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What race should goons play for PvP shenanigans?
This poll is closed.
Furry Dominion 352 27.24%
Orc Covenant 464 35.91%
Lizard Pact 476 36.84%
Total: 1292 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Locked thread
Orv
May 4, 2011

Extra posted:

You can't interrupt instant cast stuns and I've never seen double tapping a directional key to make you immune to CC abilities. Immunity only activates after the existing CC is up.

What you're implying in the last sentence is that MMO PvP is completely devoid of good mechanics without CC. If that's true then it's really silly to say CC is the saving grace of MMO PvP.

Dodging breaks snares, not sure about other CC on dodging. Wasn't sure on the instant cast ones, that's fair.

What I mean by the second part is that without CC it's just running in circles doing damage in various fashions until someone dies. Don't get me wrong, it's not the saving grace of PvP or anything, but it's a layer of complexity that without means there's basically two; damage and healing. (Provided I'm not currently brain damaged and forgetting something, which I probably am.)



E: Ultimately I think there needs to be CC, but you shouldn't be able to completely remove someones ability to respond (even if it's just a cooldown that you blow to prevent it) but I have no idea how to have both worlds. I think the problem of CC lockdown and what we were doing this weekend are partially separate problems however.

Orv fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Mar 5, 2014

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Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



If only every class had access to a stun/knockdown break ability they could use...

Like I've mentioned before in the wildstar thread, stuns are fundamental in all forms of these types of games, including MOBAs. All you have to do is give players some form of active CC break, diminishing returns, immunity and not have enough burst to get someone down from a single stun chain.

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

by Fluffdaddy
Please, let's not bring in the CC discussion into this thread. Go have it in the Wildstar thread since no one has brought it up recently :v:

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

A Tartan Tory
Mar 26, 2010

You call that a shotgun?!
Oh dear God.

When did you get so fat Tali?

puberty worked me over
May 20, 2013

by Cyrano4747

Stanley Pain posted:

Please, let's not bring in the CC discussion into this thread. Go have it in the Wildstar thread since no one has brought it up recently :v:

Well to be fair ESO's CC immunity is far better than most MMOs so that's yet another thing the game has going for it. Not to mention there are CC break abilities in place. I especially like the fact that Heavy Armor players will be able to break out of roots/snares at level 22. It seems like otherwise it might be an unpopular choice.

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

by Fluffdaddy

Extra posted:

Well to be fair ESO's CC immunity is far better than most MMOs so that's yet another thing the game has going for it. Not to mention there are CC break abilities in place. I especially like the fact that Heavy Armor players will be able to break out of roots/snares at level 22.


They've put more thought into PVP than I thought they would. It's taken me completely by surprise. They didn't really hype it all that much either.

fuck off Batman
Oct 14, 2013

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!


Stanley Pain posted:

They've put more thought into PVP than I thought they would. It's taken me completely by surprise. They didn't really hype it all that much either.

Which is ironic since the earliest hate against ESO was because of over-hype.

Evernoob
Jun 21, 2012
The mood of this thread has quite turned around between the last two Beta weekends, and I believe this is for like 90% due to people not reaching PvP/lvl 10 yet in the previous weekend, and them experiencing the PvP first hand this weekend.

I'm still on the fence myself if I want to commit to a new MMO (well I do, but I don't know if this is going to be "the one".)

Unlike many who speak high of the many different ways they can build/play their class, I fail to see it that way.

In the end people will pretty much have all passives unlocked, and can switch around their weapons and armor to fulfil any role required. There are (as far as I know) no character defining choices people have to make besides maybe which stat to boost on lvl up.

When playing an ES game (like Skyrim) you could indeed choose to specialize, or spread out your skillpoints over a bunch of skills. But you could never reach a point where you could do everything perfectly. (unless modded to higher level cap)

Evernoob
Jun 21, 2012
Another weird thing : my skills seemed to level up totally at random. Whether I did or did not use the skill during that particular kill did not seem to matter.
I am also positive I saw my Restoration Staff skill up while it wasn't even equipped. Is that a bug, or working as intended?

I would think a certain skill only improves by actually using it.

puberty worked me over
May 20, 2013

by Cyrano4747

Evernoob posted:

I would think a certain skill only improves by actually using it.

Experience gains are distributed to any skills equipped instead of some dumb grind that requires you keep using the same skills over and over to level them. Long as they are on your bars the exp will be distributed.

Evernoob posted:

Unlike many who speak high of the many different ways they can build/play their class, I fail to see it that way.

In the end people will pretty much have all passives unlocked, and can switch around their weapons and armor to fulfil any role required. There are (as far as I know) no character defining choices people have to make besides maybe which stat to boost on lvl up.

Good then people will try other classes/weapons/armor because it's fun to use their unique abilities not to fill some dumb holy trinity role that your guild needs to collect Ragnaros' rear end. If you mean to tell me Sorcerers play the same as Nightblades I'm already laughing.

e: Also just from screwing around with Sorcerer abilities my class played entirely differently in PvP based on which skills I chose to slot.

puberty worked me over fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Mar 5, 2014

G.I. Jaw
Mar 26, 2003

More cake, Mrs. Tuffington?

Nap Ghost

Evernoob posted:

In the end people will pretty much have all passives unlocked, and can switch around their weapons and armor to fulfil any role required. There are (as far as I know) no character defining choices people have to make besides maybe which stat to boost on lvl up.

The class skills are what will define each class since they are not shared amongst everyone. All four classes bring some pretty unique class skills in each skill tree so even if you have two nightblades with maxed out passives and weapon/armor/guild trees, there's no way to guarantee they're going to fight the same way. The character defining choices are which 5 skills you put on your hotbar because it's going to make a big difference in playstyle.

Evernoob
Jun 21, 2012
Maybe I jumped a bit quick to conclusions about the class defining choices. Thanks for explaining.
I guess nothing prevents them to add extra class or general skill lines as expansions or rewards.

Skillups being based on which skills you currently have on your hotbar makes sense in my case :
I had a restoration staff skill slotted, even when my resto staff was no longer equipped.

Is it possible at all to change weapons/armor during combat? Or is this only possible out of combat. (yes I know about weaponswap at 15)

puberty worked me over
May 20, 2013

by Cyrano4747

Evernoob posted:

Is it possible at all to change weapons/armor during combat? Or is this only possible out of combat. (yes I know about weaponswap at 15)

No, you can only pick two sets of weapons out of combat and then switch between those two sets in combat.



vvv Bow Sorcerers in a nutshell vvv

puberty worked me over fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Mar 5, 2014

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

The biggest thing with CC in ESO is there is a complete lack of feedback for what is going on that it can be frustrating. When I did some pvp it was group versus group at range and at one point my dude just keels over like he got kicked real hard in the dick. Then when my dude is apparently catching his breath from his dick punch I get killed pretty much instantly from ranged attacks and the whole time no enemy was within 20m of me.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
Incapacitates last until you get hit or a few seconds, and that is the kneeling over bit.

You can use stamina to get out of certain CC like roots, but I'm not sure about in that situation.

Synthwave Crusader
Feb 13, 2011

Evernoob posted:

Maybe I jumped a bit quick to conclusions about the class defining choices. Thanks for explaining.
I guess nothing prevents them to add extra class or general skill lines as expansions or rewards.

Skillups being based on which skills you currently have on your hotbar makes sense in my case :
I had a restoration staff skill slotted, even when my resto staff was no longer equipped.

Is it possible at all to change weapons/armor during combat? Or is this only possible out of combat. (yes I know about weaponswap at 15)

There's some addons in the TESO Nexus that I think allow for on demand swapping. Not sure though.

G.I. Jaw
Mar 26, 2003

More cake, Mrs. Tuffington?

Nap Ghost

Third World Reggin posted:

Incapacitates last until you get hit or a few seconds, and that is the kneeling over bit.

You can use stamina to get out of certain CC like roots, but I'm not sure about in that situation.

I don't believe stamina can be used to break incapacitates or stuns. I could be wrong, but I assume this is why I was able to utterly thrash people as a nightblade with teleport strike and veiled strike.

Or they were just ignorant of the fact and let me stunlock them to death. :shrug:

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
I think it was the later. There is a help page on their website but they are not clear on it.

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2939

quote:

WILL THE ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE PREVENT THE OVERUSE OF CROWD-CONTROL EFFECTS IN PVP?
Updated 11/12/2013 01:43 PM
Published 11/12/2013 12:42 PM

While crowd-control effects are an option in PvP, all players also have stamina that they can use to break out of those effects. Breaking out grants players an extra few seconds of immunity to incoming crowd control. Remember, though, that stamina is a finite resource which tired characters must recover even if it has no timed cooldown.

In addition a number of skill lines such as Heavy Armor and Alliance War Support offer abilities that help counter crowd control.

It isn't explained well in the game and it does take a lot of stamina. I believe most people just don't know about it. Another reason I am going to be redguard.

puberty worked me over
May 20, 2013

by Cyrano4747

G.I. Jaw posted:

I don't believe stamina can be used to break incapacitates or stuns. I could be wrong, but I assume this is why I was able to utterly thrash people as a nightblade with teleport strike and veiled strike.

Or they were just ignorant of the fact and let me stunlock them to death. :shrug:

Retreating Maneuver will break snares and roots and grant immunity for 20 seconds, but not stuns. Most people didn't unlock it during the beta anyway but I wouldn't be surprised to see it gain traction at launch. Still at 840 stamina that's a huge hit to take especially if your opponent only used magicka instead of stamina to snare you in the first place. It means your opponent can probably just sprint you down anyway because you've just taken a gigantic stamina hit they didn't. Immovable, a heavy armor ability unlocked at level 22 of the skill grants immunity to knockback/disabling efects for 8 seconds. That said if you've already stunned your heavy armor opponent they can't use Immovable to break out of it, only as a preventative measure afterward.

Third World Reggin posted:

It isn't explained well in the game and it does take a lot of stamina. I believe most people just don't know about it. Another reason I am going to be redguard.

Is it broken via a normal dodge or what? I can recall spamming dodge like a madman and having my butt being beaten on anyway.

vvv Guess I'm just bad at video games :v:

puberty worked me over fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Mar 5, 2014

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
I believe it was a normal dodge that would break you out of it. That or right and left mouse buttons. I can't recall.

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

Third World Reggin posted:

I believe it was a normal dodge that would break you out of it. That or right and left mouse buttons. I can't recall.

Definitely will have to try this out in a duel for the next weekend. I thought you should be able to dodge out of stuff like knockdowns in Wildstar but don't recall it ever working but that could be because of the bad lag too.

WARDUKE
Sep 18, 2012

Muscly armed warrior with glowing eyes and shit.
Any http://esohead.com/ suggestions for a Nightblade build that will be effective in PVP?
Looking to try one out for the next beta weekend.

G.I. Jaw
Mar 26, 2003

More cake, Mrs. Tuffington?

Nap Ghost

WARDUKE posted:

Any http://esohead.com/ suggestions for a Nightblade build that will be effective in PVP?
Looking to try one out for the next beta weekend.

Calculator is kind of messed up because it's showing Caltrops as a rank 1 Assassin skill instead of Assassin's Blade.

I found Nightblade to be very effective 1v1 with the following build:

Active Skills:
Assassin's Blade morphed to Impale
Teleport Strike morphed to Ambush
Shadow Cloak morphed to Shadowy Disguise
Veiled Strike morphed to Concealed Weapon
Twin Slashes morphed to Rending Slashes

Death Stroke morphed to Incapacitating Strike

If you open from stealth with teleport strike, then immediately use Shadow Cloak and Veiled Strike, almost anyone you fight will melt. Survivors can usually be finished with Assassin's Blade.

Twin Slashes gives you something to damage/snare if you are low on magicka, and Death Stroke is good to save in case the enemy is getting the upper hand.

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

http://skillcalc.massyx.de/

This calculator doesn't seem to have nearly as many bugs as ESOhead does and you can also have two weapon sets setup unlike ESO. The only down side is its user interface is kind of garbage. Some of the Morphs aren't updated with what the morph into is probably this ones biggest problem.

BadLlama fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Mar 5, 2014

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
It is web 2.0 as hell and you can save presets by dragging a dot from your selection into a pop up window.

Synthwave Crusader
Feb 13, 2011

G.I. Jaw posted:

Calculator is kind of messed up because it's showing Caltrops as a rank 1 Assassin skill instead of Assassin's Blade.

I found Nightblade to be very effective 1v1 with the following build:

Active Skills:
Assassin's Blade morphed to Impale
Teleport Strike morphed to Ambush
Shadow Cloak morphed to Shadowy Disguise
Veiled Strike morphed to Concealed Weapon
Twin Slashes morphed to Rending Slashes

Death Stroke morphed to Incapacitating Strike

If you open from stealth with teleport strike, then immediately use Shadow Cloak and Veiled Strike, almost anyone you fight will melt. Survivors can usually be finished with Assassin's Blade.

Twin Slashes gives you something to damage/snare if you are low on magicka, and Death Stroke is good to save in case the enemy is getting the upper hand.

You're better off with morphing Teleport Strike into Lotus Fan for the snare and DoT.

Rocketeer Korolev
Dec 22, 2008

Jealous? No? Go frak yourself, Smoothskin...

Third World Reggin posted:

I was sleeping and missed like 4 chances to post bad fan art.

That reminds me: I shouldn't show my sister this game. She's a decent artist but she should just stick to drawing Charizard or whatever that Pokemon was called.

Question: I don't suppose there will be a way to import a character's looks from the beta into the final game? If not, I already have several screenshots to work with when "re-constructing" my lizard guy with the permanent evil smirk. (as in, he's going to pull a Duke Nukem with your head and neck)

jestest
Feb 12, 2014

Ancient Aliens: Closer Encounters

Rocketeer Korolev posted:

Question: I don't suppose there will be a way to import a character's looks from the beta into the final game? If not, I already have several screenshots to work with when "re-constructing" my lizard guy with the permanent evil smirk. (as in, he's going to pull a Duke Nukem with your head and neck)

I really don't think they are going to implement something like this so close to launch. They are most likely focusing on server stability and eliminating lag. The "import from beta" feature would only be useful to players for a very limited time frame and they haven't said anything about adding it as far as I know.

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

I have a feeling running http://esohead.com/skills/40483-radiant-magelight is going to be a requirement in Cyrodill to try and avoid instant stealth ganks.

jestest
Feb 12, 2014

Ancient Aliens: Closer Encounters

BadLlama posted:

I have a feeling running http://esohead.com/skills/40483-radiant-magelight is going to be a requirement in Cyrodill to try and avoid instant stealth ganks.

I've seen people using it in pvp, but it seems so weird that a giant glowing orb doesn't affect your ability to stay hidden at all.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
Magic.

jestest
Feb 12, 2014

Ancient Aliens: Closer Encounters

Understood, issue mentally dismissed.

puberty worked me over
May 20, 2013

by Cyrano4747

BadLlama posted:

I have a feeling running http://esohead.com/skills/40483-radiant-magelight is going to be a requirement in Cyrodill to try and avoid instant stealth ganks.

The 20% spell crit chance at Skill Rank 4 of Inner Light is a bit insane, I'm guessing that will be toned down at some point. But until then I encourage everyone to abuse it.

Darkmoon2k
May 1, 2005
I wonder what the first recorded instance of CC-immunity being introduced to MMOs was? My oldest memory is in Dark Age of Camelot, Thanes used to spam their AOE stun on groups and absolutely wreck; Midgard was super strong at release. Mythic added immunity not long after that I think.

Also that guy who posted the Bow/1H-Shield Sorcerer PVP build on YouTube has a new build, this time a "Double Burst" Nightblade. He uses Heavy Armor, 2H, and a bow in this one.

link

Darkmoon2k fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Mar 5, 2014

G.I. Jaw
Mar 26, 2003

More cake, Mrs. Tuffington?

Nap Ghost

Scyantific posted:

You're better off with morphing Teleport Strike into Lotus Fan for the snare and DoT.

This was just for 1v1, I wanted to focus on burst damage as much as possible. The 30% increased damage bonus was really nice when following up with a +70% crit stealth and veiled strike. For group PvP though, I would absolutely use Lotus Fan.

Sureal
Nov 12, 2010
For purely leveling purposes does it make sense to buy a skill from each of your class schools and slot them on your action bar early on? The idea being that the experience starts going to all of your lines at once. It becomes less of an issue past level 15 (I think) when you start getting experience from both bars.

Also would the same tactic work for armor experience, run around like a hobo with at least one piece of each armor type to unlock skills faster?

eSporks
Jun 10, 2011

Darkmoon2k posted:

I wonder what the first recorded instance of CC-immunity being introduced to MMOs was? My oldest memory is in Dark Age of Camelot, Thanes used to spam their AOE stun on groups and absolutely wreck; Midgard was super strong at release. Mythic added immunity not long after that I think.

Also that guy who posted the Bow/1H-Shield Sorcerer PVP build on YouTube has a new build, this time a "Double Burst" Nightblade. He uses Heavy Armor, 2H, and a bow in this one.

link
Ultima online had trapped pouches to break paralyze. Not quite immunity but close to it.

SoldadoDeTone
Apr 20, 2006

Hold on tight!

Sureal posted:

For purely leveling purposes does it make sense to buy a skill from each of your class schools and slot them on your action bar early on? The idea being that the experience starts going to all of your lines at once. It becomes less of an issue past level 15 (I think) when you start getting experience from both bars.

Also would the same tactic work for armor experience, run around like a hobo with at least one piece of each armor type to unlock skills faster?

Likely so. I tried putting lots of skills from the same tree on my bar, and the trees continued to level at the same pace. I fully intend to grab at least one skill from each tree early on. For example, I'm playing a sorcerer tank, so the summoning tree is mostly useless to me. However, at a higher level the tree has the Bound Armor ability which I want, so I'm going to slot a summoning skill early on just to be able to get Bound Armor in a timely fashion.

Armor may work differently, however. I have not tested that.

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Meme Poker Party
Sep 1, 2006

by Azathoth

Sureal posted:

Also would the same tactic work for armor experience, run around like a hobo with at least one piece of each armor type to unlock skills faster?

Not looking like a hobo is easy, just have it make sense. For example, if your primary is light armor just have a heavy armor chest piece and and a cloth belt. Bam, perfect outfit.

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