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Favourite bit from the UK list (and I'd imagine to-be US) was Nirvana (band)
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Apr 1, 2014 10:43
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I've been wondering if 'The Winter Soldier' subtitle doesn't just refer to the Winter soldier himself, but also to Cap, who's a Winter Soldier much like the veterans who spoke out in the Winter Soldier investigation-a veteran who feels a need to speak out against the policies of his government. Does this make sense to anybody else, or is it just me?
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Apr 1, 2014 12:05
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Speaking of the montage at the end, can someone clarify for my dumb rear end: what was with the burnt-up soldier being bagged? As I'm typing this I realize it's probably Rumslaw or somesuch being shown as a confirmed kill, still felt a bit out of place. Also when I now see the trailer I'm annoyed they use the final shot of the movie, even though I didn't realize it at the time.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:06
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Yvonmukluk posted:I've been wondering if 'The Winter Soldier' subtitle doesn't just refer to the Winter soldier himself, but also to Cap, who's a Winter Soldier much like the veterans who spoke out in the Winter Soldier investigation-a veteran who feels a need to speak out against the policies of his government.
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Apr 1, 2014 14:22
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Yvonmukluk posted:Does this make sense to anybody else, or is it just me?
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Apr 1, 2014 15:29
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Charlz Guybon posted:Now Oldboy I can definitely see having resonance for Cap since his being frozen for 70 years could be considered analagous to the main character of Oldboy being locked away from society for years, but why would Rogers give a flying gently caress about Ji Su Park (soccer star). Should have Gangnam Style or something instead. Those things on his list are things other people recommended to Cap to check out, not what Cap thought would be interesting.
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Apr 1, 2014 20:24
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I always took The Winter Soldier to refer to a soldier who is out of place, and that certainly suits Rogers.
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Apr 1, 2014 20:50
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Away all Goats posted:Those things on his list are things other people recommended to Cap to check out, not what Cap thought would be interesting. I'm pretty sure Koreans are self aware enough to understand that he's not going to care about Ji Su Park. The average Korean are certainly much more likely to bring up music in a casual conversation than sports. On another note, how can Black Widow be an ex-Soveit agent if she was born in 1984? Was she shanking dudes at age 6?
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Apr 2, 2014 00:29
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Same way Frank Castle is probably somewhere in his 40s but served in Nam. "Magic."
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Apr 2, 2014 01:14
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I read some comics from 1960 something and Black Widow is a full grown woman in them. HOW OLD IS SHE???
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Apr 2, 2014 01:34
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Arnim Zola's appearance in this movie is both less ridiculous than in the comics and yet still completely nuts in a way typical of comic books (or 1950s scifi). Regarding the midcredits scene, did anyone else think of River Tam when they saw Scarlet Witch? I mean, Whedon did direct it after all. Slaapaav posted:I read some comics from 1960 something and Black Widow is a full grown woman in them. HOW OLD IS SHE??? DeathChicken posted:Same way Frank Castle is probably somewhere in his 40s but served in Nam. "Magic."
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Apr 2, 2014 02:29
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Slaapaav posted:I read some comics from 1960 something and Black Widow is a full grown woman in them. HOW OLD IS SHE??? Yeah, but they explicitly said in this movie that she was born in 1984 and they say she worked for the KGB. Unless the USSR hung on for another ten years in this timeline than it doesn't add up.
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Apr 2, 2014 02:34
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The MSJ posted:
I know that in MAX he's actually in his 50s or 60s, and his life is the depressing ruin you'd expect it to be.
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Apr 2, 2014 03:20
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Charlz Guybon posted:Yeah, but they explicitly said in this movie that she was born in 1984 and they say she worked for the KGB. Unless the USSR hung on for another ten years in this timeline than it doesn't add up. That's a big part of what I was wondering- if the information that was being used as the base for the 1984 DOB was just part of her cover, and that the big finale now had all her actual info out in the open. Am just really curious how much they follow the usual Widow story which is that she's nearly the same age as Cap (maybe even actually trained with/under the Winter Soldier too) and has just been keeping it all a much better secret. As has been pointed out though, would be really odd if that 1984 date wasn't incorrect or a red herring, as the Adventures of Teen ScarJo as a KGB agent might not be the blockbuster hit Disney envisions...
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Apr 2, 2014 03:38
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Charlz Guybon posted:Yeah, but they explicitly said in this movie that she was born in 1984 and they say she worked for the KGB. Unless the USSR hung on for another ten years in this timeline than it doesn't add up. Does anyone have any action figure packaging or concept art that could shed some light on this?
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Apr 2, 2014 03:38
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FelixReynolds posted:That's a big part of what I was wondering- if the information that was being used as the base for the 1984 DOB was just part of her cover, and that the big finale now had all her actual info out in the open. Am just really curious how much they follow the usual Widow story which is that she's nearly the same age as Cap (maybe even actually trained with/under the Winter Soldier too) and has just been keeping it all a much better secret. Teen ScarJo? She was seven when the USSR fell if that birth date is right.
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Apr 2, 2014 05:18
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Speaking of characters' ages, how old was Howard Stark when he had his son? He must have been a little on the old side. I think Marvel ought to have made the guy in Captain America 1 Tony's grandfather.
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Apr 2, 2014 05:48
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I am generally okay with the Marvel films treating the period between WWII and present day as flexible. Infant KGB agent is kind of stretching it though. Something I haven't seen discussed is the score. I really enjoyed how menacing it was and the little stings that were dropped in whenever the Winter Soldier was on screen. Is the Winter Soldier's hair-curtains-and-stubble combo what he looks like in the comics? It kept reminding me of Matt Berry, who would have brought something very different to the role:  Really enjoyed the film overall, particularly how the tone started off Bourne Identity, then sailed clean through James Bond and wound up somewhere in Metal Gear. It was interrupted partway through for a fire alarm which we were only told was a false one once we'd trooped out of the building, but that fit quite well with a film that was about generating distrust of officialdom and an air of paranoia. 
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Apr 2, 2014 07:53
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Junkenstein posted:Favourite bit from the UK list (and I'd imagine to-be US) was Nirvana (band) Ah, but which one?
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Apr 2, 2014 08:10
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Party Boat posted:Is the Winter Soldier's hair-curtains-and-stubble combo what he looks like in the comics? It kept reminding me of Matt Berry, who would have brought something very different to the role: This is how he usually looks: 
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Apr 2, 2014 08:17
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DeathChicken posted:Same way Frank Castle is probably somewhere in his 40s but served in Nam. "Magic." Black Widow has pretty much the same forumla in her that keeps Fury young she's actually in her 80s. Punisher is literally an Angel of Death who has been reborn multiple times. Because comics. Charlz Guybon posted:Yeah, but they explicitly said in this movie that she was born in 1984 and they say she worked for the KGB. Unless the USSR hung on for another ten years in this timeline than it doesn't add up. None of it makes sense. It's the same way that Bucky has an Russian Star on his shoulder because he's the "Winter Solider" and Russia's ultimate weapon during the Cold War (in the comics) but in the film Natasha says that she fought against him when realistically she should have been fighting with him. Baron Bifford posted:Speaking of characters' ages, how old was Howard Stark when he had his son? He must have been a little on the old side. I think Marvel ought to have made the guy in Captain America 1 Tony's grandfather. Despite that the film decides that Howard Stark died when he still looked like Dominic Cooper Iron Man 2 shows that he lived for years later and grew up to be John Slattery before he had Tony.
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Apr 2, 2014 08:32
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Waterhaul posted:Black Widow has pretty much the same forumla in her that keeps Fury young she's actually in her 80s. Punisher is literally an Angel of Death who has been reborn multiple times. Because comics. That would depend on when she defected though and also assumes there weren't clashing factions within the Soviet Union.
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Apr 2, 2014 09:28
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Charlz Guybon posted:That would depend on when she defected though and also assumes there weren't clashing factions within the Soviet Union. My point was Bucky doesn't work for the Soviet Union in the films but still has a Soviet Star on him because that's what he looks like in the comics. Hydra are never shown to have any connections to Russia in the film and SHIELD seem to be strictly a US organisation corrupted by Zola and other Super Nazi's
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Apr 2, 2014 09:35
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Waterhaul posted:None of it makes sense. It's the same way that Bucky has an Russian Star on his shoulder because he's the "Winter Solider" and Russia's ultimate weapon during the Cold War (in the comics) but in the film Natasha says that she fought against him when realistically she should have been fighting with him. I dunno, she talking about weapons from the USSR would be the same if someone talked about the use of V2s from Nazi Germany: leftover stuff that could still be used today. And she would know about that because while the USSR ended when she was 7, doesn't mean the KGB did end too at that time, it could've have gone on for some more years, under a different name. Just like Hydra. Waterhaul posted:Despite that the film decides that Howard Stark died when he still looked like Dominic Cooper Iron Man 2 shows that he lived for years later and grew up to be John Slattery before he had Tony. I think that was all Zola. He showed the newspaper headlines, then the photo of the young Howard Stark. Which makes sense, because Cap would be more familiar with that one than his older version. Waterhaul posted:My point was Bucky doesn't work for the Soviet Union in the films but still has a Soviet Star on him because that's what he looks like in the comics. Hydra are never shown to have any connections to Russia in the film and SHIELD seem to be strictly a US organisation corrupted by Zola and other Super Nazi's In the film he's found by a soviet soldier. The montage is kinda confusing, but the intention was to show that it was the soviets who amputated/gave him the metal arm, then he was acquired by Hydra to be their assassin. Edit: And let's be fair: SHIELD and the U.S. might had a lot of power, but they alone couldn't have stirred all that chaos worldwide. Fury even says at the end that there's still Hydra cells in Europe. Kal-L fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Apr 2, 2014 |
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Apr 2, 2014 09:40
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edit: ^^^ What he said. ^^^Waterhaul posted:My point was Bucky doesn't work for the Soviet Union in the films but still has a Soviet Star on him because that's what he looks like in the comics. Hydra are never shown to have any connections to Russia in the film and SHIELD seem to be strictly a US organisation corrupted by Zola and other Super Nazi's I think the flashback showed that Russians found Bucky after he fell off the train. It's possible that Hydra acquired him some time during the Cold War. If they infiltrated SHIELD, they might have agents within the Soviet Union as well.
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Apr 2, 2014 09:43
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Party Boat posted:It was interrupted partway through for a fire alarm which we were only told was a false one once we'd trooped out of the building, but that fit quite well with a film that was about generating distrust of officialdom and an air of paranoia. drat, reminds me of seeing the 2005 War of the Worlds in the theatre only for a giant thunderstorm to cause the power to go out partway through the lightning storm scene in the movie. Needless to say, that was one hell of a memorable movie-going experience.
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Apr 2, 2014 09:49
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Kal-L posted:
That part just seems weird then. Russia got this ultimate solider who is able to kill anything, until the film happens, they give him a metal arm and then just sell him off to Hydra with a note of "please remember to continually freeze and mindwipe him to keep him under your control". I get what you're saying but everything about Hydra in the film just seems ridiculously over complicated and messy. Though to be fair I also think Johansson is a terrible Black Widow and hate the stuff they do with the character.
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Apr 2, 2014 10:01
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davidspackage posted:Speaking of the montage at the end, can someone clarify for my dumb rear end: what was with the burnt-up soldier being bagged? As I'm typing this I realize it's probably Rumslaw or somesuch being shown as a confirmed kill, still felt a bit out of place. He's a villain in Cap comics, had to google though, but what we saw was his origin
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Apr 2, 2014 10:07
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There's a mild reference to the Winter Soldier's Russian origins in the comics when Natasha tells Cap that she got some info regarding Bucky's possible whereabouts out of Kiev, which, as recent world events should have likely taught anyone by this point, was once part of the Soviet Union and all.
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Apr 2, 2014 10:27
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Rumlow had a cross of braces when he pulled off his jacket to fight Falcon. That was a big signpost, tbf, and when you saw he was alive at the end it was basically a Neon sign saying "BIRTH OF AN ENEMY". Also, can I just say that Robert Redford was a very class act in this movie. Wish they'd chosen Hunter as Cap's partner in this movie though. I could look at Scarlett all day long but the writers seem determined to make her into some sort of punny sidekick then bring in a heavy moment for her which fails because she spent the last 90 mins making poo poo jokes. The Freedom vs Fear point was broad strokes but a good one I thought - it intertwined with Cap's obvious doubt about the goodness of his actions for SHIELD. speaking of, they seem to have pitched Captain America really well in his movies. I'm normally really sensitive to American patriotic syrupy nonsense but with Cap I find it strangely tolerable.
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Apr 2, 2014 10:28
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I don't think the red star needs spoilering as it's on the posters, but you're all missing the real point of it. The Winter Soldier has a red star on a silver background on his left shoulder. Cap has a silver star on a red background on his right shoulder. It's a symbol of how the two men are equal and opposite.
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Apr 2, 2014 11:29
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Well, the notebook of stuff was quite different for Australia! AC/DC Steve Irwin Skippy the Bush Kangaroo I think one other as well Loved it. Wasnt actually expecting something that well done but the Pahse II movies have all been great I really thought Pierce was going to be revealed to be the Red Skull for a bit there. Armin Zola tho, that was fantastic - and of course he aint gone for sure. And we did see the origin of Crossbones too?
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Apr 2, 2014 13:13
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Waterhaul posted:That part just seems weird then. Russia got this ultimate solider who is able to kill anything, until the film happens, they give him a metal arm and then just sell him off to Hydra with a note of "please remember to continually freeze and mindwipe him to keep him under your control". I get what you're saying but everything about Hydra in the film just seems ridiculously over complicated and messy. Though to be fair I also think Johansson is a terrible Black Widow and hate the stuff they do with the character. Saw the movie a 2nd time and she said she fought the winter soldier five years ago. Presumably she was with SHIELD by then.
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Apr 2, 2014 15:25
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Another thing I just thought of. Zola knew about Fury's death, so he's got to have had access to the internet. He's definitely got backups out there. I wonder if he'll be involved in the origin of Ultron here?
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Apr 3, 2014 00:30
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I don't know about you guys, but I think the mid-credits scene might be an Insane Clown Posse song reference.
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Apr 3, 2014 02:57
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Yvonmukluk posted:I've been wondering if 'The Winter Soldier' subtitle doesn't just refer to the Winter soldier himself, but also to Cap, who's a Winter Soldier much like the veterans who spoke out in the Winter Soldier investigation-a veteran who feels a need to speak out against the policies of his government. Those hearings were so named as a play on words (Summertime soldiers and Sunshine Patriots) so the idea of transparency is definitely involved. The idea is that a summertime soldier and sunshine patriot will only fight provided the going is relatively easy. They won't stick around when poo poo hits the fan. Enter the Winter Soldier, who refused to desert at Valley Forge despite being absolutely destroyed by a mini ice age, because they were fighting for more than a paycheck. They were fighting for ideals and the hope of living in a nation without tyranny. So, Cap is a Winter Soldier. He doesn't just stick around when there's a clear dichotomy, and we're obviously the "good guys" and they the bad. He's the avatar of the idea of America, rather than what it actually is and represents, and when that America no longer aligns with what it should be or hoped to be, he'll fight that battle, too. That's basically been his struggle from the beginning. The America of today, to him, has morphed into some kind of monster, and he won't stop fighting that monster in the hopes that perhaps one day it'll revert back to its former self; a self, mind you, that probably never actually existed, and never will. Xeremides fucked around with this message at 10:01 on Apr 3, 2014 |
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Apr 3, 2014 07:53
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Xeremides posted:He's the avatar of the idea of America, rather than what it actually is and represents, and when what America is no longer aligns with what it should be or hoped to be, he'll fight that battle, too. That's basically been his struggle from the beginning. The America of today, to him, has morphed into some kind of monster, and he won't stop fighting that monster in the hopes that perhaps one day it'll revert back to its former self; a self, mind you, that probably never actually existed, and never will.
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Apr 3, 2014 09:23
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Baron Bifford posted:This sounds more like Captain Republican to me. Only because Republicans have co-opted that image of America, despite not believing in it at all (or ever).
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Apr 3, 2014 10:06
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Waterhaul posted:That part just seems weird then. Russia got this ultimate solider who is able to kill anything, until the film happens, they give him a metal arm and then just sell him off to Hydra with a note of "please remember to continually freeze and mindwipe him to keep him under your control". I get what you're saying but everything about Hydra in the film just seems ridiculously over complicated and messy. Though to be fair I also think Johansson is a terrible Black Widow and hate the stuff they do with the character. It doesn't seem that odd to me. Both the US and USSR both grabbed as many ex-nazi scientists as they could once the war ended, so it makes sense some former Hydra folks got shuffled into the Soviet camp and began working their agenda too. So they could already have had people in place. And even if Hydra didn't have direct control over the Winter Soldier, considering the chaos that came about during the fall of the Soviet Union, who's to saw some greedy ex-KGB type didn't sell off a bunch of gear the new government didn't know about to get rich. I mean, Lukin did that exact thing in the comics. Jedit posted:Only because Republicans have co-opted that image of America, despite not believing in it at all (or ever). Hey, the Civil War-era Republicans believed in that sought of thing.
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Apr 3, 2014 11:40
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Desperado Bones posted:Also, here in Mexico we had our own Cap's list of things to do/see: Diego Rivera and Shakira(What in the gently caress?) were the only things I had the chance to read 
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