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moths posted:As someone who doesn't watch Agents of SHIELD, is there any material I'll be missing out on? Hahahahahaha. No.
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Apr 5, 2014 01:37
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pizzaman5000 posted:If I recall correctly, the location was Iowa (I probably didn't recall that correctly) Iowa City actually, which got a surprised cheer out of the Iowa City movie theater I saw the film in.
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Apr 5, 2014 01:55
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ShoogaSlim posted:Not only did the whole beginning action scene feel a lot like MGS2 to me, the whole political motif reminded me a lot of the underlying themes present in the entire Metal Gear Solid series. I'm glad I'm not the only person that thought this. Cap was doing a fantastic Snake impersonation during that tanker infiltration.
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Apr 5, 2014 02:03
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S-Alpha posted:In terms of visuals, I don't consider IMAX 3D to be any better than the normal (and I personally hate 3D in any form), but the reason I go to IMAX is because the sound is so much better. Every punch, every crash, all of it actually shakes the theater, and it's such a satisfying experience. A perfect example was the roar in the Godzilla trailer before the movie, which was perfect with the powerful sound system. And the larger screen is a plus too. ShoogaSlim posted:Not only did the whole beginning action scene feel a lot like MGS2 to me, the whole political motif reminded me a lot of the underlying themes present in the entire Metal Gear Solid series. Acquilae fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Apr 5, 2014 |
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Apr 5, 2014 02:07
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moths posted:As someone who doesn't watch Agents of SHIELD, is there any material I'll be missing out on? From glancing at the AoS thread, Sitwell's in the show. Anyway, the rewatch helped. I love this flick! It's badass! It's not my favorite though. I prefer the goofy, more comedy based ones like Iron Man 3 and The Avengers, but this was still pretty great. Nice to actually see the action too.
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Apr 5, 2014 02:11
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moths posted:As someone who doesn't watch Agents of SHIELD, is there any material I'll be missing out on? Jasper Sitwell is a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent who plays a minor role in the movie's plot. He's popped up a handful of times on AoS this season as a dickish superior officer trying to keep Coulson under control. That's about it.
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Apr 5, 2014 02:11
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Well, guess they can't do a Secret War movie now, because that was basically this movie with Nazis instead of Skrulls. I thought it was pretty good, though black ops, political coups and drone strikes being literal Nazi plots came off a bit heavy-handed (and that's saying something coming from me). Still, it distracted me enough that I almost didn't even care that Captain America was in his own movie; hell, "Winter Soldier" could have been dropped for something else, he felt so tangential to the movie, practically a B-plot. Maybe I'm just jaded to someone as morally simplistic and incorruptible as Cap, who I'll pay to see kick-punching things dressed like an idiot but won't use for internalizing political messages. He's sort of a more tragic, more relatable Batman.
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Apr 5, 2014 02:13
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Cap has always been political in the comics. He was portrayed as being against the McCarthy-era anti-Communist paranoia as soon as he was thawed. One storyline had Nixon as the villain (even though he was revealed to be a fake Nixon, I think) and he was disillusioned with American government more than once.
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Apr 5, 2014 02:34
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Also, count me in as another person who dug the score. I was a bit hesitant to like it, but now I warmed up to the more subtle approach. Still prefer Silvestri's theme. But I unabashedly love almost everything he does.
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Apr 5, 2014 02:44
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The MSJ posted:Cap has always been political in the comics. He was portrayed as being against the McCarthy-era anti-Communist paranoia as soon as he was thawed. One storyline had Nixon as the villain (even though he was revealed to be a fake Nixon, I think) and he was disillusioned with American government more than once. That much I know from reading said comics, but so far his cinematic appearances have been confined to a 40's pulp action adventure, a modern action mashup, and this. The only stances he's taken are anti-spy and anti-Nazi, the former of which was just a tad annoying because it's really only been background noise amidst an alien invasion and NAZIS, which leads to the latter, easily summed up as not a hard position to take.
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Apr 5, 2014 02:56
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First Bass posted:That much I know from reading said comics, but so far his cinematic appearances have been confined to a 40's pulp action adventure, a modern action mashup, and this. The only stances he's taken are anti-spy and anti-Nazi, the former of which was just a tad annoying because it's really only been background noise amidst an alien invasion and NAZIS, which leads to the latter, easily summed up as not a hard position to take. Except in this one NAZIS are made a part of such modern parts of the political establishment as drone strikes, making GBS threads on Mexicans and at least one US Senator. Ignore the NAZIS thing for a moment and think about what the villains are actually shown to be doing: they use data-mining to create a hit list 20 million names long, they tell a soldier that his "work has been instrumental to the shaping of this century" and has been "a gift to all mankind" seconds after literally slapping him around, they casually dispose of a sweet old maid, and they try to assassinate the living embodiment of the myths the Greatest Generation made about themselves with a drone. The villains aren't just NAZIS, they're stand-ins for literally almost the entire US political and intelligence community.
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Apr 5, 2014 03:12
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It's cool that they pulled an Iron Man 3 style fake-out with the trailer.
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Apr 5, 2014 03:14
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Dan Didio posted:It's cool that they pulled an Iron Man 3 style fake-out with the trailer. In what way?
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Apr 5, 2014 03:51
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Yawgmoft posted:In what way? Pierce's speech about The Winter Soldier's work having changed the world and defined the century. The trailer makes it seem like he's addressing Captain America.
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Apr 5, 2014 03:52
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Tripwyre posted:Jasper Sitwell is a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent who plays a minor role in the movie's plot. He's popped up a handful of times on AoS this season as a dickish superior officer trying to keep Coulson under control. That's about it. That's Victoria Hand (Lady Not-appearing-in-this-movie). Sitwell's a co-worker who's shown up a few times as a "watercooler chit-chat" level of friend. Other than knowing who he is (he's also been in some of the one-shot shorts) there's nothing critical from AoS for this movie. It goes the other way though, if you're watching AoS I'd suggest seeing this movie before next week.
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Apr 5, 2014 03:58
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"[/spoiler posted:HaitianDivorce" post="427888437"] I think that's a tautology  But really, see my first post. I realize the equivalence as the movie almost beats you over the head with it, but what is Captain America himself trying to say that the movie isn't saying for him? ( We didn't need him to realize that Redford's character was a crypto-fascist and ultimately a totalitarian despot .) What I drew up was the general "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." stance, which is easy for him to say, being loving Captain America. He's the greatest soldier ever produced by mankind. He could at least draw up a "Being Morally Uncompromising For Dummies" field guide. Fury, as the benevolent, competent autocrat basically carried the ethos of the film until he sort of rolled over at the end to Cap because ...?
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Apr 5, 2014 04:17
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Saw this movie yesterday, and I loved this one. Did anyone else notice that the scene with Fury in Rogers apartment was an updated version of this scene from All the President's Men:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAHlO8aHIp0 Not that it was a bad thing, it was just a moment of "hey, nice reference".
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Apr 5, 2014 04:36
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wins.
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I wonder if between this years X-Men and next years Avengers the public might get confused by two versions of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch. One mutant and the other... not mutant.
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Apr 5, 2014 04:49
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PassTheRemote posted:Saw this movie yesterday, and I loved this one. My favorite reference was Fury's tombstone naturally going back to one of Jackson's more famous character
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Apr 5, 2014 05:10
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First Bass posted:But really, see my first post. I realize the equivalence as the movie almost beats you over the head with it, but what is Captain America himself trying to say that the movie isn't saying for him? ( We didn't need him to realize that Redford's character was a crypto-fascist and ultimately a totalitarian despot .) What I drew up was the general "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." stance, which is easy for him to say, being loving Captain America. He's the greatest soldier ever produced by mankind. He could at least draw up a "Being Morally Uncompromising For Dummies" field guide. Fury, as the benevolent, competent autocrat basically carried the ethos of the film until he sort of rolled over at the end to Cap because ...? Fury's stance seems kind of confused--his monologue about his grandfather is about deterrence rather than unilateral action, but he either doesn't notice the difference between what his grandfather did and what he's doing or he's manipulating Cap and hoping he doesn't notice. Either way the film adds "don't trust people with their fingers over the button because eventually someone's going to come in with less than good intentions" and Fury seems to accept that because he lets SHIELD burn and walks away to be a super-spy on his own but you're right, the movie doesn't really have much in the way of an actual proactive solution (besides "crash a flying aircraft carrier into the NSA HQ" and oh god I'm on a watchlist somewhere now aren't I)
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Apr 5, 2014 05:12
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Let's be honest: if INSIGHT were actually a thing, most of SA would be red reticles on the helicarrier's firing solutions.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:23
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First Bass posted:Let's be honest: if INSIGHT were actually a thing, most of SA would be red reticles on the helicarrier's firing solutions. Nah, most of us are harmless. Talk a big game but don't back it up.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:38
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Bruceski posted:Nah, most of us are harmless. Talk a big game but don't back it up. If most of Project INSIGHT's targets were actually going to do any harm the thrust of the movie's theme would be completely undermined.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:40
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HaitianDivorce posted:If most of Project INSIGHT's targets were actually going to do any harm the thrust of the movie's theme would be completely undermined. Not necessarily. If nothing else, there was Cap's line, "I thought the punishment usually came after the crime." It seems orthogonal to the idea that predictive machine learning algorithms of the sort Zola invented are actually accurate. I appreciate that this is a movie that is so comic-booky that it has a double-nazi mad scientist who uploaded his brain to a supercomputer that runs on banks and banks of magnetic tape drives, delivering a monologue about his plot to take over the world, because he hates freedom, but I appreciate even more that it pulls that off without rendering its main point even one iota less relevant to reality. I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who picked up on the Metal Gear overtones.
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Apr 5, 2014 05:58
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Tripwyre posted:Jasper Sitwell is a S.H.I.E.L.D. agent who plays a minor role in the movie's plot. He's popped up a handful of times on AoS this season as a dickish superior officer trying to keep Coulson under control. That's about it. He was in a couple of the previous movies in the Avengers canon too, wasn't he? I know he was at least in a couple of those one-shot short films on the DVDs. I never recognized him until I saw him in The Americans playing basically the same character in the 1980s FBI though. PassTheRemote posted:Saw this movie yesterday, and I loved this one. I liked the reference on his tombstone better. Bongo Bill posted:Not necessarily. If nothing else, there was Cap's line, "I thought the punishment usually came after the crime." It seems orthogonal to the idea that predictive machine learning algorithms of the sort Zola invented are actually accurate. Why was the president of the United States one of the targets then? Their definition of "harmful" was "anyone that might be opposed to Hydra." raditts fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Apr 5, 2014 |
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Apr 5, 2014 06:03
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Bongo Bill posted:Not necessarily. If nothing else, there was Cap's line, "I thought the punishment usually came after the crime." It seems orthogonal to the idea that predictive machine learning algorithms of the sort Zola invented are actually accurate. Mmm. I'd say considering that that double-Nazi's (that is best appellation ever) algorithm also targets folks like Tony Stark and Bruce Banner it's not actually directing the targets to hit people who would be threats to America and the free world so much as threats to HYDRA and the world it wants to make. Oh and while we're going over awesome film references I liked that the editing about the final activation of Project INSIGHT mirrored Grand Moff Tarkin preparing to fire the Death Star in Star Wars: "Fire when ready... 3... 2... 1..." interspersed with shots of the hero battling it out with his nemesis with whom he shares a deep and compassionate connection.
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Apr 5, 2014 06:14
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HaitianDivorce posted:Mmm. I'd say considering that that double-Nazi's (that is best appellation ever) algorithm also targets folks like Tony Stark and Bruce Banner it's not actually directing the targets to hit people who would be threats to America and the free world so much as threats to HYDRA and the world it wants to make. This is true. I think there was some confusion. The point is the people INSIGHT targets really are future threats to HYDRA's order.
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Apr 5, 2014 06:19
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Bongo Bill posted:Not necessarily. If nothing else, there was Cap's line, "I thought the punishment usually came after the crime." It seems orthogonal to the idea that predictive machine learning algorithms of the sort Zola invented are actually accurate. Nah dude, you're both sort of right: there were definite nascent threats to a HYDRA world order, like the Avengers, individuals of comparable power (Doctor Strange I guess, I bet Doc Hammer is freaking out), opposition parties (the POTUS, non-Nazi senators), and people with ideological leanings incompatible with a police state. Some of those groups would definitely not have bought what HYDRA was selling, but the truly terrifying part of the algorithms was that it was targeting school children who tested well on the off chance that they would become political dissidents. Thoughtcrime is one thing; this was some post-Orwellian poo poo, where you're guilty simply by virtue of being born. The algorithm could be perfectly accurate, because this is comic book land and S.H.I.E.L.D. made a Nazi supercomputer, but it doesn't have to be.
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Apr 5, 2014 06:23
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I just got back from seeing this; definitely dragged a bit in parts, but overall good. I'm glad that there were actually some consequences by the end of the film, instead of seeing the same Marvel status-quo that usually happens here. Fun fact: Right at the explosion that blows up the computers in that early tanker scene in the film, the center speaker blew out in the theatre. I thought the quip exchange right after the explosion was deliberately muffled to simulate tinnitus, but the dialogue stayed muffled even through his first scene with Fury (meaning I missed all of that dialogue). It got restored soon after, but I actually started to wish it was an intentional move by the filmmakers, and that Cap was just going to be hard of hearing for the rest of the film. Also, there was a lady in the row behind me who cried (like sobbed) at every single dramatic thing that happened - when Fury died, when Bucky was remembering Cap while fighting, etc. I feel like the people who do that maybe don't watch a lot of real dramas. Hewlett fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Apr 5, 2014 |
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Apr 5, 2014 06:49
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Bruceski posted:Nah, most of us are harmless. Talk a big game but don't back it up. You forget that this is a Marvel universe. One day a Kree chemical container might fall from the sky and suddenly Supermechagodzilla is an actual supermechagodzilla.
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Apr 5, 2014 07:03
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LEGO Genetics posted:I wonder if between this years X-Men and next years Avengers the public might get confused by two versions of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch. One mutant and the other... not mutant. I'm legitimately worried about this one. I still hear people unironically say "man, maybe Spider-Man or Wolverine will cameo in Avengers 2!" So I don't know how the general movie going population, who doesn't keep track of which studio owns which rights, will react to the same characters being in two different franchises, being played by different actors, and having different origins. I think it can go one of two ways, either people start confusing the X-Men versions with the Avengers versions, or they'll be sufficiently different that people won't get them confused, they'll just wonder why the names are the same.
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Apr 5, 2014 07:04
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I really want to see the scene where the Helicarriers are targetting people again. There have got to be a lot of names shown there in a split second.
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Apr 5, 2014 07:14
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jivjov posted:I'm legitimately worried about this one. I still hear people unironically say "man, maybe Spider-Man or Wolverine will cameo in Avengers 2!" So I don't know how the general movie going population, who doesn't keep track of which studio owns which rights, will react to the same characters being in two different franchises, being played by different actors, and having different origins. I think it can go one of two ways, either people start confusing the X-Men versions with the Avengers versions, or they'll be sufficiently different that people won't get them confused, they'll just wonder why the names are the same. The way I hear it First Class has so many mutants no one'll get a good look at Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch for very long, especially since Fox only announced them after Whedon let it slip they would be in Avengers 2. I also don't think they're very big in the public consciousness like Spider-Man or Wolverine, so worst case scenario is folks'll think Avengers 2 rips off FC if they happen to remember those two minor characters that showed up in a scene or two in a different movie with different actors nine months ago. I'm not worried.
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Apr 5, 2014 07:17
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jivjov posted:I'm legitimately worried about this one. I still hear people unironically say "man, maybe Spider-Man or Wolverine will cameo in Avengers 2!" So I don't know how the general movie going population, who doesn't keep track of which studio owns which rights, will react to the same characters being in two different franchises, being played by different actors, and having different origins. I think it can go one of two ways, either people start confusing the X-Men versions with the Avengers versions, or they'll be sufficiently different that people won't get them confused, they'll just wonder why the names are the same. Although I am convinced that Dennis Leary signed on to be in the reboot to intentionally gently caress with people. He's made a lot of jokes about how frequently he's mistaken for Willem Dafoe, including having people yell, "I loved you in the first Spider-Man movie!" at him on the street. So he decided to be in the, uh, *next* first Spider-Man movie. My hope is that the two interpretations of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch will be distinct enough in each franchise.
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Apr 5, 2014 07:38
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Seeing as I totally missed the Crossbones reference, is the Nurse/Agent supposed to be someone special from the comics? I know hardly anything when it comes to Cap history.
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Apr 5, 2014 08:38
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Avynte posted:Seeing as I totally missed the Crossbones reference, is the Nurse/Agent supposed to be someone special from the comics? I know hardly anything when it comes to Cap history. They are Caps occasional girlfriend and Peggy's niece. For some reason they said her name was Sharon but not her full name of Sharon Carter.
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Apr 5, 2014 08:50
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I saw this today as extra credit for a pop culture class I am taking, and wow I thought this was just awful. Not only do they have one of the most convoluted stories to date, they mix it up by making one of the most bland, drab and just straight up dull movies to look at. That aside though what was the point of this film? Was it to explore the relationship of Bucky and Steve? Nope Bucky just blows things up for a while. Was it to introduce Falcon as a viable and realized character? Not really because boy did he feel shoehorned in. Was it to explore Black Widow as a character? Again she just kind of fought people for a little bit. I really don't think any character had any kind of real development other than Nick Fury somewhat I guess? I feel like this movie just wanted to show you fight scenes for two hours, just that they forgot to make any of these set pieces interesting. I truthfully can't tell you any interesting sets or set pieces in this film. Does no one believe in art direction anymore? Are office buildings and grey ships really all that interesting? Also the politics in this movie were really weird. Like Black Widows speech was just her saying yeah we cause all the problems in the world but we are also the only ones who can stop them. What in the gently caress does that mean? Also does it bother anyone else how loving violent this movie was? They straight up killed like 30 dudes in the first 30 minutes or so, and then killed a ton more people for the rest of the movie. At least there was no blood when they were straight up murdering people though.You know,for the kids.I really felt this was just an all around ugly film.
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Apr 5, 2014 09:03
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Dan Didio posted:It's cool that they pulled an Iron Man 3 style fake-out with the trailer. Copied the Star Trek 2 fake with helicarrier crash too. The_Rob posted:Also does it bother anyone else how loving violent this movie was? They straight up killed like 30 dudes in the first 30 minutes or so, and then killed a ton more people for the rest of the movie. At least there was no blood when they were straight up murdering people though.You know,for the kids.I really felt this was just an all around ugly film. Yeah this. I mostly liked the movie but I was super uncomfortable with how nasty it gets. The whole movie was bad with it but the airstrip getting torn apart by Kai Lang had to be the worst. Also the end credits bit was a disappointment after Thor 2's insane Benecio Del Toro as Ziggy Stardust scene.
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Apr 5, 2014 09:29
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Waterhaul posted:They are Caps occasional girlfriend and Peggy's niece. For some reason they said her name was Sharon but not her full name of Sharon Carter. Ah, well that seems pretty important to know for the future films, thanks!
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Apr 5, 2014 10:01
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Slaapaav posted:My ranking so far : Am I the only one that thinks Iron Man 2 is bar none, absolutely the bottom of the bunch? I thought that was near universal opinion. It felt like an extended Avengers trailer with a completely incoherent plot.
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Apr 5, 2014 11:30
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