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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:What makes you assume that it is even possible to "erase something from the public consciousness"? This has been tried over and over in many places throughout history and it's failed virtually every single time. Considering the fact that it largely ingrained into the public consciousness by colonialism there is nothing impossible about removing it.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:13
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computer parts posted:The idea of Caste is present among many cultures (including the West) and it is a complementary component to capitalism so I don't see why or how it would be erased in the near future.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:14
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down with slavery posted:You posted a thread called "What should be done about India" when you live in a country that has more than it's own fair share of problems and then proceeded to trumpet your ignorance when called out on it. No amount of D&D discussion will actually result in the US or any other western country doing anything "about" India. But that doesn't stop an interesting discussion about India's problems to be had. Nobody ITT is denying the massive amount of problems facing the US and the west in general. quote:Also fyi for as much hate as the "caste" system gets in this thread, America basically has the same thing, it just manifests itself in a different way. Humans are capital here too and it can be difficult or impossible to improve your social status due to reasons outside of your control.
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Mar 12, 2014 08:14
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down with slavery posted:Well, if we're going to start labeling cultures as "objectively wrong" the US seems like a great place to start.
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Mar 12, 2014 08:16
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down with slavery posted:Right over your head
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Mar 12, 2014 08:19
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quote:I don't sneer at the idea of educating women, it's just the one liner that "concerned" people throw out as a panacea to social ills/overpopulation and a host of other issues. The real answer for first worlders if they want to change the third world is to put pressure on our government to use its leverage to do something. If we want the legislators and judiciary in India to respect our cultural norms, we should use our economic leverage to do so. In fact, I'd argue that we should/could be doing this with a lot of other places than India. quote:But I think it's foolhardy and absurd to place the blame for India's situation at the feet of India. They simply do not control the global socioeconomic system they are forced to participate in to continue existing as a country. quote:I'm not trying to vomit on the thread Typo fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 18:30
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Thundercracker posted:Man, people were giving me grief when I suggested that "DO NOTHING" is the best thing we could ever do for India, but holy poo poo, you guys are demonstrating my point perfectly. quote:You know why doing nothing is the best thing for India? Because the kind of person who even posts a thread titled "What should be done about India?", and anyoen who seriously debates ideas in it are completely and utterly doomed to failure in even the theoritical stage, let alone any sort of on-the-ground implementation. D&D posters needs to get over the stage of their lives where discussing the problems of any non-white countries makes you a racist.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:43
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down with slavery posted:Refuse to do business with countries and corporations who take advantage of unjust labor laws. Force US corporations who operate there to hold themselves to the same safety, environmental and labor regulations if they want to bring the profits back home. Don't allow the West to take advantage of things like the caste system and economic inequality in India and instead use our leverage to change those things Countries US corporations operate in have their own laws which nominally do implement "safety, environmental, labor regulations". Except of course, due to corruption and lack of transparency, those laws are rarely or ineffectively enforced. Especially in rural areas (see gangrapes). Even if you pressure them into enacting new legislation to the effect of implementing labor regulations, you run into the same problem of enforcement. So really, how do you intend the US to start enforcing them? quote:You're a pretty lovely poster tbqh, maybe you should try reading my posts from the start before you get all up in arms. The only people who are making GBS threads on this thread are those like you who refuse to apply any nuance to the statement "India is a shithole". Go back to GBS. Seriously, try to find a post where I did that. Typo fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Mar 12, 2014 |
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Mar 12, 2014 18:55
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down with slavery posted:I never used the word racist but it's nice to see you already playing this card. I have no problem with discussing the issues India faces in the 21st century, but to label the country as "objectively bad" seems a bit extreme to me. Discussing problems doesn't make you an idiot, calling Indian culture "objectively bad" and saying we should pave the country do.
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Mar 12, 2014 18:56
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down with slavery posted:I've had this conversation many times in many threads but it would be quite easy for the US to place demands on developing countries that it does business with, and indeed we do. Only it's to ensure that our corporations can maximize their profits, not to ensure that we're living in an equitable society. The problem is that in practice this is going to mean making the national government pass new pieces of legislature or w/e. But really, in places like India or China even the central government in those countries themselves are often unable enforcing EXISTING labor/environmental regulations because of ineffective institutions or local authority resisting directives from the center. Or because of corruption, or occasionally because even the people themselves don't really want them. The US itself also have few, if any, means of enforcing labor standards externally themselves. Even if it starts cracking down domestic corporations accused of indecent labor standards, evading them is as trivial as creating subsidiaries outside US jurisdiction, or simply hand things over to native Indian firms along the supply chain. This idea is definitely well intended, just not very practical.
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Mar 12, 2014 19:14
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OwlBot 2000 posted:I think a similar intensive program of centralization, de-agrarianization and industrial capital formation is exactly what India needs, as well as very strong state to undermine and remove any traditional/religious power structures which negatively impact gender equality. There the similarities to any other leader end. The problem with from a social perspective is that by necessity the driver of this program is going to be a secularized, westernized elite which is disconnected from the general population. What this means is that once the first generation of charismatic leaders are dead and gone, there really isn't much appeal to the societal model they are proposing anymore. Even when nominal improvements to things like women's rights are made, such ideas rarely seep through society, even among the people they are purported to benefit. The old rituals of national liberation, holidays and ideas, starts to fade with every new generation. The failure of governments to deliver on what they promised starts to discredit their core ideology. Leaving two alternatives to young people: either religious conservatism or globalized consumerism and pop culture. The states founded by secular nationalists for the most part still stands today, having never realized the westernized vision their leaders set out for it. With a religious revival amongst the younger generation that comes as a complete surprise to the first generation of secular (hindutva in India, Islamists in the Middle East). The potential for religious revival might exist because the ruling elite never really engaged in a dialogue with its people over the issue of secularization. It seems to me (and correct me if I'm wrong obviously) that the ruling secular elite prefer to simply dismiss the opposing narrative. Note that this has being true in both democracies (India) or Dictatorships (Egypt). Inserting a Stalinist dictatorship does.....something, but it might too optimistic for it to get away without the sort of famines of the Stalinist era. I'd loath to turn this into another communistchat thread, but note that famines are pretty useful in getting rid of political opponents (Kulaks, landlords etc) in the countryside. And any dictatorship seeking to radically transform society is going to have a lot of those opponents. Not only that, but given its the 21st century, I'm really not sure if a Stalinesque dictatorship is viable. If you have time, this lecture is a pretty interesting discussion on the reversal of secularization after the 1970s in India, Algeria, and Israel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6rgWqwX0N0 Typo fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Mar 13, 2014 |
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Mar 13, 2014 01:24
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A Buttery Pastry posted:It's not like you need to point to Stalin for famines, or even famines being used as a political tool. India experienced both under the British.
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Mar 13, 2014 01:40
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Dusz posted:I think this is relevant because it's an important concept when discussing India.
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Mar 13, 2014 23:25
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Anarkii posted:Our higher education system is so far better than anything in US/Europe that such comments are ridiculous. Typo fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Mar 14, 2014 |
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Mar 14, 2014 18:32
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