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CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:If only you had started in one of the two arcs where everyone is naked. Only, surprise! She's just a publisher. I guess I'll say this: If you're going into Afterdead, here's my understanding: The setting of Afterdead (at least after Pfirsch escapes purgatory where he grows geraniums on a tank, walks through caves of chicken bones, and is pestered by mammoth-riders and his skinhead centaur grandson) is some sort of Nazi analogue. There it's not the Third Reich, it's just the Reich, since they're so efficient they created fascism correctly the first time. Most of the people in the Reich are living. It's one of a range of afterlives, though, for people who are dead from other worlds, or possibly only our world. As far as we've seen, only people from our Earth have shown up as Afterdead there (and not all people who died on Earth and escaped purgatory go there; there is a filtering system). Afterdead are vastly outnumbered by living people. Everyone goes about their Reich duty like usual. It's vaguely absurd because she's highlighting the absurdity of that kind of government. There are centaur, half-horses, harpies, multi-armed persons, horned persons, face horses, and other bizarre creatures, as well as cyborgs, vampires, failed resurrections, and etc. Most folk seem comfortable with the system. They prefer their lives to what they know of Earth, which they can witness and have heard of from the afterdead. They have their own Catholic church but we don't know too much about it, other than its Pope. Afterdead persons are seen as an annoyance more than anything, and no one is really sure why they are there. They often come across as quaint, anachronistic, and weird. Also, they have memory problems. Their awareness of the good things about their lives fades over time, unless they have black fingernails. It's not clear if the black fingernails are a signifier of having achieved self-awareness after arriving or whether they're just a symbol that is associated with people destined not to lose their memories. Either way, the average Afterdead person can only remember the things they hated about Earth or which caused them distress. The downside is that since Pfirsch has black fingernails, he remembers people who don't remember him back. As far as we know, the people with black fingernails are only Pfirsch and Rosen, and earlier Kjars. That said, it seems that people who have forgotten good things can be prompted to remember them if the emotional connection is sufficiently strong. Anyway, this has resulted in a bit of a post-mortem reshuffling of some folk because they're more likely to be friends with acquaintances than with people who were particularly important to them in life. Hence Kjars and Erwin hang out now. People who are Afterdead are often given assignments like normal people, but they're not actually required to do them. They can't die again or be harmed in any physical way. Afterdead do not look exactly like they did in life, but it's not clear why they will sometimes show up differently. For example, Erwin has long hair and Kjars has portions of African-looking skin. Is that what everyone figures so far? Pick fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 07:55
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Pick posted:Only, surprise! She's just a publisher. It's a very easy mistake to make. I have also decided that I will read Stinz after all. I have decided that if there are any horsecocks to be found, I will just have to deal with them as they appear. It will be a learning process. Is the Musswolf a character from Stinz too? I ask because she seems to have a lot of extra art for something that only really appeared in two Afterdead arcs. e: "she" being Donna Barr, the Musswolf is still a guy
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Mar 6, 2014 08:02
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That seems more or less accurate! I was wondering whether the black fingernails thing was something that you got saddled with and so you remembered things, or was something that you gained after being prompted to remember enough of your living memories. I suppose it may be expanded on later, either way, it seems deliberately ambiguous at this point. The inverse correlation of memory to affection thing works with hate, too: if you hate or otherwise dislike someone, you are able to remember them very clearly. This makes sense in a ghostly kind of way and is the plot of Kjar's and Rommel's epic adventure, featuring the Hitler-horse. (Facehorses are humans (and possibly horses/centaurs?) who did Bad Things and now have no memory and are all like "Yeah, I'm a facehorse, it's cool I guess.  ")And cyborgs get special rights and clearances in exchange for being literally owned by other members of the Reich.
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Mar 6, 2014 08:18
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Protip: don't try to explain the plot of The Desert Peach #8 to your very much German boyfriend. Four years together, and that's the first time he made the "what the gently caress is this" face at me. 
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Mar 6, 2014 08:18
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CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:That seems more or less accurate! I was wondering whether the black fingernails thing was something that you got saddled with and so you remembered things, or was something that you gained after being prompted to remember enough of your living memories. I suppose it may be expanded on later, either way, it seems deliberately ambiguous at this point. quote:The inverse correlation of memory to affection thing works with hate, too: if you hate or otherwise dislike someone, you are able to remember them very clearly. This makes sense in a ghostly kind of way and is the plot of Kjar's and Rommel's epic adventure, featuring the Hitler-horse. (Facehorses are humans (and possibly horses/centaurs?) who did Bad Things and now have no memory and are all like "Yeah, I'm a facehorse, it's cool I guess. What's odd is in a way this makes sense: you don't pine after what you've lost, but you can still make amends. Cool, no? Except other people remember the relationship you had if they knew you both, e.g. Kjars. Kjars didn't like Pfirsch and wasn't close to Erwin, so even if Pfirsch didn't have black nails, Kjars could remind him that they were brothers with a largely positive relationship that they have now forgotten--that they've lost. We've already been shown that this causes people considerable grief. Add in the black-nailers and it ends up being pretty emotionally devastating. quote:And cyborgs get special rights and clearances in exchange for being literally owned by other members of the Reich. And Pfirsch is a "cyborg" because of his replacement heart valves, knees, and bladder!
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Mar 6, 2014 08:36
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chthonic bell posted:Protip: don't try to explain the plot of The Desert Peach #8 to your very much German boyfriend. My sympathies! Also after re-reading the wacky adventures of Kjars and Rommel featuring Adolf Horseler, Kjars' nails (and Dagmar's?) go from black to normal as they forget each other and move on:   In other news, I want a camelbot.
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Mar 6, 2014 08:39
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Why is that tree alive?
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Mar 6, 2014 08:42
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What is "Barr Girls?" Google is not helping.
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Mar 6, 2014 08:44
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Oh man, I didn't even see that in the gradients. Good catch! Other world notes: Though Pfirsch enters the afterlife-world in a field outside the Reich city proper, most of the comic takes place in the Reich. However, the Reich does not encompass the entire world. There are tribal bands in the outlying areas, some developed cities, and some of the valleys--like Stinz's--are essentially independent in their day-to-day operations. The Raider also operates from outside Reich lands. It's not really clear how far the Reich extends or if they are other Western-style "nations", though we should probably assume there are because tourism is a known phenomenon. Additionally, race and species don't seem to matter in the Reich, although Catholics are not considered a subset of Christians, where Christians suffer a weird sort of persecution which is more like annoyance. Being Jewish or LGBT is irrelevant. However, being a one of the "creature" species can be relevant because the Reich (with the exception of outlying areas) controls breeding. Being from an established bloodline is apparently still important, and centaurs at least suffer for their lack of representation in the Reich's studbooks.
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Mar 6, 2014 08:51
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Pick posted:where Christians suffer a weird sort of persecution which is more like annoyance. This thing with the Christians being legally required to bury their menstrual fluids/semen is an expansion on something she mentioned on her dA when explaining her religious/political beliefs: Donna Barr's dA posted:Life begins with the sperm and the egg; when arguing "life begins with conception," religious people are actually arguing about the beginning of an imaginary soul. If they insist on following their own argument, they should all require each other to give sacred burial to their sperm and menstrual flows. This would be fun to watch. I would buy tickets. It makes me wonder how many things in Afterdead are things that only make sense if you scour her many journals and side projects. Meanwhile, this is a picture of a Reichisch Border Guard, who I fondly refer to as Karate Raptor: 
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Mar 6, 2014 09:04
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CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:Meanwhile, this is a picture of a Reichisch Border Guard, who I fondly refer to as Karate Raptor: I have never been so tempted to change my username. e: I like the holly, he's loving festive.
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Mar 6, 2014 09:06
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Centaurs on a ladder. My immersion = ruined. I'm going through Stinz very slowly, I'm pretending to actually work on papers at the same time. I must say that it's a lot more readable when she has someone else do the lettering.
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Mar 6, 2014 09:27
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I really like Stinz' nose, I think if he were a normal dude he would be quite handsome.
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Mar 6, 2014 09:30
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Oh poo poo, gooses  I have been waiting for poultry to appear ever since seeing this:  That is a nice rooster.
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Mar 6, 2014 09:49
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What the gently caress, why does the horse have cloven hooves?
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Mar 6, 2014 09:52
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Pick posted:What the gently caress, why does the horse have cloven hooves? You know, I never noticed that. It's certainly not something she does on her regular horse-man abominations. That is very strange. Maybe he was a half-satyr before he became a facehorse.
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Mar 6, 2014 10:01
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I started reading through Stinz and I'm unironically enjoying it. It's pretty charming, in its own way! I'm only up to the sixth issue or so and there hasn't been anything weird so far besides the pheromones thing. Which makes me curious to see how Barr's stories went from "old-timey centaur farmers in Germany" to "Nazis and time travel in hell" over the years... I also really like Barr's art style, she draws some of the best horses I've ever seen and her inks are lovely. It looks like that goes downhill later on when she starts adding the gradients and stuff though, I don't like the pages I've seen from Afterdead NEARLY as much as I like the art in Stinz
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Mar 6, 2014 18:34
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Captain Candyblood posted:I started reading through Stinz and I'm unironically enjoying it. It's pretty charming, in its own way! I'm only up to the sixth issue or so and there hasn't been anything weird so far besides the pheromones thing. Which makes me curious to see how Barr's stories went from "old-timey centaur farmers in Germany" to "Nazis and time travel in hell" over the years... The Desert Peach is the transitional period, from "kooky but great" to "kooky but questionable but still pretty good" to "WHAT THE gently caress DONNA". And yeah, her art has really gone downhill. It's a pity, at her peak, she was great.
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Mar 6, 2014 21:35
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chthonic bell posted:And yeah, her art has really gone downhill.
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Mar 6, 2014 22:39
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Captain Candyblood posted:I also really like Barr's art style, she draws some of the best horses I've ever seen and her inks are lovely. Her horses are truly incredible.   At this point, her inks were already looser than in Stinz/early DP, but I still think it looks fantastic and personally think it's my favorite period. Her expressions and humans are stiffer earlier on; this is where everything flowed beautifully but still had the strength of excellent fundamentals. Pick fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 22:44
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Captain Candyblood posted:I started reading through Stinz and I'm unironically enjoying it. It's pretty charming, in its own way! I'm only up to the sixth issue or so and there hasn't been anything weird so far besides the pheromones thing. Which makes me curious to see how Barr's stories went from "old-timey centaur farmers in Germany" to "Nazis and time travel in hell" over the years... The way we found this woman is that I came across Stinz while looking for weird webcomics, and it seemed funny and not hosed up like the other stuff that sometimes shows up in the webcomics thread, so I shared it. And then we found The Desert Peach, which is bizarre, and then Afterdead. That's what made everyone incredibly uncomfortable, and yet is in some ways utterly fascinating as a look into a talented woman with absolutely no filters left.
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Mar 6, 2014 22:45
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sweeperbravo posted:Can you post a sample that demonstrates this? I'm interested but truly can't keep track of what comes after what. Sure! Here's a page from The Desert Peach #19, 1992:  Here's a page from the most recent Afterdead issue, probably around the 2010s:  The first one isn't her best work by far, but it's clear, comprehensible and features a variety of compositions. The second is ... a mess. Also: facehorses.
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Mar 6, 2014 22:47
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And this is from Stinz #1: You can see where her inks have gotten progressively looser over time, far more impressionistic as we go. e: It's especially clear in the typography. Pick fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Mar 6, 2014 |
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Mar 6, 2014 22:51
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Thanks, those examples were pretty clear.
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Mar 6, 2014 23:13
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I wonder if she's obsessed with horses because she's really good at drawing them, or if she's really good at drawing horses because she's obsessed with them?
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Mar 7, 2014 01:27
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Squeegy posted:I wonder if she's obsessed with horses because she's really good at drawing them, or if she's really good at drawing horses because she's obsessed with them? Mainly the latter, I'd suspect.
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Mar 7, 2014 01:47
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Squeegy posted:I wonder if she's obsessed with horses because she's really good at drawing them, or if she's really good at drawing horses because she's obsessed with them? She says she's been drawing horses since elementary school, and she's ridden quite a few. So it sounds like it's born of an early interest.
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Mar 7, 2014 01:51
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Artifacting and other issues aside, I do dig the fish-design elements in the panel borders and balloon corners in that Afterdead page...
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Mar 7, 2014 02:38
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bigbigtruck posted:Artifacting and other issues aside, I do dig the fish-design elements in the panel borders and balloon corners in that Afterdead page... So do I! The page numbering (in DP and Afterdead at least) is often theme-based, and, in the case of Afterdead, floats randomly about the page  Also the change in her art style from early to later works is something I'd noticed before, and is very well emphasised by those panel selections, Pick. CROWS EVERYWHERE fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Mar 7, 2014 |
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Mar 7, 2014 04:26
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Occasionally it makes its way into the page in DP as well; there's one issue where it's a peach and Udo picks it up and marvels at it a few times in the background. She absolutely capitalizes on comics being comics in a way I really admire. Desert Peach #2 also begins with an allegory using panel borders.
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Mar 7, 2014 04:49
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Pick posted:Occasionally it makes its way into the page in DP as well; there's one issue where it's a peach and Udo picks it up and marvels at it a few times in the background. That is something I do quite like about her work. She absolutely makes the most of out of her medium and obviously enjoys using it. She would be someone I would almost like to bring up in my Stylistics classes except for, well, everything else
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Mar 7, 2014 04:57
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CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:That is something I do quite like about her work. She absolutely makes the most of out of her medium and obviously enjoys using it. She would be someone I would almost like to bring up in my Stylistics classes except for, well, everything else This was safer before Google existed. I'd absolutely send an old professor some copies of Stinz if not for Barr's other work.
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Mar 7, 2014 07:39
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Hey, don't you do "TJ & Amal"? I recommended it earlier in the thread, and I think we're all wondering how you managed to do a believable gay male sex scene without it being embarrassingly bad like every other one written and drawn by a woman (like, for example, The Desert Peach issue #20). If this is a closely guarded secret then I'm sure everyone will understand.
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Mar 7, 2014 10:55
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I want to know, too, because TJ and Amal is like one of very few gay romance comics I know that did not make me feel like a weird fetish object. I really like the page number gimmicks in Barr's work, too.  They're pretty charming. There's a lot in her art that's really, really good, which is what makes the weird poo poo stand out like this. If she were totally crap, none of us would be here, etc.
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Mar 7, 2014 13:08
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Heresiarch posted:Hey, don't you do "TJ & Amal"? I recommended it earlier in the thread, and I think we're all wondering how you managed to do a believable gay male sex scene without it being embarrassingly bad like every other one written and drawn by a woman (like, for example, The Desert Peach issue #20). Woah, hey. Usually the way to compliment someone is not to insult everyone else.
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Mar 7, 2014 14:55
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Yours is p. good, too! But I told you that, already. But seriously, the majority of slash makes me feel really grody. Not that porn by gay men is any better, because that assumes I like monster cocks. There's just no winning with porn.
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Mar 7, 2014 15:45
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Pick posted:Woah, hey. Usually the way to compliment someone is not to insult everyone else. Only if you're a sissy, giving wuss compliments. 
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Mar 7, 2014 15:45
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chthonic bell posted:But seriously, the majority of slash makes me feel really grody. I don't doubt it, or even disagree, it's just that "Everyone in minority group is incompetent, except you" is not really a great compliment framework and I'd imagine is as liable to make her feel uncomfortable as it is to make her feel gratified.
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Mar 7, 2014 15:47
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Yeah, I draw TJ&A. I'm afraid I don't really have an answer, though. (But I'm glad you enjoyed it ) I recognized that DP page where the dude is trying to calm the Bedouins' horses and realized I *did* read some of it a long time ago -- but what I recall doesn't seem to overlap with the parts being discussed here. The main thing I remember is a lot of black comedy involving the crazy munitions guy... what wound up happening to him in the end?
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Mar 7, 2014 19:17
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bigbigtruck posted:I recognized that DP page where the dude is trying to calm the Bedouins' horses and realized I *did* read some of it a long time ago -- but what I recall doesn't seem to overlap with the parts being discussed here. The main thing I remember is a lot of black comedy involving the crazy munitions guy... what wound up happening to him in the end? That's Heinrich Dobermann (senior lance-corporal). He is around as long as they're in the desert, but after the time skip he doesn't show up any more and it's implied that he died along with almost all the others. He has not yet shown up in Afterdead. It probably hasn't come up because there is a lot of Desert Peach. Like, around 1,200 pages, depending on where you make the cutoff.
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Mar 7, 2014 20:22
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