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MagusofStars posted:Yeah, the Orc changes are pretty intriguing. Frankly, I have no idea why vanilla Orcs even existed since they had literally no distinguishing features. Well, they were an 'advanced' 'race of darkness', as it were. The objective in the mod was to keep them as an advanced and sophisticated culture, just one whose brutal militarism chokes out the gentler arts and commerce.
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Mar 4, 2014 03:06
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MagusofStars posted:Glad to see this get off the ground. And you got one of my favorite early heroes too - Once you get a couple levels and a decent bow, Archer Heroes can obliterate a lot of battles untouched. MoM orcs exist as the nominal "average and dull humans" race, except not actually human, of course. Every 4x has to have a race that leaves a bland taste on the tongue with their capacity to do most things adequately, and such a race tends to hold the form of the bipedal, hairless simians you're liable to observe in the mirror; MoM just shakes it up a bit by giving these creatures larger teeth and piggish noses, in addition to a minutely different culture. To put it more succinctly, their lack of distinguishing features is their distinguishing feature. Who needs worg knights and other such things when you can play attenuated Mongoloids with access to the excitement of effective banking systems?
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Mar 4, 2014 04:36
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DentedLamp posted:MoM orcs exist as the nominal "average and dull humans" race, except not actually human, of course. Every 4x has to have a race that leaves a bland taste on the tongue with their capacity to do most things adequately, and such a race tends to hold the form of the bipedal, hairless simians you're liable to observe in the mirror; MoM just shakes it up a bit by giving these creatures larger teeth and piggish noses, in addition to a minutely different culture. Thing is, there are ALSO High Men who are nigh-identical. And both High Men and Orcs have the distinction of being 'highly sophisticated' in baseline, with access to the full array of improvements for their cities. Given the strange similarity of High Men and Orcs, we just chose to make Orcs a little more different from High Men.
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Mar 4, 2014 04:48
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nweismuller posted:Thing is, there are ALSO High Men who are nigh-identical. And both High Men and Orcs have the distinction of being 'highly sophisticated' in baseline, with access to the full array of improvements for their cities. Given the strange similarity of High Men and Orcs, we just chose to make Orcs a little more different from High Men. As I recall, high men lack access to the Fantastic Stables structure, no? Orcs have the unique capacity to make all the buildings, in contrast (at least, from what I remember of vanilla).
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Mar 4, 2014 04:56
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DentedLamp posted:As I recall, high men lack access to the Fantastic Stables structure, no? Orcs have the unique capacity to make all the buildings, in contrast (at least, from what I remember of vanilla). Yeah, but Fantastic Stables only serve to permit certain unique racial units with exotic monsters. Essentially the only difference between Orcs and High Men in vanilla is some slight changes in what units are available. Yawn.
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Mar 4, 2014 05:01
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You lucky son of a... your amazing luck for heroes continues. Shuri is the best starting hero you can get because she comes with Blademaster, Pathfinding and a random Fighter Skill. Charmed isn't the best, but she has massively increased the Dwarves exploration skills, and doubled the army move speed for those in the same stack as her just because of Pathfinding. The size 2 city to the north is just icing on the cake. Edit: VV Pathfinding lets you expand even more rapidly, moving slow units across the land twice as fast before roads start getting built. 10 more turns with a new city is very important, as is exploring and finding easy nodes etc. and being able to harness them. Krumbsthumbs fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Mar 4, 2014 |
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Mar 4, 2014 05:06
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Krumbsthumbs posted:You lucky son of a... your amazing luck for heroes continues. Shuri is the best starting hero you can get because she comes with Blademaster, Pathfinding and a random Fighter Skill. Charmed isn't the best, but she has massively increased the Dwarves exploration skills, and doubled the army move speed for those in the same stack as her just because of Pathfinding. The Dervish and his +10 $/turn Nobility are in disagreement with that assertion.
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Mar 4, 2014 05:08
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The sage's early research bonus can be pretty helpful too, and adds up to quite a bit over the course of a game, while also providing all the advantages of a spellcasting hero in the late game. He's probably my favorite, although with a Myrran start I can see why a more combat-ready hero might be the better option.
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Mar 4, 2014 05:22
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If I play on Myrror with life magic, I beeline a certain spell as soon as possible (right now it would take nweismuller 100 turns to research), cast it and leisurely expand in my unreachable homeland. That would make this LP quite boring though. And I agree that Shuri is one of the best starting heroes, especially for such a slow race as the dwarfs.
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Mar 4, 2014 09:13
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Can we 'restore' the connection of that small dwarf town with our present city? They are dwarves, we are dwarves. Clearly we should be dwarves under one throne.
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Mar 4, 2014 09:34
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DentedLamp posted:As I recall, high men lack access to the Fantastic Stables structure, no? Orcs have the unique capacity to make all the buildings, in contrast (at least, from what I remember of vanilla). High men already possess two of the very best units in the game, so not having some fantasy critters isn't much of a stop for them.
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Mar 4, 2014 15:24
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Mzbundifund posted:The sage's early research bonus can be pretty helpful too, and adds up to quite a bit over the course of a game, while also providing all the advantages of a spellcasting hero in the late game. He's probably my favorite, although with a Myrran start I can see why a more combat-ready hero might be the better option. My personal favourite is the healer for the early game - even if you have Life magic, extra healing is incredibly useful, and if you don't have Life then it can really save your bacon. Then later on she can boost your spellcasting.
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Mar 4, 2014 22:36
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Sloober pretty much has the right of it (at least from my perspective) - high men aren't really missing out on much by not having the Fantastic Stable, as the building itself does absolutely nothing short of reducing your gold income by 6, and Paladins have very legitimate arguments for being the best normal unit in the game (and better than a fairly sizable percentage of fantastic units too, at that). (edit: added spoiler tags) Reiska fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 00:18
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Everyone remember the spoiler policy, right? Because I've heard rumors of these "high men" and their holy knights who leave terror in their wake. For whom unholy flame is but a nuisance in their massive, unstoppable charges.
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Mar 5, 2014 05:28
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The Battle of Stonegate As the year 1401 began, Queen Dagmaer spent much of the royal treasury on strange plants and minerals, converting a portion of the Royal Palace to a workshop to refine fluids which she used to bathe small crystals of glass, infusing them with an inner light so that they might serve as a store of magic to speed her work. This is the Magic screen of Master of Magic. Here, you can see what is being research and cast at a glance, see your 'casting skill' (which is the amount of mana you can spend on spellcasting per turn), control your allocation of power between generating mana, increasing skill, and conducting research, conduct diplomacy with other wizards, and use alchemy to create gold with magic or spend gold to store more mana. Either creating gold or storing mana has a 50% conversion efficiency; 2 gold or mana becomes 1 of the other resource.    With this preparation completed, she used her powers to watch over the advance of her northern company of swordsdwarves on the town of Stonegate. King Flosi Jonsson of Stonegate had hastily raised a company of swordsdwarves of his own, and the two companies clashed in bloody battle on the red, iron-rich sands outside of Stonegate. Battles in Master of Magic take place on a tactical map where each unit maneuvers individually. When units clash in melee, both attacker and defender launch attacks on each other. As figures making up a unit lose all their Hits, the unit shrinks, and weakens in battle with fewer figures to launch attacks.  As the clash continued, the forces of Goldwash at the battle experienced a wonder. Fourteen of the dwarves of the force, lying crippled or dying on the field, felt their strength return, their wounds knit, and their pain flee, permitting them to rejoin the battle and decisively tipping the balance. Queen Dagmaer, calling upon the power of the Serene Mother, had returned their bodies to balance and health. With the fighting force of Goldwash reinvigorated, the defenders of Stonegate were swiftly defeated, King Flosi lying amidst the slain of the battle. I failed to get a shot of my actually casting the spell in battle- an error of mine.   With King Flosi slain and the forces of Goldwash in possession of the town, the invaders seized the royal treasury of Stonegate before gathering the folk of Stonegate to tell of the wonders promised by Queen Dagmaer. Assured that Queen Dagmaer had no wish to oppress Stonegate, and promised the aid of their wealthier cousins to the south, the folk of Stonegate agreed in moot to accept Dagmaer Flodmarsdottir as their Queen. Queen Dagmaer promptly began sponsoring some of the folk of Stonegate to learn from the masons and builders of Goldwash, preparing to better secure the food supplies of Stonegate, which up until then had been barely clinging to survival on what little farmland it had amidst the searing desert. When you capture a new town, you have the option to raze it, but we do not do such a crime. As we capture Stonegate, it becomes clear that it currently has zero population growth, and a current theoretical maximum population of 5. Improving its food security will help both of these issues.   The scouts of Goldwash continued their work, finding that the vibrant forest to the far south is crawling with perilous monsters. A month later, in Secondmonth, Vigny Rolfsdottir and her hunters discovered a strange shimmering lake along the coast to the northeast of Goldwash, with a giant's house built upon the shores. Queen Dagmaer, consulting her lore, came to the conclusion that these two locations were places where magic naturally entered Myrror and pooled in it. She concluded that it should be possible to bind these points to her will with the proper preparation, drawing upon their power, but it would require sending a construct of magical power to the point and permitting the construct undisturbed time to transform itself into a binding-spell for the power entering the world there. Without dealing with the creatures defending those points, turning them to useful purpose would remain impossible. Nodes are a major, naturally-occurring power source for wizards. Think of them as something like the oil fields of the magical world. They can be exploited by melding a Magic Spirit or Guardian Spirit with them, once their defenders are cleared.  By Fifthmonth, the growth of Goldwash as families bore children and people filtered in from the outlying farms and timber camps of the settled region round about the town had become obvious, passing 5,000 people in or immediately around the town. Goldwash prospered, and its folk continued strong in their support of their Queen. Your Chancellor reports on the growth of towns when they gain a population unit. At default tax rates, a town reaching size 5 would gain a rebel due to unrest, which would need to be pacified by either two garrison units to suppress lawlessness and banditry by force, by religious structures to offer spiritual comfort and alms that calm the troubles of the people, or by some other, more unusual, means. Our tax rate, however, has not been at the default level ever since the game began. Our low taxes mean we only will begin to gain unrest when towns reach size 10. The dwarven kingdom of Goldwash has traditions of freedom for its people and a light hand by the crown, and the tax rate will continue to remain low throughout the game.  By Seventhmonth, the builders and masons taken from Stonegate were able to return to their town, and begin a program of irrigation and building of mills and granaries to help enrich what farmland Stonegate had. Builders' Halls also permit the construction of Miners' Guilds, but Miners' Guilds require that a city have at least one hill or mountain in its exploitable radius.  A month later, Goldwash had seen a further growth in the prosperity of its own agriculture, with manuring for the fields provided by waste carted out from the town and a growing network of slaughterhouse, smokehouses, breweries, and marketplaces where farmers coming in from the outlying district could hawk their produce. More farmers began to trickle into the town seeking opportunity, as some of the most prosperous farms began to consolidate their position around the town. The benefits of a Farmers' Market are cumulative with those already provided by a Granary. As Vigny charted the last stretches of the land north and south, Queen Dagmaer raised another company of swordsdwarves to defend the town of Goldwash, joining the company that had returned from its scouting to the south, while Stonegate, defended by the company of swordsdwarves that had scouted to the north, now reinforced to full strength by fresh recruits from Stonegate, completed its program of agricultural improvements in Eleventhmonth. The year 1401 was beginning to draw to a close. The Kingdom in Twelfthmonth 1401  Goldwash is growing swiftly, well-fed by its well-ordered farmland and the rich hunting of its forests. The folk of Goldwash are optimistic and prosperous, and the town provides the gold and food to support the royal coffers and the volunteers defending the kingdom. Now that Goldwash is size 5, it is called a 'Village' rather than a 'Hamlet'. The Farmers' Market replaces the Granary in the town display, although both still offer their benefits. Many structures will change to display the most advanced version of their line of development in a town.  Stonegate suffers a harsh existence clinging to the coast of the Red Desert, but it has begun to slowly grow as its farmlands have grown more well-ordered and well-developed. It takes a relatively few farmers to feed the 2000 burghers and artisans of Stonegate. The town is a net expense for the kingdom, but the Queen is pleased to make the investment to help improve the lives of the folk of Stonegate that they may eventually become solid contributors to the prosperity of the realm. Each town must supply the food to feed its own citizens, although the surplus to feed military units may be drawn from any town. With the 2 food from the granary, Stonegate can feed itself with no population units set to farm at all. The blank outline of a coin shows that we spend 1 gold more than we collect in revenues from the town.    The land has been well-charted, from the Red Desert in the north to Snowy Point in the far southeast. Vigny Rolfsdottir and her hunters have been dispatched to chart the last stretches of coastline in the north. The royal treasury stands at 4,600 silver marks. As 1401 draws to a close, Queen Dagmaer has called for a feast day and moot in the palace and the market squares outside, wishing to hear the will of her people now that the agriculture of Goldwash has been improved so and the defenses of the town put in place. Much could be still be done in Goldwash, whether to bolster the military might of the realm, to improve the mines about the town and provide more tools for building in the town, to further develop the timbering industry of the town, to set a project to hire scribes and copyists to borrow and copy the books about town and create a library and copyhouse open to the public, or even projects to build holy shrines in honor of the gods or settle new territories. Whatsoever arguments are raised at the moot, the Queen promises she shall take into account as she weighs the future in her mind. nweismuller fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 05:59
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Life magic specialization while still restricting yourself to low-taxes? Geez, way to make the rest of us look downright fascist.
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Mar 5, 2014 06:11
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Mzbundifund posted:Life magic specialization while still restricting yourself to low-taxes? Geez, way to make the rest of us look downright fascist. It's not my fault if my benevolent policies throw the behavior of others into sharp relief.
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Mar 5, 2014 06:14
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Mzbundifund posted:Life magic specialization while still restricting yourself to low-taxes? Geez, way to make the rest of us look downright fascist. I believe the OP is using the starting taxes, but has two units in the main town keeping one level of unrest from occurring. (Edit: Hey, this is wrong!) Hmm... I wonder where all your mana crystals are going. You have a healthy growth but always have 0 at the end of a round. Krumbsthumbs fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Mar 5, 2014 |
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Mar 5, 2014 06:14
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Krumbsthumbs posted:I believe the OP is using the starting taxes, but has two units in the main town keeping one level of unrest from occurring. I explicitly stated I dropped my taxes below default at the beginning of the game in the last update. nweismuller posted:Your Chancellor reports on the growth of towns when they gain a population unit. At default tax rates, a town reaching size 5 would gain a rebel due to unrest, which would need to be pacified by either two garrison units to suppress lawlessness and banditry by force, by religious structures offering spiritual comfort and alms that calm the troubles of the people, or by some other, more unusual, means. Our tax rate, however, has not been on the default level ever since the game began. Our low taxes mean we only will begin to gain unrest when towns reach size 10.
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Mar 5, 2014 06:15
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nweismuller posted:I explicitly stated I dropped my taxes below default at the beginning of the game in the last update. I keep forgetting Dwarves are made of bullshit in how much money they make off of Gold and Silver.
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Mar 5, 2014 06:18
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nweismuller posted:It's not my fault if my benevolent policies throw the behavior of others into sharp relief. Yeah well you don't appreciate how much of a BOTHER it is transmuting all that limitless wealth into mana every turn. Stupid 999 per transmuatation cap. Oh the trials of being the king.
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Mar 5, 2014 06:28
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Krumbsthumbs posted:I keep forgetting Dwarves are made of bullshit in how much money they make off of Gold and Silver. All I'm hearing here is jealousy at the skills of our noble Dwarven race. You wouldn't happen to be a human would you? Or, gasp, an Orc?
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Mar 5, 2014 07:01
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If I'm not mistaken, MoM dwarves also have a fairly sizable bonus to trade income as well, not just gold/silver bonuses. 
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Mar 5, 2014 07:32
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I humbly reiterate my desire to organize a Miner's Guild, that we may become even more wealthy.
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Mar 5, 2014 07:59
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I accidentally uploaded the wrong images charting the north and south reaches of the land in the 1401 update. The problem has been corrected.
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Mar 5, 2014 08:04
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So is starting on a sort of largeish island like this normal in Master of Magic? Seems odd as generally in this sort of game the map generation tends towards forming connected bodies rather than seperate ones.
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Mar 5, 2014 08:09
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Neruz posted:So is starting on a sort of largeish island like this normal in Master of Magic? Seems odd as generally in this sort of game the map generation tends towards forming connected bodies rather than seperate ones. This is a somewhat small landmass for MoM, but not really all that far from the norm. I have definitely seen far smaller islands.
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Mar 5, 2014 08:20
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My Queen, I believe it would benefit the kingdom if a more permanent connection is established between Goldwash and Stonegate. Perhaps we should look into getting folks who can build roads? I realize this project may be years away, but it is always good to be prepared.
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Mar 5, 2014 08:28
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nweismuller posted:Well, they were an 'advanced' 'race of darkness', as it were. The objective in the mod was to keep them as an advanced and sophisticated culture, just one whose brutal militarism chokes out the gentler arts and commerce. Ooh, did you link this 1.31 patch in your OP? I might have to go out hunting for it, I've not played MoM in years and playing it with a fresh lick of paint (...That actually makes orcs interesting!) Sounds brilliant. One of my favourite games, let alone 4X, of all time. I'd love a true, modern remake of it instead of another Civ. Age of Wonders games are probably as close as we'll get though, it's just not quite the same.
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Mar 5, 2014 09:26
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Regarding the 'High' Races In the days of the Confederation of Wizards, there were three races who dominated the Confederation, from whom most of the wizards of the Confederation arose. Some Men, some Elves, and the Orcs. Both Men and Elves then were split into multiple peoples, and those Men and Elves who were the lords of the Confederation took on the name 'High' to distinguish themselves from their kin. The Orcs are likewise a High Race, but having had no kin who were not amongst the ruling kindreds of the Confederation, the mere term 'Orc' means quite the same thing as 'High Orc'. All the High Races, in the days of the Confederation, possessed great knowledge in magic, in the crafts, and in the arts of war. Tradition holds that the High Elves and the Orcs were cruel and arrogant to the Dwarves in the days of the Confederation, but the High Men ever admired dwarven ingenuity and learned many things of their dwarven friends in ancient days. Who can say if the High Races even survive, now that the Confederation is fallen? It is sure that many things have perished since the days of the Confederation.
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Mar 5, 2014 09:36
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TehGherkin posted:Ooh, did you link this 1.31 patch in your OP? I might have to go out hunting for it, I've not played MoM in years and playing it with a fresh lick of paint (...That actually makes orcs interesting!) Sounds brilliant. One of my favourite games, let alone 4X, of all time. I'd love a true, modern remake of it instead of another Civ. Age of Wonders games are probably as close as we'll get though, it's just not quite the same. The GOG.com release comes updated to 1.31 by default, and my mod, which is applied to 1.31, is linked in the OP. If you'd like, I'll see if I can find a seperate download of the 1.31 patch if you want, although honestly it's probably worth just getting the game on GOG.com.
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Mar 5, 2014 09:38
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HRH Dagmaer, Queen of Goldwash and Stonegate, Protectress of the Red Desert, &c As I am certain has come to your attention, our nascent capitol's timber industry presently languishes in a most backward state. The ongoing predation of bandits and roving unicorns in the outlying Goldwash forests presently accounts for severe inefficiencies and casualty rates among our foresters and woodcutters. In interest of establishing a viable timber industry in Goldwash, the expedition advisor's committee requests that funds be earmarked for the establishment of proper sawmill facilities and attendant offices for the organization of expeditions under guard of hunting dogs and conscript patrols of the city's unemployed immigrants. It is imperative that we protect our settlement's pool of skilled laborers and craftesmen in order to lift our woodworking industry above its presently subsistence state. And perhaps finally turn out some proper +beds+. Urist Uristsdottir, expedition advisor.
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Mar 5, 2014 09:38
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Neruz posted:So is starting on a sort of largeish island like this normal in Master of Magic? Seems odd as generally in this sort of game the map generation tends towards forming connected bodies rather than seperate ones. You have small, medium and large landmass choices on generation, and even on large you will have maybe one tiny island somewhere, although large is basically one or two supercontinents.
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Mar 5, 2014 15:03
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Reiska posted:If I'm not mistaken, MoM dwarves also have a fairly sizable bonus to trade income as well, not just gold/silver bonuses. Better than that: dwarves pay double taxes. This is an amazing bonus at the start of a game, but eventually it levels off because dwarves can't build bank's (+50% gold) or merchant's guilds (+100% gold).
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Mar 5, 2014 23:07
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Dilb posted:Better than that: dwarves pay double taxes. This is an amazing bonus at the start of a game, but eventually it levels off because dwarves can't build bank's (+50% gold) or merchant's guilds (+100% gold). True, but they're still making more money than any other race than those with coastal cities with Merchants' Guilds. With default taxes and the largest possible city (which is the best case for the non-dwarves), we're looking at... 62 or 63 income for dwarves versus 75 income, with 8 extra upkeep for the bank and merchants' guild, for the non-dwarves. (This is less road/river/coast bonuses, but these will be precisely the same amount of gold for either race at the same city size.) When you factor in industrial productivity and the cost to develop to full industrial productivity, dwarves easily have the best revenue of any race in the game.
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Mar 5, 2014 23:23
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Your Magesty, Now that the loyal administrators of your lands have expanded our work to the newest settlement enjoying your protection, it become more than ever apparent that the rude and uncultured peasantry of Stonegate deserve the chance to look upon your benevolence for themselves. To that end, I must propose the formation of a corps of Royal Engineers to build roads out to every corner of your domain. This would permit all of your subjects the chance to enjoy the light and culture of Goldwash even when, for example, temporarily assigned elsewhere. Also, if I may be so bold, should Your Majesty feel the need to practice your divine powers of Healing upon any blisters, flat feet, or saw calluses, I am of course at your immediate disposal. With greatest regards, Ingelbrecht Fjalarrsen, Assistant Postmaster (probationary), Stonegate
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Mar 5, 2014 23:40
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Message confiscated from unknown persons N, As you know, the Queen has recently captured the city of Stonegate. We should move in quickly to establish our activities before any rivals move in. I have quietly petitioned the Queen to build some roads to speed travel. Recent rumors indicate that our engineers have, in fact, created magical roads which allow for near-instantaneous travel. This may be simply hearsay, but if true, will greatly aid our endeavors. Stay prepared. -M
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Mar 6, 2014 00:15
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MagusOfStars, would it be possible for you to set your options such that you can recieve private messages on the forum? If not, it is no great concern, but I would like to ask you something in private.
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Mar 6, 2014 00:35
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Yer Eighness. Some slobbish bastard keeps leavin papers all over tha place, and I don't think 'Great Malevolent One' and 'Click click click - Click click, clickclick' are among of yer titles. I can't even get a pointy stick to nab em, so I has to clean em up with me ands. Would ye mind getting a sawmill, so yer lazy craftsmen don't have an excuse fer not doing thar job? Might do some paper ree suy cleen while they're there. Or give me a raise. That be nice too. Urist. The janitor. my dad fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 01:09
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Can we please leave off the Dwarf Fortress jokes? They weren't all that amusing the first time, at least to me.
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Mar 6, 2014 01:22
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