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Xeremides
Feb 21, 2011

There Diomedes aimed and stabbed, he gouged him down
his glistening flesh and wrenched the spear back out
and the brazen god of war let loose a shriek, roaring,
thundering loud as nine, ten thousand combat soldiers
shriek with Ares' fury when massive armies clash.

Yvonmukluk posted:

Hey, the Civil War-era Republicans believed in that sought of thing.

And then the Republicans became the Democrats, and the Southern Democrats took over the Republican party.

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aBagorn
Aug 26, 2004

Toplowtech posted:

France got The Fifth Element :france:

France owns. I would love to see Cap's reaction to this.

Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

Toplowtech posted:

France got the 1998 soccer world cup, The Fifth Element, Coluche and Louis de Funes. :france:
Why would an American living in America get recommended French pop culture by fellow Americans? I wonder what the Chinese list looks like.

The MSJ
May 17, 2010

Baron Bifford posted:

Why would an American living in America get recommended French pop culture by fellow Americans? I wonder what the Chinese list looks like.

Probably not going to find Tienanmen Square on that list. "Nanking" probably is, though.

Now I want to know the Japanese list as well.

aBagorn posted:

France owns. I would love to see Cap's reaction to this.

It would certainly prepare him for meeting the Guardians of The Galaxy characters, and maybe Avengers 3 in general.

Crappy Jack
Nov 21, 2005

We got some serious shit to discuss.

The MSJ posted:

It would certainly prepare him for meeting the Guardians of The Galaxy characters, and maybe Avengers 3 in general.

That scene where she gets like the entirety of Earth culture beamed into her brain in a few seconds would probably just bum Cap out.

Reveilled
Apr 19, 2007

Take up your rifles

The MSJ posted:

Probably not going to find Tienanmen Square on that list. "Nanking" probably is, though.

I doubt Captain America needs to catch up on things that happened in 1937. He was there.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Baron Bifford posted:

This sounds more like Captain Republican to me.

I don't see how it aligns with either modern political parties.

Xeremides
Feb 21, 2011

There Diomedes aimed and stabbed, he gouged him down
his glistening flesh and wrenched the spear back out
and the brazen god of war let loose a shriek, roaring,
thundering loud as nine, ten thousand combat soldiers
shriek with Ares' fury when massive armies clash.

Reveilled posted:

I doubt Captain America needs to catch up on things that happened in 1937. He was there.

I don't know that your every day Westerner had a grasp of what went on there until after the war.

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Xeremides posted:

I don't know that your every day Westerner had a grasp of what went on there until after the war.

He wasn't your everyday Westerner. Though the point is taken that he would at best have a strategic idea of what was going on with the Axis and Hydra in Europe.

Sir Nose
Mar 28, 2009


My 12 year old has decided that she's now interested in superhero movies and wants to see Cap 2. She hasn't seen any of the MCU movies yet. We'll work our way through them all eventually, but which ones should I show her now, to bring her up to speed for Cap 2? Obviously Cap 1, I'm guessing she doesn't need to see Incredible Hulk at this point... What about Avengers or the Iron Man films? Etc.

Also, does 3D honestly add anything to this one, or is 2D fine?

Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!
Captain America 1 is all she really needs. It will help her appreciate who Captain America and HYDRA are.

The MSJ posted:

Probably not going to find Tienanmen Square on that list. "Nanking" probably is, though.
:what:

Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004

Sir Nose posted:

My 12 year old has decided that she's now interested in superhero movies and wants to see Cap 2. She hasn't seen any of the MCU movies yet. We'll work our way through them all eventually, but which ones should I show her now, to bring her up to speed for Cap 2? Obviously Cap 1, I'm guessing she doesn't need to see Incredible Hulk at this point... What about Avengers or the Iron Man films? Etc.

Also, does 3D honestly add anything to this one, or is 2D fine?
The Cap 1 and Avengers should be enough. The first Ironman before the Avengers if you really want. Also if you don't mind a short direct-to-video movie, Agent Carter is a good one-shoot short movie from Marvel.

Astro Nut
Feb 22, 2013

Nonsensical Space Powers, Activate! Form of Friendship!

Sir Nose posted:

My 12 year old has decided that she's now interested in superhero movies and wants to see Cap 2. She hasn't seen any of the MCU movies yet. We'll work our way through them all eventually, but which ones should I show her now, to bring her up to speed for Cap 2? Obviously Cap 1, I'm guessing she doesn't need to see Incredible Hulk at this point... What about Avengers or the Iron Man films? Etc.

Also, does 3D honestly add anything to this one, or is 2D fine?

Iron Man 2 will help you appreciate certain developments in the plot, though they're more minor points.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Sir Nose posted:

My 12 year old has decided that she's now interested in superhero movies and wants to see Cap 2. She hasn't seen any of the MCU movies yet. We'll work our way through them all eventually, but which ones should I show her now, to bring her up to speed for Cap 2? Obviously Cap 1, I'm guessing she doesn't need to see Incredible Hulk at this point... What about Avengers or the Iron Man films? Etc.

Also, does 3D honestly add anything to this one, or is 2D fine?

Cap 1, IM2(Black Widow introduction), and Avengers

Mouser..
Apr 1, 2010

Just finished watching it in IMAX 3D. I wouldn't recommend spending the extra cash. It wasn't unwatchable because of shaky cam but it certainly wasn't enhanced in 3D from it. As for the movie, it's less ridiculous than Captain America:The First Avenger and wholly more satisfying. Still after the first hour I was constantly going back and forth saying "This movie is loving ludicrous" and "Man, this movie is awesome". All in all it truly is one of the better Marvel movies in recent years though.

Yawgmoft
Nov 15, 2004
Is it just me, or did Cap basically send a lot of people to their deaths for no gain? "HYDRA is here, stay down" was all well and good, but everyone that chose to try and fight back died for no reason. Guards got shot, crews got mowed down, and the pilot brigade all got wiped out and none of them accomplished anything. Seems like a pretty bad call on Cap's part.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

Yawgmoft posted:

Is it just me, or did Cap basically send a lot of people to their deaths for no gain? "HYDRA is here, stay down" was all well and good, but everyone that chose to try and fight back died for no reason. Guards got shot, crews got mowed down, and the pilot brigade all got wiped out and none of them accomplished anything. Seems like a pretty bad call on Cap's part.

All the enemies who had to spend time fighting loyal shield members were enemies who were not trying to stop Cap, Falcon, Black Widow and Agent Hill. The last was especially vulnerable. It was a good diversion of enemy resources.

Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Apr 4, 2014

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

One question I have, watching the movie, the action seemed pretty jittery throughout and hard to see, was this how the movie was, or was this my theater? My theater is pretty bad, so I'm willing to believe this wasn't the films fault.

Rough Lobster
May 27, 2009

Don't be such a squid, bro
Wow, this movie was loving great. If you're on the fence: see it.

BlackJosh
Sep 25, 2007

Yawgmoft posted:

Is it just me, or did Cap basically send a lot of people to their deaths for no gain? "HYDRA is here, stay down" was all well and good, but everyone that chose to try and fight back died for no reason. Guards got shot, crews got mowed down, and the pilot brigade all got wiped out and none of them accomplished anything. Seems like a pretty bad call on Cap's part.

They definitely died for a very good reason, to buy Cap and company time to stop the Hydra "kill all the fuckers" mission and they were able to make these choices with all the cards more or less on the the table. Cap gave them the information and trusted on the people to do the right thing. I liked it a lot and it was very Steve Rogers Captain America thing to do. I like that they really were able to make Steve an interesting character while not straying from his basic super goodness, humility and decency. The kinda one note upstanding guy can be hard to pull off and I think Chris Evans and Marvel have done it very well.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Rough Lobster posted:

Wow, this movie was loving great. If you're on the fence: see it.

I saw it, and I'm on the fence....

I really liked it...but it was more grounded then I thought it would be. I guess I've enjoyed how weird these last few Marvel films have been with fire breathing flame people, aliens, space elves, ect...it feels exactly like it should. That being said, I want to give it another go. I think I had a hopeful idea of where it would go, but it didn't so it was disappointing. Another viewing should help me appreciate what it was trying to do. That, and the unwatchable action which I'm pretty convinced, listening/reading other reviews that it was totally my theaters fault.

But no part of me hated it or anything. I just wanted more of something like the Zola reveal. Loved that so much.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

I liked how plain it was, especially in the cinematography.
The big shootout scenes (other than the helicarrier stuff) just looked like people went out with cameras on dreary overcast days to blow up cars.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

CelticPredator posted:

Marvel films have been with fire breathing flame people,

Another viewing should help me appreciate what it was trying to do. That, and the unwatchable action

Flame people? Am I forgetting something obvious?


I'm not sure if it was the theater. The action was very frenetic with a lot of quick cuts. I loved it, but I understand if not everyone likes that style.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

From Iron Man 3. The Extremis guys.

But I don't think it was the style. I'm watching clips, and when I say the action was unwatchable, I mean that. It looked like someone cranked the shutter speed way the gently caress up, and darkened the entire screen. It was bad. And I think that's why this movie felt kinda "eh" to me. I enjoyed everything but the action sequences, and I'm pretty sure it was because my theater sucks. I've seen every Marvel film there day 1 since Iron Man...but this was the last one. gently caress that place. It's garbage.

I'll try and see it at IMAX tomorrow night.

turtlecrunch
May 14, 2013

Hesitation is defeat.
Saw the double-feature tonight, loved the "plain" aspect of it (as Teenage Fansub puts it). Was really enhanced by watching Cap1 first (and that movie is also a lot of fun even if Hugo Weaving's makeup is beyond terrible). Cap/Nat make a really great on-screen team due to the differences in their personalities and yet the occasional common ground (casual chatting on the battlefield). The action was great, clear and visceral, and Cap/Nat have really unique fighting styles that are put out to their own advantages here.

I disliked that everyone who isn't Cap seems to get up from their injuries with no real issue, which is very Hollywood but not in keeping with the idea that Cap is a "perfect soldier"...he's the only one who ever seems to be in any pain at all!

I disliked one really stupid scene where the Hydra scientist captured by Cap&Co has been uploaded into a 1950s computer for some reason, makes a flimsy exposition dump about how SHIELD is Hydra now, then allows himself to die to a missile because HEIL HYDRA :shepface:. Not just a sloppy exposition but also a bad rendition of the character, who in Cap1 was perhaps the most skeptical member of Hydra.

I disliked one really stupid line of dialogue from Nick Fury (Lady: "Give me four hours." Fury: "You have three!" STOP DOING THIS HOLLYWOOD WHY).

The latter two points are very minor issues imo. I also went in thinking I would hate Falcon but I ended up wanting a pair of my own wings.

I have no idea what is going on in the post-credits scenes but that doesn't affect my interpretation of the movie, which is that it is very good and a lot of fun.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

That scene you find silly actually is pretty accurate to the character. I'm no comics guy, but I know what that is supposed to be, and couldn't figure out how they were going to do it. That was my favorite thing in the movie. Really clever way to pull that off, I thought.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

turtlecrunch posted:

I disliked that everyone who isn't Cap seems to get up from their injuries with no real issue, which is very Hollywood but not in keeping with the idea that Cap is a "perfect soldier"...he's the only one who ever seems to be in any pain at all!


Fury and Natasha both get shot and almost die. Tons of loyal Shield members are killed.

turtlecrunch
May 14, 2013

Hesitation is defeat.

Charlz Guybon posted:

Fury and Natasha both get shot and almost die. Tons of loyal Shield members are killed.

Natasha seems to have no problem kung-fuing a bunch of people in her old lady disguise about 30 minutes after she's shot. Falcon falls 30-40 feet out of a building, through a helicopter hard enough to knock one of the doors out, and is completely fine. Meanwhile Cap has a hard time getting up after taking a fall, gets knocked unconscious after being thrown into a bus, and is barely able to move after he gets shot in the stomach. The best example of his super-humanity was when the missile hit and he was groaning but up and about, while Natasha was unconscious, the second-best was that he was eventually able to get up and do Cap stuff after he was shot. However, he then passed out again after getting punched a few times by WS's metal arm. I think all the Cap stuff was fine and Chris Evans was great. But Fury surviving getting blown up, rolled over in his car and shot a couple times, Nat kung-fuing, and Falcon defying gravity (nyuck) are the main things I am thinking of as pretty superheroic when those people aren't actual superheroes.

ShoogaSlim
May 22, 2001
Probation
Can't post for 9 hours!
I was seriously disappointed with the first Captain America so I was reluctant to see this but my usual movie-going buddy insisted.

I have to say I enjoyed the hell out of this. Everything was just satisfying; the action, the characters, the conflict, etc. The corny comic book humor was even genuinely funny in certain spots as well. TWS is a great villain and feels like a believable threat to Captain America.

Really pleasantly pleased with how this turned out and looking forward to more Marvel stuff coming up.

Some obvious hardcore comic fans were audibly excited about the character reveal mid credits. I know who the characters are but I'm confused as to what role they're going to play in future films or why they're a big deal. Someone care to fill me in?

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013
🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

They're going to be in The Avengers. That's pretty much all we(I?) know at this point.

The MSJ
May 17, 2010

turtlecrunch posted:

I disliked one really stupid scene where the Hydra scientist captured by Cap&Co has been uploaded into a 1950s computer for some reason, makes a flimsy exposition dump about how SHIELD is Hydra now, then allows himself to die to a missile because HEIL HYDRA :shepface:. Not just a sloppy exposition but also a bad rendition of the character, who in Cap1 was perhaps the most skeptical member of Hydra.

He sacrificed himself in an effort to kill Steve and Natasha, the biggest threat to their operations now that they thought Fury is dead. Zola had done his job at that point, so he probably thinks that it was his final contribution to Hydra. He also looks like this in the comics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnim_Zola

ExplodingSquid
Aug 11, 2008

So there's a part of the movie where they mention a couple of names...

They mention a watch list with Bruce Banner Stephen Strange, but was there a 3rd name mentioned or just the 2.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

turtlecrunch posted:

The best example of his super-humanity was when the missile hit and he was groaning but up and about, while Natasha was unconscious, the second-best was that he was eventually able to get up and do Cap stuff after he was shot. However, he then passed out again after getting punched a few times by WS's metal arm. I think all the Cap stuff was fine and Chris Evans was great.\
How about when he jumped out of the elevator and fell at least 20 stories on to pavement. He got a pretty incredolous "Are you kidding me!" from Jasper after he got up and trotted off.

Waterhaul
Nov 5, 2005


it was a nice post,
you shouldn't have signed it.



Teenage Fansub posted:

I liked how plain it was, especially in the cinematography.
The big shootout scenes (other than the helicarrier stuff) just looked like people went out with cameras on dreary overcast days to blow up cars.

This was actually the thing I hated most about the film. Everything was just so boring and grey.

ShoogaSlim posted:


Some obvious hardcore comic fans were audibly excited about the character reveal mid credits. I know who the characters are but I'm confused as to what role they're going to play in future films or why they're a big deal. Someone care to fill me in?

They are just new Avengers with new powers is all, possibly to replace actors like Downey Jr, Evans and Hemsworth who are only hanging around for another 2/3 films.

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon

Nap Ghost
I thought the film was really entertaining. I likes it.

Charlz Guybon
Nov 16, 2010

The MSJ posted:

He sacrificed himself in an effort to kill Steve and Natasha, the biggest threat to their operations now that they thought Fury is dead. Zola had done his job at that point, so he probably thinks that it was his final contribution to Hydra. He also looks like this in the comics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnim_Zola

He probably has a backup somewhere. How would he know Fury is "dead" if he didn't have access to the internet?

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
Just saw it, and will give the customary "Marvel does it again" post. This is definitely going on my rewatch list.

I wouldn't say that Cap 2 isn't a political film, because that stuff is in here and they do attempt to explore it. But I'd say that the big ol' themes and politics of it all step aside to make way for the human drama, the smaller scale, the intimate looks at the men and women inside this outrageous universe. The Big Themes are there to service the characters, not the other way around. It's a bit like the inverse Nolan Batmans, in that sense.

(obligatorily: yeah yeah I liked Nolan's Batmans)

Cap 2 does explore some questions of morality and ethics and I'm sure there will be many longwinded paragraphs written about that stuff at some point, but TWW is far less interested in having Big Fascist Villain's ideologies make total ironclad sense than it is in showing us how various characters — heroes, villains, minions on both sides of the equation — react in the face of that conflict. In the end, it really is about Steve, and Natasha, and Nick Fury, and Sam, and even Sharon and that random SHIELD I.T. guy that stood up to Crossbones. The film is interested in their moments, not in Sociology 101. And I'm running out of ways to say that the reason Marvel's movies are the best Marvel movies is because of how well they humanize their already-incredibly-human characters

If I had to nitpick one thing, it would be that the Winter Soldier himself felt less developed compared to most of the other things going on. I mean, we get the broad strokes, but not much else other than broad strokes. The truth is that I may have built up too much anticipation for him in my own head; Ed Brubaker’s whole arc about Bucky was just so fantastic and nuanced that what we get here just doesn't really hold up. It does bode well for future installments, though.

Oh, and I'm not ashamed to admit I cried like a wounded animal through that Peggy scene. :gonk:

ShoogaSlim
May 22, 2001
Probation
Can't post for 9 hours!
Not only did the whole beginning action scene feel a lot like MGS2 to me, the whole political motif reminded me a lot of the underlying themes present in the entire Metal Gear Solid series.

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon

Nap Ghost
I really liked that besides Captain America we also had three women, and two black supporting characters...and the Terrorists weren't Arab/Brown/Korean!? WHAAAA?

She might not be an ideal widow, but screw it, give Scar Jo her Widow movie. She was great. So was Smulders and Sharon? And Anthony Mackie too. I saw the preview for Lucy and liked it as stupid as the 10% of the brains things is OMG 100% and let's warp reality!

Like, I don't think Hill, Sharon, Natasha and Fury or Sam displayed any sort of stereotypes or poo poo that other movies would do. They felt like solid characters if a bit one note at times. The performances were great.

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Vishass
Feb 1, 2004

Kind of wish the post credits scene was Hawkeye sitting on his couch with pizza dog watching all the Buffy the vampire slayer DVDs and we pan over to his answering machine and it has like 50 missed calls

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