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Pick posted:... What? The Cerebus guy?! Dave Sim was really important in the indie and self-publishing scene back in the 90's, before he went crazy and became the Ultra-Misogynist. The intro is basically him saying that without independent publishing, nothing as utterly bizarre as the Peach would have ever made it to paper and received an audience. CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:e: Is it possible to have a list of the artists/writers who contributed to this? I would like to go exploring the depths of older indie comics and this seems like at least an interesting place to start. Here's the back cover with the list of contributors. And for everybody else, here's more from the books. First, these are the six collections I have that cover all of the regular issues (minus side-stories and noncanon stuff) up to #19.   And here's some stuff from the insides, since the early issues aren't online. Again, sorry that these aren't good scans but these are square-bound trade paperbacks and I don't want to break the spines. Also my phone camera is not very good, mea culpa, but these are links to the imgur pages with the full-size photos where things might be a bit clearer. These are the second and third pages from the first issue. The first page is that "Udo, where have you gotten to" image that you can, weirdly, get on a t-shirt. Obviously the tone was... different at that point, and her drawing style hasn't developed into full Barr-ism.  From the second issue, a bar fight with a Cossak, who eventually becomes a regular cast member. The tone and her art are already a lot different.  Skipping issue #3 because it's everybody at the beach. Naked, mostly, with strategically placed objects and word balloons and a completely camp feel. It's very weird and NSFW and Barr draws ordinary naked men very realistically, i.e. kind of dumpy. If people really want to see it I can put up some example pages, but it feels very out-of-place, like it should have been issue #2. Issue #4 is where the series starts to take off, art and story-wise, and involves a visit to the unit by Nazi political officials to make sure everybody is all properly National Socialist. Everybody freaks out because the unit is full of the sort of people that get sent to camps and everybody knows it, and the camp political officer (Winzig) isn't actually a party member because he couldn't afford the dues. Turns out that Udo is a member from when he was a kid (last attended a party meeting in 1926), but he's too scared to face the party officials. So somebody slips him some of Dobermann's pills. And this happens.  And the Nazi politial officers are so impressed by his patriotism (read: loving psychosis) that they don't bother checking out the rest of the unit. I really like how Psychotic Break Udo is drawn. She does something similar in another issue where the Peach gets accidentally dosed and very, very bad things happen. I can keep going if people are interested.
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Mar 15, 2014 08:57
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This is very good, thank you! Also, keep going if you want, this is all new and therefore interesting to me. I must say I prefer her earlier style somewhat, if only because of how more controlled it is. Speaking of which, the latest Afterdead:  Features orca milk (or lack thereof) and violence to gunfishbirds.
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Mar 15, 2014 11:22
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I bought a ticket to ECCC2014 and intend to meet Donna Barr there.
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Mar 16, 2014 02:14
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That should be an...interesting experience. What do you expect her to be like?
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Mar 16, 2014 05:29
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Pick posted:I bought a ticket to ECCC2014 and intend to meet Donna Barr there. You are a braver womyn than I! Bring back tales of your adventure.
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Mar 16, 2014 07:26
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Heresiarch posted:
I think you should! Also, the Psychotic Break Udo and Psychotic Break Pfirsch are some of the most interesting, artistically. We're used to her being unrestrained with Afterdead, but in the context of the very tight artwork of early Desert Peach, it was extremely effective.
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Mar 16, 2014 07:30
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Captain Candyblood posted:That should be an...interesting experience. What do you expect her to be like? Probably a lot more normal than we're giving her credit for, just with a strong independent streak.
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Mar 17, 2014 03:48
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If anyone wants to have a look at how Donna Barr writes without pictures (for the main part) to back it up, here's a Desert Peach half-horse transformation fanfic that she wrote for a paying customer. It's from 2008 and includes four full-colour illustrations that are also available on her deviantART account. If the idea of Pfirsich and Udo being transformed into half-horses for 21,000+ words (  ) is something that floats your boat, check it out. If not, that's probably a good sign.e: a choice quote: quote:“No, we're in a dream, for sure. There's no way we'd have horse butts if it were real.”
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Mar 21, 2014 08:13
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Yeah, it's mentioned... man, somewhere, I've been busy, that there is one guy in particular, Eric Schneider I think his name is, that consistently pays her for enormous screeds exclusively about horse transformation. I have to say, I preferred it when crazy rich kids were commissioning things like the castle at Neuschwanstein, but the world turns. e: You know, I normally object to bringing creator's lives into things, but I have to say that the Donna Barr story is really incomplete without some of these details. Someone earlier in the thread said that the summary of her work is word salad. A description of her loving life is word salad! Pick fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Mar 21, 2014 |
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Mar 21, 2014 12:39
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An update! In which Stinz reappears, demanding answers about gunfishbirds. But oh no! Where is gunfishbird? Pfirsich has some explaining to do. I would not be disappointed if the rest of this chapter is Wonderful Adventures of Gunfishbird.
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Mar 22, 2014 10:03
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Hold on, is that THE Daniel Pinkwater?
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Mar 22, 2014 20:58
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It has been a while but wasn't the bird imprinted on him? Even for what it is this comic is incomprehensible
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Mar 23, 2014 15:57
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How long has Ms Barr been drawing this centaur/Nazi stuff? Does she have a published work that isn't about horses or Germans?
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Mar 23, 2014 22:43
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Desert Peach began in 1987, and Stinz in 1986. She has a few things from before then, but in anthologies. That means she has been active in the indie comics scene for at least 28 years.
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Mar 23, 2014 22:49
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fritz posted:Hold on, is that THE Daniel Pinkwater? According to the book's credits page, it's the one who does children's books and the like, yes. However, it's just a letter that serves as a second intro, after the Dave Sim one. They apparently knew each other? Speaking of which, somewhere in the boxes of books that are currently inaccessible I think I have a copy of this as well, which IIRC was the last Barr book that my old comic book store pulled for me before I stopped buying monthly comics in 2004-ish and shut down my pull list. I don't think I actually read it because I was in the middle of Some Terrible poo poo at the time and I had a reading backlog. I remember literally nothing about it except that it didn't resemble her other work much at all and was very much a kid's book. This is the only artwork sample I've been able to find online, but if I can get some reorganizing done I might be able to find it and share more. [edit] Oh, and she has a Lulu page, as well, which includes some of her prose novels, apparently, along with other stuff.
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Mar 24, 2014 02:47
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Pick, when you visit Ms Barr at ECCC you must try to arrange some kind of art trade or crossover. Gay Nazi centaurs in Hell and demon/angel yaois in Hell, you are made for one another.
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Mar 26, 2014 01:28
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CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:Pick, when you visit Ms Barr at ECCC you must try to arrange some kind of art trade or crossover. Gay Nazi centaurs in Hell and demon/angel yaois in Hell, you are made for one another. If I have time I'll try to have a gift sketch for her, that's just good manners.
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Mar 26, 2014 01:41
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Pick posted:If I have time I'll try to have a gift sketch for her, that's just good manners. That does sound like a good idea. I hope she likes it.  Meanwhile, in class today the lecturer was discussing a book he was reading. It is centred around the main character, Leon, who is incapable of sexual desire and is only able to appreciate beauty; he has married Tess, who likes loving every guy ever but has dedicated her heart and love to Leon. They have some kind of thing where she tries on lots of fancy dresses and he just looks at her and appreciates her beauty. Anyway, she ends up dying of cancer and correspondence between her and a lover, a Polish poet, comes to light, which makes Leon go mad. I bring this up because apparently the thing that Tess and the Polish poet like to do together is go out to his property in the country where she runs through the fields buck-naked and he pretends to be a donkey and chases after her and ravishes her. Very romantic. I figured it was kind of relevant to this thread. Apparently it's a comedy about grieving. Looking it up, it's Joyful by Robert Hillman. Due out in April sometime. Look at me supporting Australian writing  e: For actual Barr-related content, have an old political cartoon from her dA:  I would personally prefer a big DEBT label on there somewhere. But that is just me. e2: Heresiarch posted:
This one interested me because it seemed very similar in tone to a book I had as a child and really loved (even got it autographed) and which is now in storage somewhere and I can't remember the name or title of  It was very good and about a weird old lady who lived in a weird old house and had weird old dolls and old clothes and things. It was one of those "Don't be afraid of people just because they're weird and old and stuff" that I liked and was given growing up. In general, I like Donna Barr's attempts to go more into children's book territory. She is quite good at it and reads like stuff I would have really enjoyed when I was little.
CROWS EVERYWHERE fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Mar 27, 2014 |
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Mar 27, 2014 08:32
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A new Afterdead! In which the star, gunfishbird, is spoken of, but not seen. It seems this one is the site updating with more recent Afterdead pages again now  Just to keep you on your toes.
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Mar 29, 2014 02:23
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I just finished speaking with Donna Barr at quite significant length so I'll type more about that later. Very very interesting person.
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Mar 29, 2014 07:34
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I can't wait to hear all about it  Would you mind telling us about what ECCC was like in general? It may be off-topic but I'm curious, I really wanted to go...
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Mar 29, 2014 22:02
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A new Afterdead! In which gunfishbird returns from whence it came. Why does Stinz's size compared to everyone else keep changing  Also, it looks as if this is the end of this chapter. What is next? Nobody knows.Oh, and please tell us about your adventures, Pick! I'm eager to hear what insight you've gleaned from talks with Donna Barr herself. And anything else you think might be interesting.
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Apr 1, 2014 03:14
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Captain Candyblood posted:I can't wait to hear all about it My original plan was to write a bit more, since I spoke with Donna Barr at considerable length (several hours). Upon reflection, though, I'm not as comfortable about it because I really didn't make it clear when I approached her that anything from our conversation might be repeated elsewhere, and I don't feel comfortable with a "trip report" that might come across as having been at her expense. So I'll keep it brief. Donna Barr is clearly very, very left-wing, extremely well-read, and quite generous--though in absolutely no way extravagant. She is also insanely skilled, and draws at the speed you can apply ink to paper. Everything you see here was drawn with Sharpies freehand, without sketches underneath:   (The Quetzalcoatl-thing is Stinz' commander in Afterdead, she says.) These are the work of about five minutes apiece. Other fans came by her table, and I spoke with a few of them as well. There is definitely a certain degree of awkwardness associated with it, but also a bit of an "understanding". ECCC skews young, at least in terms of visitors, so all of our experience was in a way retrospective. Barr herself seems to be rather taken aback when people have already read her comics--she was definitely surprised at how familiar I was, though I brought Stinz 1-3, Desert Peach 1, and Barr Girls 1 for her to sign (which she did gladly). Also, she was tabling as "Desert Peach" along with "Cat Comics", another older lady who was apparently a friend. Barr was also promoting an Olympic Peninsula comics convention which by other accounts is basically a party at her house with some of the more interesting indie artists she knows. Barr was happy to talk about a wide variety of subjects--with abrupt transitions--but she was especially concerned with mortality and the state of Native Americans. From the sound of it she lives by or on the res, either the Skokomish or the Suquamish but I couldn't gather which. Apparently she has been declared dead in the past and she reflected on whether she should have "stayed" dead and whether she is effectively dead, and whether everyone is effectively dead. She also thinks in a way that society is past the sustainable threshold and that there's sort of a general futility. She says that and yet she is very happy to meet young people. As for a few comic-specific questions, the beginning of Afterdead is a reflection of her rather dire outlook, that society is aggressive and rewards trickery (that though Pfirsch's genes have endured, his values haven't--Rosen's did). The grandson is half bone-centaur because she likes to draw horse bones. She knows Rosen is terrible, and he's supposed to be absolutely terrible--you are supposed to feel bad for Pfirsch but (Afterdead aside) it's genuine even so. She's not only interested in WWI/II Germany, but also the 30 Years' War. She was able to draw tanks particularly well, even before the internet, because her fans would send her models of different tank designs for reference. She still has Karate Raptor for sale. Her tattoo doesn't really look like anything specific, other than a faded spider thing. She was selling copies of older publications but had some of the Lulu editions also. Her hands felt a little arthritic so that might be why she has moved to a looser style. Generally, she's almost exactly what I expected actually. She does exhibit some of the characteristics usually associated with compromised mental wellness, but I think that she is in the right space for what she is doing and she certainly isn't harming anyone, and in fact seems very keen to help people insofar as she can. Captain Candyblood posted:Would you mind telling us about what ECCC was like in general? It may be off-topic but I'm curious, I really wanted to go... I was half there to hang out with my friend Jakface (and another of her friends I know), who had a picture in the official ECCC2014 book and makes "WooHoo". I intended to see some other artists too, most notably Barr herself but also Weaver and the BCB duo. First day in, I helped Jak set up and we chatted and caught up and did last minute merch-stuff and etc. We also cut out some prints I had made at the FedEx Office there, since that would give me something to hand out and potentially help justify the expense. We sketched and laughed and farted and whatnot. The next morning we went back in with the more valuable merchandise and other goods. She seemed prepped and her other more helpful friend was there, so I started wandering around, scouting where certain artists were at. That's when I met Taeshi and Suitcase, who together make Bittersweet Candy Bowl and had a table in the exhibitor's section. I only really know them as goons but I thought it would be fun to say hello and I promised to do so in the webcomics thread. They were both really nice and I ended up spending more time over the two days I was at the con. I went and said hi to Dave Willis (Shortpacked, Dumbing of Age) and talked about G1 Transformers, culminating with telling him about the Transformers porn panel at the yaoi con for a laugh, hopefully he can get some mileage out of that. I also stopped by Kris Straub (Chainsawsuit, Broodhollow) and discussed criticism and the Zen Pencils art monster for a decent chunk of time. He's a neat dude. I also went and bought the Buttersafe book and had a short conversation with him. Turns out the Tragedy Series guy was there too, so I asked him a bit about his process and complimented his Little Meowskers portion in particular, so I got some copybooks from him with a Little Meowskers sketch. I tried to find Kellhound the first day but she was at a panel, so I bought the Sci-fi edition of Womanthology and kept moving. I bought a Brittany Lee original of a fox that is insanely, insanely cute too  . They're expensive, but with her doing so much work for Disney now I doubt they're on a trajectory to get any cheaper. Oh poo poo, actually the first thing I did was go with Jakface's friend to Weaver's table to pick up Whisper Grass so we could get it before it sold out. I snagged one, which kind of shocked me since I missed the online sale and assumed I'd never get my hands on it.Uhhh... there was also Dylan Meconis of Family Man and Bite Me! ... I already have those so I picked up "Outfoxed". I was able to go back to Kellhound's table when she was there and got her books then, which was a good deal because then I could have them signed. I was regularly returning to Jak's table to lend a hand but she mostly had it under control and was busy with commissions so I didn't want to get in her way. Oh! Starlock was there, I have done fanart for her before. She didn't know Barr was going to be in, so I introduced them. Turns out she rooms with Crypto, who makes a very pretty webcomic as well so I grabbed a print there. After all that stuff and probably more I'm forgetting (oh, met the creators of Kinsey House), the floor closed for the day and it was time to get food. Oh wait poo poo, also Jak was tabled right neat daunt which was kind of funny. Okay. Then the meal was taking a while and I agreed to meet up with Taeshi and Suitcase for a drink, and Jak's party was getting kind of big since all the restaurants were packed, so I cleaved myself and went to go have dinner with them on the pier. We chatted basically forever and since my original host's room had a young baby in it (and I was sleeping on the floor) actually I split with them for the second night. Then the following day I said goodbye to folk and got picked up by my parents who live around there. Afterwards, I went with my parents to our cabin where the creepy otters kept scratching to be let in.  Then I did some other personal stuff in the PNW, since that's where I'm from originally, such as meet up with a former friend who is now a kept man. On the plane ride back I was pretty productive and made a lot of drawings for the comic that will soon replace my current one. That's about it. Pick fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Apr 3, 2014 04:34
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I really can't believe she did those sketches freehand, in pen, in under 5 minutes. That's so impressive! Sad to hear that she might have arthritis, but that would explain a lot. I assumed her devolution was her losing interest or not being as invested in her work anymore; I never considered that she might not be physically able to draw like she used to and now I feel bad  She sounds interesting if nothing else! Thanks for sharing. How large was the convention? Also, I'm so loving jealous of those otters. I want otters to come to my doorstep 
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Apr 3, 2014 06:47
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That does sound like a very interesting trip! So many people. It must have been very educational, especially for you being in the webcomics scene yourself. I think I've seen a couple of the snakebird people in the background in Afterdead. And that is a very good gunfishbird. With a bonus Udo too! Gunfishbird and Udo are the best. Also that's very impressive for such quick drawings! I had read about her crazy levels of output and speed but it's good to have such a solid example. I hadn't considered either that there might be physical barriers to drawing as well as she once did and now I feel like something of a jerk  Though I guess the fundamentals of knowing how to compose a scene and colour it well, which she is very good at (eye-searing gradients possibly aside) are things that will persist.Either way, it is good to hear you had fun! Also, otters 
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Apr 3, 2014 07:32
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Those are some friendly loving otters. Did you pet them? Also, the singular of womyn is "a womon."
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Apr 3, 2014 08:20
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Squeegy posted:Those are some friendly loving otters. Did you pet them? Are otters safe to pat? I don't know what the terrible disease carrying status of otters is but I am reliably informed that every cute American animal is crawling with one or more rabies. 
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Apr 3, 2014 09:06
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I think otters might be bitey? It's raccoons that are terrifying disease bags (they carry a parasite that, uh,  it's a worm that ends up living in human brains if it ends up in humans), bats might have rabies but not 100% always.Also, poo poo, if Donna Barr's got arthritis, I really feel for her. Connective tissue bullshit is hell, especially if you like to type or draw or do anything at all requiring finesse. It's really impressive she can draw so fast with no undersketches still, though.
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Apr 3, 2014 11:16
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Arthritis is a loving bitch and a half. I notice that you got "Barr Girls", Pick. I'm wondering what you thought of it when you realized what it was about.
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Apr 3, 2014 12:42
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FYI I am judging all you womyn.
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Apr 3, 2014 13:05
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CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:Are otters safe to pat? I don't know what the terrible disease carrying status of otters is but I am reliably informed that every cute American animal is crawling with one or more rabies. Otters don't carry human diseases that someone without immunodeficiencies will ever contract from them, though they will probably run away or bite you which isn't very nice. If Pick's dogs aren't vaccinated for distemper, though, she needs to do that because otters are sometimes carriers and might infect them.
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Apr 3, 2014 16:06
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Captain Candyblood posted:How large was the convention? CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:That does sound like a very interesting trip! So many people. It must have been very educational, especially for you being in the webcomics scene yourself. quote:Though I guess the fundamentals of knowing how to compose a scene and colour it well, which she is very good at (eye-searing gradients possibly aside) are things that will persist. Squeegy posted:Those are some friendly loving otters. Did you pet them? .Heresiarch posted:I notice that you got "Barr Girls", Pick. I'm wondering what you thought of it when you realized what it was about. Pick fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Apr 3, 2014 17:23
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Oh, I did enjoy her comments to herself in the margins though, like "you will never be able to publish this" and a light but amusing crack at the people who use the "anatomical study" excuse.
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Apr 4, 2014 01:08
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Thanks for the book, Pick! It was good to meet you.
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Apr 4, 2014 01:47
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Pick posted:I had a comic-making friend a while back who was really, really into dickgirls so I think I'm difficult to shock any more. It wasn't so much the dickgirl aspect as it was the "single gender" thing, which is a very, very Barr thing to come up with.
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Apr 4, 2014 01:59
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bigbigtruck posted:Thanks for the book, Pick! It was good to meet you. Well definitely thanks for plugging WooHoo, Jak's been making a go of it and it's really helpful to get the extra support amidst her life of almost comical bad luck. e: Oh, also I know you were quite busy, but I do hope you had a chance to walk around. Even if Barr's work is a little odd, I absolutely respect her as a trailblazer and think it made it easier for people like me to enjoy risque hobbies without getting fired or blacklisted as I imagine I would have been in the 80s. Pick fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 02:04
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Heresiarch posted:It wasn't so much the dickgirl aspect as it was the "single gender" thing, which is a very, very Barr thing to come up with. The entire thing is 100% Barr as heck, but I thought it had a lot of legitimate artistic merit. Among other things, I like how the stories were primarily about something else but just in that context. Wangs everywhere, though! 
Pick fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 02:11
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I think anime has ruined me, I can't be surprised by single-gender stuff or dickgirls. Though I admit usually it's in the form of terrible scifi yuri that I thought incredibly deep when I was fourteen. The arthritis thing makes me sad whatever I think of Donna Barr's life works because rheumatoid arthritis was one of the contributing factors to my Granny's death last year Well, being incredibly overweight didn't help (though I suppose arthritis can contribute to that too). It is never a good thing.PS It is good to hear that otters are more or less safe. One more cute American animal that I can safely like. CROWS EVERYWHERE fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Apr 4, 2014 |
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Apr 4, 2014 02:28
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CROWS EVERYWHERE posted:The arthritis thing makes me sad whatever I think of Donna Barr's life works because rheumatoid arthritis was one of the contributing factors to my Granny's death last year It's actually kind of funny how fast you lose the really fine motor control. I'm only in my mid-20s and already I shake too much for the detail I did in highschool.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:32
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Pick posted:The entire thing is 100% Barr as heck, but I thought it had a lot of legitimate artistic merit. Among other things, I like how the stories were primarily about something else but just in that context. Wangs everywhere, though! I look at this and my  is totally bypassed and goes right to I need to quit something. It might be the internet, it might be the earth.
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Apr 4, 2014 02:36
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