres pop up here, as well.

Knight of Lodis takes place a bit earlier than the others, and is technically non-canonical. I think it ties in nicely though, and doesn't feel out of place.

Lodis' true goal in OB64 was to resurrect Danika, demigoddess of Fertility. She was half-human, half-divine, and was seduced by one of the gods of darkness into eating fruit of the netherworld (much like Persephone in Greek mythology.) IIRC, Danika's body was split into four or five parts, and there was something about her being reincarnated. Generally, though, Lodis' ambitions revolve around gaining direct access to the divine and demonic and then.. we don't know what their game plan would've been after that, as they keep getting thwarted in these games.

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loquacius
Oct 21, 2008

Neurion posted:

Lodis' true goal in OB64 was to resurrect Danika, demigoddess of Fertility. She was half-human, half-divine, and was seduced by one of the gods of darkness into eating fruit of the netherworld (much like Persephone in Greek mythology.) IIRC, Danika's body was split into four or five parts, and there was something about her being reincarnated. Generally, though, Lodis' ambitions revolve around gaining direct access to the divine and demonic and then.. we don't know what their game plan would've been after that, as they keep getting thwarted in these games.

The Lodisian characters in OB64, it is worth noting, do not represent the interests of the Lodisian government. They're supposed to, but they don't.

My take on it:

The game takes place in Palatinus, which is an analogy for Rome, except Lodis is also an analogy for Rome, and everything is Rome I guess. Palatinus is a client state of Lodis -- some years before the game takes place, Lodis conquers the absolute poo poo out of Palatinus' neighbor, the kingdom of Nirdam, and enslaves all its people (also they're black; Japan on race relations, everyone). They offer to not do the same to Palatinus if the Palatinean royal family swears fealty; the king of Palatinus is basically the hugest pussy in history, so he takes the deal.

At the beginning of the game, a peasant uprising is stirred up by a popular intellectual (Sir Frederick Raskin); the main character starts out as an army officer with orders to shut it down, but switches sides when he realizes that absolute monarchy is actually a really lovely system and the country's nobility are a bunch of assholes. The uprising turns into a full-out revolutionary movement, and as it destabilizes the kingdom a Lodisian knightly order (the CALIGINOUS ORDER :black101:) comes into the picture. Their orders are to bring the kingdom back under Lodis' control, but they have their own goal, as well: they're semi-disgraced and on the skids at home in Lodis, so they're trying to discover a mythical and vaguely-defined Palatinean "ultimate power" which some oddly messianic prophecies have foretold is supposed to show up again any day now, use that to bring Palatinus under their direct control, and use that to beat up the Lodisian pope and seize the whole Empire. That ultimate power, surprise surprise, turns out to be the power of the netherworld. Thanks to one of the princes of Palatinus being the aforementioned messianic figure, the Palatinean royal family beats Lodis to the Ultimate Power and goes shitballs crazy. Ogres and demons start pouring out of portals like clowns from a Volkswagen, and soon enough it's a four-way conflict, revolutionaries vs royalists vs Lodis vs demons.

And yeah, the Zenobians fight on the side of the rebels because Tristan has a soft-spot for popular uprisings against totalitarian monarchs (guess why).

loquacius fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Apr 10, 2014

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
I should really sit down and finish that game some time. I've played it enough, but I always get derailed by some random thing around the 1/2 - 2/3 mark.

LUCT too... I'm in the final stages of two separate paths, but I just can't grab the willpower to push through the last few.

Maybe I'll have the summer of Ogre Battle and marathon all of them.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

While I've never been very good at Ogre Battle gameplay, I want more games in the series because the name is the best name ever.

Also I like how the Battle games by necessity are bigger and more impressive plot advances; Tactics makes a better story (though it is a mess) and I love the little unexplained but logical mechanics like how making Gargastani kill Gargastani makes them hate you (but I do so love recruit race-traitors) but the ramifications for the world at large aren't as impressive.

I would love a game that could somehow do both without being poo poo. Even Tactics Ogre implies there are big battles taking place outside of the ten vs X fights you hae with your squad, so if you had two narratives or game modes, one which followed the plot from a larger, Ogre Battle perspective and another which worked from a smaller, Tactics Ogre perspective but connected to make a complete narrative, that would be the best.


Neurion posted:

Lodis' true goal in OB64 was to resurrect Danika, demigoddess of Fertility. She was half-human, half-divine, and was seduced by one of the gods of darkness into eating fruit of the netherworld (much like Persephone in Greek mythology.) IIRC, Danika's body was split into four or five parts, and there was something about her being reincarnated. Generally, though, Lodis' ambitions revolve around gaining direct access to the divine and demonic and then.. we don't know what their game plan would've been after that, as they keep getting thwarted in these games.

Didn't Matsuno say in some document or other that the god of Lodis is actually made up, in contrast to the very real gods or demigods they keep digging up? They may be looking to secure actual divine/demonic power in order to prove the legitimacy of their own faith.

loquacius
Oct 21, 2008

Lotish posted:

Didn't Matsuno say in some document or other that the god of Lodis is actually made up, in contrast to the very real gods or demigods they keep digging up? They may be looking to secure actual divine/demonic power in order to prove the legitimacy of their own faith.

Lodisism is his stand-in for Christianity and he is a JRPG writer, so yup sounds about right.

e: Seriously the word "Lodis" is just the name of the religion's Jesus figure, although my source for that is OB64 which is questionably canon

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

loquacius posted:

Lodisism is his stand-in for Christianity and he is a JRPG writer, so yup sounds about right.

e: Seriously the word "Lodis" is just the name of the religion's Jesus figure, although my source for that is OB64 which is questionably canon

Your title makes this so much better.

Rockopolis
Dec 21, 2012

I MAKE FUN OF QUEER STORYGAMES BECAUSE I HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO WITH MY LIFE THAN MAKE OTHER PEOPLE CRY

I can't understand these kinds of games, and not getting it bugs me almost as much as me being weird

Lotish posted:

Didn't Matsuno say in some document or other that the god of Lodis is actually made up, in contrast to the very real gods or demigods they keep digging up? They may be looking to secure actual divine/demonic power in order to prove the legitimacy of their own faith.

That makes them sound like Carmen Sandiego.

Neurion
Jun 3, 2013

The musical fruit
The more you eat
The more you hoot

Lotish posted:

Didn't Matsuno say in some document or other that the god of Lodis is actually made up, in contrast to the very real gods or demigods they keep digging up? They may be looking to secure actual divine/demonic power in order to prove the legitimacy of their own faith.

I'm not entirely sure the god of Lodisim is made up. We do know that Ishtar is a Goddess of Virtue, and the Lodissian God (who's a sun god or also a god of Virtue) is named Filaha or something. IIRC the bulk of Valeria also worships the same god as the Lodissians. Whether or not he's made up remains to be seen, but I think KoL provides evidence that he's real in some capacity.

TurnipFritter
Apr 21, 2010
10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

Neurion posted:

I'm not entirely sure the god of Lodisim is made up. We do know that Ishtar is a Goddess of Virtue, and the Lodissian God (who's a sun god or also a god of Virtue) is named Filaha or something. IIRC the bulk of Valeria also worships the same god as the Lodissians. Whether or not he's made up remains to be seen, but I think KoL provides evidence that he's real in some capacity.

Filaha/Philaha is worshiped in Valeria (Tactics Ogre), the Roshian religion (Ogre Battle) and in Lodis.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012
Urodela





This battle's basically Plot Central, so let's get right into it.


but it's already dark.
It's really quiet... I don't hear a sound.

One might even say it's...too quiet.

I'll be here all update!





:ninja: We won't let you interfere!





So uh, hope you like ninjas as much as I do! The good news is, we'd outnumber these guys even without Cybil's help. The bad news is,



Besides Sitri being the only ninja in the game actually dressed for night-time stealthy things, dang that's a high level! And some nice gear, too.



Also of note is this lady right here. Besides having a name appropriate for her element, that accessory is really really nice and she doesn't drop it upon defeat. The solution?



Kamui's coming back for one last job, and this time, he's getting personal.


:ninja: treasure of the Batraal Family!

They must be looking for the same thing as we are. Sounds like they haven't found it yet, though.

:ninja: What are you mumbling? We know what you're after. We won't let you snatch it from us... You've always resorted to using force. You're responsible for the death of my family! Since then, I've lived with nothing but vengeance to sustain me.
Fool. Do you live only for revenge?

Uhh no he said vengeance, weren't you listening?



Anyway, this battle can be tricky if you let the ninjas screw around long enough for the witch to do her witchy thing. Your best bet is to just rush in. Sitri's the only one with an appreciable offense.



Pictured: Exhibit A for hawkmen being better archers.



Pictured: Exhibit A for how this battle could get ugly. Ninjas are way dodgier than most human classes, so there's a decent degree of luck involved here.



Thankfully the one thing ninjas can't do is fly. Probably. Starting behind that house is kind of awkward but at least our casters are protected.



The ninja frontliners move in, but here you can see how easy this battle can be. And that's a counterattack!



Sitri, like Cressida, believes vengeance is best served by running away from a fight he started.




Between Rabbi and Cybil's attacks, Geese finishes this poor dude off in the second turn.




And thanks to Deneb and Rabbi (again), his friend doesn't have too long. Oh, wait a minute...


Acquired buried Pike.

Nice! This isn't the Sacred Spear, but it'll do. While some loot like our dragon gear is predetermined, every map has a few scattered tiles with randomized treasure like this. As ever, you'll need a guide to reliable track them down.




Glycinia and Frocobo finish the ninja off.



Meanwhile, J. Totes and Kamui speed toward Special Target Sapphire, with Mercury ready to heal anyone.



And that's why! Granted that's a naked Kamui, but still.



Aw yeah now to follow up with Deneb and Gee-



Oh. Oh yeah. I want AoE magic. :(



Even without the spread, mages really shine here, straight up ignoring crazy ninja evasion.



I uh, may have been slightly exaggerating the difficulty maybe?

I mean yeah! Squash 'em! Man I'm so good at this game trust me guys ninjas will totally tear your poo poo up!!




That axe has to weigh more than she does.




Glycinia might be around more or less as filler but she's trying! (Book of Initiation, by the way. There are other emblems I promise!)



Off to the north, our own ninjas carry out Operation Friendz.

Man, the way these games handle persuasion is kinda creepy if you think about it too much.




Sitri's basically just digging his own grave here. Guest characters always put a bit of a time limit on Defeat Leader maps. Unless they're Ivanna.



Oh hey, almost forgot about you! So, witches. They're mages who specialize in status ailments. Sleep isn't too bad, though. Incidentally, this is the same spell Lethe chumped Mercury with back in Formido.




The main reason I brought Kamui was because I really wanted to get Sapphire and for non-ninjas, those already low odds would be in the single digits.



So of course, we get her in one try.



Just in time, though, since sustained magic has Sitri on death's door. But that hit chance could be just a bit better...




There we go! Well, that turned out pretty brief.



Oooor not. Okay.



Okay!!



:shepface:



That's the reason to beware witches. Charmed characters behave like they do in every game: like enemies. You're on thin ice there, buddy!



Guess I should probably heal that new friend I made such a big deal about! Haha that could've been disastrous!!



O-oh...

Let's just

let's just get this over with.




Go away.



Cressida's parents were killed, Sitri's wife was killed. Who handled their grief better? You decide!



I'd be more mad about the money if not for that rad sword.



If that healing failure didn't tip you off, the big reason I persuaded Sapphire was to get that necklace. If you kill her, good job! You just lost something way better than aforementioned rad sword. The Necklace of Resist nullifies all magic. Yeah sure that means no magical healing but it also means no everything else. You really really want this thing.

Anyway, go grab a sandwich or something. Things're about to get dramatic.


---



Last I heard, you disappeared at Formido... Are you alright?


Many soldiers were wounded by undead creatures in the Forest of Gryllus. Because of the confusion, we had no choice but to retreat.
The enemy's been saying that someone's after them. They must've been talking about you. Tell me, what exactly are you looking for, and what is your true mission?

"Oh hey bro glad you're still alive now WHAT ARE YOU HIDING HMM?"

I do not care what happened so long as you are safe. Come back and we'll talk.



Oooh poo poo, quick cue the dramatic music!



This woman saved my life in Formido. I am in her debt. Please forget about me. I have no intentions of returning.



Yeah dude, desertion's kind of a big deal!

You're a member of the Order of the Sacred Flame. Listen, Mercury. You're smart, and you have the potential to grow stronger. When I become the next Duke of Felis, I want you to be my right-hand man. I will govern and you will head up the country's defenses. If you want, I will make you the head of the knights. You're vital to the future of Lodis.
I appreciate your offer, but...my destiny lies elsewhere. I may not know exactly what my future holds, but I intend to find out.
You've been a true asset to us. I want to rule Felis, and with your help, bring stability to Lodis. I've been thinking about this for some time, but...did you plan on leaving all along?
That's not it, Rictor. I need to discover what I can accomplish on my own, without the help of my family, my status, or you.

Classic JRPG idealism meets political pragmatism. Of course, Merc's attitude is pretty easy to excuse when you remember he's only 15. What'd make this scene a whole lot better is if we'd actually seen something of Rictor and Mercury's relationship beyond the tutorial, though. This game's plot can feel a bit compressed at times, which is weird considering we've already had a couple filler missions that could have been better used. Uh anyway, back to the melodrama.

What did that woman say to you? Do you even know who she is? Let me ask you something, then. Why are you here? We came here in search of the White Fang Troops, but instead, at this late hour, we find you sneaking around with this spy of the Church.
That's because...


you're a member of the Hand of the Pope. What is the Church plotting? To restore power to the Pope?
Plotting? You make my work sound so ugly. My mission is to to do the Lord's will. What more can I do? The Hand of the Pope obeys the Pope and Filarhh without question. I've dedicated my life to them.

This came up in discussion earlier, but Filarhh (sic) and the elemental goddess of light/virtue, Ishtar, are two different beings. Lodis is too cool for all those mainstream gods. It's also becoming clear Lodis has quite a bit of internal turmoil, what with the pope of a religious empire being so disparaged. I guess Rictor and Cybil really aren't on the same side.

Then, why don't you pursue your goals openly? God sees all, including your dubious ways...
Hmph! And what about you? If your mission was to halt the White Fang Troops, then why are you here?


Your miserable life was saved by the mercy of Lodis. How dare you vulgar people talk to me like that!!!

I think Rictor's a little more upset about our leaving than he first let on.

I'm sorry, but there's no point in talk to you now. There's no getting through that thick skull of yours.
You infuriate me!!! Mercury, I suppose you're on their side, too?
What are you saying? Didn't you hear what I said? I am here of my own will. Please understand, Rictor...
Your own will...? Hmph. You must be dreaming. You let the current be your guide, only you convince yourself it's the path you've chosen. Even meeting this woman was just coincidence. This is your last chance to rejoin us.


Hmph! It was wrong of me to have such high expectations of you. Alright. That's it. I can't stand people who try to manipulate history from the shadows. If you want to go with her, go ahead. But if you try to get in my way, don't expect any mercy.



Rictor very pointedly walks past Mercury instead of leaving the way he came. That probably could have gone better.

---

on the western sea. After we find a boat, we'll head down to the Rana Sea and find the mermaids' sanctuary. I heard the leader's lived for over 400 years. She must know something about the Sacred Spear. Are you listening?

Good question! We're only about halfway through this cutscene by the way, so buckle down. It's almost like the game's trying to say "Hey this is important!"

I am... But, there is no way you can sail in this rain.

Merc knows a thing or two about sailing in storms around mermaids. And almost drowning.

Are you still concerned by what he said? Then start taking responsibility for your actions. That's why you're always treated like a child. Listen, you can't have freedom without bearing the responsibility. People have the right to choose their actions freely, but they are responsible for the results of those actions.



Chaos? Frames?

Understand? You declined his offer. There's a possibility that he'll become your enemy, but you have to face reality and accept that fact.
I don't want to...no, I can't...fight with Rictor.
Then, why did you refuse him? You could have gone with him.
I had no choice...

Merc's thought through all this about as well as fifteen year-olds can.

"I had no choice," you say! You're so naive!
You don't understand!
Of course not. I'm not a mind reader. But I do know you made it clear that you won't be going back. You have no place to return to anymore.
I don't know what to do...but I had to speak truthfully.
We can't relive the past, but we can start anew. Time waits for no man. The past has led you to the present, but you build your own future with choices today. Throughout your life, you will face many difficult decisions. There's no right or wrong...just paths that lead to different futures. That's all the advice I can give you.

...Cybil, why did you become a member of the Hand of the Pope?
No reason, really. I was a war orphan sent to Galius at six and educated to become a member. Now, I've dedicated my life to serving the Church.



There's something a little ironic about how the people lecturing Mercury over choice and freedom both had their lives largely decided for them.

Yes. Regardless of what I hoped for, I had to make choices from the options available to me in my environment. I am here right now as a result of those choices. Listen... Your birth, your status...these things are part of your environment, they're what you've been given. People strive for the things they want and give up on the things they don't want. Choosing not to decide is still a choice.


So, are you able to take us to the Rana Sea?


Besides, it's the stormy season now. Even if you bypass these hazards, you'd still have to navigate around the sunken rocks in Rana. I'm sorry, but we can't help you.
What if we wait until the ocean calms down...?
You said you're looking for the mermaids' sanctuary? Listen, don't be foolish. Don't take the sea...or the mermaids...lightly. They're monsters. They tempt men with their beauty and their singing, and then drag them into the sea... We had such an incident last summer. We have rules for our safety, but you outsiders think you can solve everything with your money and your logic.

And your wings and your magic and

...Let it go, Cybil. They're just thinking of their own safety.
Alright. Thanks for your cooperation.
If you want to meet the mermaids that badly, then capture one. She'll call for help and others will come. Then follow them to the sanctuary. I must be on my way. Please don't hold a grudge against me.

I don't think I like you very much! You make a guy a special portrait and the rear end in a top hat never even shows up again!


What do you mean?
Weren't you listening? If we capture a mermaid and wound her, she'll call for help. Then we'll follow them to the leader.
Hold on...I'm not so sure about this. The mermaids have nothing to do with your treasure hunting. How can we use them like that?
Then tell me, Mercury, what should we do? The sea is endless. We are powerless to it. We need a practical solution, and that's the best idea we've got. Save your sympathy, unless you can thnk of another way. Otherwise, follow my orders.



OH you're actually asking me? Uhhhh just

just gimme a minute


---
A quick note: this choice is incredibly important! Like yeah there are five endings to this game, but this one choice is the main determining factor for those endings and the path we'll take to them. Despite my jokes, KoL doesn't really have the infamous Chaos Frame so a simple multiple choice question is all we have to work with. This is what all the clumsy rhetoric we've seen lately is leading toward. So, dearest goons, please choose: A, or B?

And don't worry, we'll see the other path! Just not for a while, and perhaps not with Mercury.

Neurion
Jun 3, 2013

The musical fruit
The more you eat
The more you hoot

You wanted to see where the future would take you, Mercury, and you clearly didn't think things through, so might as well admit it. A.

Bregor
May 31, 2013

People are idiots, Leslie.
I'm beginning to think teenage protagonists aren't all they're cracked up to be! :v:

Since it seems more Mercury I'll go with option B.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Bregor posted:

I'm beginning to think teenage protagonists aren't all they're cracked up to be! :v:

Since it seems more Mercury I'll go with option B.

Rick and Morty has taught me that teenage motivations are mostly some combination of confused, terrified, horny, and stupid.

In the spirit of that wise lad

B. I don't know about this, grandpa Rick.

TARDISman
Oct 28, 2011



Let's go with option A right now. I'd rather not piss off the one person on the island who's still moderately friendly to us apart from Ivanna.

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011


A

I wanna see if we actually go through with it.

Crepuscule Adepte
Feb 21, 2008

Why is my hair purple? It's from the blood of everyone that lost a bet against me.
So wait, we're trying to get friendly enough with the mermaids to get what's presumably a treasure from them... By kidnapping them? I don't think you thought this through very well.

Which is to say, B.

Tallgeese
May 11, 2008

MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR


Lotish posted:

Didn't Matsuno say in some document or other that the god of Lodis is actually made up, in contrast to the very real gods or demigods they keep digging up? They may be looking to secure actual divine/demonic power in order to prove the legitimacy of their own faith.

I'll explain this one.

Matsuno has a hate-boner for monotheism in general. His stories all retread the same idea, that monotheism is wrong and dangerous compared to polytheism/general vague divinity worship.

The thing that distinguishes Lodis is that they say Filaha, sun god and leader of the gods (his daughters are the four elemental goddesses who talk to you in the beginning of Tactics Ogre, he is the father they're referring to), is the only god. Filaha is a legitimate god, it's just that being a monotheist chafes Mastuno's underpants so he makes it a no-no.

He does the exact same thing in Final Fantasy 12 and Tactics. The Light of Kiltia is a perfectly benevolent polytheistic religion, until that bastard monotheist St. Ajora comes along. It's the exact same thing: Ajora says that Faram, leader of the gods and god of light, is the only god, and this is just very bad because it's monotheism.

No seriously, that's the long and the short of it.

Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Apr 15, 2014

Carbolic Smokeball
Nov 2, 2011
Having the foreknowledge of this game, I'm gonna say Path A. Despite it being the path I usually play(I've only done B once) IMO it's the better one, and then I hope you can go for the A+ Ending

I love the Urodela mission, because I feel it's where the game really gets going for me. Not only does it give you the path choice afterwards, the Matsukaze gives such a ridiculous offense bonus it gives (usually Mercury/Alphonse) the power to really set them apart from the regular recruits

Arcade Rabbit
Nov 11, 2013

Whatever option leads us towards the ending where we are an evil tyranical overlord/Dark Knight in service to said Overlord/Whatever bad guy ending this game has.

Edit: In hindsight, that's probably A :downs:

Arcade Rabbit fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Apr 15, 2014

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
Option B since Cybil is kind of a bitch.

loquacius
Oct 21, 2008

Option B. We just asserted the hell out of our independence to a different character in the previous scene, no way we're gonna let that roll end now :colbert:

Grimpond
Dec 24, 2013

We may have ruined our relationship with Rictor, but that doesn't mean we should throw away our ideals, right??? Option B

Keeshhound
Jan 14, 2010

Mad Duck Swagger

quote:

Choosing not to decide is still a choice.

Excuse me, I was under the impression that this would be a Queen-only game. Get your filthy Canadian music out of here. :colbert:

That said, Cybil just got done telling Mercury that he needed to start thinking for himself, so it seems a little inappropriate to just start following her lead on everything again immediately afterwards. B

blackmongoose
Mar 31, 2011

DARK INFERNO ROOK!

Keeshhound posted:

Excuse me, I was under the impression that this would be a Queen-only game. Get your filthy Canadian music out of here. :colbert:

That said, Cybil just got done telling Mercury that he needed to start thinking for himself, so it seems a little inappropriate to just start following her lead on everything again immediately afterwards. B

A lot of their songs are probably more appropriate to the Ogre Battle universe thematically to be honest. Should have named Mercury Tom Sawyer instead...

Shitenshi
Mar 12, 2013
Choice B

Rictor is the rival best friend archetype so he's clearly up to something, if only because he waved away the accusation by saying he wants his butt buddy to be his right hand bottom bitch later on, but the game doesn't do a good job of making Rictor seem like anything but a commander who has his poo poo straight if a bit condescending, and Cybil is shady as gently caress.

Aesclepia
Dec 5, 2013
Next verse same as the first.
Option A! And not just because that's what I chose!

Especially if we get to see B later. :D

OtherworldlyInvader
Feb 10, 2005

The X-COM project did not deliver the universe's ultimate cup of coffee. You have failed to save the Earth.


Option A because nobody likes the guy who just shoots down every idea without having any of their own. :colbert:

and for the canon ending :black101:

OtherworldlyInvader fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Apr 16, 2014

Shinji117
Jul 14, 2013
Option B, because A and A+ fit a "and how it actually goes" thread ending.

Balk
Oct 15, 2011
Let's go with Plan B.

zfleeman
Mar 12, 2014

I wonder how you spell Tabasco.
I say option B. Our dude quit following Rictor because of his ideals, so he should stick with his gut. Be a man, kid.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.

Clapping Larry
I'm all for option B. Casual violence doesn't seem like a very good way to get anyone's cooperation.

Even though that's exactly how you get new recruits.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

Uuuuuuuh... B!

While Cybil is really shady, I always felt the confrontation between Rictor and Merc here was a little...extreme. Rictor comes across as unreasonably offended and Merc does a pretty bad job of making his case. It makes everyone look bad.

CatsPajamas
Jul 4, 2013

I hated the new Stupid Newbie avatar so much that I bought a new one for this user. Congrats, Lowtax.
Option B! I agree with the point that Shinji117 made.


Lotish posted:

Uuuuuuuh... B!

While Cybil is really shady, I always felt the confrontation between Rictor and Merc here was a little...extreme. Rictor comes across as unreasonably offended and Merc does a pretty bad job of making his case. It makes everyone look bad.

Tallgeese wrote a good point regarding how Matsuno uses the stories he writes to enforce his viewpoint, which unfortunately can become a detriment when its more about the viewpoint than the story. Hope it's not spoilers, but we'll see similarly unreasonable behavior behavior in the future.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

CatsPajamas posted:

Tallgeese wrote a good point regarding how Matsuno uses the stories he writes to enforce his viewpoint, which unfortunately can become a detriment when its more about the viewpoint than the story. Hope it's not spoilers, but we'll see similarly unreasonable behavior behavior in the future.

I'm sure that may be a problem with this game, but I thought Matsuno actually didn't have anything to do this one?

Man we haven't seen a proper, new installment in this series since 2001? I had hoped that the LUCT PSP would be a sign of more games in the franchise, but it's been 3 years and nothing. Hopefully Square Enix's new statements about returning to core JRPG development and making new SaGa and Mana games means we'll see something before my kids get into college.

TurnipFritter
Apr 21, 2010
10,000 POSTS ON TALKING TIME

Lotish posted:

I'm sure that may be a problem with this game, but I thought Matsuno actually didn't have anything to do this one?

Man we haven't seen a proper, new installment in this series since 2001? I had hoped that the LUCT PSP would be a sign of more games in the franchise, but it's been 3 years and nothing. Hopefully Square Enix's new statements about returning to core JRPG development and making new SaGa and Mana games means we'll see something before my kids get into college.

Matsuno was not involved with Knights of Lodis. He only worked on March of the Black Queen and Let Us Cling Together.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012
Route B's got a rock solid 2-1 lead right now, but I'm gonna go ahead and leave it open over the weekend mostly because I'll be kinda busy anyway.

TurnipFritter posted:

Matsuno was not involved with Knights of Lodis. He only worked on March of the Black Queen and Let Us Cling Together.

Coincidentally, the two games he didn't work on both have blue-haired protagonists. :tinfoil:

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

Looper posted:

Route B's got a rock solid 2-1 lead right now, but I'm gonna go ahead and leave it open over the weekend mostly because I'll be kinda busy anyway.


Coincidentally, the two games he didn't work on both have blue-haired protagonists. :tinfoil:

Maybe they were trying to get some of that Fire Emblem feeling?

Tallgeese
May 11, 2008

MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR


Indeed, Matsuno was not involved in Ogre Battle 64 and this game. He's kind of sort of struck Ogre Battle 64 at least from canon.

The thing I talk about is still very much present in LUCT, though. Which makes sense, it's sort of an FFT prototype.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012
Maybe I was being a bit optimistic. :v: But at any rate, Route B it is!

Full disclosure: it's been a longass time since I've played the B path! It was my pick the first time through this game (as I imagine it was for many people), but every subsequent run has been on the A path for shall we say various reasons. This doesn't mean too much for you guys, I'll just be paying a lot more attention to cutscenes.

It's funny, the B choice is presented as the obviously nice/good one (see: not killing up Balmamusa), since going after innocent mermaids probably isn't the coolest thing for a hero to do, but it's also the youthful choice. It's a choice between practicality and idealism, necessity and kindness, obedience and independence, "We have a plan!" and "lol I dunno," and yeah sure maybe law and chaos I guess. In another game, the big choice probably would've been whether to rejoin Rictor or stick with Cybil, but KoL instead leaves us with something much more innocuous, and honestly, I appreciate that. Mercury stays with Cybil because he feels obligated, that's part of his character, so instead we get what is arguably a more personal decision: stick with our burgeoning principles or, perhaps, understand that there's a time and a place for existential crises. Maybe that time and place is some run-down old fishing shack up in Hicksville, Ovis after we've abandoned our country, our status, and our best friend and made it quite clear we're willing to put aside our personal interests to aid someone, and maybe it isn't. You'll just have to wait and see!

Anyway, expect an update if not tomorrow, then at least by the end of the week. I apologize for the delay!

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zfleeman
Mar 12, 2014

I wonder how you spell Tabasco.

Looper posted:

some run-down old fishing shack up in Hicksville, Ovis

That made my night.

Also, if you really want to show us the "A" path, then go right ahead. I voted for B, but if you know what would make this LP great, you should do that. I'm sure people would understand.

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